Addicted to YA discussion
Debates
>
Bad Language In Books...
Bad language in books doesn't bother me that much, it's just kinda there to me. But if it is over the top extreme, then yes, I will either put the book back on my shelf and leave it where it is, or give it away. I don't care about the occasional 'F' word, that's fine, but more than ten times is enough for me, anything else just doesn't effect me.I could probably say the same about the 'F' word, as I do will other swear words, but really I just have my limits. The reason behind why light swear words doesn't bother me is because I've heard them so much and throughout books, that my eyes just read over them. If I read enough of the 'F' word, than I might get used to it too, but the thing is, I don't want to, it's a word I don't want to get used to.
Anyway, I have a tendency to rant :/
I don't mind bad language. BUT when every page and every line is filled with those words, it gets kind of annoying and I usually just stop reading the book
Lauraeimre wrote: "I don't mind bad language. BUT when every page and every line is filled with those words, it gets kind of annoying and I usually just stop reading the book"Oh yeah, there are some books where the characters are like "Oh **** I just ****ing dropped my ****ing pencil!" I think the authors think if you add four letter words in a lot, it makes the characters sound like teenagers.
I prefer not to read the higher level swears - I'd rather just the 'he swore' or something if the author really feels the character would. I can only recall one book I've read where it was swear words on every page, and it put me right off the book and the author.
I think one or two, where appropriate, can have the right impact, but peppering the book with them robs that impact.
I can't recall any of the higher level swear words being in any of my favourite books. They're most definitely not necessary for a good story or believable teen character.
I am not a big fan of swearing in books. First it kind of turns me off because I feel like the author didn't try hard enough. Also, oftentimes I can't recommend it to my friends if it's so saturated with obscenities. Take Red Rising for example. Maybe it was it's gritty nature and slow plot but the swearing also threw me off course and prevented me from finishing it...
Swearing in books kinda makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel like the author is lacking proper language and should know about how maybe a younger reader is reading their book. Young children practically copy everything older people do, therefore influencing them to copy the bad language in the book.
If it is absolutely the one thing that that particular character would say in that particular situation, then fine. But when it's just there because the author is lazy, that's a serious turn-off. Writers are supposed to be really good with words, right? They should have lots of options. :)
I'm fine with a couple swear words in a book, although some words i i don't tolerate. Like"The Summoning" by Kelley Armstrong. It has bad words, but those words aren't what the book is about. Whereas, "Tithe" by Holly Black has swear words in almost every sentence which i thought took attention away from the story.
If someone is in a gunfight or bombs are going off around them or they are surrounded by a horde of zombies and they suddenly yell out 'HOLY FUDGE!' I think it would probably ruin the story.Unless it's in the same context as Dean from Supernatural:
"Bitch!"
"Oh, my lord! Someone owes a nickle to the swear jar. You know what I say when I want to swear: 'Fudge'."
"You fudgin' touch me again and I'll fudgin' kill ya!"
"Very good."
I have no problem with it. It's literally just a part of normal every day vocabulary. That would be like complaining about a book using the word "tree" or "car" or something. Nearly everyone swears and if you're around people to any degree you're going to here some "bad" words. If you can't handle it then I guess just stick to middle grade and below.
I don't see the problem. I am a teen and don't swear myself however if it is in the book for a reason it doesn't bother me. It is realistic. In situations where you are scared silly and running from aliens, vampires, gunfire etc you wouldn't go Oh bother! Or fiddlesticks! You would drop the f bomb. If it offends you I believe you should just put it away. Swearing is a part of everyday life and is common to hear walking down the street it shouldn't shock people to read it in a book.
I can usually just ignore it, but if it goes too far then I might put the book down. I generally prefer books with no bad language, but if it has a good plot then I can just ignore it.
If it's overbearing and there for no good reason, I will stop reading because it interrupts the plot.
I think expletives (i.e. - words you can't say on prime time TV) should generally be avoided in YA. That doesn't mean that there aren't any, but that they are placed specifically to deliver a point. In the average rated-R movie today, the F-word might be used hundreds of times, as a noun, verb, adjective, and adverb. Every other sentence has it. I don't think that has a place YA. It isn't necessary, and comes across to me as lazy writing. I equate it to using "very" all the time in your writing. Try using a stronger descriptive word instead. (Cue the scene on "very" from Dead Poets' Society.)
Again, that doesn't mean you never use swear words, but give it a meaning. A string of expletives when you find a dead body? Maybe appropriate. A string of expletives just to order your breakfast? Probably overkill.
One way to skirt this (other than the normal "fudge" or "freak" kind of substitution) is to use archaic or foreign expressions. (Think of the use of British expressions in the US Harry Potter novels.) A similar way is to just be creative about it. Think in Monty Python, "you son of a motherless goat." Or in Princess Bride, "I'll explain, and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog-faced buffoon." They convey very strong emotions, but in a way that is not a curse word, and instead shows wit and creativity.
Three series and a book that have done interesting things with swear words. First, the Maximum Ride series from James Patterson have very little swearing. Similarly, the language in the Michael Vey is relatively clean. In the Percy Jackson series, the use of insults or expletives related to the mythology is interesting. Finally, in Illuminae, the swear words have all been redacted, so you can add them in as you please.
Writers like Tarantino and Guy Ritchie have such a way with dialogue which almost always includes swearing, I can't imagine the scenes being pulled off in any other way.Django Unchained had more uses of the word 'Nigga' than any other movie in history (I'm not joking, it actually holds the record) and yet I don't think it would have been nearly as good if he had gone out of his way to avoid it.
I remember my dad complaining about how much swearing there was in Alien 3 when he saw it for the first time, but it takes place in a prison with some of the worse criminals in the galaxy populating it so how could there not be swearing?
As long as you don't repeat the bad language it's fine. Bad language doesn't really bother me in fact it makes the characters seem more realistic because in reality people say bad words and inappropriate things.
Well personally I don't mind a book with some bad words as long as the main text is written finely And I think sometimes it is necessary to have some of those scenes with bad language such as in anger and frustration moments when characters are supposed to be using those words to express their feeling.
I don't really care if there's bad language in a book, be it a YA novel or an adult novel. I curse and swear like any other person, so I'm not that phased by f-bombs or the a-word or s-word or b-word or whatever other vulgar words and phrases there are. But I do understand that some people aren't comfortable with it for whatever reason, it sounds trashy or disgusting, and I do have to admit that if there's cursing in every other line in the novel it kind of takes away from the author's ability to write well. But a few bad words in a book are completely fine.And also, I saw a comment up somewhere in the thread, I don't remember whose it was, but it said something along the lines of a the fact that because someone isn't able to read books that have curse words or just can't accept it can't be considered as mature. To that I would like to say that if that is how you judged a book as being mature, I highly disagree with you. A book can have no cursing and sex in it and still be mature because it has complex themes that can only be understood as a person grows older. And just because a person can't accept cursing and are uncomfortable about cursing does not make them immature by any standards; it's just their preference and how they feel, and that does not make them any less of an adult.
I mean, i don't have a problem with bad language in the books. For some people on the other hand who don't curse are more sensitive to it, i don't know why. It's not a big deal if you read somewhere a curse word, like it's not the end of the world or it is not like your ears will suddenly bleed from it. Life motto while reading a book: "Just chill"
In real life, people swear. Adults, teenagers, and sometimes even kids. I think including these swear words in novels is a testament to their realism. However, swear words, like every other word, must be implemented with careful attention. It's not about "foul language" or "good language". It's about language in general. You don't write a book by shoving random words together and hitting submit -- no, you edit and edit and edit. In that editing process, you make sure every word you're putting down counts, and serves a purpose in your novel.
Believe it or not, swear words can serve a purpose in novels, just as they do in real life. In reality, swear words can signify many things -- stress, confusion, fear, passion -- but the underlying idea is that they are vocal display of emotions that cannot otherwise be put to words. If your character is going through this, then by all means, swear the fuck out of it. Otherwise, there's no need.
(I should note that swear words should usually be used for dialogue alone. In the case of descriptive text, try asking yourself "what am I really trying to say here?" because the answer may instead lead you to finding a stronger verb or adjective that even better represents what you are trying to say. However, texts with a stream-of-consciousness narrative voice may present an exception to this rule.)
Additionally, if you're thinking about using swear words in your own writing, I do recommend only using them when you *have* to. That way, they used less often and therefore carry a lot more weight when you finally do use them, than they would if used all the time. A key example of this, which notice someone previously to have mentioned, is in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, (view spoiler). Because JK Rowling so rarely used swear words in her text (aside from Ron's "bloody hells," which I hardly think count), this instance provided such a greater emotional impact on the reader.
My personal opinion? More than swearing, what bothers me is when authors intentionally try to avoid the use of swear words by replacing them with "clean" swear words. As if there were such a thing! (An example of this is saying "frak" instead of "fuck.") Once you consider what swear words actually are (as I've highlighted above), you realize that using supposedly "clean" swear words is in itself a impossibility. Outside of social construct, what about the words "fuck" or "shit" is more inappropriate than "frak" or "poop"? Nothing, I assert. There are, of course, context-related exceptions to this as well. An obvious one is a fantasy or science-fiction novel, in which the swear words of the world are themselves different. In these situations, I am okay with this "fake swearing" because for the characters, it is real.
What I've explained is true for all genres and demographics in fiction. Not just Young Adult.
Young Adult is a fascinating genre to me, because while it's supposed to represent and appeal to a teenage demographic, its written by adult authors. This instead causes a gross misrepresentation of teenagers as a social group. On the topic of swearing, this often leads to one of two extremes: (1) the text features excessive use of unnecessary swear words, purely for the purpose of "appealing" to teens; or (2) the text intentionally neglects swear words under the claim that they are "inappropriate" for young audiences, sometimes replacing it with the aforementioned "clean" swear words. I think this is something that needs to be called attention to, because both instances are equally irritating and signs of bad writing.
If you're still here after all my blabber, thanks for reading my comment!
A little bit is ok, a few S-words every now and then when it is necessary... BUT a YA book I recently read had about 5 F-bombs on every single page and it was absurd! Especially when they weren't necessary... IF it is in context and necessary to show emotion it doesn't bother me too much but I still think there is no need for it! but the F-bomb every few lines is ridiculous. I feel as if there needs to be a warning about that kind of language being in a book.
Its true that many books tend to have a lot of profanity. I am personally alright with it as long as the character isn't cussing every other line in the book. Though I agree that there should be a notification on any book that has a certain degree of profanity.
I think it is a pathetic, lazy way to lay down words.
This discussion began years ago, but I only just read it now (well, most of it - it's a long discussion!).Swearing is so cultural, apart from anything else. Just look at the comments here: I call it swearing, Americans call it "cussing" or "cursing" etc.
Substitutes like "heck" don't even exist in the countries I've lived in (England/Australia/Ireland). The only time I've ever heard the word is on US TV.
"Bloody hell" was considered *appalling* a few generations ago, because of the religious connotations. Once upon a time people were arrested for saying it in public in some countries.
I was SHOCKED recently to read an American teen's review of Tomorrow, When the War Began. It's set in Australia, and the place the teens hang out is called "Hell". Apparently this was deeply offensive to school students in some places, whereas in Australia teens have been reading the book since it came out in the early 1990s, and nobody ever thought anything about it. I studied it sixth grade!
As for swearing in books? I think there's a place for it in YA (I was a quiet little nerdy girl in high school, and even I swore).On the other hand, I don't want to see the sort of swearing in books for teens that I'd see in - for example - a military suspense book written for adult readers.
Again: it's so cultural. You can't live here in Australia and not come across "bloody" on a daily basis!
(edit: Wow, generated ads are creepy. I made this post, and now all my ads on this site are for Australia's Defence Force Academy!)
I don't mind foul language in books, but it definitely needs to be justified. If a book is throwing out crass language just for shock value or to be gritty, that doesn't really work for me. I've also seen swearing used as a way to villify characters. Again, not a fan - it falls into demonizing people for behaviours that aren't actually harmful and is, in my opinion, kind of a lazy way to establish a character as villainous. But if swearing is used to heighten emotion and dial up the impact of specific scenes, then I'm all for it.
As a writer I try to avoid using foul language except where it fits the scene or the character and in YA I try doubly hard. I do feel a lot of time authors just use it out of shock value. That's a bit lazy as you can paint a similar picture without the use of those words. (In most cases) My proof readers in a lot of cases are my daughter, wife and mother-in-law which also helps curb the language for me :-)Even though my mother-in-law has no problem flinging out the F-Bomb when she sees fit.
Ok personally I think cussing is wrong, but that's not something I can control. On the contrary, it's a presentation of normal life and normal people. It's normal, especially in high stress situations. It happens all the time. So it doesn't annoy me, unless it's every other word and is just a lame way to show that a character is a "bad boy/girl". Obviously, like another commentor said, no one is going to be like "oh my goodness gracious me" when being attacked. It's just not realistic or representing of real life.
Personally, I prefer not having swear words but I gloss over them when present. But when it is almost on every single page?! Please ... Just don't.
And I agree. The writing seems to lose it's value.
I read the Martian by Andy Weir (a bit more of an adult book) and there was an f-bomb in every sentence. I don’t like that but I’m open to swear words every few paragraphs.
I think sometimes cussing is needed. I don’t cuss a lot but if ur writing a book about a motorcycle gang it’s a gimme that there’s going to be cussing.
I don't cuss, at all but I don't mind it in books.
Roxanne wrote: "Personally, I prefer not having swear words but I gloss over them when present. But when it is almost on every single page?! Please ... Just don't."Yes, totally agree.
If the swearing seems appropriate for the kind of book it is and the characters that it contains, then I understand why it's there, but I don't particularly enjoy reading it and I'm less likely to persist with a book that has constant bad language.
Hehe... I like it 😏😏😏... but only because I’m a kid and am not allowed to curse anyways. But I only like it if it has something to do with the book. It’s kinda lame if they just through in a bunch of cusses and it’s like a happy scene with good characters. I only think it’s appropriate if it’s a sad or mad scene with a character that needs to use that word.
I don't mind it. Since the characters in the books I read swear pretty often, I'm used to it by now, so it doesn't affect my opinion of the book.
if there is mild swearing, I don't mind, but if every single sentence has swear words in it, I probably won't finish the book because it ruins my picture of the characters and it just doesn't make me feel good.
I don't like swearing in any book that I read, especially when it shows up constantly. It doesn't mean that I won't read these books, and skip over it, but it can become distracting. I agree with what's been said in many of the previous posts that many young adults use this language, but I also know many young adults who don't. In my experience it's just as realistic for me to read about teenagers who don't swear as it is to read about teenagers who do. Maybe it comes back to the question: does art imitate reality or does reality imitate art? I don't have the answer to that, but in my writing I portray the reality of young adults who don't swear or those who get creative to avoid it. As an English teacher, I like to say there's a whole world of words out there that go beyond four letters.
Words are words, and people swear. I have indeed seen quite a bit of swearing in books, and I have grown used to it. The problem is when racist or sexist slurs are used in situations where it isn’t made clear that they are bad things to say.
I find profanity for profanities sake distasteful, but if used correctly/ in an appropriate situation it's fine.
Bad language doesn't throw me off, and sometimes it just matches the situation very well. Although I hate when authors use excessive cursing, because it makes the character seem too cocky and trying too hard. But overall I don't mind it and sometimes find it is necessary.
I really don't mind......... I realized that I didn't honestly mind when I thought about it because a few of my absolute favorite books , books which I felt were perfect in every sence of the word had cursingBooks like red, white and royal blue and House of earth and blood
Ok. I've gotta mention this here. If you've read Ember in the ashes, you'd know what I'm talking about. It's not bad language. The SAME swearing words used. Like how many times do you have to use the word 'skies' ? I really got irritated by this. Dosent Sabba Tahir get any other swearing words to write? Only 'bleeding hells', 'skies', 'bleeding skies'. Like could you please use language that is NOT related to skies please?
I find a problem when it is used in young adult books for shock value, rather than to further the plot or increase the understanding of characters. It is almost as if publishers are pushing YA authors to put the F word in their books at least once in order for them to get published.
I’m not a fan of swears in a book, but if used only occasionally, I won’t set a book aside because of them. I prefer YA books, which typically have less swearing, though that’s not why I prefer them. It’s not a deal breaker unless swears are used like punctuation, as long as the book has a compelling story or great characters.
Although I don't like it, little bit of profanity in YA makes it realistic. But often it spoils the language of the book when used excessively. Also, I am totally against words which condemn a particular race/ religion/creed.
I think that in everyday life these words are used all of the time and having them in the books that I read makes no difference to me. Everywhere I go I hear people swearing I have become immune to it, it is part of my vocabulary now. When I read books that have swearing in them, used in the right context, I feel like I can relate further with them because its the language that I use and hear throughout my life :)
I don’t know why but for me I usually don’t care as long as they don’t swear all the time but if it’s a book that’s more New Adult than I’m fine with a bunch of swearing. It might just be that in NA books i kinda expect it? I don’t know
Addicted to YA
Books mentioned in this topic
Tomorrow, When the War Began (other topics)Illuminae (other topics)
Marked (other topics)
Tiger's Curse (other topics)
Marked (other topics)
Also, sometimes authors use lots of cussing to make the characters "cool," but it usually backfires, like in Marked.
The opposite problem also happens, like in Tiger's Curse, where you have a modern teenager saying things like "you scared the stuffing out of me" and "I'm acting so twitterpated!" So it really depends on how good the author it, ex. Rick Riordan usually makes his books clean, but it isn't too obvious.