Chaos Reading discussion

Jeff VanderMeer
This topic is about Jeff VanderMeer
48 views
Short Reads > Errata by Jeff VanderMeer

Comments Showing 1-19 of 19 (19 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
I listened to this podcast the other day and loved it. Hopefully, if I put it up as a short read, I'll have:
a) an excuse to sit down and read it properly
b) someone to talk to about it

So here is Jeff VanderMeer's short story via tor.com:
Errata
I love that there's a penguin in it.


message 2: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (last edited Jul 30, 2013 11:59PM) (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
To save others the hassle of looking this up, the names Gradus, Shade & Kinbote all reference Nabokov's metafictional 999-line poem, Pale Fire. The wiki entry is here FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Fire


message 3: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
...and if you go looking for Michael Moorcock's "Mystery of the Texas Twister", you'll find some fun things. Like this:
http://www.multiverse.org/fora/showth...


message 4: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (last edited Jul 31, 2013 01:00AM) (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
*SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT*

So a couple of potential discussion questions:
* Who is Gradus?
* What does the reference to Cotton & Increase Mather tell us?
* What do we think about the theme of "place" in this story?


message 5: by Leo (new)

Leo Robertson (leoxrobertson) | 297 comments I'm on it Roobs! Will post thoughts soon :-)


message 6: by Leo (new)

Leo Robertson (leoxrobertson) | 297 comments * Who is Gradus?

In Pale Fire, Gradus was the assassin that may or may not have been invented by the paranoid narrator of the story. Nabokov is king of the unreliable narrators, so when the writer mentions that he might asssume the role of Kinbote, he is probably telling us that he can't be trusted. I think Gradus is the internal demon coming to get him as he is lead on a path of self-destruction, drinking too much... and talking to penguins. I noticed an allusion to a different Nabokov book as well: in Ada, or Ardor: A Family Chronicle, the narrator creates a memoir of his life, and sometimes 'Ada' adds her comments in italics, much like Juliette does at some point in Errata. Again, I think this is a touch of Nabokovian humour- the penguin is most likely fictional (not that we needed to go into that one at depth!) (PS. Ada is a shit book.)

* What does the reference to Cotton & Increase Mather tell us?

I noticed in the notes at the bottom that there are real characters and real events in this story. This may well be something someone really said to VanderMeer, which he is scoffing at.

* What do we think about the theme of "place" in this story?

Hm, the theme of place... I'll have a think.

I googled Lake Baikal and Nabokov which yielded this article: The 1905 Russian Revolution through the Eyes of Vladimir Nabokov in "Speak, Memory". There is a mention of the lake as follows:

English newspapers, of which Nabokov gives the example of the one his governess, Miss Norcott, received, illustrated Japanese cartoons of Russian locomotives drowning as a threat “if our Army tried to lay rails across the treacherous ice of Lake Baikal”

Lake Baikal for me is portrayed as melancholy, elegiac, a place where things might come to an end. The revolvers at the end is definitely foreshadowing.


message 7: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (last edited Jul 31, 2013 05:51AM) (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
Aaaahhhh - having someone around who has read Nabokov certainly helps with this one! I thought perhaps Gradus was actually James. That he had concocted this whole thing as an elaborate suicide. There are points in the text that seem to support that theory: "before I truly knew what James was about to do..", the reference James makes to sacrificing his life for the cause, the fact that the payments & phonecalls stopped the week before Gradus appeared etc.

I looked up Cotton Mather (and Increase, who was his father), and found that he was a rabid puritan, involved in the Salem witch trials, a smallpox innoculation proponent and very well-known as a pamphleteer. He used his pamphlets on various subjects to preach about things which in some way he saw as representing himself or his family. There was also a brief reference to Mather being one of the first to start writing about the overall cultural significance of places in the US (which jumped out at me for reasons I'll explain in a minute). I think overall, the Mather reference was another nod to a metafictional forefather, in particular highlighting how the writer becomes part of the narrative.

One thing that jumped out at me all the way through was the theme of, "how places shape our experiences". Lake Bakail was almost a character in itself, and seemed to bleed out into everything, including the errata. The ice, cold, water, forest and silence were a part of every description. There were a lot of direct references along the lines of, "you'd understand if you were here at Lake Bakail".

I love that you found that Nabokov reference to Lake Bakail! My favourite part about this story is the way it links to reality. It reminded me a lot of The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid/The Golden Apple/Leviathan: one of my all-time-very-favouritest-books. When I googled the Michael Moorcock story that's mentioned, I found links had been planted all over the internet, referencing Argosy too. There was no actual content though - just references. :)


message 8: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
I should probably come clean at this point too: I have a little penguin obsession. The feline love of my life was named Pingu, and I have a house full of every penguin-themed object you can imagine. :)


message 9: by Leo (new)

Leo Robertson (leoxrobertson) | 297 comments Ruby wrote: "I should probably come clean at this point too: I have a little penguin obsession. The feline love of my life was named Pingu, and I have a house full of every penguin-themed object you can imagine..."

Haha! How did that start?

I like your theory of Gradus = James. The clues could all be jumping off points for our imagination, when the true meaning is ambiguous. And I agree that the lake is a character in itself, as well about the element of metafiction.

Nabokov famously said "My characters are galley slaves." He believed quite controversially (typical) that he had complete control over everything that his characters did. I think that arrogance is present in the Errata, where the corrections could even change the meaning of the text entirely.


message 10: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (last edited Jul 31, 2013 05:36PM) (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
Leo X. wrote: "Haha! How did that start?..."
I saw an episode of Pingu once (the original series) where he was toilet training. He was too little to reach the toilet seat, and sat down on the ice crying, while a little ring of yellow formed in the snow around him. It was simultaneously the cutest and most heartbreaking thing I'd ever seen. It kinda grew from there. Penguins are just innately funny. I have a shortcut button on my laptop to the San Diego Zoo Live Penguin Cam. It never fails to cheer me up.

I think VanderMeer is aware that he's not the only one controlling those characters. That theme of reality being in the eye of the beholder seems to come through in a lot of his work. The errata seem to show the author changing the story, but also the place changing the author changing the story.

BTW - I sat down to read some more of City of Saints and Madmen last night. Only to come across another Nabokov quote!


message 11: by Whitney (new)

Whitney | 1363 comments Mod
Leo X. wrote: "* Who is Gradus?

In Pale Fire, Gradus was the assassin that may or may not have been invented by the paranoid narrator of the story. Nabokov is king of the unreliable narrators, so when the writer..."


I haven't read the story yet, and you two obviously have too much time on your hands. But I do love Pale Fire, so wanted to add that Gradus was almost certainly invented by Kinbote, as the name 'Jakob Gradus' is a fairly blatant variation of 'Jack Grey', Shade's actual killer. If you haven't read Brian Boyd's writings on Nabokov, I cannot recommend them enough. He catalogs the numerous sources from which Kinbote constructs his fantasy world, among many other things.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.


message 12: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
Whitney wrote: "Leo X. wrote: "* Who is Gradus?

In Pale Fire, Gradus was the assassin that may or may not have been invented by the paranoid narrator of the story. Nabokov is king of the unreliable narrators, so ..."


Okay, so if we assume that there is no Gradus, what evidence does the text provide to support this? Or are we just supposed to assume this based on the Nabokov references?

[*gentle push to Whitney to read this story too*] :)


message 13: by Leo (new)

Leo Robertson (leoxrobertson) | 297 comments Haha!

*Insert lame quote that I re-worded from a t-shirt I once saw about how time is never wasted if it's spent reading although it clearly is in this case because I'm not working on my master's thesis.*

So there!


message 14: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
I refer you to the Chaos Reading opening blurb: "...a potential time-devourer of god-like power.."


message 15: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
Leo X. wrote: "Nabokov famously said "My characters are galley slaves." He believed quite controversially (typical) that he had complete control over everything that his characters did. I think that arrogance is present in the Errata, where the corrections could even change the meaning of the text entirely. ..."

Nearly wet myself when I got to this bit last night in Saints & Madmen: "He did not know how they had gotten into his story but because he was a writer and therefore a god - a tiny god, a tiny, insignificant god, but a god nonetheless - he took his pen and he slew the bits and pieces of Ambergris he found in his children's story.

The metafiction. She is hurting me.


message 16: by Whitney (new)

Whitney | 1363 comments Mod
Okay, finally read it! Dug it. Love the connections you guys are finding, and suspect there are more out there to be found. I’d like to sit down and compare the original stories with the ‘errata’ more closely, but right now I’m too lazy.

If you take the narration of ‘Jeff Vandermeer’ at face value, Gradus is certainly meant to be James. James is the one who says to call the assassin ‘Gradus’, implying he is an invention from the beginning. He also states in his final letter to JV that he knew he (James) might have to be sacrificed, and for JV to know that he forgives him.

Also, the blurb about the story from tor.com states that James Owen has been unavailable for comment, and in Jeremy Owen’s begrudging forward, he says he hasn’t heard from James since he called about publishing ‘Errata’.

Still puzzling over James’ reference to being descended from the Mathers. JV pretty much dismisses it out-of-hand. Given the Nabakovian influence on this story, that makes me think it’s all the more important. Nabokov was very fond of this kind of misdirection, causally mentioning or having a character shrug off that which is most essential. The person / place connection may be a part of it, but why choose figures who are so well known for their fire-and-brimstone puritanism?

I searched on all the referenced stories, and they were all published in the issues of Argosy as cited (Ruby, “Texas Twister” can also be found in this collection The Metatemporal Detective )

I love the idea of the short story as a virus, with its shades of William Burroughs and ‘language is a virus’. Do you think we are among those who needed to read it for it to start effecting its transformations? Do you think Dave Eggers has read it? Anyone had any epiphanies yet?


message 17: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (last edited Aug 05, 2013 01:12AM) (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
Whitney wrote: "I searched on all the referenced stories, and they were all published in the issues of Argosy as cited (Ruby, “Texas Twister” can also be found in this collection The Metatemporal Detective )..."

Everything I've managed to find on Argosy gave me the impression that it doesn't exist. All the links are empty, and I found this (which makes it sound quite metafictional the more you read):
http://jamesaowen.com/books-and-publi...

The reference to John Dillinger nearly made my head explode, with flashbacks to The Illuminatus! Trilogy: The Eye in the Pyramid/The Golden Apple/Leviathan (he was frequently referenced in that metafictional work).

Re the Mather reference -I'm thinking that it's more Cotton Mather's pamphleteering (which sounds close to metafiction) that is the focus. Maybe.

I hadn't really thought much about language-as-a-virus (which is odd, given that I have a GR shelf devoted to it). I do think the implication is that we are meant to effect the transformation (again, shades of the Illuminatus Trilogy's "imminentising the eschaton"). No epiphanies for me yet - but I am finding links to this story in real life everywhere. In fact, I am now being taken out for coffee by a 76 year old taxi driver with a rare esoteric book collection as a direct result.

Oh, and I've concluded that Nabokov doesn't exist in North Queensland. Can I find a Nabokov book anywhere? Absolutely not.


message 18: by Whitney (new)

Whitney | 1363 comments Mod
For anyone wanting to be an Errata completist, the "Box of Oxen" novella (one of the works mentioned in Errata) is on sale for Amazon Kindle for $2.99.


message 19: by Ruby , Mistress of Chaos (new)

Ruby  Tombstone Lives! (rubytombstone) | 3260 comments Mod
You knew I wouldn't be able to resist that, didn't you?


back to top