That's Normal's Boozy Book Club discussion
This topic is about
Dragonfly in Amber
Outlander Series
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Let's talk about Outlander Book 2- Dragonfly in Amber
For cereal. When I started my re-read of DiA, I thought I'd picked up the wrong book. What the crap was Claire doing in the present?!?! I'd forgotten about the "time change" from my first read through the series. The fact that they're apart, and that Claire had Jamie's child in the present & he's never seen her??? HEARTBREAKING. But I loved the recounting of the rest of J&C's time spent together, even though you know that they're no longer together. And the hope that, somehow, they'll end up back together. DiA is one of my favorites of the series. (I don't need to spoiler tag any of this, do I, since this is the thread for this book? I don't want to ruin anything for anyone!)
Mod
Thank God that book is told in partial flashback because without the glimpses of their time in France, it would have been too painful. Of course, their time in France is painful enough. SO MANY TEARS for that book. I still remember where I was when I started reading it. (We don't have that couch anymore, SIGH).
Something about the missing 20 years STILL grates on nerves bit with refards to the series as a whole. WHY. But then, of course, Claire would not have survived Bree's birth if she hadn't been in the present. And how could she leave Jamie's child behind to be with him in the past? And how could she risk their child's life to try to take her through the stones? SO MANY FACTORS. She made the right choice. She did. IT JUST HURTS. So good.
Being apart for 20 years is definitely a hard pill to swallow. It seems like such a long time and it's heartbreaking to think about.Believe it or not, that wasn't the part that I felt made DiA so hard to read. It was the looming battle that kept me from reading. I know from history that the battle took place, despite their efforts to thwart it, and that SO MANY highlanders died brutally. It's no secret I get too emotionally involved with the books I read and I had a really hard time reading and connecting with characters knowing so many of them weren't going to make it :(
...onward to Voyager, my favourite book!
I didn't like how Claire's and Frank's relationship turned out, but there's a bit more about that in Voyager. She DID go back in time to Frank, but then it seems it was just 20 wasted years for both of them? Or maybe the author wanted to make sure Jamie had absolutely NO competition for Claire's heart? Oh well, I still couldn't stop reading... :)PS. And I love historical novels! Can't help wondering about how much of that stuff is accurate, though?
Mod
WRT Frank and Claire: so many people live in relationships like that. He was a good father to Bree, and never REALLY judged Claire for Jamie. He was unfaithful, she was in love with someone else, but they were a partnership. I understand it, I guess.
Gah! Just finished book 2. Seriously I have no life now outside of swooning for Jamie. I wish my husband had an Irish accent.... Anyways, I didn't like the thought of them being separated for 20 years and him not knowing his daughter but I did love the book. Starting on book 3...NOW!
My favorite thing about DiA is that Roger was introduced! He's one of my favorite characters throughout the series (aside from J&C, of course).
Tracy wrote: "My favorite thing about DiA is that Roger was introduced! He's one of my favorite characters throughout the series (aside from J&C, of course)."I liked Roger, too: I guess I prefer intellectual men to brawny men and I found the geek in Roger adorable!
Another thing I started thinking about after reading Voyager: isn't the author a little too fond of wrenching Claire and Jamie apart on some dramatic misunderstanding, only to let them drift together and have sex again and make up? I feel like maybe she's jerking on my heartstrings a little bit too often, making me think that "Oh no! Now they'll never get together again!!" It's a bit soap-operatic as tricks go, don't you think?
Mod
To an extent, yes. It's what makes for an interesting plot. Yanno, conflict. I think that the time period, Claire's "ability" and Jamie's position/history/etc together kind of lend themselves to drama. The author has taken other characters in the series and written about them, which shows it's not really fabricating drama for drama's sake. It's kind of a turbulent time. What makes Jamie and Claire so interesting is their devotion to one another, and how that plays out when they are ripped apart.
Beth wrote: "MC wrote: "isn't the author a little too fond of wrenching Claire and Jamie apart on some dramatic misunderstanding, only to let them drift together and have sex again and make up? "To an extent,..."
I think what I mean is not the historical twists and turns, which I appreciate, but the romantic misunderstandings, when they doubt each other and themselves. Those start feeling a bit construed by book three, after all they've been through together by then. If I say "Laoghaire in Voyager", do you get what I mean by soap-opera?
I just started this book and it's killing me that Claire is in "present" time. How did that happen? (Don't answer!) And in case anyone was confused as to whether this was a work of fiction or not: morning sickness sex? I don't think so.
Haha, seriously, anything with Morning Breath sex is is a work of fiction for me. Yuck.
Mrsbooks wrote: "Haha, seriously, anything with Morning Breath sex is is a work of fiction for me. Yuck."Right! We know that Claire uses a twig to brush her teeth, but Jamie? Ugh. Whisky and haggis breath. (shudder)
Also, I like to pretend that I read historical fiction like this to learn about the day-to-day life in the past, especially details about brushing teeth and mending socks, because it makes me feel smarter than admitting a JAMMF obsession.
Jenny wrote: "Mrsbooks wrote: "Haha, seriously, anything with Morning Breath sex is is a work of fiction for me. Yuck."Right! We know that Claire uses a twig to brush her teeth, but Jamie? Ugh. Whisky and hagg..."
You're in a Book Club! Hey, you MUST be smart! ;)
I think I should explain better what annoyed me about Claire getting back with Frank and staying with him although they seemed to dislike each other so much. To me, what would destroy a marriage is either physical abuse or repeated infidelity, They both cancel out the whole idea of marriage: "with my body, I thee worship." How could I stay with a man who showed such complete disrespect of my body and soul?So, when Claire forgives James so easily for beating her or when she stays with Frank although he cheats on her, I just can't relate. I understand the pragmatic arguments, but I don't believe it emotionally.
Sorry to rant. This came to me when I couldn't sleep at 3.30 am. ;-)
Mod
I feel this way too, about some things that happen in later books. Emotionally, I can't relate.
When I started reading this series none of my reader friends had ever heard of Diana Gabaldon and they all thought I was off my rocker. I had a hard time finding the books. As a matter of fact, I was re-reading Outlander (a copy I found in a used book store) and a friend at work informed me it was a SERIES! What?!?! My life was forever changed. SO the next book I read was Voyager, and then I read this one. I have to say, this is book is probably my favorite in the series. Idk it's hard to really choose one book, or one collection of moments that are J&C and B&R. But I love Roger and Bree. When I read this the first time, I was ahem, young like Bree and looking for my special someone so I could relate to her character more than Claire. Now that I'm older,cough, I can relate to Claire in many ways except my children are still young (I had them late) and I don't have a teenager/adult at 40-ish.
Shawna, this is what I love about re-reading favorite books: the words on the page remain the same, but the way we respond to those words reflects how we've grown. I read The Awakening by Kate Chopin in college and loved it -- how empowering! But I read it again 15 years later as the mom of two small children and thought "what a tragic, selfish woman." I still loved the book, but I related to it in quite a different way.
Jenny wrote: "Shawna, this is what I love about re-reading favorite books: the words on the page remain the same, but the way we respond to those words reflects how we've grown. I read The Awakening by Kate Chop..."I totally agree. It does, however make me regret re-visiting old lost favorite novels though. Sometimes I just want to leave them there as a great read in my adolescence. Such is NOT the case with this series though.
Mod
i feel like she needs to write a Jamie & Claire ONLY book that is called "jerking on my heartstrings"
Mod
oohh deep
Mod
Rebekah wrote: "MC wrote: "jerking on my heartstrings "i feel like she needs to write a Jamie & Claire ONLY book that is called "jerking on my heartstrings""
I dread the final book. Dread dread dread. Because I think in the final book Jamie will have to die and I just don't think I can live with that. So maybe when the final book is published I'll let all of you read it first. Because if Jamie dies, I think I'll just have to not read it, ever. Just yank out my heart and stomp in it. I can say that the end of this series will probably affect me like no other. I know HP was a big harry deal for lots of kids who grew up reading the series, but this one spans longer. When I started it, I was young, unmarried, and had just started college. A lot has happened to me in the last 22 years and to the characters. I can only imagine the empty space that will take up residence in my heart when this series ends.
I always wondered,if the love was so great,why did she REALLY wait so long? I imagine she was too afraid to find out he was dead..
Shawna-I'm the same! I dread the end of the series!
Stacey wrote: "I always wondered,if the love was so great,why did she REALLY wait so long? I imagine she was too afraid to find out he was dead.."I think it was simply that she thought there was no way he could have survived Culloden and thought there really wasn't any point in looking. I am so much more like Bree here, I'd be tearing apart the library archives looking. lol
I'm about 1/3 into Book 2, and I can't imagine what in the world there is to write about in several more books in terms of Jamie and Claire.
I'm the same Shawna! I'd be obsessed with finding out all I could,about all of the people she cared about. It seems like Claire just went on with her life,going to medical school,etc.
Jenny wrote: "I'm about 1/3 into Book 2, and I can't imagine what in the world there is to write about in several more books in terms of Jamie and Claire."OMGosh! Wait until you hit book 7! LOL! Without mentioning spoilers I'll just say this, the series continues as J&C get older and follows their children as well. And I can promise there is never a dull moment.
Mod
No no no. She *had* to wait. (view spoiler)
MC wrote: "I think I should explain better what annoyed me about Claire getting back with Frank and staying with him although they seemed to dislike each other so much. To me, what would destroy a marriage is..."I had a harder time with Clare putting up with Frank than I did her getting past the beating with Jamie. I can understand her putting up with Frank because of Bree, lots of women do that. Bree thought Frank was her Father and Frank took back Clare knowing she was pregnant, she probably felt she owed him a lot. But I still found it tough to swallow.
The beating though, there is only one thing that irritated me about the beating, and that's how FAST she got over it. I know lots of people have a hard time loving a hero who can beat the leading lady but for the time period, and with what Clare did, I can understand why he did it. If something like that were to happen in this day and age I would not be understanding whatsoever. I can also understand Clare getting past it, as she was smart and adaptable to her new culture. She only had so many options. However, I was surprised at how QUICKLY she did so. Even with her understanding the culture, the men and the situation she was in, I would have thought pride might step in the way of getting over it as quickly as she did.
The other thing I found odd was Jamie giving up his right to beat her again. Yes, I found that WEIRD! From his perspective, the stunt she just pulled, the danger she placed herself in, the danger she brought to him and the group they were traveling with, I can understand Jamie feeling completely justified (for the time period) in carrying out her punishment. What I can't understand is after seeing how his wife can make such incredibly stupid decisions (from his perspective) with huge life or death consequences, he gives up his right to punish her in the way that was common back then only because she promises to listen to him in the future? What if she were to break that promise?
Shawna wrote: "Rebekah wrote: "MC wrote: "jerking on my heartstrings "i feel like she needs to write a Jamie & Claire ONLY book that is called "jerking on my heartstrings""
I dread the final book. Dread dread ..."
Ahem, Jamie lived in the 18th Century. He's ALREADY dead. Sorry if this comes as a shock to you! ;-)
Mod
"
life ruiner!
Rebekah wrote: "MC wrote: "Ahem, Jamie lived in the 18th Century. He's ALREADY dead. Sorry if this comes as a shock to you! ;-) "
life ruiner!"
Yup. It's my day job. Ask my kids. ;)
Stop the press!!!!! Jamie DIED and FRANK RAISED HIS DAUGHTER???? If this iPad hadn't cost $750 I would have thrown it at the wall! Whaaaaaaaaaaaat???
I'm assuming considering there are 9 books (total) in the series- Jamie comes back somehow....... This honestly is the only reason I'm continuing.
Horrrrrrrrrified!!
I'm assuming considering there are 9 books (total) in the series- Jamie comes back somehow....... This honestly is the only reason I'm continuing.
Horrrrrrrrrified!!
Christine - just keep reading.
I cannot IMAGINE a scenario which will make this ok in my mind! Is the tragedy supposed to elevate the (eventual- I bloody well hope) joy?
Arrrrrrggghhhhhhh!
Arrrrrrggghhhhhhh!
Mod
Arrrrrrggghhhhhhh!"
Like I'm tearing up for you. Everything you are feeling I have felt. Just trust. There are 8 books. :)
I'm almost done with DiA, and I think I need a break from Jamie and Claire. I've grown weary of her being the "shiny metal object" that everyone wants to rape, threatens to rape, gives rape-y looks to. Sigh. And I can't take any more description of 18th century wounds and diseases. I'm sure I'll pick up Book 3 in the fall when I start to miss Jamie.I agree with Shalan's comment about the looming battle that hangs over this book.
Did everyone also suspect that Claire's first pregnancy was with Brianna? That kept throwing me off -- like when does she go back and -- there's a lot of pages for someone who needs to go back to the future in less than a few weeks.
Mod
Yes, sometimes you need a break. Which is why there are 4-5 years between publications.
I thought her preg was Brianna too, and I knew the timeline didn't match up, so I was really irritated. And obviously not smart enough to figure out that she got pregnant again.
Still no resolution....... Blah blah politics......... Blah blah blah dinner parties........ All the while waiting for the death and sending back to frank.......... This is becoming a tough read...........
The books are very detailed but well written. You miss so much that you have to re-read. :) They are so worth the read. Keep going -you can do it!
And the ending has me wanting to pick up Voyager right away, even though I said I needed a break. Sigh.
Voyager was not out yet when I finished DIA! I had to wait about 6 months. I was dying, dying I tell you.
I thought Voyager was my favourite but Drums of Autumn was good, to On the Fiery Cross now but slowing down. Can't let one author rule your life! Keep going if you like historic novels. If you prefer romance stories I can see why the political trimmings would be mainly annoying!
Dear Claire, Randall is alive. Jamie wants to kill him via a duel. Jamie deserves to kill Randall. LET HIM KILL THE SADISTIC RAPIST!!!!! Regards, frustrated by your stupidity in trying to stop him.
Arrrrrrgggggghhhhhh CLAIRE! Totally hating you right now!
REPEAT AFTER ME- FRANK IS NOT WORTH IT!!!!
I am sorely regretting reading this book on the iPad....... For perhaps the 17th time- I WANT TO THROW THE BOOK AGAINST THE WALL IN FRUSTRATION!
REPEAT AFTER ME- FRANK IS NOT WORTH IT!!!!
I am sorely regretting reading this book on the iPad....... For perhaps the 17th time- I WANT TO THROW THE BOOK AGAINST THE WALL IN FRUSTRATION!
Ok. That's it.
Don't think I can EVER forgive Claire for that.
And I'm now GLAD that she lost Jamie and got sent back to stupid Frank. She deserves every bit of heartbreak coming her way. Idiot.
Don't think I can EVER forgive Claire for that.
And I'm now GLAD that she lost Jamie and got sent back to stupid Frank. She deserves every bit of heartbreak coming her way. Idiot.
Christine wrote: "Ok. That's it. Don't think I can EVER forgive Claire for that.
And I'm now GLAD that she lost Jamie and got sent back to stupid Frank. She deserves every bit of heartbreak coming her way. Idiot."
Dear Christine, Do you now understand my comment about the author jerking on our heartstrings? Completely unnecessary and exaggerated rift between Claire and Jamie. Claire, do you not watch soap operas? You should know better!
It WAS a tough read. I DIED at the beginning. Like crying. book throwing. I was warned but still.. doesn't come close to all that actually happens. THEY ARE APART FOR 20 YEARS?
How can a love like that exist and they not get to experience it? UGH
And then all that damn history. Terrible. But Still... I liked it. But it wasn't until I started book 3 (i'm maybe 25% through) that I realized how difficult of a read it was.
Let's discuss it!