The Sword and Laser discussion
TV, Movies and Games
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Necessary for true S&L geek cred
For some serious S&L cred, watching and loving the movie "Krull" is a great place to start. It's that great 80s mix that really makes the term Science-Fiction Fantasy. Spaceships, medieval kingdoms, lazer staffs, cyclops friends, and wizards!For games, any of the Elder Scrolls games. There is so much lore involved in them that it will make your head spin. Read through their wiki some time, great stuff.
I'd also submit, for cartoons, G.I. Joe. It's a great military SF. Especially the cartoon movie which brings in Cobra-La. That thing gets bonkers, but so much fun.
Star Wars is too obvious as much as I love it because it is now The most of all mainstream geekdom.Star Trek Is a love it or hate it thing Mostly...I hate it but am well aware of it and all it's tropes and captain's etc
So For me It's Firefly, Buffy, Some basic comic and Video game knowledge is a must and some love of science and tech (even a very basic). But some love of my other personal faves don't hurt like Highlander, TMNT, At least New Dr. Who, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, maybe even some anime.
But since being a geek suddenly became cool I hate the whole "Yeah, I saw Batman and Star Wars and liked'em and played Nintendo when I was a kid so dude I'm such a geek." crap.
Earn your geek stripes :)
I would add:The Princess Bride to the movies, and a for games:
at least one flick with actual Pen & Paper RPG's, your choice of D&D, White Wolf or Call of Cthulhu for Sword and Traveller/Shadowrun/Cyberpunk for Laser
For Computer the old TSR D&D games (Pool of Radiance, Eye of the Beholder, Bonus Laser for Buck Rogers), Neverwinter Nights, Plancescape:Torment, MMO of Choice (Ultima, Everquest, WoW, etc.), Dragon Age, any of the Elder Scrolls games for Sword.
Laser would be Deus Ex, Bioshock, System Shock, Half-Life, Portal, Wing Commander, Elite.
Assassins Creed probably in between, it's Swordy and Laser-ish.
Or even worse the dreaded..."I'm a hot chick that found a pair of geeky glasses a wonder woman tee and an old game controller look what a cool geek I am take my picture while I flash you." crap.True geek girls are to be honored and adored not used for playing naked pretend time by mundanes :)
There's nothing wrong with some naked pretend time >_>
Ala wrote: "There's nothing wrong with some naked pretend time >_>"Yes, but I just hate those girls with the pictures all over the net who exploit the new geek chic as an excuse for it...real geek girls who are legit should of course go for it :)
Paul wrote: "Or even worse the dreaded..."I'm a hot chick that found a pair of geeky glasses a wonder woman tee and an old game controller look what a cool geek I am take my picture while I flash you." crap."I don't know, I'd rather give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're testing the geek waters. Let's show them more of the culture. The more the merrier!
Honestly its hard to put a finger on geek cred because their are so many choices but it doesn't take long to sort out the pretenders.I know Book geeks, I know Comic and or Manga geeks, Anime, and Video games, and TV/movie geeks, board game geeks and on and on. Truly being a geek means to love and obsess over a particular thing or group of things. Hell I'm a sports geek as well.
But The geekdom you are talking about is pretty deep and wide and I wouldn't exclude someone because we didnt have the same interests but it's pretty easy to sort out the poseurs :)
For me when you start talking Whedon, your in :)
Paul wrote: "For me when you start talking Whedon, your in :)"Yes, a sure sign that a person has been sucked in and there is no getting out. But who would want to leave?!
When you've listened to the commentary tracks on the entire season of Firefly more than once…you might be a sci-fi geek.
Sean wrote: "When you've listened to the commentary tracks on the entire season of Firefly more than once…you might be a sci-fi geek."In college I listened to the actor and director commentary for the extended editions of all LOTR films. Great times.
Jeffrey N. wrote: "Sean wrote: "When you've listened to the commentary tracks on the entire season of Firefly more than once…you might be a sci-fi geek."In college I listened to the actor and director commentary fo..."
Oh my, so did I. For hours and hours. And I would also add Dr. Horrible's Sing along Blog. Whedon is my master now.
Here is the way I look at it, if you want to be an S&L geek, congrats you are. Anything else is just deepening the experience. I don't like talk about geek cred because that very quickly turns in to a discussion about who really is and who isn't.. And that to me is a load of bull. I may not personally think someone like my mother who hates SF in general but absolutely loves Star Wars as a geek, but she does and that's great. Lets try and expand not reduce our membership.
Christopher wrote: " Lets try and expand not reduce our membership. "Exactly. I've been able to get my wife to read things she'd normally have never touched. Now she claims Harry Dresden as her book boyfriend and loves Dr. Who. I honestly think there is something for everyone.
The thing I hate about these "geek cred" convos is the idea that anyone should be the arbiter of "what is geek". Like the Kingdom of Geek must be guarded from the hoards of imposters.Fuck that. Seriously.
Never heard of Joss Whedon? That's cool, I've got firefly on dvd, how much free time do you have? Never played Civilization, dude here's my copy, enjoy! Not into Supernatural? No big, maybe you wanna watch X-Files? Don't read comics? Hey, I got what you need, Wonder Woman the Animated Movie will rock your socks.
I don't require an encyclopedic knowledge of the masters of SciFi media to approve of someone's coolness, nor should I. And I certainly don't expect people to give up hours of their lives watching/reading/playing whatever I deem necessary in order to prove to me how worthy they are of the "geek" name.
Jesus Christ, Ten years ago being a geek was a bad thing, but now apparently we're too good to take anyone but the best.
As someone whose been accused of fake geekgirlness. Fuck that with a sharpened spoon.
I never got the whole fake geek girl thing anyway. Is she in costume? Then she's a cosplay geek. Is she playing a game? Then she's a gamer. Is she looking for attention and acceptance from a group of outsiders? Isn't that what we're all doing? So get of your high horse. There is no such thing as a fake geek people.
I guess I wonder about people here in this group who maybe feel left out because they haven't the storehouse of trivia that underlies some of our discussions. Also for people who are just getting into these genres, it's interesting to get an idea of what is out there, and what the more dedicated people think is important to know, or where to start, or even what is a waste of time.
Like people who know nothing about Asimov's Robots, might be missing a layer of meaning when they watch Alien, because IS the android following the Rules? Of course it doesn't matter, Alien is a great flick anyway.
I never want to make anyone feel left out of a group, I'd rather like to know what they haven't been exposed to yet so I can geek out and try to convince them how superduper The Fifth Element is and why and Leeloo Dallas Multipass!!
Sorry, lost it there for a minute.
But also, I've been in a book/movie niche and mostly fantasy (books anyway) and so its nice to see what manga/comics, games, cartoons I might want to explore to enhance my S&L experience.
S&L culture is like a huge pond of cosmic ooze - you can dip your toe into different areas, or jump in and wallow in the cool, possibly toxic, often life-changing, deeps.
I dunno much about a lot of the stuff here, but I have seen all 12 hours of the LotR "making of" documentaries on the special edition dvds (parts more than once) - I'm definitely a geek. But I happily admit to my ignorance in other areas and want suggestions.
Like Tom, when he finally read the Dark Tower stuff by Stephen King, he read all the peripherals too, for the full immersion. (listening to the old podcasts lately).
Ok wall of text and I'm babbling now - I am a meat popsicle!
First off, whining about 'fake geek girls' is pathetic. If someone wants to dress up as a character that they like and it so happens that the representation of that character involves skimpy outfits that's fine. Maybe that woman (or young girl) is entering geek culture via her love of fashion or costuming vs some other avenue AND THAT'S FINE. Quit this gatekeeping bullshit. None of you have any right to say what makes a 'true' geek, to exclude others or to judge them. This crap is one of the worst things about our culture - we should be inclusive and not putting up barriers that keep others out. You love anime? Awesome. I think it's silly. But you know what? I'm not going to judge you for loving it. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's just a difference in tastes. That goes for every single thing we can think of in SFF.
There is no litmus test for being a geek and those of you trying to gatekeep are not doing any of the rest of us a favor by doing that.
More simply:
Now that is somewhat laudable, though you've inadvertently stumbled on to one of the uglier aspects of the geek comunity. Sadly there are a lot of people who use ignorance of certain things as a way to try and exclude people from what they consider geekdom. And as such a lot of us, usually women but to a lesser extent anyone who doesn't fit the white and nerdy archetype, can get somewhat defensive. But we are genuinely tired of having our geek cred challenged all the time.
Sorry this topic isn't going anywhere near what I intended. I worded my opening badly. I was aiming toward sharing your knowledge with those who don't have it, NOT trying to make people feel excluded for not knowing.I won't edit my post, because then these answers wouldn't flow correctly. But I do acknowledge the problem. Many people do use their huge mental logs of trivia to act superior and form cliques, I hope no one here thinks I'm belittling them for not spending as much personal time on any of these things.
This is like a school to me, where some of you are seniors, with PhDs in sci fi movies or anime or comic books, and others are just freshmen, general studies. No bullies allowed. All here to learn.
Michele - the problem for me is this atttitude:"...Which movies/tv shows/games do you think are almost necessary to have knowledge of to claim full acceptance as a die-hard S&L geek and not a wannabe? ..."
No one gets to tell others whether they're a true geek. For a much better screed on this than mine, read Scalzi: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/26...
The entire post is worthwhile but allow me to quote the heart of it: If anyone tells you that there’s a right way to be a geek, or that someone else is not a geek, or shouldn’t be seen as a geek — or that you are not a geek — you can tell them to fuck right off. They don’t get a vote on your geekdom. Go cosplay, or play filk, or read that Doctor Who novel or whatever it is you want to do. Geekdom is flat. There is no hierarchy. There is no leveling up required, or secret handshake, or entrance examination. There’s just you.
Anyone can be a geek. Any way they want to. That means you too. Whoever you are.
More on the topic you wanted to talk about... yes, there's a lot of aspects to geek culture and all of us can be exposed to more and perhaps find other stuff to love. One of the reasons I like S&L in particular is that I'm an SF reader with only minor exposure to most fantasy. Having a book club that alternates between laser and sword has exposed me to some new good stuff to read and finding new, good stuff is a win.
I think part of the problem, Michele, is that you covered quite a few of the essentials in the OP. However, even though I haven't played it in years, I will submit for everyone's consideration...Magic:The Gathering.There, I said it.
Oh don't get me started on MtG. I avoided it like the plague and then Felicia Day talked about discovering it and then I found the app game for my tablet and now I'm close to ordering one of those huge collections of cards off ebay and spending hours and hours making decks and finding the local groups. I'm fighting the call to Gather!
@Michelle: In my exp, over the last few years these convos usually end in gatekeeping no matter how well intentioned they start. Don't take the blame for yourself, as Christopher said, it's an ugly part of the community at large.@Rick: That's part of the reason I joined S&L. When it comes to tv, I'm very much a scifi fan, but in books, I usually stick to fantasy. S&L gave me a chance to broaden my reading.
@Michele: If you're looking to getting into a card game, without spending vast sums of money, I'd look into any of Fantasy Flight Games LCGs. They have licenses for Game of Thrones, Call of Cthulhu, Netrunner, and Star Wars (my favorite). An LCG (Living Card Game) as opposed to a CCG (Collectible Card Game) is that there are no randomized packs. $40 gives you everything you need to play with two people. For the expansion packs, they are $15, give you 30 cards, and you know exactly what comes in it. Don't like what it offers, no need to buy it!
Again, I just got into the Star Wars LCG and it is great. With just the core set I've been able to do well in local tournaments. Just thought I'd let you know.
Rick wrote: "Quit this gatekeeping bullshit. None of you have any right to say what makes a 'true' geek, to exclude others or to judge them. This crap is one of the worst things about our culture - we should be inclusive and not putting up barriers that keep others out. You love anime? Awesome. I think it's silly."Aww, Rick's just testy because Rick doesn't like anime, and therefore isn't a real geek. I joke, but seriously, I think Michelle just meant this thread for a bit of fun, with no intent to exclude anyone.
On the topic of geek cred, I find myself very surprised when self-proclaimed gamer geeks don't get Portal references. And a guy I work with loves Joss Whedon and had never heard of Doctor Horrible's Sing Along Blog. I mean, really, some days I just don't know what geekdom is coming to! ;p I try to educate these poor folk of course. In time, they will be worthy of the inner circle.
Sean wrote: "When you've listened to the commentary tracks on the entire season of Firefly more than once…you might be a sci-fi geek."
However would I get my ironing done without the commentaries from Firefly?
Hm, the thing is I know where to go for the MtG games, there's a comic book store right here in town that does it every friday night. And I can get like a thousand cards for $20 off ebay, but I don't know if they're good cards or what /sigh. Also I'm a bit intimidated since I've never played any games like this and I'm a kind of a hermit. So it would be good for me right? Right? It's all theoretical though since I'm fighting the lure. And I've vowed to sell my PS3 first, if I can find a buyer on craigslist, since it was just collecting dust and I've discovered I have no real interest in console gaming any more.
Ruth wrote: "And a guy I work with loves Joss Whedon and had never heard of Doctor Horrible's Sing Along Blog. I mean, really, some days I just don't know what geekdom is coming to! ;p I try to educate these poor folk of course. In time, they will be worthy of the inner circle."My Star Trek mentor (I bow before his knowledge) has no interest in Joss Whedon but loved the Avengers. I tried for months to get him to watch Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog. His response once he finally saw it: "Meh."
::wall slides into oblivion::
I'm sure if there are people that play MtG up there, you'd find some that play any of the LCGs. But, no pressure. I'm just a fan of the game and want to have more people be fans too :D
Part of the problem with getting a bunch of cards off ebay is, you have no way of knowing how many are still tournament legal. And sorting through them to find the ones you can still use while at the same time figuring out a deck is not a task i would wish on a new player
Michele wrote: "Hm, the thing is I know where to go for the MtG games, there's a comic book store right here in town that does it every friday night."If you have an iPad or a Steam account, you may want to try out Solforge. It was a digital trading card game Kickstarter that funded last year and actually managed to deliver on time. Game play is fast, easier to pick up than MtG, and the entire game can be played for free (you get daily rewards of booster packs and cards for logging in and playing a few matches). You can also buy boosters, if you want to get a leg up even faster.
And of course, the big draw is that you can find a random online match at any time or challenge specific people to a nice, asynchronous match. You can also test that new deck you built against the computer to make sure it's working the way you want it to work.
I'm dreading their eventual iPhone/android release... it'll be hell on my phone's battery life.
To Christopher's point, that's the joy of LCGs. The card pool is much more limited and everything is legal to play with. CCGs, and MtG in particular, has something of a pay-to-win functionality. Those that can spend more money have the better cards or pool of cards to draw on. Just something to consider.
All this talk about MTG is making me miss when i could still play. Half tempted to pull out my old deck and shuffle it a couple times.
Oh, and back on topic, I think that everyone should play Portal, if only so that they know what exactly the cake is and what to do when life gives you lemons. However, (as this picture of my wife and I shows) I may be a little biased...
Sky wrote: "However, (as this picture of my wife and I shows) I may be a little biased..."
THAT. Is awesome. :D
I hate it when a fun post starts out with innocent, fun comments and remarks and someone too serious for their own good comes along to talk about how pathetic someone else goofy off the cuff jesting is.Apparently throwing things out there to see what sticks and get a smile makes mr and mrs serious pants all huffy.
Lighten up. Everyone knows that being a good geek means being accepting and open and enjoying everyone ele's different geekitudes as much as your own...how do you take a fluff topic like this and turn all hulk on it...relax...Pangalactic Gargleblasters for everyone and chill...wow
This is regarding angry comments before CCG discussion in case of confusion
I get that, but it kinda hit a nerve. Waaaay too many people have been squashing people for not being real geeks/gamers/whatevers and there are a bunch of people fighting back. To the point that The Doubleclicks recently came out with a geek-filled video called Nothing to Prove. (Sorry, don't know how to get the link from my Youtube app.)Maybe the question should be, geeky things rock your boat?
I think it takes a long lifetime and more to even begin to explore geekdom. We have mentioned so much here and yet it is just the tip of the iceberg. I consider anyone a geek if they spend a lifetime dedicated to exploring whatever interests them in geekdom. Being a geek isn't a passing fancy but a lifetime of enjoyment. Oh, and I just need to mention my favorites, the movie War Games (my mom introduced me to it as a kid) and the TV show Farscape, which has some of my favorite aliens of all time.
I didn't see the question as "what do other people need to know to prove they're a geek?" but more "what do I need to know to prove I'm a geek?".Even though I've been reading SF&F for 40 years and comics longer, I tried to pattern my behaviour on Mr. Spock from a young age, I saw Star Wars when it first came out, played D&D from the 70's onward and Magic from the Beta, I still feel I get out-geeked whenever I'm in a gaggle of geeks. It's because there are so many areas that you can geek-out about that nobody can cover them all. For instance I know nothing about anime or Dr. Who or obscure battles of any war. I also know more about (and tend to prefer) SF from the 70's and earlier than more modern writing so I'm often at a loss with discussions here.
I guess what I'm saying is that no-one can truly be an uber-geek (except the protagonist from Ready Player One).
Ayesha wrote: "The thing I hate about these "geek cred" convos is the idea that anyone should be the arbiter of "what is geek". Like the Kingdom of Geek must be guarded from the hoards of imposters.Fuck that."
Amen. Preach it, sister.
Protips for fitting in to any group: If you run across some reference in a group that intrigues you, follow it up. If you see that reference more than once, maybe you should Google it. If it leads you down a path you have no interest in, drop it and find something you like. That's what being a geek is all about.
I tried Dungeons & Dragons once, so I get the references. But if the choice were before me to play a game of D&D in order to save all of mankind, kiss your asses goodbye. Because holy shit is that game boring.
It really is funny that the geeks have become mainstream, something that people asipre to. And that we are so specific about the genre you can be geeky in. In my own answer I automatically sorted into S&L geekdom myself, even though sports, miniature railroad, garden gnomes etc. are subjects worth of geekyness.
I agree with Michele - it's mainly intended as a list of what people deem to be "reference" works, i.e. works that get referenced a lot in discussions, and should be a fun overview and list, not any magic gateway.
Mod
Fuck that. "
This.
I think the topic should be "list the stuff you think every Geek SHOULD watch/play/etc" instead.
No need to be gatekeepers. It's a sad trend that seems to be getting worse.
Besides, a lot of is subjective anyways.
Mod
TV
Firefly
Star Trek: DS9/TNG
Doctor Who
Recently I've been all about Orphan Black too
Movies
The Matrix
The Lord of the Rings extended editions
Star Wars, Original Trilogy
Back to the Future (maybe the whole trilogy, personally I LOVE all 3, but part of that might be childhood nostalgia)
The Goonies. Not genre persay, but it's all about being an outcast..plus it's AWESOME. Goonies Never say die!
Games
I think everyone should try d&d once, but it's certainly not for everyone.
I've never been good at it, but I like Magic: TG a lot. I'd play more if it was practical/not so expensive.
Settlers of Catan - to me this is like a gateway drug into board gaming. Not to mention all the wood for sheep jokes.
Legend of Zelda (I still think Link to the Past is the best one)
World of Warcraft I wouldn't shut up about for about 5 years, but sadly the game has peaked and all my friends have stopped playing, so no more.
Mod
There are an incredible amount of deck builders now that require a lot less or just one initial layoutfrom Living card games where you buy one "pack" each month and it contains everything you need for that month as every one is the same and complete as is such as
Cthulhu
Star Wars
Netrunner
Lord of the Rings
Game of Thrones
card games from Fantasy Flight
and there are dozens of one shot or one shot with expansions like
The Amazing - Nightfall
Ascension
DC Comics
Marvel comics Legendary
Arctic Scavengers
51st State/ New Era
Doctor Who Card game
Firefly card game comes out next month
and on and on and on
Rob wrote: "Oh and as alternative to MT:G if you like deckbuilding without crazy expensiveness of always buying new cards, I really enjoy Dominion"I was under the impression that Dominion was similar to games like Fluxx rather than Magic, in that you don't have to constantly collect new decks because it's a self-contained card game.
Rob wrote: "The Goonies. Not genre persay, but it's all about being an outcast..plus it's AWESOME. Goonies Never say die!"I've never seen The Goonies and always get made fun of for it.
Rob wrote: "Back to the Future (maybe the whole trilogy, personally I LOVE all 3, but part of that might be childhood nostalgia)"Back to the Future III is the best one! Horses and gun fights and a time-traveling train!
Dara wrote: "Rob wrote: "The Goonies. Not genre persay, but it's all about being an outcast..plus it's AWESOME. Goonies Never say die!"I've never seen The Goonies and always get made fun of for it."
The Goonies is a generational touchstone. If you're old like me, you weren't the target audience and you thought it was silly kid stuff. If you were a kid when it came out, it looms large in your memory the way Raiders of the Lost Ark does for people my age. If you were born post-1992(ish), you might not even know of it if you don't have older siblings.
If you're, say, 8-12 years old when you first see it, it's a blast, because it's essentially Young Indiana Jones and His Best Friends have an Adventure.
NO books in this topic please.
I think I have yet to cross over since I've never watched any Dr. Who or Battlestar Galactica, but I think I'm pretty close.
I submit : Star Wars movies, Star Trek movies and tv shows, LotR, GoT, Alien, Blade Runner, 2001 A Space Odyssey, Terminator, Dr. Who, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica, Dune (movie or mini), Conan the Barbarian (Arnold), Legend, Labyrinth, Willow, The Princess Bride, Excalibur (or something else arthurian), Highlander, Inception, Hercules and Xena, X-Files, Mythbusters
I'm not going to even try to list all the comic book movies/tv but Superman (Christopher Reeve is the only Superman! ever!!) and Batman (old tv show and the movies) of course.
I'm not much of a gamer, though I was a WoW addict for a few years so someone else will have to weigh in on those. I did play some pc games back in the day - Might and Magic, Ultima, Zork, Legend of Zelda, Leisure Suit Larry...oh forget that last one ;p
Also I'm lacking in the tv cartoons area but even I know about Futurama and Batman. What about the old He-man and the Masters of the Universe? TMNT? The Tick? Gargoyles?
Hmm, I think maybe I'm only a padawan in some areas (games/comics/cartoons), but definitely almost a jedi in the fantasy areas and movies.