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Don Quixote
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Don Quixote-unabridged schedule in message 28
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Oh, thank goodness, Sheila!! My ebook says there are 1488 pages to this book. I've kind of been dreading more and more of these "adventures". Not that they are hard to read, dull or not entertaining but its getting old. Not all of my footnotes seem to work, sadly.Irene, that's a good point and one I wasn't thinking of (this book being one of the first novels & why this is considered a classic). I was thinking along the lines of us readers and why we keep reading it over the years.
This all makes it sound like I'm not enjoying the book and I am. It's just a surprise to me that so much is being repeated and no growth seems to be occurring. There's still time, though, and growth may still happen. :D
I am already on Chapter 33, and I too find it difficult to keep the stories apart or in a chronological order. But now I rechecked, I can discuss... If anybody still wants to. (view spoiler)
Chapter XX:Just before he awakens Sancho Panza on the day of the wedding, Don Quixote makes an interesting speech. In it, he carries the weight of his family, his legacy, Sancho's family & future, etc. on his shoulders. He sees himself responsible for everyone under his care.
This is the first time I've seen Don Quixote as a sane man with a plan, a purpose, an agenda of something beyond himself and his fantasies. He's not really crazy; he's just somehow following a different drummer? Or am I crazy? :D
Nathalia, I'm not sure what to think of that section. As in all of the stories in DQ, they are rather weird and almost slap-stick in nature.The Bachelor scene was fun. It also may have been the only way for people (friends?) of DQ's to keep him safe, under the definition of what they thought as "safe".
Earlier on, when the Bachelor had visited the barber and the priest, I thought something devious had been planned but more along the lines of allowing DQ to go out adventuring and hoping that something would happen to him in order to get rid of the "problem" he was to his community and family.
Turns out, the plan was to keep him at home but in a defeated and depressed manner; something so bad that he wouldn't go adventuring again. Safe but defeated and disillusioned.
Don Quixote, though, was victorious in this encounter. He remains steadfast, strong and true to his purpose. (by "strong" I mean "conviction"; as a human being, he's becoming increasing thin and quite possibly weak. There's much more mention of his thinness in these last few chapters)
So, he may not be "safe" by the definition of his friends & family but he's living true to his calling and convictions as he sees them. Could any of us live better lives than remaining true to our convictions?
The problem may be that we stay true to our convictions within the confines of our society. We may be "odd" and "strange" but we aren't going around attacking people for saying things outside of our convictions. DQ is. He's staying true to his convictions and not allowing society to be at peace.
I am up to chapter XXV. The more time I am withDQ, the more time I think he is deluded with false notions of his own importance and significance. He is a common country guy who believes that he is the greatest knight that has ever lived. When he talks about the weight of family reputation being on his sholders or the responsibility for his servant SP, he is giving more credit to his position than society ever would. I stumbled on something the other day that said that DQ is rather elusive, reflecting back the reader rather than a rigid character in his own right. So, I suppose that if I see a deluded pathetic man, it may say more about my nose to the grind stone practicality, my inability to dream in the stars than it does about what or who DQ is in black and white.
Irene wrote: "I stumbled on something the other day that said that DQ is rather elusive, reflecting back the reader rather than a rigid character in his own right. So, I suppose that if I see a deluded pathetic man, it may say more about my nose to the grind stone practicality, my inability to dream in the stars than it does about what or who DQ is in black and white. .."
Nice find, Irene!
If this is true, Cervantes was rather brilliant. Not only is he writing the first "real" novel but one where the main character reflects the reader.
Maybe that's why I'm flipping back and forth about Don Quixote, the man. I'm a bit of a nose to the grindstone person when things must get done or when planning towards a future or goal but I can be dreamy & believe in the possibility of alternative "dimensions" at times, too, when these don't interfere with a goal or deadline.
That does make one wonder. I think Don Quixote is crazy, but I don't think that is a bad thing. I love his ideas just not the execution. What does that say about me? Also, the episode with the puppets just clearly showed he cannot keep reality and fiction apart. And that is most certainly a sign of being nuts to me. On the other hand, I know plenty of people today who cannot keep reality and fiction apart and do not wish to either.
One of my friends went to some Medieval Fair, where people show up in costumes (and I mean the visitors, not just the shopkeepers), and over half of the costumes were from Lord of the Rings etc. Because fictional medieval times were by far cooler than real medieval times. Don Quixote thinks so too, apparantly.
Nathalia, I agree with you. That puppet play incident was one of those many moments in this book when DQ is clearly out of touch with reality, in my opinion. The fact that he can appear lucid at times, does not negate a diagnosis of psychosis. People with psychosis can appear lucid at times. Even when he realized that he had destroyed the puppets and was willing to pay damages, he could not distinguish that the princess puppet had not escaped to another country. SP is beginning to annoy me. At times, I find him to be comic relief. He is the voice of sanity and his comments can be rather sarcastic. But, he is enabling DQ. SP knows that DQ is crazy. He could get them both killed. He could allow DQ to kill someone else in one of his attacks to right some fictional wrong. But, he continues to go along with it. I realize that the concept of "enabling" does not have a name at this time. But, he has to logically understand that DQ needs him to carry out these escapads. And,crazy was named at this time. People understood that delusions could get people killed and often locked up those who were determined to be insane. Maybe I have less sympathy with DQ because I do not even like his delusion. A world in which individuals take it upon themselves to right what they perceive as wrong is too close to a vigilanty society for my comfort.
Mod
I am starting to wonder if he will end the book insane, or if there is going to be some change in his sanity. Where is this going?
Where have you read upto?
Anyone still here? I'm still on schedule with the reading but haven't had anything interesting to add to the discussion here. The antics are on-going.
I do not like the Duke & Dutchess and keep looking for Don Quixote and Sancho to see through them.
Don Quixote says something very interesting at the end of Chapter XLI. Let me know when/if you're at this point and I'll elaborate.
Next week is American Thanksgiving, right? Our schedule has a break next week and I believe Sandi thought it best to take a break in the schedule then. We had our Thanksgiving last month, so I may just continue reading.
Only 3 reading weeks left and we'll be finished this book. Something has to happen to tie all these antics together, don't you think?
Mod
And yes, it looks like we have a week break, which I think Sandi scheduled in for the US holiday of Thanksgiving. (Hope everyone in the USA has a nice holiday!)
And yes, only 3 weeks to go after that! I am looking forward to finishing this, and seeing if there is some kind of wrap up to their adventures.
I'm still here - I keep falling behind and catching up. I read this years ago, but I'm surprised at how much I've forgotten the details!
I am still ahead, at Chapter 55. I do not like the Duke and Duchess either. Spoiler upto XLI. (view spoiler)
I am not sure whether these are still the same old adventures, since I find them saying and showing pretty wise things about the ruling classes and about governments themselves. I find it more interesting lately than in the first book.
I went ahead and finished it. Reading it in shorter sections was making it feel as if it were dragging and I needed to bring it to a close. I definitely enjoyed the second part much better than the first. There are none of those long unrelated stories. I think the humorous social commentary is terrific and still relevant.
I agree with you, Irene. The second part is much better. I'm at Chapter LII and am quite enjoying the story. Sancho's experience is disheartening. I really do not like the Duke & Duchess.
Mod
I think I am going to plow ahead and try to finish this one. I really want to see how it is going to end!
Where is everyone else at?
Sheila, I'm still here and am plowing ahead to finish it, too. I've got about 8 chapters left and will finish it this weekend. I'm enjoying it more as it goes along. This book is just plain weird: part 1 is slap-stick & brutal, part 2 is slap-stick with wisdom and as the story progresses it is still a lot of slap-stick.
All in all, too much slap-stick for me. It's less of a novel than it is a series of vignettes with passages of riding through Spain in between. Interesting and enjoyable but not a "great" novel (in my eyes, anyway).
I'm growing quite fond of Sancho and Don Quixote.
I think there are things to discuss when we get to the end of the novel. At least, things to mention. There are some interesting things said in this book.
I finished it yesterday, and was quite sad to leave DQ and SP. And yes, I truly despise the tricks the duke and duchess play on SP. I believe they think they can play any joke on him, because he is a peasant.What I found most interesting in this novel is the way people had much of the same ideas about governments, country living, escapes from modern life etc. Think of the many shepherds, who used to live in cities, but try to find solace in nature.
I finished the book tonight. I'm not sure what Cervantes wants to tell us with this story.Nathalia, I agree. In many ways, this story has modern ideas and thoughts in it. People & perhaps society hasn't changed much, in terms of thoughts & ideas.
You know, for a book that was in itself rather uniform, it has really grown on me. And now, days later I started thinking about situations and quoting from it. In my translation DQ frequently calls SP a "booby" so I researched where that word came from. Not successful yet.
Also, I started reading up on moriscoes (sp?) and their role in history, which is very interesting. (view spoiler)
I really enjoyed the sections with SP governing. It was like a series of riddles. He is extremely wise, in a common sense sort of way, in those situations, while being so easily led by the nose by DQ's insanity in the rest of the book. Odd contrast. Too bad he did not exercise such wisdom with DQ. But, is the author indicating that a person acts out of social position? When a squire, SP is a natural follower. When a governer, SP is a wise judge and leader. And, yet, he is so easily conned by the pretend doctor and the others telling him how a governor is supposed to act and eat. Why can he figure out the con in the disputes before the judge's bench but be so blind to the con perpetrated against him?
Irene wrote: "Why can he figure out the con in the disputes before the judge's bench but be so blind to the con perpetrated against him? ..."
I don't know what Cervantes may have had in mind. For me, it was a matter of being able to see the "faults" in others, while not seeing the "faults" within ourselves. We're too close to ourselves to see things (sometimes). So Sancho could see the solution of problems affecting others but not see the solution of problems affecting himself.
?? .....can't say I'm completely convinced of this.
Mod
Yay, Sheila! Congrats on finishing.
Alright, now that everyone has read it, can we please, please discuss, why Cervantes had DQ lose all his illusions and deny the books before he died?This has been bugging me since I finished. Why not let him die like a true knight, honour and all? Even his friends and family wanted it to be that way, rather than have him die, or at least let him die happily. I am not happy with this ending at all.
Well, throughout the entire novel, he seems to be poking fun at the idea of being a knight, of using those romantic legends as some ideal to aspire to. So, I figured, that by having DQ finally come to his senses at the end, the final thread is pulled out of this silliness and the reader is forced to give up any illusions that might still remain.
Mod
I say "free for all" and lets talk about anything you want regarding this book.
Nathalia, I am not sure why Cervantes ended this the way he did, other than to show that DQ had been crazy, and none of it was reality.
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Books mentioned in this topic
And the Mountains Echoed (other topics)Don Quixote (other topics)
Petra, are you reading an ebook or kindle version? In my hardcover copy, chapter 20 starts on page 582 out of 940 total pages, so on my book (which has footnotes included on many pages thoughout the book) we are about 62% done. If your footnotes are all included in multiple pages at the back of your book you might be further along than you think. :-)