Gormenghast - Chapters 1-10

[Jonathan , Master of Ritual]

I've decided to break the discussion up into 8 groupings of 10 chapters. Feel free to discuss whatever happens in relation to those chapters there.

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

I think the opening chapters of this volume are distinctly familiar, compared with Titus Groan (there is something epic and ritualistic about the opening lists of the quick and the dead), but also something very new: there is a lot more humour in this one, mostly emanating from Irma and the professors, and we have first glimpses of that from the off.

[Jonathan , Master of Ritual]

I definitely agree about the humour which stems from Irma and her brother. Particularly regarding the story about the knife.

I did find the beginning of this novel fascinating and poingnant. The idea of being suckled on shadows is brilliantly Gothic (Kafkaesque and Dickensesque at the same time) as is the introduction of the ghostly individuals.

For those mentioning the absence of religion in Peake's world it is worth noting the veiled references to 'spirituality'. Then again even the featuring of ghosts and ritual forms a kind of religion in Peake's world. He may not reference God or divinity per se, but by hinting at the spiritual symbol and aspects of humanity he reveals that men and women do have a religious side to them. It's simply that for most of Peake's characters this religious side is met through ritual and through following the rules of Gormenghast. At least, that is my take.

Peake seems to hint at the shadowy nature of what makes a man a man in this novel to a degree to, from what we read in these opening chapters. I'm not quite sure what to make of that but it is fascinating. Is that a hint at the darker side - the hamartia, the sin - of an individual or merely a look at how the past, our ghosts, define us?

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

Jonathan wrote: "I definitely agree about the humour which stems from Irma and her brother..."

And a lot more concerning the school, profs and pupils and assorted mischief.

Regarding religion, or the absence of, I agree that Gormenghast and its many rituals take the place of it to some extent. And it's not just the odd mention of ghosts (albeit not in a literal, white-sheet apparition sense): there are also occasional mentions of superstitions.

As for your final paragraph, shadows are integral to the books: so man of the most extraordinary images relate to shadows and light.

[Kyle, Steerpike]

Jonathan wrote: "I definitely agree about the humour which stems from Irma and her brother. Particularly regarding the story about the knife.

I did find the beginning of this novel fascinating and poingnant. The i..."

Good stuff Jonathan! I really like what you say about what makes a man a man (or woman a woman). To me, this seems to be Peake's greatest objective in what he does. Peel back the layers of culture on all of us, pry up our shared and learned behavior (like ritual) and what lies beneath? A primal animal? Am emotional romantic? etc:

It seems like in Gormenghast Peake is able to dive a little deeper into those questions, since he's working with a lot of things he already set up with Titus Groan. Ghosts and ancestors. Isaac Newton said we are all standing on the shoulders of the giants that came before us; does that mean we can't stand alone, or are we forever bound to the model of the previous generation?

[Jonathan , Master of Ritual]

Yes, a lot of readers state as criticism that Peake doesn't appear to be doing anything monumental or anything of worth following as a reader. However, it seems his idea is to create a character and follow him and through that character observes what it is that defines a man or woman. What defines a person. Is it the shadows suckled on at birth or before birth? Is it the 'ghosts' of our past? Or is it the interactions with others that shape us as well as the DNA and genetics of who we are.

Moreover, I think Peake describes, more than any author I've read, the ways in which simple little things become glamorous or hold power over a man. The little rituals of daily life are something he focuses on (which is where the humour or intelligence of the writing stems from in these early chapters). There is a kind of love of language in Peake similar to that of F.Scott Fitzgerald - though they do different things and Peake is clearly a more unique author.

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

Jonathan wrote: "...Peake describes, more than any author I've read, the ways in which simple little things become glamorous or hold power over a man. The little rituals of daily life are something he focuses on..."

That's a very good way to put it. Also, Fuchsia has her treasures in her attic, but they have a more positive hold on her.

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

Jonathan wrote: "...For those mentioning the absence of religion in Peake's world ..."

Curiously, the headmaster has "a Zodiac gown of high office", though I don't recall any other mentions of star signs and astrology. (It's actually mentioned in chapter 18, but I don't think it's a spoiler to mention it in this discussion.)

[Jonathan , Master of Ritual]

Cecily wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "...For those mentioning the absence of religion in Peake's world ..."

Curiously, the headmaster has "a Zodiac gown of high office", though I don't recall any other mentions of sta..."

No I don't think so, seeing as we tackled the concept of religion. It's rather hard for any work to be truly non-religious in some degree I think. Religion tends to link up very closely with defining a belief structure and that tends to shine through in works.

I'm uncertain about Peake's own beliefs or religious leanings. I'm aware he was born to missionaries and it seems he had either more atheistic or agnostic leanings if I'm correct? Either way, I would say that it seems to me that Peake's work subtly criticises the ways in which people can mindlessly end up getting caught up in 'religious routines' which is shown by how people in the castle of Gormenghast end up caught by certain things.

Entrapment, I feel, is a key part of what Peake is writing all about. Whether it is moral/religious entrapment or more physical entrapment is to be discussed. There are the twins who we note are trapped by Steerpike for instance. Steerpike himself is trapped on a more 'spiritual' level (interesting that Peake notes the whole spiritual side to mankind at several points) in which he desires to continue his rapid rise up the heirarchical ladder - at this point I'm unsure whether Fuschia is simply a means to an end for him or something more romantic (we will see, Peake does love to leave plenty subtle and open-ended). Fuschia is trapped by her own depressive views, Titus is trapped more by the weight of responsibility left by his father's demise, his mother is trapped by the loss of her husband and all of Gormenghast itself serves as a major vehicle of prison-dom. One can easily see the Dickensian influence on such a unique masterpiece...

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

Jonathan wrote: "...I'm uncertain about Peake's own beliefs or religious leanings. I'm aware he was born to missionaries..."

His parents weren't missionaries in the more usual sense of preachers trying to win converts: they were a doctor and a nurse who worked at a missionary hospital. Peake himself was non-religious, although his wife was a Catholic and their children were raised as Catholics and went to Catholic schools.

I keep meaning to read Mr Pye, though I've always been put off by the cover of my copy, which has a winged Derek Jacobi on the cover. However, looking at the Wikipedia plot summary, it would be pertinent to this discussion:

Mr. Pye travels to the Channel Island of Sark to awaken a love of God in all the islanders. His landlady on the island, Miss Dredger, quickly becomes a devout follower of his teachings. and even agrees to allow the person she hates the most, Miss George, to stay in her house. As Pye does good works he gradually feels a stinging feeling on his back. On further investigation he discovers that he has started to grow angel's wings, and after consulting with a Harley Street doctor, he concludes the best thing to do is to stop doing good deeds, and instead does bad deeds.

He engages in some deliberately malicious acts, and after a time this results in him growing horns on his forehead. He is unable to decide what to do, but eventually decides to reveal his horned condition to the islanders, who chase him to the edge of a cliff, which Pye flies off using his wings.

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

Jonathan wrote: "...Entrapment, I feel, is a key part of what Peake is writing all about..."

Very much so. One could also add Irma Prune, Bellgrove and... almost all the other characters to your list.

Jonathan wrote: "...One can easily see the Dickensian influence on such a unique masterpiece."

Indeed, although curiously, there are arguably more overt Dickensian aspects in Titus Alone (view spoiler)[(those living Under River) (hide spoiler)], even though the setting is more modern.

[Metaphorosis]

I found the first few chapters here to be intensely disappointing, in a way that colored my entire view of the book. I appreciated Peake's straightforward and humorous rundown of the dead and living characters, but the blunt attribution of symbols and meaning took a lot of the enjoyable mystery away. One can argue about whether it's 'right' to have a different view of the symbolism than the author, but in any case, I enjoyed the speculation, even when it was not conscious.

Toward the end of this section, Peake is toning it down, but even in chapter 9 - where Titus finds the set of coloured banisters, - he has the boy say bluntly "This is mine."

I'm intrigued that this hasn't seemed to bother anyone else. In Titus Groan, Peake proves himself a master of images, hints, and shadows. Here, he says 'See that dog on the wall? It's really just the shape cast by the light behind my two hand. Here's what it means.'

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

B. wrote: "...One can argue about whether it's 'right' to have a different view of the symbolism than the author..."

I think that's fine. After all, in many cases, we can't be certain of the author's intent with symbols.

B. wrote: "... In Titus Groan, Peake proves himself a master of images, hints, and shadows. Here, he says 'See that dog on the wall? ..."

I hadn't really noticed, and there is plenty of subtler imagery in this book as well as the blunter stuff. I will have to be more observant.

[Sumant]

I liked the first few chapters where we see what Steerpike is upto.Also the professors are a bit weird but who is not in this book.

The entrapment point mentioned above really is a solid point.

[Cecily, Gormenghast Librarian]

There is more outright comedy in this book than the others, mainly, but not exclusively, involving the professors. It's a good counterpoint to the darkening themes elsewhere.