Northanger Abbey
discussion
Who is the worst villain, Mr.Wickham or Mr Thorpe?
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Mathis
(new)
-
rated it 3 stars
Jul 01, 2013 08:05PM
Who do you think was the worst villain, Mr.Wickham from P&P or Mr.John Thorpe from Northanger Abbey?
reply
|
flag
Both were ne'er-do-wells, but I believe Wickham was the worst. Thorpe was just a pompous idiot who had no regard for others' feelings. Wickham seduced young girls and lied for his own personal gain. Not to mention, he was a golddigger.
I have to agree with Eliza, Wickham was the worst of the two. He does everything for his own convenience and according to his twisted principles without thinking of anybody else and how it may affect them. He manipulates and lies to every single character of Pride and Prejudice so that he may get the better end. I'm only happy that the saying "what goes aroung comes around" suits his situation in the end.As for John Thorpe, well he's just pompous and thinks too highly of himself. In other words, he's an immature brat who deserves to be let down.
Wickham was worse, although Thorpe was bad too. But at least Thorpe didn't get try to elope with anyone.
Wickham was definitely worse in terms of knowing doing others a bad turn. But I think I might hate Thorpe more -- you can rehabilitate a bad guy, but you can't fix pigheaded stupidity.
Out of the 2, Wickham is definitely the worst, but I actually think Willoughby is the worst of all Jane Austen's bad guys. While we don't know all of Wickham's exploits, we do know at least one with Willoughby and that was inexcusable.
Although Wickham was bad, I think Thorpe would have been the same, IF Jane Austen had been more experienced when she wrote NA. Thorpe destroyed Catherine's reputation without a blink. Not a nice man at all.
Yeah, but aren't all bad guys really pigheadedly stupid? They have a myriad of careers to choose from and they choose that way to lead their lives? That's pretty close-minded, if anything.
*Assuming outraged Austen-like shock* Career???? A gentleman doesn't have a career!!! A gentleman occupies himself with a little land, church and army work in order to advance his family. Work is for peasants.
Alright then, they have a myriad of "land, church, and army work in order to advance their families" to choose from. :)
I agreed Wickham is worse than Thorpe, but what about Willoughby?
Wickham was an idiot that preyed on the innocence of young girls, and believed self-indulgence was its own reward.Thorpe was as moronic, but in a different way. He basically threw a temper-tantrum when he didn't get his way. He wanted everyone to feel his frustration at not getting his way via manipulation.
While Wickham was a cad, Thorpe was far more sinister. His philosophy was, if I can't have her, then no one else should be able to either. This is scary bad. If they had social media back then, Catherine would have been bullied, and cyber stocked by Thorpe. Leading to her social suicide.
Well, if you think about this, both of them could be considered wolves in sheep's clothing. That makes both of them even more dangerous. Both of them were the handsome and desirable men (not to me) and women flocked to them. They used that to get their way and deceive. I'm just glad Jane Austen wrote her books the way she did, or they might have ended in a more terrifying way. Like in Sandra's example or any news article these days.
I think John and Isabella Thorpe together are worse than Wickham.
It's a little hard to say for me. All three of them-- Wickham, Thorpe, and Willoughby-- had absolutely no problem telling hurtful lies; so I have to guess at which of them had the most or least limits in how far they would go in that.Mr. Thorpe just seemed a raging narcissist; so I'm not even sure if he recognized that he was spreading harmful fictions. If he thought that others could be useful to his (narcissistic) hopes or aims, then they were (mis)characterized in superlative terms-- and if not, in disparaging terms. Did he ever stop to reflect upon his own gross exaggerations, one way or the other? He's still somewhat youngish in the novel-- but is he really someone who seems like he will grow into a person who is above deceptively taking advantage of others' vulnerabilities? Not that I can see ...
And Mr. Wickham doesn't even have sense enough to stop lying about Darcy to Elizabeth, after she's given him multiple pointed hints that she sees through him. He almost certainly would have abandoned Lydia to disgrace had Mr. Darcy not bribed him to marry her. And at the end if it all, he seems to shrug and laugh it all away, without even a trace of embarrassment.
Strangely enough, only Mr. Willoughby actually acknowledges his own wrongs in the end, or at least somewhat acknowledges them. He seems to recognize that he could be a better person, even if he decides to identify with his lower self. He knows how self-centered he is, and even how costly to his heart this is-- but seems to decide just to make the best of it, accepting the limitations.
So I'm really not sure which is the 'worst' of them. But I like John Thorpe the least, as he lacks even superficial charms or graces to me ...
Thorpe. He doesn't even possess any charm to help shield what a jerk he is. If he had any charm, he would be seducing women just like Wickham.
Thrope, hes just so stuck up and always talking about himself and his sister is so fake. Theyre just replusive and their mother isnt that much better. Wickham was just being a player which in comparison isnt as bad cuz thats typical guy behvior. His interactions between females was pretty noteworthy in a negative sense but you can forgive and forget in a way by the punishment he got by marrying whoever he married- i forgot.
Lydia, the brat, is the one Wickham married. Yeah, he did get his just desserts that way. But Ashley, don't worry, not all guys are players. Look at Mr. Darcy! ;) Just kidding, but there are real guys out there who aren't players. Seriously. :)
Oh I know I was just saying from my remembering of various Austen characters, I am actually in a stable committed relationshp in realtiy, I just get those males so confused sometimes. All I really remember is that half of them aren't that great of guys and the other half are actually the decent ones you want you're daughter to marry.
Yeah, like Darcy and Bingley versus Wickham and Thorpe. I get what you're saying. :)
Definitely Wickham. He was a player, liar and a deceptive man who made himself the victim just to get girls' sympathy. But Thorpe was just naturally a moran, who did whatever he likes!
mr wickham is by far the worse character ever. cunning and decieving. he uses his charm to lure young women and is a liar who always wants to make himself the center of attention and others look worse that i wanna run him over with a ten wheeleer truck 12 times. atleast with mr. thorpe, i always have a good laugh when he is in action. mr thorpe is one bad motherfucka but still a lovable ass that you want to punch in the face a million times just like mr collins. they provide comic relief to the story.
In overt behavior, George Wickham is worse, but there is a creepy and sinister undertone to John Thorpe. When Catherine begs Mr. Thorpe to stop the carriage and he refuses despite her protests, alarm bells go off in my head. If he were a modern-day college student, you wouldn't let any of your female friends or classmates be alone with him out of fear that he could sexually assault someone. I never felt like there was a sinister edge to Mr. Collins. Dorky, yes, but not sinister.
Mathis wrote: "Who do you think was the worst villain, Mr.Wickham from P&P or Mr.John Thorpe from Northanger Abbey?"Mr. Wickham, he was much more calculating.
I think Wickham is the worst because he was a liar and a sneaky piece of trash. What annoys me the most is that he was fully aware of what he was doing. Wickham is something like the MEGA-douche of literature. Thorpe seems to be just dumb and childish, I can't even take him seriously.
I believe that Mr. Wickham is worse as a person, but throughout the story, except for the elopement, he's pretty uninteresting, but he's obviously the worse person, and yet I hate Mr. Thorpe. I don't know why, he always seems to be just in the way. He's pompous, rude and annoying, and pretty much any time he does something it makes me angry.
Of Mr Wickham and Mr Thorpe, Mr Wickman is worse. Has the manner and sex appeal to attract unprotected very young women, such as Miss Darcy. What damage almost transpired with Miss Darcy and Miss Lydia Wickham. Afterall, a rushed and hushed wedding shows something is amiss in at least 1 marriage partner. (But Lydia is not the topic here.)Conversely, Mr Thorpe is a lout in 19th century terms. In 21st century (anchronistic) terms, Mr Thorpe is a gangsta. He has not the manner nor the sex appeal to attract efen the relatively unprotected Miss (Catherine) Morland. And he tried, thinking she had some money. So Mr Wickman is the more true cad.
Tali wrote: "I believe that Mr. Wickham is worse as a person, but throughout the story, except for the elopement, he's pretty uninteresting, but he's obviously the worse person, and yet I hate Mr. Thorpe. I don..."I think thats exactly it: Mr Thorpe is just in the way with his pompous, rude, and annoying ways.
Yo considero que Wickham
Pues engaño a todos con la finalidad de lograr un beneficio personal, sin importar el daño que pueda ocasionar.
Queria decir que engaño y no comprometo
I found John Thorpe to be more frustrating to read about. Wickham at first seemed like a decent guy before his true colors were revealed but I disliked Thorpe the second he was introduced on page.
I feel sorry that i came to late to this wonderful discussion and i agree with most of you Mr wickham was worst but at the same time i found it more realistic ,it s like jane tried to hard to describe him while mr Thorb his personality is not very clear in the book
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
