Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Discussion: Americanah
Columbus wrote: "when you say she feels she can "dominate' them how do you feel about that? Is this a positive attribute or one that you would take issue with? Her personality is not exactly passive or is that a fair description?"
I don't see it as positive or negative at this point in the story. I just see it as a part of her strong personality, and I agree she is definitely not passive. Obinze himself seems to be attracted to her 'spiritedness' and they naturally balanced each other in a good way.
Also in Part 2, we meet her parents and her father seems to be very passive. He seems to want to do whatever it takes to keeps Ife's mother happy and content. In a way, Ife's assertiveness might be a reflection of the relationship that she saw modeled in her home.
Shari wrote: "I agree with Beverly's comment. When I read the book, I saw one of the themes to be that of immigration, and redefining oneself in a new context, along with figuring out what context is. Because I ..."Are you aware that many consider the term "tribe" to be derogatory? Do you speak of Italian tribes, German or Irish tribes? Is tribe only reserved for African ethnic groups? Yes, I'm aware that some Africans themselves use the term, as I'm sure you are aware that some Black people here in America liberally use n****r. Doesn't make it any less pejorative in either case.
William wrote: "Can't believe I can't get my hands on this book. Number 12 on my library's list. Perhaps I'll go to B&N tonight. Especially since I discovered that Adechie writes of Trenton (where I grew up) and P..."
Man, you grew up in Trenton? I grew up in New Brunswick and she was not unkind to Trenton, bet pretty realistic in the Trenton of today, or of her day a few years back. As for Princeton, that has to be the most racist city in America, always avoided it like the plague, though did make necessary trips to The Record Exchange.
Andre wrote: "Are you aware that many consider the term "tribe" to be derogatory? Do you speak of Italian tribes, German or Irish tribes? Is tribe only reserved for African ethnic groups?"I am uncomfortable using the term, but "ethnic group" seems too unspecific. I do speak of Angles, Sachsen, and Allemanen when I talk of Germanic tribes, so maybe "language cultural group" would be more specific, if not a mouth-full.
I've been 1st on my library's list for almost a week - it's killing me! But I'm enjoying the discussion and will join when I've got the book...Sarah, thanks for the pronunciation tip; that's not something I would have picked up on unless I listened to the interview and yet it's important because I am pronouncing her name all the time in my head while reading the comments!
Is this strictly for financial stability or why else would she choose to do this? I think Aunty Uju continued the relationship with the General for financial reasons, for the status that being his lady on the side afforded her, and because she cared for/loved him. The heartache and disappointments she experienced when he cancelled dates and the joy and immediate skyrocketing of her emotions when he was able to fit her into his schedule show that she cared for him, and indicate more than just mere dependence upon him for his wealth, IMHO. I was surprised that the General truly seemed to care for Dike after his birth. I didn't get the sense that he reciprocated Aunty Uju's love/care for him.
As for Aunty Uju's abrupt departure, I agree that it was necessary for her to leave the area in which she lived...whether she needed to move to the US is another question.
"Andre wrote: "Are you aware that many consider the term "tribe" to be derogatory? Do you speak of Italian tribes, German or Irish tribes? Is tribe only reserved for African ethnic groups?"I am aware that some people find the use of the word tribe offensive, and it is a word that I am uncomfortable with in certain contexts as well. I also believe that words have power, and that one should be mindful and intentional when using them, and I do apologize if the term was perceived as being offensive. So this was my intention: being part American Indian, we refer to our own and others' particular indigenous groups as tribe/people; this is a term that I use for myself and my indigenous groups. My west African friends also use this word when talking about their indigenous groups, although use of the word "tribe" could be a translation issue for some from switching from French to English? I don't know. However, since I am mostly speaking with native west Africans-both in the US and abroad- when discussing their indigenous groups, I use the term that they use in the context of this forum. We could use the term "cultural group" in this forum and out in the world, but then most people are part of many cultures, and religion has a culture of its own. It is sometimes difficult to find a word that suits everyone, and that is culturally sensitive in every context. As for Irish and Scots, the terms used are contextual, though folks tend to identify by patrilineal family clans. In the book, Imefelu struggles because words and ways of being are differently here in the States. I think that the struggle and the thinking are important. I also think it is interesting that at certain points, people/peoples get dumped into one "homogenous" all encompassing category, as if ANY groups from ANY place were ever homogeneous! I am also thinking of what Tara said in her blog article about language growing and changing...
As far as polygamy goes, I am also aware that it is practiced in most west African countries, even though it may not be officially legal. Many, although of course not all, west African Muslims practice it. One of my Christian friends there is in a polygamous marriage- though it is considered illegal and is not recognized by the state- as well as most (well all, really!) of the Muslim women that I know there. In Benin, which is next to Nigeria and where there are a lot of Nigerians living, polygamy is very, very common, as are marriages for other reasons than romantic love. Except for the polygamy issue, I find that marrying for other reasons besides romantic love is pretty much the same in the States as well, as is the universal tendency for people to have relationships outside of their marriages!
Thinking about Aunty Uju and Dike - it seems like Adichie had to get them to America somehow - because:(a) They are sort of a "home away from home" for Ifemelu during her years in America
(b) The reader sees how living in America and experiencing racism and race-related issues, and just cultural differences in general, changes Aunty Uju and impacts Dike as he grows up. This adds depth to the story because we can compare/contrast their experiences and reactions with Ifem's, and it expands her focus because their experiences matter to her in addition to her own.
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Case in point, Ifemelu is offered a job as a babysitter for Kimberly to watch her kids -Taylor and Morgan (can names be any more WASPish?). Kimberly and her sister, Laura, go out of their way to try and make Ifem comfortable in spite of themselves. Laura even plans to change her current doctor for a new Nigerian doctor at the practice. She makes the mistake, however, of saying to Ifem: "in graduate school I knew a woman from Africa who was just like this doctor. I think she was from Uganda. She was wonderful, and she didn't get along with the African-American woman in our class at all. She didn't have all those issues." Ifem responded: "Maybe when the African American's father was not allowed to vote because he was black, the Ugandan's father was running for parliament or studying at Oxford." Ifem proceeds to tell her thats a rather simplistic comparison to make and she needs to check her history a little more thoroughly.
What did you think about this exchange? Was Ifem's criticism necesary or too harsh? Is Kimberly and Laura's (and their liberal friend's) extreme flattery of Nigeria and all things Africa often detrimental to race bonding? Does this contribute to a schism or friction between Africans and African Americans?
Ifem later meets Kimberly's cousin, Curt, and they start dating. What did you think of this relationship and how Curt was able to use his credentials and license to help and assist her with positions and offers she would not have ordinarily received? What did you think of Curt himself?
Sarah wrote: "Andre wrote: "Are you aware that many consider the term "tribe" to be derogatory? Do you speak of Italian tribes, German or Irish tribes? Is tribe only reserved for African ethnic groups?"I am un..."
I also do not like to use the term "tribes" when speaking about current day ethnic/cultural groups and avoid it when possible.
Sarah wrote: "Londa wrote: I think Uju's relationship with the General was a mixture of financial need and attraction to power...."I'll agree with Londa on this one. But I somehow have the impression from oth..."
While I thought Uju's relationship with the General was a mixture of financial need and attraction to power - I also saw this as part of Uju seeing this as being aggressive on her part to get to the goals she wanted. But she was also naive in some aspects and if not for the other young women in the same position "showing' her the ropes" she would have been in a worse position than she was when the General was killed. Her loss of innocence made her bitter when her situation in America did not turn out the way she wanted.
She lived in the rural area until she came to the city to live with Ifemelu's family who treated her well (as compared to how some families treated relatives in other situations). But was unable to get "work" in her profession until she met the General and his influence allowed for her to have the illusion of the live she aspired to. Not fully understanding what shaking ground she was on - she accepted the General on what he said. When he was gone - then reality set in. She went to America because she already had an American visa. I loved how the other young woman - told her make sure you take the generator!!! That these young women were so quickly able to get the truck and knew exactly what they should do says that the type of living arrangement was not only accepted by a viable "job" situation.
Columbus wrote: "Was Ifem's criticism necesary or too harsh? Is Kimberly and Laura's (and their liberal friend's) extreme flattery of Nigeria and all things Africa often detrimental to race bonding? Does this contribute to a schism or friction between Africans and African Americans?Ifem later meets Kimberly's cousin, Curt, and they start dating."
One thing we learn about Ifemelu from the start is that she speaks her mind, and lets the chips fall where they may. I think she intentionally took advantage of Kimberley and Laura's over-patronizing attitudes, knowing Kim would not fire her, given how well she worked with the children.
Curt? Was there a reference somewhere to jungle fever, or did I just think that? I see him as the wealthy white playboy who sees Ifemelu as someone exotic, a kind of woman he has never known.
But aren't we skipping over an important immigration sequence. Ifem got to the US with a student visa but without the funds to pay for tuition, books, or food. She is led to try everything, finally with that awful scene with the tennis coach, putting her into deep depression. Then comes Kimberley.
We can then compare Ifem's immigration issues and success via Curt, with Obinze's in Part 3.
I'd like to know what other people think about Ifem's relationships with Curt and with Blaine. What struck me is that she seemed to lose her identity and became completely absorbed into their lives. On one hand, this is understandable given that she was alone in many ways in the USA; however, she maintains her voice with Kimberley and with the blog. Maybe the author's point was to contrast starkly with the connection that she shared with Obinze. I noticed this especially (& tagged some pages) in Chapters 32 - 37.Comments?
Columbus wrote: "What did you think about this exchange? Was Ifem's criticism necesary or too harsh? Is Kimberly and Laura's (and their liberal friend's extreme flattery of Nigeria and all things Africa often detrimental to race bonding?..."I think that Laura "rubbed Ifem the wrong way" so she was not inclined to bite her tongue when she wanted to make a point with her. She was not nearly as harsh when Kimberley said something she didn't agree with.
Sarah wrote: "Ifem got to the US with a student visa but without the funds to pay for tuition, books, or food. She is led to try everything, finally with that awful scene with the tennis coach, putting her into deep depression..."
Yes. That was a critical point in the story. She was on the brink of failure when Kimberley sort of 'rescued' her with the job offer. The coach incident led her to lose contact with Obinze and she definitely was suffering from depression. I found it interesting that depression was seen as an 'illness' that only Americans suffered from, and I was left pondering how mental illness is viewed in African countries as well as by African-Americans.
On another note, I really enjoyed Ifem's observations of Americans during this acclimation period....The way they dress at parties, the tipping 'scheme', the differnce between weight loss perceptions, child discipline differences...all of it was very well written.
Wendy wrote: "I'd like to know what other people think about Ifem's relationships with Curt and with Blaine. What struck me is that she seemed to lose her identity and became completely absorbed into their live..."
At this point, I have only gotten finished with Part 2 and her relationship with Blaine hasn't blossomed yet. I think the that she did absorb herself into Curt's life, but I don't think she lost all sense of herself with him. She sort of used him to figure out the American culture puzzle that she was struggling with before him. I found her relationship with Curt fascinating. Curt seemed very much like Kimberley's husband...charming, handsome, and overly self-confident. While she really disliked these things in Don, she overlooked them in Curt. I thought Curt was overall a good guy. He seemed to truly care about Ifem, and yes she was exotic in his eyes, but that wasn't the only thing he liked about her. His over the top enthusiasm for life was just a product of his circumstance in life. At the end of part 2, he tells her he wants to be the love of her life...I don't know for sure, but that might send Ifem running for the hills. She doesn't care for him quite as much as he does for her.
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Londa, I so totally agree with you about Curt. I was reading closely to see how Adichie would paint Curt and how the relationship would develop. I was totally prepared to dislike him and I found myself feeling just the opposite. If anything, Ifem made me more frustrated and incensed at some of her actions in the relationship.
Columbus wrote: "Today is July 1st and we begin our discussion of Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. Adichie's literary awards and nominations are too numerous to name but can be found here http://www.l3.ulg.a..."I just got my book a couple days ago...will have to wait til I get past the current date before commenting or reading posts. I like, at least, that in the online format you can do this, even if behind others.
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I just started it as well, so I'm trying to catch up. - Marie
Creolecat wrote: "I just started it as well, so I'm trying to catch up. - Marie"Me, too! We're a subgroup! Once I get a ways in, I'll see if I have comments on what's been said so far...
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We have reached Part 3 and we will be discussing everything through page 366. This is probably the longest section of the book and contains one of my favorite parts of the book; The dinner party. But, before we get to that are there any additional comments about the tennis coach? This came at a very difficult time for Ifem both financially and emotionally. The whole sordid affair seemed to send her spiraling downward, she said she felt like going back to Lagos even. What did you think of this encounter? What did you make of her actions afterwards?
My least favorite part of Part 3 and least favorite part of the book was Obinze's experience in London with Cleotilde and the Angolans. The entire plot of trying to obtain a marriage license and NI number just seemed a bit much. What did you think about these experiences and Los Zobinze's entire experience in London? What's your views on Kosi?
My apologies for entering this discussion later than I intended.As a Nigerian-American it's great to see Adichie's success and have people from different backgrounds connect with and appreciate her writing. I previously read Half Of A Yellow Sun a few months after it was released (loved it but I'm not a fan of the upcoming movie) and read The Thing Around Your Neck a few years after (didn't really like it but that may be because I'm not the greatest fan of short stories).
The comments, as always, are great and speak to the diversity of experiences we all bring when we read any text.
I noticed a back and forth about the word tribe. As someone who was raised in Nigeria, I can say that the word (or at least the concept) is very commonplace and not a derogatory term (amongst West Africans). People always get asked where they are from and of course you say the state(s) your parents are from which then indicates what tribe(s) or ethnic group(s) you belong to. It wasn't until I got to the United States that I realized that tribe took on a completely different meaning. I tend to stick to ethnic group these days as it's more neutral.
Re: race in the US & Nigeria, as others have commented, it's more of an issue in the US due to its history. In Nigeria it's more of class and/or religion. Colorism is also an issue but that tends to be more nuanced.
Columbus, I like the way Adichie wrote about Obinze's experience in London. For a man of Obinze's upbringing and class one would not expect him to have to stoop so low to get papers but unfortunately he found himself in that situation and tried to make the best of it. Adichie used Obinze as a lens into the underbelly of being an illegal immigrant in the UK and I think she did a good job.
Kosi was not a good fit for Obinze. I think Obinze needed someone who could be his intellectual equal and be more invested in other areas of his life and Kosi was lacking in both respects. It also showed how easy it is for people to get married to each other just because they both happen to be available.
As for Ifemelu, I don't particularly like her character to be honest but it speaks to how good Adichie's writing is that I still want to follow her story. I expected to dislike Curt but surprisingly didn't. Maybe I gave him a pass because even though there was still some exoticism going on between him and Ifemelu, he cared about her and used his influence to help her.
Good to see you in here, Desiree.I could relate to Obinze's immigration experience in London as I have extended family members from Kenya, Zambia, and Ghana who have hit a brick wall in getting green cards, visas, etc. My nephew met his Zambian wife while she was with her family living in the Zambian embassy in DC. Marriage and three children later, she still could not get a green card. It took intervention from people with connections in DC to get past that hurdle.
Eastern Europeans have had easier entry into the US than any people of color. But that has all changed since the Boston Marathon bombings...but I digress.
But back to Obinze in London. Obinze's dream was always to go to the US. To see how difficult it was for him contrasted with the ease Ifem had once she met Curt, was hurtful for me. I really felt Obinze's pain while Ifem was happily earning income from her blog (probably financed by Curt).
Thanks Sarah :)I totally agree with your points about the immigration experience. It is excruciatingly frustrating so when people with no clue about what it takes spew ignorant statements about the process it rankles...but I digress.
I also agree that Obinze's experience in contrast with Ifemelu's is hurtful but the truth is Ifemelu got lucky. If she hadn't gotten employed by Kimberly and subsequently met Curt, she would probably have been living close to or under the poverty level because she was getting close to that. Or worse, she would have been forced to do more of what she had to do with that shady dude. She would have been in the country legally but with another set of problems.
Here's something folks should find interesting. An article and interview that was originally in the Boston Review, that appears on Salon.com. http://www.salon.com/2013/07/14/chima...
Desiree wrote: "I expected to dislike Curt but surprisingly didn't. Maybe I gave him a pass because even though there was still some exoticism going on between him and Ifemelu, he cared about her and used his influence to help her."I too was surprised at how much I ended up liking Curt--it seems like a lot of people feel that way! It did seem like he genuinely cared about Ifemelu. I got the impression that he cared about her more and was more proud of being with her than Blaine. The only real problem with Curt was his extreme privilege (not only race but also wealth, status, and sex/gender) created a vast difference in experience between he and Ifemelu, and he was just kind of naive about...everything. I think there's a part where Ifemelu recognizes him as childlike (and is attracted to it--unabashed enthusiasm)? But after trying to bring up HER experiences with him and having them brushed aside, the incompatibility is created or seems to grow more apparent. I felt bad for him when Ifem cheated (although I, like Ifem, wished he had not called her names).
I think Ifemelu's public experiences with Curt, being treated as invisible when placing an order in a restaurant, or checking into hotels, were as real to her as they are to most black Americans. How many of us have been told by our white friends that we are "too sensitive."
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http://www.salon.com/2013/07/14/chima......"
George, George... thanks for sharing this incredible interview from the Globe. There are so many good, interesting bits from this article that are relatable to the book. Some we discussed and others we have not, but nothing here to spoil your reading pleasure if you haven't finished the book yet.
There were many things that jumped out at me but the most obvious was Adichie's frequent use of the word/term "tribe " to describe herself as being a part of. She obviously has no problem whatsoever with this and uses it as such:
"Of course, I say this as kind of a pseudo-member of the tribe. That’s the other thing, since that part of the book is also— well, there’s a lot of self-mockery, a lot of poking fun at my own tribe. My American tribe is a left-leaning tribe that occupies a place of immense privilege."
She also mentions that there are autobiographical parts of her life in her books and Americanah is no exception. She, unlike some other authors are not afraid to accept this fact (see Kincaid's, See Now Then) and in fact seems to relish it.
This is the sort of interview that inspires you (or at least it did for me). She really allows you in to what she feels, how she feels and let the chips fall where they may. And, like the book and the blog, Raceteenth, it's not mean spirited at all. Just the truth.
She also talks about blogs and her recreational reading material (Elizabeth Strout The Burgess Boys) , James Baldwin and much, much more.
Please read it if you have a chance and let's discuss any parts of it that you wish.
Thanks again, George!
You're more than welcome. I've only just picked up the book, but I thought it would be of considerable interest.
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One of my favorite blog postings up through Part 3 is: To My Favorite Non-American Blacks: In America, You Are Black, Baby -- on page 222/3 if you're reading the paper edition. Adichie/Ifemelu presents a master class to her fellow Non-American Blacks in how to act, relate, adjust when you come to America. "When you make the choice to come to America, you become black. Stop arguing. ....,you're in America now. What if being black had all the privileges of being white? Would you still say, "Don't call me black, I'm from Trinidad?"
This blog posting like so many others really resonates on so many levels. Firstly, what do you think of Raceteenth itself and this particular piece in particular? Have you ever encountered through any social encounters what Ifemelu describes above? How does these blog postings coincide with Ifemelu's own life or do they? In other words, does she always practice what she preaches?
After reading the article George shared with us (Thanks much), It helped to confirm some overall thoughts I have about this book.No spoilers here, but about half-way through this book - I thought this book will certainly become a "classic" on immigration.
Adichie explores different experiences of immigrants in the US and England. It is the range and observations of the different experiences that makes this book a "stand-out". While none of the experiences were unknown to me from reading this book - I have heard of many of them from family/friends or have read about them in other books.
I feel that this book has a de Tocqueville-like feel as Adichie puts magnifying glass on being a Non-American Black and because she is an excellent storyteller does it so well at an intimate level and at a birds-eye level.
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As a Nigerian-American it's great to see Adichie's success and have people from different backgrounds connect with and appreciate h..."
Hey Desiree, thanks for sharing your comments....
Funny, I felt the same way about Ifemelu. She frustrated me to no end at times. I guess her everyday personage or how she presented herself to others was in contrast or not exactly in lock-step with some of her writings. At least that's what I thought.
It's also great that you share your own experiences especially when you come from the country where the book is set. Your personal observations about Tribes and the immigration experiences allow us to better understand how frustrating the process can be. Thanks! If you're comfortable sharing anything more we would certainly like to hear it. Thanks again!
Columbus wrote: "This blog posting like so many others really resonates on so many levels. Firstly, what do you think of Raceteenth itself and this particular piece in particular? Have you ever encountered through any social encounters what Ifemelu describes above? "I think the blog is hilarious. When I lived in NYC in the 60's I met many people from the Caribbean whose skin was black as midnight and they insisted, "I'm not black." And I always thought, "Have you looked in a mirror lately."
Then I remembered living in Virginia under Jim Crow laws, when GI's brought their filipino families back, or Indian doctors moved into town, all of whom were darker than I am, and their children went to the white school, they could eat in restaurants, and move through the society like white people.
Columbus wrote: "Ok, we have not talked about the blog: Raceteenth or Various Observations About American Blacks (Those Formerly Known As Negroes) by a Non- American Black. Sorry, I could've shortened that, but if ..."The blogs were one of my fav parts of the books.
And yes I especially liked the one you referenced.
If someone does not point out the pit holes you will encounter in a different culture - then often the rude awaking is often harder to stomach.
And there were the blogs Ifemelu discovered about how to manage black hair. After she had tried a relaxer kit and burned her scalp she was amazed at what she could learn from black American women.
Columbus wrote: "Part III My least favorite part of Part 3 and least favorite part of the book was Obinze's experience in London with Cleotilde and the Angolans. The entire plot of trying to obtain a marriage license and NI number just seemed a bit much. What did you think about these experiences and Los Zobinze's entire experience in London?..."
This was my least favorite part of the book as well. I thought his efforts in trying to stay in the country seemed realistic though. I know people that have done the 'paper marriage' thing to stay in the USA, so it does not seem out of the ordinary to me. I think the reason I did not enjoy it as much might have been that I really don't have a sense of London culture and I did not get a clear picture of it through Adichie's descriptions. She was much more detailed in her description of the nuances of the American immigrant experience than she was of the UK experience.
I also found her portrayal of Emenike, his Nigerian classmate who gave him the money, was interesting. It's sad how someone can become so self-loathing in order to adopt another culture.
Desiree wrote: "Kosi was not a good fit for Obinze. I think Obinze needed someone who could be his intellectual equal and be more invested in other areas of his life and Kosi was lacking in both respects. It also showed how easy it is for people to get married to each other just because they both happen to be available..." I 100% agree with this. Kosi was a good person, just not the person for Obinze.
George wrote:Here's something folks should find interesting. An article and interview that was originally in the Boston Review, that appears on Salon.com.
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/14/chima..."
I loved that article! Thanks so much for sharing it. There were so many times that I was wondering how much of Adichie's personality was infused into Ifemelu. I loved her honesty about it.
Columbus wrote: "Ok, we have not talked about the blog: Raceteenth or Various Observations About American Blacks (Those Formerly Known As Negroes) by a Non- American Black. Sorry, I could've shortened that, but if ..."
I enjoy the blog posts. She used them very effectively to delve more bluntly into the issues that Ifemelu was experiencing. I just realized "light bulb* that this is why I may not have felt as invested in Obinze's experience. His section did not have the benefit of the blog posts.
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Obama Can Win Only If He Remains The Magic Negro
".... and what's a magic Negro, you ask? The black man who is eternally wise and kind. He never reacts under great suffering, never gets angry, is never threatening. He always forgives all kinds of racist shit. He teaches the white person how to break down the sad but understandable prejudice in his heart. You see this man in many films. And Obama is straight from central casting."
This view of the President is currently being played out in many circles in the aftermath of the verdict Saturday night. What's your opinion on this "Magic Negro" piece? Is it fair with what's playing out currently in the news?
I love that the author has included an Obama discussion in this book. We're now in the beginning of his 2nd administration and i'm just a little surprised at how few literary novels have evoked any type of discussion about the presidency.
Columbus wrote: "What's so fascinating and appealing about Adichie's writing in this book - and maybe her others as well - is that she writes this biting social commentary so masterfully in fiction form. Millions o..."I agree an like very much how you worded this Columbus. I felt the same. I thought the way she does this makes the topics more digestible if you will. I anticipated the book being more to Toni Morrison style but have not found it so. I started last night in the wee hours and can't put it down, something I havent ffound with other authors we have read.
Columbus wrote: This view of the President is currently being played out in many circles in the aftermath of the verdict Saturday night. What's your opinion on this "Magic Negro" piece? Is it fair with what's playing out currently in the news?."Of course it started with Spike Lee's definition of the Mystical Magical Negro in so many novels and movies, and then Rush Limbaugh with his "Barack the Magic Negro" sung to the tune of "Puff the Magic Dragon." I had to bite my tongue during the 2008 campaign when so many blacks accused Obama of ignoring the black vote...so what?
(view spoiler)
And I agree with you on the inclusion of Obama in the book. Any black person, and I'm talking worldwide, who lived during those years had to have felt the impact of the campaign and election.
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Yeh, too bad Obama ignored the black vote otherwise he might have received 97% of the black vote rather than 96%.
Columbus wrote: "Yeh, too bad Obama ignored the black vote otherwise he might have received 97% of the black vote rather than 96%.";)
for me the interesting thing was how much it impacted outside of the US as well. My wife had worked for the campaign back home for a bit so we got a couple free T shirts, which we took with us when we went to Korea. couldn't wear them there, since we were both Federal employees, but we went to Cambodia to Siem Riep that January on vacation and put them on. it was definitely T shirt weather there. local folks came around pointing at the shirts calling out his name. Little 3 and 4 year old kids would come running up and pointing at the shirts calling out his name. it was rather surprising to both of us.
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Topics we've yet to discuss: Boubacar from Princeton who introduces Ifem to the school; Ifem's breakup with Blaine; more Obama after the election. Lot's more of Obama! ; what did you think of Blaine's sister, Shan? Quite a character, huh? I'm certain we all have a Shan in our life don't we?
Adichie has presented a wonderful opportunity for us to discuss topics about race that are taboo in many circles and we are loath to confront at times. Would love to hear many of your thoughts on this. Such an amazing and most of all important book that's actually rather topical, convenient and relevant now. ALL views are welcome even if they differ dramatically from what's being said. No censorship here! Let's hear from you all!
I have just finished the book, so I don't know if this point has been made, but what I found most interesting about Adichie's commentary about race, blackness, race distinctions and etc. is really the global aspects of race and more accurately blackness. I'm the US you see the misguided thoughts from people like Shan, who actually called into question Ifemula's right to discuss race, because Ifem is "black" and she is African American but she is also a foreigner an outsider. Even though the concept of race was forced upon Ifem in the US there are other black Americans who would either question her ability to be down, or throw the same hurtful stereotypes at her about Africa, that she experienced from Laura. By the same token you can see the animosity that the "African" hair braiders have towards black Americans and even Aunty Uju. This is where I found the book to be really interesting. I was expecting your average book on race, but I thought blackness was really a centre in this novel which at many times connected to race and racism, but also became a question of culture and nationality. How did people come to understand both race and blackness in Americanuh?
I didn't know what to make of this statement from Ifemelu on page 337. (I saved it in my notes.)"Black writers who do fiction in this country, ALL THREE OF THEM, not the 10 thousand who write those bullshit with the bright covers, have two choices: they can do precious or they can do pretentious."
My first thought was, who are the three, and then I wondered how much Adichie is having fun with us again.
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"Black writers who do fiction in this country, ALL THREE OF THEM, not the 10 thousand who write tho..."
Haha...I had to go back and read that one, Sarah. "not the 10 thousand who write those bullshit ghetto books with the bright covers" I guess she's referring to the street lit authors. That memorable quote came from bombastic Shan, Blaine's sister. What a character! But a realistic one.
Columbus wrote: "That memorable quote came from bombastic Shan, Blaine's sister. What a character! But a realistic one. "I guess I forgot about Shan altogether. What happened with her book? Did it not get published, or just didn't sell?
Columbus wrote: "Oh well, there's still lot's more to discuss including: blogs including Job Vacancy in America on pg 316; Dear American Non-Black on page 326; Traveling While Black pg 331; Is Obama anything but Black? Pg 338; What Academics mean by white privilege pg 347; and, Understanding America page 361Dear American Non-Black on page 326 was my favorite blog post. ALL of it was brilliant but I especially loved this part
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Don't say "Oh, it's not really race, it's class. Oh, it's not race, it's gender. Oh it's not race, it's the cookie monster" You see, American Blacks actually don't WANT it to be race. They would rather not have racist shit happen. So maybe when they say something is about race, it's maybe because it actually is.."
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Teona wrote: "This is where I found the book to be really interesting. I was expecting your average book on race, but I thought blackness was really a centre in this novel which at many times connected to race and racism, but also became a question of culture and nationality. ..."
I agree that this novel was anything but an average commentary on race. I was thinking of a quote Adichie made "In Nigeria I didn’t think of myself as black. I didn’t need to. And I still don’t when I’m in Nigeria. Race doesn’t occur to me ..." As for myself, I never really thought of African immigrants that way. It did not OCCUR to ME that race would not OCCUR to them. It is so ingrained in life in the US that I just assumed they should know off the bat how it is, but of course, they don't.
Sarah wrote: "I guess I forgot about Shan altogether. What happened with her book? Did..."
It just didn't sell well. Shan's character felt very narcissistic to me. It wouldn't have surprised me to find out she spilled the beans on Ifemelu in some way.
I was thinking about Ifemelu's character and she is not the typical female protagonist at all. *Results driven and frank to the point of callousness
*Cheats out of curiousity
*Lies to her lover
*Disconnects from long term relationship
*Always the one to exit a relationship, not the one trying to make it work
*Takes chances with employment
*Speaks openly about her sexuality
Most female protagonist are nothing like her. Male protagonists are like this all the time. I was trying to think of another female protag that parallels her personality and I came up blank.
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Good point. Your comment prompted me to do a wiki search on wheter polygamy was recognized in Nigeria. It seems that it is legalized in the northern half and recognized but not legalized in the southern half. (view spoiler)[ Now I understand a little better why Uju HAD to leave. The relatives probably thought she was going to assert some property claims for Dike. Not sure if she could though because hers was not a legal union. (hide spoiler)]