July Additional Group Read Discussion

[Cheryl]

Hello all and welcome to the discussion thread for our Additional Group Read of Iscariot by Tosca Lee. This additional group read goes from today (7/15) - 8/14. Please feel free to post any comments/questions etc concerning the book that you might have (please just apply spoiler comment guidelines listed below).

Here is the summary of the book from Goodreads-

In Jesus, Judas believes he has found the One—a miracle-worker. The promised Messiah and future king of the Jews, destined to overthrow Roman rule. Galvanized, Judas joins the Nazarene’s followers, ready to enact the change he has waited for all his life.

But Judas’ vision of a nation free from Roman rule is crushed by the inexplicable actions of the Nazarene himself, who will not bow to social or religious convention—who seems in the end to even turn against his own people. At last, Judas must confront the fact that the master he loves is not the liberator he hoped for, but a man bent on a drastically different agenda.

Iscariot is the story of Judas—from his tumultuous childhood and tenuous entry into a career and family life as a devout Jew, to a man known to the world as the betrayer of Jesus. But even more, it is a singular and surprising view into the life of Jesus himself that forces us all to reexamine everything we thought we knew about the most famous—and infamous—religious icons in history.

As always please preface any comment you have that might give away important plot information with a warning like

****SPOILER COMMENT*****

-so that those who have not finished reading the book will not have anything spoiled for them.

Thanks for joining in on this read- I'm anxious to hear what you all think. For our kick off question I will ask this-

For those that have read other Tosca Lee books, how would you describe her style to someone who hasn't read anything by her before?

[Beth]

So excited!!! This one is my next read :)

Now for the question...Havah: The Story of Eve: poetic, lyrical, lush, intimate (not in THAT way but in the way she presents God in the story). This is one of my top favorites. In terms of genre, I would describe it as speculative but well within the realm of what could have happened.

Demon: A Memoir had a different style from Havah - modern day, so not quite as lyrical in the writing style, but still very real and eye-opening.

In my opinion, Tosca Lee is definitely unique in the Christian fiction genre, quite seemingly unafraid to tackle tough subjects.

[Melissa]

Beth wrote: "In my opinion, Tosca Lee is definitely unique in the Christian fiction genre, quite seemingly unafraid to tackle tough subjects. "

I completely agree with you. She has a very unique voice and presentation of her material, but she's not afraid to take her imagination to places where many Christian fiction writers might not be willing to go.

To the question, I agree with Beth on the lyrical and poetical. She has a lovely voice and strikes a nice balance between description and pacing. She adds a great deal of historical information and in doing so creates a very authentic feeling environment--she has a good immersion quality to her books.

[Loraine]

Just started this last night and am finding it very interesting.

[Beth]

This is going to be what I pick up next!

[Cheryl]

Loraine wrote: "Just started this last night and am finding it very interesting."

Yes, it's very different Loraine. Anyone else started yet?

[Karen]

I really want to read it. I have been interested in reading her books.

[Loraine]

I finished it last night and all I can say is WOW!

[Beth]

Loraine wrote: "I finished it last night and all I can say is WOW!"

Ooo, yay! I'm 100 pages in, so it's my goal to finish it this weekend :)

[Cheryl]

I am dying to make some comments, but I can't quite yet because I need to let more people read the book, but I thought it was a very interesting book. Tosca Lee is one of those authors that really knows how to tug on those heartstrings, that's for sure. I will make a comment/questions though. Books like this where you know the outcome of the book and you know it's not a good one can be challenging for me to read- i.e.- Books about the Titanic, 9/11, etc. (Although ironically enough I usually do end up liking them.)

What about you all- is it tough for you to pick up a book when you already know the outcome?

[Beth]

Oh, Cheryl, yes, a billion times, yes. I'm going to need something light and fluffy soon - currently reading Iscariot and up next is a historical novel about the Plague (spoiler alert - people will die). Yet, I still read them and sometimes cry at the outcome ;)

Actually, both of Tosca's previous books had that element too. With Havah - well, you know there's gonna be the Fall and with Demon: A Memoir...I mean, it features a demon, so bad things are gonna happen. But I managed to love both of those, so at least I know I'm "safe" in Tosca's hands - as safe as you can be with a story of this nature.

[Cheryl]

Right, I haven't read Demon, it's on "the list" . I did like Havah, although it took me a bit to get used to her style at first. But, I think she is very clever and intuitively right on in really conveying the inner workings of the minds of her characters. So good!

And I am just like you Beth- I need to "read around" the different genres to be balanced- Haha- I just read a fluff book, so now I am ready for some good ole fashioned fast paced suspense! I read Iscariot recently so I need to review it a bit more when we are all ready to dive into discussion!

[Loraine]

I found this book very thought provoking and it definitely made me look with a different perspective. It is definitely on the dark side and I am glad I am following it up with and then a cozy mystery.

[Cheryl]

I just got that one from the library too Loraine! Its up next for me after I finish my current read!

[Melissa]

Cheryl wrote: "What about you all- is it tough for you to pick up a book when you already know the outcome?"

It really depends on how emotional I feel about the subject matter to begin with. In the case of Iscariot, I didn't want to keep reading because I knew what would happen, but I also couldn't put it down.

[Jodi]

Loved this book! Pretty much read it in two days. Have read her work with Ted Dekker but this one touched my heart! So glad that it was chosen for the group read.

[Cheryl]

******SPOILER COMMENT



So just to toss a question out there. What did you think of the opening of the novel and the trauma of him losing his father?

[Beth]

The opening definitely packed a punch. The combination of losing both his father & brother, then when his mom had to compromise her morals & body to take care of them...with all of it, you could just see how that would build his outlook for the rest of his life.

[Loraine]

It definitely started the book with a bang. Also made you understand some of Judas' future opinions/feelings.

[Cheryl]

I agree- I believe his constant battle with whether he was believing that Jesus was the Messiah or not starts here with his back story. And I have to say just for clarity- I realize that this is a fictional portrayal- so I'm not sayng that this is actually how events played out in Judas' life, but I think it's a fascinating take on how things could have happened- how we as people are so motivated and colored at how we view things based on our past life experiences. It truly is a leap of faith- (larger for some of us than others) to believe that Jesus is who he says he is. But he is!!!

[Chris]

Read this with skepticism at the beginning -- was not sure how Judas and Jesus would be handled in the book. Was very hooked after the first couple chapters and became a quick read for me...I have had the library order it to add to our shelves and suggesting others to read it...Was fascinated by how Lee approached Judas and his background and the time frame with how the interpretation of how he betrayed Jesus and the interplay of what was in the gospels and what she had to fill in to become a human story. Especially on such a family level for both Judas and Jesus.

[Diana]

There is frankly much less to this book than meets the eye. In the first place, the print is large, the line-spacing wide, and the pages themselves not that many, so that I had read it very easily in two hours or less. There really isn’t that much print for the money, however pretty the layout.

Secondly, it is almost entirely pure fiction: the historical background of the period however authentic (and I'm not convinced that the actual facts about the Zealots have been fully digested) has been applied to Judas Iscariot with so liberal a stretch of the imagination that one cannot think of most of the narrative as anything but imaginative fiction. The writer has not distorted Jesus Himself or His teaching, but nothing about His personal relationship with the historical Judas is solidly factual; moreover, what meagre information we DO have about Judas in the Gospel record is either underplayed or omitted entirely. That record, especially in the Fourth Gospel, gives us no warrant for thinking of Judas as any kind of idealist. There are at least two historical errors: the Sadducees are stated to have disbelieved in the resurrection of the soul, a contradiction in terms; in fact of course they disbelieved in the resurrection of the body. And none of the narratives of the Cleansing of the Temple states that the Lord applied His whip to any human beings, only to animals [p. 277].

The proofreading leaves something to be desired. I noted at least one instance of the vulgar “off of” for “from”, “different than” for “different from” [p. 288], “wrack(ed)” for “rack(ed)”, and of the equally vulgar “as (e.g. difficult) as (e.g. it is)” for “however difficult it is” or “difficult though it is”. Phillipi [p. 223] is a misspelling, but correct a page or two earlier; “paranoid” an unfortunate anachronism for “suspicious” [p. 303]; places and buildings, not people, got “razed to the ground” in antiquity [p. 279]. “to tremor” does not strike me as real English of any dialect [p. 308].

The most positive thing I have to say about this book is that if it induces some presently unacquainted with the Gospel story to get reading it as history, it will be good. Sometimes modern people suppose that the ancient world was unsophisticated compared with ours: apart from our more advanced technology, the reverse is the case.

[Cheryl]

Thanks for the critique Diana- it's good to have differing opinions going on.

I guess a good follow up question to this might be- how much creative license is too much to take when you are dealing with a biblical fiction piece?

I think (obviously ) I tend to be on the grace side of this one- allowing some imagination to have a little free reign. I don't doubt that Tosca might have gotten a few historical things wrong or took some free license here, but I appreciated her imagination and trying get us to think on the person of Judas and perhaps what might have caused him to make the choices he made. I do not think that anyone would read it though as more than a fictional piece. Just my thoughts.

[Cheryl]

I also wanted to comment on the actual betrayal of Christ- what did you all think of how that was handled?

[Rachel]

This was a highly intriguing fictional account of Judas Iscariot and what shaped his character and decisions. It was fairly well-written despite a few grammatical issues. According to the author's note, it seems well researched and thought through, but it is definitely fiction, and she left in some of the mysteriousness that Scripture lends to Judas; even though I don't agree with her assessment of Judas' motives in handing Jesus over to the Sanhedrin, it was an interesting idea.

[Beth]

I'm with Cheryl - I think it's supposed to be completely fiction, and I don't think Tosca paints it as anything but fiction.

As far as the grammatical errors, I noticed a few of those too, but honestly, I usually notice errors in most of the books I read, so I don't think that's something that is exclusive to this book.

Since the Bible doesn't really give a full view of Judas Iscariot's personality, I thought she did a good job in showing us how it "could" have been and why he did what he did.

I'm not sure that I agree with his motives in betraying Jesus either, though it was interesting.

[Cheryl]

I think the thing I really liked about how Tosca set it up from a storytelling perspective is that it really felt like Judas fell into it and was completely deceived and almost bamboozled into betraying Christ. Now , once again to be clear, this is a fictionalized work. But I found that choice to be so interesting. Our enemy is the king of deception and has led many down a road they did not want to go by deceiving them. I thought that was a fascinating choice on Tosca's part.