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Don Quixote
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Archive 08-19 GR Discussions > Don Quixote-unabridged schedule in message 28

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message 1: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Hi all - This is my first time as a coordinator for a group read. We agreed to start on September 1st, but given the holiday I propose that we start on Tuesday, September 3rd. I'll propose a reading schedule later this evening. Sheila promised to help me open the group, but I am also open to a co- lead if anyone feels so inclined.


message 2: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
A September 3rd start date sounds great, Sandi. Gives everyone a chance to get through the holiday.

So who is in on this read? And what version of the book did you get? I know there are a bunch of editions of Don Quixote, so feel free to get which ever suits your fancy. If you would like to read an abridged version for ease of keeping up, you are welcome to do that too. :-)

I ended up with a newer edition, translated by Edith Grossman, with 940 pages.


message 3: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Here is a proposed schedule. I tried to keep it below 100 pages per week. The proposed schedule is divided by chapters, since we are all likely to have different book versions. The chapters in my book are Roman numerals, so I use those below. Does anyone want me to convert to our modern day numbering system? I propose skipping the week of Thanksgiving to give us all time to catch up and because we are likely to be busy that week. That means we will end before the Christmas holiday.

Let me know your thoughts on this schedule.

Chapters read. Discussion begins

Preface - III. Sept. 3rd
IV - X. Sept. 10
XI - XIII. Sept. 17
XI - XVII. Sept. 24
XVIII - XIII. Oct. 1
XX IV - XXXII. Oct. 8
XXXIII - XL. Oct. 15
XLI - XLVIII. Oct. 22
XLIX - LV. Oct. 29
LVI - LXII. Nov. 5
LVIII - LXXI. Nov. 12
LXXII - LXXIX. Nov 19
LXXX - LXXXVII. Dec. 3
LXXXVIII - XCIII. Dec. 10
XCIV - end. Dec. 17


message 4: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Sorry for the long post, but I wished I read this before I got my version of the book. Below is the Wiki review of the English translations in case you didn't get a book yet. You can also google the topic fo many different opinions on the best translation.

My version is translated by Motteux. Great question Sheila.

English editions in translation[edit source | editbeta]


Don Quixote goes mad from his reading of books of chivalry. Engraving by Gustave Doré.
There are many translations of the book, and it has been adapted many times in shortened versions. Many derivative editions were also written at the time, as was the custom of envious or unscrupulous writers. Seven years after the Parte Primera appeared, Don Quixote had been translated into French, German, Italian, and English, with the first French translation of 'Part II' appearing in 1618, and the first English translation in 1620. One abridged adaptation, authored by Agustín Sánchez, runs slightly over 150 pages, cutting away about 750 pages.[27]
Thomas Shelton's English translation of the First Part appeared in 1612. Shelton is a somewhat elusive figure: some claim Shelton was actually a friend of Cervantes, although there is no credible evidence to support this claim. Although Shelton's version is cherished by some, according to John Ormsby and Samuel Putnam, it was far from satisfactory as a carrying over of Cervantes's text.[23] Shelton's translation of the novel's Second Part appeared in 1620.
Near the end of the 17th century, John Phillips, a nephew of poet John Milton, published what Putnam considered the worst English translation. The translation, as literary critics claim, was not based on Cervantes' text but mostly upon a French work by Filleau de Saint-Martin and upon notes which Thomas Shelton had written.
Around 1700, a version by Pierre Antoine Motteux appeared. Motteux's translation enjoyed lasting popularity; it was reprinted as the Modern Library Series edition of the novel until recent times.[28] Nonetheless, future translators would find much to fault in Motteux's version: Samuel Putnam criticized "the prevailing slapstick quality of this work, especially where Sancho Panza is involved, the obtrusion of the obscene where it is found in the original, and the slurring of difficulties through omissions or expanding upon the text". John Ormsby considered Motteux's version "worse than worthless", and denounced its "infusion of Cockney flippancy and facetiousness" into the original.[29]
A translation by Captain John Stevens, which revised Thomas Shelton's version, also appeared in 1700, but its publication was overshadowed by the simultaneous release of Motteux's translation.[28]
In 1742, the Charles Jervas translation appeared, posthumously. Through a printer's error, it came to be known, and is still known, as "the Jarvis translation". It was the most scholarly and accurate English translation of the novel up to that time, but future translator John Ormsby points out in his own introduction to the novel that the Jarvis translation has been criticized as being too stiff. Nevertheless, it became the most frequently reprinted translation of the novel until about 1885. Another 18th century translation into English was that of Tobias Smollett, himself a novelist. Like the Jarvis translation, it continues to be reprinted today.
Most modern translators take as their model the 1885 translation by John Ormsby. It is said[by whom?] that his translation was the most honest of all translations, without expansions upon the text or changing of the proverbs.
In 1922, Arvid Paulson and Clayton Edwards published an expurgated children's version under the title The Story of Don Quixote, which has recently been published on Project Gutenberg. It leaves out the risqué sections as well as chapters that young readers might consider dull, and embellishes a great deal on Cervantes's original text. The title page actually gives credit to the two editors as if they were the authors, and omits any mention of Cervantes.[30]
The most widely read English-language translations of the mid-20th century are by Samuel Putnam (1949), J. M. Cohen (1950; Penguin Classics), and Walter Starkie (1957). The last English translation of the novel in the 20th century was by Burton Raffel, published in 1996. The 21st century has already seen four new translations of the novel into English. The first is by John D. Rutherford and the second by Edith Grossman. Reviewing the novel in the New York Times, Carlos Fuentes called Grossman's translation a "major literary achievement"[31] and another called it the "most transparent and least impeded among more than a dozen English translations going back to the 17th century."[32] In 2005, the year of the novel's 400th anniversary, Tom Lathrop published a new English translation of the novel, based on a lifetime of specialized study of the novel and its history.[33] The fourth translation of the 21st century was released in 2006 by former Spanish professor James Montgomery, 26 years after he had begun it, in an attempt to "recreate the sense of the original as closely as possible, though not at the expense of Cervantes' literary style."[34]


message 5: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Hmm...

This doesn't match my book.

Preface - III. Sept. 3rd
IV - X. Sept. 10
XI - XIII. Sept. 17
XI - XVII. Sept. 24
XVIII - XIII. Oct. 1
XX IV - XXXII. Oct. 8
XXXIII - XL. Oct. 15
XLI - XLVIII. Oct. 22
XLIX - LV. Oct. 29
LVI - LXII. Nov. 5
LVIII - LXXI. Nov. 12
LXXII - LXXIX. Nov 19
LXXX - LXXXVII. Dec. 3
LXXXVIII - XCIII. Dec. 10
XCIV - end. Dec. 17


You show XCIV (94) total chapters, correct?

My book is divided into two parts.

The first part, titled "The First Part of the Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha" is divided into LII (52) chapters.

The second part, titled "Second Part of the Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha" is divided into LXXIV (74) chapters.

So I have a grand total of 126 chapters in my version.

Do you have titles for your chapters? My chapters all have titles to them, so maybe we can match that way.


Petra My copy also has 126 chapters, in the same layout as Sheila's book.


message 7: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
As a side note, I also have another copy of this book, which is the free Amazon kindle copy, translated by John Ormsby, and it ONLY contains the 52 chapters (LII) of part one (or volume one) of this book.

The chapter titles in the kindle version pretty much match the chapters in my hardcover version, though as I said, only the first volume of the book is included in the free kindle version.


message 8: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Ok, how about if we start with the prologue through the chapter "which recounts the amusing manner in which Don Quixote was dubbed a knight" on Sept 3rd. I'll repost a proposed full schedule with titles before then. My titles chapter titles are long - the phrase above is a chapter title. Are your titles the same?


message 9: by Petra (last edited Aug 23, 2013 06:27PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Petra That's the title of my 3rd chapter, Sandi.

Would you like some help with adding titles to your schedule? I'd be happy to, if you'd like. I'm working tomorrow morning but could do it after that and message you the info.


message 10: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Interesting that my book is neither 54 or 126. No idea what to make of that, but I am going to get a hard copy of the Gross translation. Since I am coordinating probably best to be on the same page literally and figuratively.


message 11: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Petra, I am more than happy to have the help. I won't be able to get to typing the chapter names until Sunday. I also want to double check the page count on a different version. My version seems to have more pages than yours and Sheila's but fewer chapters. Good idea to go by the names. If you do get started on breaking out the chapters, I was trying for 70 to 100 pages per week.

It takes a village... Thanks for the help!


Petra Okay, I'll start tomorrow and message you by Sunday with the results and/or any problems.


message 13: by Sandi (new)

Sandi | 53 comments Is anyone else planning to join our discussion? I got started reading the book and it really seems like it will be enjoyable. If you like smart satire and irony , this should be a good book. It is less intimidating than I thought.


message 14: by Jennifer W (new)

Jennifer W | 2175 comments I might join in. I'm probably going to be at the slower end of the readers, but don't let that stop you. I've picked up the Penguin version from the library Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra . Mine has Part 1 which goes to chapter LII and part 2 which starts over at chapter 1 and goes to chapter LXXIV.


Irene | 3973 comments I plan on joining the discussion, but do not have my book yet.


message 16: by Amy (new) - added it

Amy Neftzger (neftzger) | 240 comments I read this in high school but would love to read it again. I have a lot going on until the end of the year, but I'll get a copy and see if I can follow along - I love these longer group reads.


message 17: by Marcia (new)

Marcia (marcygold) I will be joining this group read. I haven't got my copy yet. I'm going to the library this week. Looking forward to it.


message 18: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Do we have an updated schedule for this one yet? If we need a little more time to get ready, that is fine too.


Petra I sent Sandi a first draft of the schedule with chapter titles early this week. It needed some tweaking & she's probably working on that.

I suppose we could start by reading from the Preface to the end of Chapter III this week?


message 20: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Preface through Chapter III sounds good for a start.


message 21: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Schedule? Plan? Or do we need more time? :-)

I did read through Chapter III, and admit to being surprised at this book. It is not what I expected. I thought this was going to be a serious book. I didn't expect or know that Don Quixote was basically an idiot, a fool. LOL


Petra I haven't started yet. Until we have a schedule, people will be all over the place with their reading and discussion would seem unlikely to happen.
When/If we get a schedule, I'll try to join in.

I'm glad that the book started out so well, Sheila. I hope to start reading soon. I have hopes that the schedule will be posted this week.


message 23: by Amy (new) - added it

Amy Neftzger (neftzger) | 240 comments I read the preface through Chapter III. My book had an introduction with a lot of background - including how the different versions may have different chapter headings because some typesetters "fixed" what they thought were errors in the text.


message 24: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Okay, I don't know what happened to Sandi, but she hasn't posted anything here since Aug. 23rd.

I have asked Petra to send me the schedule she was helping Sandi with, and hopefully we can get this discussion going. I will start, and if anyone would be willing to help co-lead this one, please chime in.

I would hate to not do this discussion as I'm sure many of you obtained copies of this book. I know I bought a copy just for this discussion, and this is one of those books that I kind of need a discussion to be motivated to finish the book.

So hopefully we will get this show on the road.

Until we have more, lets read through Chapter III, and feel free to post any of your initial thoughts.

Is this book what you expected?


Petra I can help you co-lead, Sheila. If anyone else would like to do it, please jump in. I've recently led the discussion of Infinite Jest, so I've had my turn, so to speak and will gladly wait 'til another time.

Sheila, I'll tweak the schedule and send you the finished version. If you see another tweak, just let me know and I'll get it done asap.

I will read the first 3 chapters tonight and leave the preface and introduction until later so that I won't hold the group up.


message 26: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
I am going to post the schedule from Petra in my next post. This schedule is based on what appears to be the longest version of Don Quixote out there, which Petra has a free version of and I have a version I bought with the same number of chapters. We are basically a week behind at the moment, but for the first 3 weeks of reading, by next Tues. the 17th (10 days from today), we are supposed to have read 102 pages in my hardcover copy, so I think even if we are behind at the moment we should be able to catch up over the next 10 days (that is only 10 pages a day if you haven't started at all yet). Thank you so much Petra for doing this schedule. Happy reading everyone!


message 27: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Info on the book format this schedule is based upon from Petra. My book matches her book, so I believe this is the full, unabridged version of Don Quixote:

Here is a run-down of the segments and sections in my book (for comparison purposes). Mine has, for instance, two prologues in the first Part and another in the second Part…..not sure if this is in every book; seems a bit odd to have 3 prologues.

My book:
- Translator’s Note to the Reader
- Introduction: Don Quixote, Sancho Panza, and Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, by Harold Bloom

First Part of the Ingenious Gentleman
- Prologue
- To the Book of Don Quixote of La Mancha,
Part One of the Ingenious Gentleman = Prologue (yes…the second prologue) to Chapter VIII
Part Two of the Ingenious Gentleman = Chapter VIX – XIV
Part Three of the Ingenious Gentleman = Chapter XV – XXVII
Part Four of the Ingenious Gentleman = Chapter XXVIII – LII

Second Part of the Ingenious Gentleman
- Dedication
- Prologue to the Reader,
- Chapter I (Regarding what transpired when the priest and the barber discussed his illness with Don Quixote) to Chapter LXXIV (the chapter title contains a spoiler so I won’t copy it here)

This is the book format that this schedule is based upon. The chapter titles are contained in brackets:


message 28: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
READING SCHEDULE

Week 1 Sept 3:
First Part of the Ingenious Gentleman; Prologue – Chapter III (Which recounts the amusing manner in which Don Quixote was dubbed a knight)

Week 2 Sept 10:
Chapter IV (Concerning what happened to our knight when he left the inn) – Second Part of the Ingenious Gentleman; Chapter X (Concerning what further befell Don Quixote with the Basque and the danger in which he found himself with a band of Galicians from Yanguas)

Week 3 Sept 17:
Chapter XI (Regarding what befell Don Quixote with some goatherds) – Chapter XIV (In which are found the desperate verses of the deceased shepherd, along with other unexpected occurrences)
This ends Part Two of the Ingenious Gentlemen

Week 4 Sept 24:
Part Three of the Ingenious Gentleman, Chapter XV (In which is recounted the unfortunate adventure that Don Quixote happened upon when he happened upon some heartless Yanguesans) – Chapter XVIII (Which relates the words that passed between Sancho Panza and his master, Don Quixote, and other adventures that deserve to be recounted)

Week 5 Oct 1:
Chapter XIX (Regarding the discerning words that Sancho exchanged with is master, and the adventure he had with a dead body, as well as other famous events) – Chapter XXIV (In which the adventure of the Sierra Morena continues)

Week 6 Oct 8:
Chapter XXV (Which tells of the strange events that befell the valiant knight of La Mancha in the Sierra Morena, and of his imitation of the penance of Beltenebros) – Part Four of the Ingenious Gentleman; Chapter XXXIV (In which the novel of The Man Who Was Recklessly Curious continues)

Week 7 Oct 15:
Chapter XXXV (In which the novel of The Man Who Was Reclessly Curious is concluded) – Chapter XLII (Which recounts further events at the inn as well as many other things worth knowing)

Week 8 Oct 22:
Chapter XLIII (Which recounts the pleasing tale of the muledriver’s boy, along with other strange events that occurred at the inn) – Chapter LII (Regarding the quarrel that Don Quixote had with the goatherd, as well as the strange adventure of the penitents, which he brought to a successful conclusion by the sweat of his brow)
This ends Part Four of the Ingenious Gentlemen, which is the end of “First Part of the Ingenious Gentleman”


Week 9 Oct 29:
“Second Part of the Ingenious Gentleman”, Dedication & Prologue To The Reader & Chapter I (Regarding what transpired when the priest and the barber discussed his illness with Don Quixote) - Chapter VIII (Which recounts what befell Don Quixote as he was going to see his lady Dulcinea of Toboso)

Week 10 Nov 5
Chapter IX (Which recounts what will soon be seen) - Chapter XIX (Which recounts the adventure of the enamored shepherd, and other truly pleasing matters)

Week 11 Nov 12
Chapter XX (Which recounts the wedding of rich Camacho, as well as what befell poor Basilio) - Chapter XXVIII (Regarding matters that Benengeli says will be known to the reader if he reads with attention)

Week 12 Nov 19
Chapter XXIX (Regarding the famous adventure of the enchanted boat) – Chapter XL (Regarding matters that concern and pertain to this adventure and this memorable history)

Week 13 Dec 3
Chapter XLI (Regarding the arrival of Clavileno, and the conclusion of this lengthy adventure) – Chapter L (Which declares the identities of the enchanters and tormentors who beat the duenna and pinched and scratched Don Quixote, and recounts what befell the page who carried the letter to Teresa Sancha, the wife of Sancho Panza)

Week 14 Dec 10
Chapter LI (Regarding the progress of Sancho Panza’s governorship, and other matters of comparable interest) – Chapter LXII (Which relates the adventure of the enchanted head, as well as other foolishness that must be recounted)

Week 15 Dec 17
Chapter LXIII (Regarding the evil that befell Sancho Panza on his visit to the galleys, and the remarkable adventure of the beautiful Morisca) – Chapter LXXIV (I won’t put the name of the chapter here as it contains a big spoiler)


message 29: by Amy (new) - added it

Amy Neftzger (neftzger) | 240 comments Thanks for jumping in here with a schedule, Sheila! Petra, you did a beautiful job leading Infinite Jest and I'm all for you helping out here.


Petra Thanks, Amy!

I've read the first three chapters & am quite enjoying the craziness.
Is this book what I expected? I don't know anything about this story so had no real expectations. However I didn't expect it to be so light & humorous. I don't mean to make light of Don Quixote's looniness & am a bit concerned for his safety while out in a (sometimes) cruel & abusive world, however his story is being told in a cheery, zany way.


message 31: by Marcia (new)

Marcia (marcygold) Unfortunately, I have not been able to start yet. i have a copy on hold at the library, but it hasn't come in yet. When it does, I will try to catch up if possible.


Petra Marcia, I'm glad that you'll be joining us. So far, it reads pretty quickly so you'll be able to catch up fairly easily (and we'll be here for a long time....this is a biggie). :D


message 33: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Marcia, I agree with Petra that this reads pretty quickly. We are also not scheduled for an extensive amount of pages each week, so catching up should be fairly easy.

Petra, I also had no idea this book would be so humorous, so absurd. For some reason I was expecting this to be some "oh so serious" book.


message 34: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Starter question:

Do you think Don Quixote is insane, or is his behavior a conscious choice?


Petra There is a very "Monty Python & The Holy Grail" moment in Chapter IV. I cracked up in the lunch room when reading it. I'm not sure whether the scene was all that funny or whether it was funny because it reminded me of the scene in Holy Grail.
I'll comment more next week when we talk about that section. Or are we talking about the first 10 chapters this week? (I'm easily confused :D)

Shiela, I don't know. Don Quixote was a rational estate owner who got immersed in his books of chivalry and knights errant. I'm not sure, at this point, if he truly went mad or if what he read was a world he wanted to see and is now trying to make happen.
In a way, the world of the knights is a kind, generous world where men (knights) take care of their women by loving them and defending them at all costs.
We don't know much about the world/life of Don Quixote, the estate owner. Perhaps he saw wickedness and abuse and such forth; and perhaps his reading gave him a solution to the ills he perceived.
I'm going to hold off on a definitive answer about his sanity until we're further along in the book.


message 36: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Our discussion though chapter 10 (X) theoretically starts tomorrow. :-)

I think I will need more time to decide about his sanity too, but I am heavily leaning towards the fact that he is totally off his rocker!


message 37: by Amy (new) - added it

Amy Neftzger (neftzger) | 240 comments I think he's crazy and that's part of Cervantes motivation in writing the book. I don't know if this is the case, but I get the impression that he made it humorous on purpose because he was making fun of the genre and how some people were taking it too seriously.


message 38: by Petra (last edited Sep 10, 2013 11:37AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Petra I loved this scene in Chapter IV:
Don Quixote had just charged at a group of people with his lance at the ready, Rosacintha had tripped and thrown Don Quixote to the ground. He couldn't get up because of the weight of his armour.
"And as he struggled to stand and failed, he said: 'Flee not, cowards; wretches, attend; for it is no fault of mine but of my mount that I lie here.' "

The picture in my head took me back to Monty Python & The Holy Grail; the scene with the Black Knight in the forest. As he lies on the ground, with no arms or legs and yells at the White Knight, "It's only a flesh wound. Come back and fight like a man."


message 39: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
Good point, Amy. Cervantes might have been making fun of the whole genre. I had not thought of that.

Petra, I have never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but I have heard of it. I wonder if it was made at all as a spoof of Don Quixote?


message 40: by Amy (new) - added it

Amy Neftzger (neftzger) | 240 comments Monty Python was spoofing the Legend of Arthur, so we should see similarities if Don Quixote was meant as a literary spoof of the genre. Even if the details in the stories are different, they're spoofing the same culture, themes and values.


message 41: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
In last week's reading, they destroyed/burned a bunch of books at Don Quixote's house, thinking they were the cause of the way he was acting. I found it amusing that some of the books they were debating destroying were books by Cervantes himself. Why is the author making himself part of this story? For reality? For spoof?


message 42: by Petra (last edited Sep 12, 2013 08:19AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Petra I laughed at that, too, Sheila. I don't have a clue why he included himself in the narrative. Maybe just as a joke? But then....the books were all about chivralic literature and Don Quixote is (or seems to be) a chivralic piece of literature; so maybe he is including himself in amongst the great chivralic writers?

I found that book burning segment disturbing. The way they were judging the books was so arbitrary and many of them were judged as a group (the sins of the father are passed to the son and all are condemned?); others were "saved" because the judges liked the books; others were burned because the judges disliked the books. Their content was hardly of any concern when it came to their destiny.
I wondered if Cervantes was spoofing mankind for being so judgemental and looking only out for one's own purposes/interests. Or that mankind can only judge through their own belief system and that this may not be a good way to judge at all; that we don't understand enough to be good judges of anyone/anything's destinies. Kind of a "live and let live" thing.


Petra Amy wrote: "Monty Python was spoofing the Legend of Arthur, so we should see similarities if Don Quixote was meant as a literary spoof of the genre. Even if the details in the stories are different, they're sp..."

Interesting. Perhaps there will be more Monty Python moments then. :D


Nathalia | 26 comments I just finished the book I was reading before, and am now trying to catch up with you. I am looking forward to the discussion!


message 45: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
We are happy to have you join us, Nathalia. The more the merrier! :-)


Irene | 3973 comments I caught up over the weekend. This is laugh-out-loud funny. I knew it was a satire, but I expected a Goliver's Travels type satire which would leave me scratching my head more often than not. But, the translater is excellent and the humor is relevant. I love the more tongue-in-cheek moments such as when the inn keeper brags of his knightly adventures in various lands where he prooved the lightness of his foot and the lightness of his fingers, bedding widows, deflowerin maidens, defrauding orphans and all the other chivalrc virtues. This is an easy and terrifically fun read. I needed this after some darker books recently.


message 47: by Sheila , Supporting Chick (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sheila  | 3485 comments Mod
It is funny, isn't it Irene. It is not what I was expecting at all. In a good way not what I was expecting. I am finding it an easy, enjoyable read.

So we should now be up to the beginning of part 3 of the Ingenious Gentleman (Chapter XV).

Sancho is now riding with Don Quixote on his travels. Do you think Sancho honestly believes in Don Quixote?

We also witness the funeral of a deceased shepherd. Did you see any significance to this funeral?

Any other thoughts on the book so far? Anything that made you laugh? Smile? Groan?


Irene | 3973 comments Woops, guess I read that schedule wrong. I thought we were at XIII. I wonder how much Don Q believes. He strikes me as a child playing make-believe who is so intent that he convinces himself. When he tilts with the windmills, Sancho asks him if he can't see that they are not giants, but ordinary windmills. He responds that he says that they are giants and so they are giants. That sounded very much like a child at pretend play.


Irene | 3973 comments OK, now I am at the start of Part III. More than the death of that shepard, I thought the speech of the shepardess was significant. Those chivalric stories seemed to be filled with people languishing over unrequited love. I loved how stupid she made that idea sound.

As for Sancho's belief in Don Q, it appears that he is getting swept up into his fantasy. When I first saw Sancho being recruited, I wondered about the wife and children being left at home. But, now I am thinking that his wife probably encouraged his departure and changed the locks. It must be easier with one less over grown child at home to feed and watch over.

I think this book is making fun of how easily we substitute fiction for reality. In the 1600's it was the stories of chivalry that infected people's imagination like some sort of virus. Rather than realizing that these were entertainment, they began to evaluate their lives according to this fantasy world. Today, I think we do something similar with romance. We have begun to believe that everyone will find and marry their soul mate and that the partner will be of above average in their good looks, wealth, sensativity, professional success, and all the rest. No soulmate is average, is filled with flaws and all of hem are magnanimous in understanding our flaws. I think this makes people quikly disallusioned with their marriages. I think it is the suggestability of our imaginations that make us so susceptible to advertising.


Nathalia | 26 comments Irene wrote: "Woops, guess I read that schedule wrong. I thought we were at XIII. I wonder how much Don Q believes. He strikes me as a child playing make-believe who is so intent that he convinces himself. Wh..."

I have now caught up. I had a few laughs at especially the points, where he play-pretends. I remembered how we played Pirate-Ship with some trees and only went to the shark-ridden ground with beating hearts and squealing in panic.
I also thought about how stories change our perceptions... maybe not to that extent. But when I read all the Jane Austen Novels as a teen, I also felt I had to behave and talk the way the heroines did and wanted to curtsey at times.

I think Sancho is well aware of the craze, especially when he tells Don Quixote they might land in jail for attacking the Biscayan. Maybe he was bored and just along for the ride. :-)


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