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Harkness, Deborah; Shadow of Night (All Souls Trilogy #2) -Buddy Read- Start Date August 19 2013 **REVISIT** Date June 19, 2018
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I liked your comment about toilet paper. I hadn't even thought about that! lol!
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You're right about the diary, it was a bit epilogue-ish. I hope more is given about it in this book
@JoLene - true! I just looked up wearh and apparently in old english it meant criminal, reprobate, felon or monster, evil-spirit
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Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado
(last edited Aug 21, 2013 09:46PM)
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Chapters 11-14
19. I was shocked with the scene in the haybarn until Philippe's motives became more obvious. What did you think? Predictions on the hereditary "blood rage" and how that may play a part in the book?
20. This part of the book just kept surprising me. Did you expect Diana to kill Andre Champier? Did your feelings towards Philippe change as he set up this whole scenario?
21. The third wedding for Diana and Matthew! I think that averages one per week that they have known eachother haha. Philippe makes Diana part of the family and also takes her to the temple dedicated to Diana. Do you beleive he will protect her now as fiercely as Matthew does?
22. I really enjoyed the descriptions of this wedding and the banquet, and later the "Christmas" festivities and games. Did you? I have the feeling Harkess is really passionate and enjoying bringing this time period to us.
23. Diana and Matthew finally consumate their marriage. Did you like the "honeymoon" period they were able to have?
24. Another glimpse to the future talks of a manjasang born of a witch. It also seems to have given Ysabeau some closure. How did you feel about this look into the future?
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Examples of 16th century French clothing. Imagine Diana and Matthew looking like this!
A few examples of women's clothing:
There was a great UK show called The Suprsizers Go and The Supersizers Eat where they lived and ate in a certain time period. They did the Elizabethan periods which gave me some mind images and context for the banquet scene. You can watch the episodes on you tube if you haven't seen them before. They are great!
JoLene’s Questions & Lisa Kay’s Answers for Chapters 8 – 10
Lots of stuff to talk about :-D
12) The return to Le Sept Tour is quite different than the Diana’s first trip there to meet Ysabeau. Diana is also finally beginning to understand the stature of the de Clermont family. Was Philippe what you expected?
A little, but not quite. He is a little gruffer and harsher than I was expecting.
13) The father-son dynamic apparently crosses over to vampire families as well :-D What do you think of Matthew’s complex relationship with his father? Is it a believable relationship?
Yes, I think so. Such long running dynamics.
14) Philippe clearly doesn’t approve of Matthew’s relationship with Diana, but he was willing to listen to her story (which cleverly provided a great recap of the first book). Do you think it was fair of Philippe to scold Matthew for bringing their troubles to the past? Do you think he will eventually accept Diana as Ysabeau did?
His listening to her story surprised me. I didn’t like him scolding Matthew. Although, he’s right: they are out of frying pan and into the fire. I’m not sure about the trust issue. I always suspect everyone of possibly turning one of them over to the Congregation – or worse: Satu Järvinen.
15) Philippe directly confronts Matthew about not consummating their marriage. Since this came up in our discussions, do you think that Harkness was using Philippe to voice the frustrations of readers from the first book. What did you think of this situation? Do you feel that they are married? What did you think about Matthew’s explanation regarding primal possessiveness?
Here I agree with Philippe. What in the world is taking Mathew so long? Still, I can see that being married to a vampire would be ‘restrictive’ – and that he loves her enough not to want her ‘spellbound’ again.
16) Diana decides to make herself at home in Le Sept Tour by doing research and also trying to learn to run the household. This seems like a daunting task to me --- is this something that you can imagine doing? What would be the hardest part?
It would be very daunting! She really hasn’t been trained to be a duchess. LOL! I do admire her, though. I love reading about the managing household stuff in Historical Romances. **shrugs** It fascinates me as modern housework never could. Probably working with the servants and maintaining my station (I’m too friendly for that era).
17) Matthew reveals a lot about his human life to Diana in the church. Why do you think that Ysabeau gave such a different account of his relationship with his first wife than Matthew?
Sounds like Matthew has changed a bit. When he was young he ‘took what he wanted’ and this probably is part of the reason for his delay in consummating his relationship with Diana.
18) The final big reveal is that Matthew was the one that actually killed Philippe after the Nazi’s had tortured him. Did you suspect this? Does this action fit into Matthew’s character?
I wasn’t completely surprised by this; there was some subtle hint in the first book, but I can’t remember what. Maybe the amount of guilt Matthew felt? But, yes, I can see him taking on this burden so Ysabeau wouldn’t have to. It was all very ironic, given what Philippe said to Matthew about trying to end his life.
19. I thought the scene was shocking as well -- but we have always known that Matthew had a serious temper, so I saw this more as an explanation of past behavior vs the future. Although now that we know Matthew will be more possessive of Diana after they "do the deed", I wouldn't want to be the creature that tries to harm Diana.20. I agree that the entire section in Le Sept Tour was surprising at every turn. I have a grudging respect for Philippe as I feel that he values his family and is willing to do anything to protect them. (even if he doesn't have a high opinion of women). I think that this episode is a turning point in his and Diana's relationship. I think the most disturbing thing was that Matthew drank from him just after :-(
21. Hadn't thought of the one wedding per week ---- but at least they got a honeymoon with this one :-D I think that taking Diana to the temple was a way for Philippe to share a small part of himself with her and also demonstrate further that she is part of his family now. I really like how Harkness is weaving in different types of religious beliefs --- like Philippe celebrating all of the "holidays".
22. Totally agree --- and enjoyed this as well. It was a nice respite from the non-stop revelations of the previous days.
23. Yes --- honeymoons are good :-D
@Karen --- love all the photos of the dress of the period. I was trying to find out what a night rail was as it was referred to several times, but I mostly got pictures of trains :-D
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Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado
(last edited Aug 21, 2013 10:33PM)
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It is hard to imagine Matthew being any more possesive - I guess we shall find out!
I looked up night rail, and I can't find an image, but I did come across this description:
"a cape of lawn, holland, silk or satin falling to the waist or hips worn before dressing, or after undressing"
6) Between the members of the School of Night arguing over how to help Diana to Matthew needing to “buy a beard” and the James Bond reference, I am finding this book much funnier than the first one, are you?I think it is funnier because modern ideas are being juxtaposed with historical attitudes. Without the contrast between two time periods, the last book did not have nearly as many opportunities for misinterpretation or confusion.
7) Matthew decides to bring a local healer and reputed witch, the Widow Beaton, in to teach Diana about witchcraft, but the meeting doesn’t go well. What do you think about Diana’s new “powers”? Do you think something happened to her while time walking?
I think it may have affected her powers. We don't really know all she is capable of since she had been spellbound.
8) The arrival of Gallowglass brings several surprises. I think that Diana was much more forgiving than I would be to many of these revelations? Do you think that Diana’s feelings for Matthew will change as she learns more about his 16th century persona?
Everyone has a past that has to be accounted for. Matthew just has a much longer one, so I think Diana will initially not like things she learns, but her feelings won't change in the long run because the past has made him what he is in the present.
9) What did you think about the revelation that Matthew was also a spy for Queen Elizabeth? Do you think he is acting as a double agent since he is French and catholic. Which was more shocking – that he is a member of the congregation or a spy?
I think it was more shocking that he was a member of the Congregation. There had been hints before that he had been involved in shady ways with the politics of the world.
10) Philippe thinks Matthew is dead because the 16th century Matthew disappeared (in front of people’s eyes) when the 21st century Matthew appeared. Do you think Matthew made the right decision to take Diana with him? Do we think that we’ve seen the last of Kit after Matthew “kicks” him out?
He definitely made the right decision to take Diana with him. I don't think we've seen the last of Kit, and he could cause much more trouble if Diana stayed nearby without Matthew's protection.
11) The final chapter is back in the present in Seville – did you find that jarring? Overall what are you impressions of the first section?
I was confused at first because that chapter seemed out of place except that it brought Diana's book into the future. I am enjoying the book so far.
Chapters 8-10Lots of stuff to talk about :-D
12) The return to Le Sept Tour is quite different than the Diana’s first trip there to meet Ysabeau. Diana is also finally beginning to understand the stature of the de Clermont family. Was Philippe what you expected?
He was a little better than I expected. I had a much more mean-tempered person in mind. He is still domineering and definitely in charge, but I get the sense that he has a deeply caring side.
13) The father-son dynamic apparently crosses over to vampire families as well :-D What do you think of Matthew’s complex relationship with his father? Is it a believable relationship?
I was starting to feel sorry for Matthew. He is being pulled in so many directions, and having to remember when he is in what situation. It is a believable relationship because he wants the approval of his father, but he wants to be able to do what he wants and not just follow in his father's footsteps or be at his father's beck and call.
14) Philippe clearly doesn’t approve of Matthew’s relationship with Diana, but he was willing to listen to her story (which cleverly provided a great recap of the first book). Do you think it was fair of Philippe to scold Matthew for bringing their troubles to the past? Do you think he will eventually accept Diana as Ysabeau did?
It is what a father does. Plus he has a lot of people to care for and has to think of them as well. I think he will eventually accept Diana as Ysabeau did.
15) Philippe directly confronts Matthew about not
consummating their marriage. Since this came up in our discussions, do you think that Harkness was using Philippe to voice the frustrations of readers from the first book. What did you think of this situation? Do you feel that they are married? What did you think about Matthew’s explanation regarding primal possessiveness?
I feel they are married. But Philippe definitely brings up issues I have been wondering about. I think Matthew's reaction and explanation is based form his previous experience with marriage and family.
16) Diana decides to make herself at home in Le Sept
Tour by doing research and also trying to learn to run the household. This seems like a daunting task to me --- is this something that you can imagine doing? What would be the hardest part?
I can imagine doing this. I would love to be able to order other people around to do my housework for me. I would be able to get a lot more reading in during the day.
17) Matthew reveals a lot about his human life to Diana in the church. Why do you think that Ysabeau gave such a different account of his relationship with his first wife than Matthew?
People have different perspectives and there is no way she could have known what his emotions were. Outsiders looking in can not see the little details.
18) The final big reveal is that Matthew was the one that actually killed Philippe after the Nazi’s had tortured him. Did you suspect this? Does this action fit into Matthew’s character?
I did not suspect this at all, but I think it does fit into Matthew's character.
19. I was a little surprised by this. It certainly explains why Matthew insists on being in control all the time though. It also explains why he is a little stand-offish. 20. OMG! I was so shocked by this whole scene. I was a little angry at Phillipe at first but after thinking about it for a bit I realized that he does have the responsibility to protect his family and he had to make sure that Diana was going to be loyal to them.
21. Yes. I think that Philipe really have a lot of respect and love for Diana now and really sees her as part of his family.
22. Yes. I loved the Christmas festivities.
23. Yes! Who doesn't love a honeymoon?
Karen thank you for posting for those pictures!
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@Leslie - I was completely shocked too! I understand why Philippe did it, but wow.
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Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado
(last edited Aug 22, 2013 10:19PM)
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Chapters 15 – 17
25. We return back to London and Blackfriars. There are so many references to historical figures it makes my mind swim! Are you researching them as you read? Here is the link for John Fian and Agnes Sampson.
26. It seems that Matthew did not properly consider the time period (with all these witch trials!) before bringing Diana. Do you think it is just because he didn’t really take much notice of it when he lived through the period? Or is the combination of Diana and Matthew just more noticeable to others than they anticipated?
27. Conceptico! It has occurred and now they are possibly in even more danger. Do you agree with Matthew that they need to get back to their own time fairly quickly?
28. Do you think Mary Sidney will end up helping Diana? She seemed happy enough to turn a blind eye to the bee and snake!
29. Matthew is keeping himself busy with his 16th century obligations and they are no closer to finding the manuscript, or a witch to help Diana! Did you agree with Diana’s decision to go shopping and “offer myself as bait” to other witches? Will John Chandler be the one to train her?
Chapters 8-1012) I kept (and admittedly, still keep) picturing Philippe as a rougher looking guy - big and hulking with a hint of evil in his stare. Instead we get Greek god? I'm sticking with my version. :)
13) The father-son relationship seems believable. I like that I'm not always sure what Philippe is thinking or how he feels. It seems natural that as guarders of many secrets they also keep emotions close to the vest. But it's clear he cares deeply for his family.
14) I loved the mini-recap! I think Philippe has a very valid point about their decision to come back with their troubles.
15) Honestly, I don't get Matthew's hesitation, and all of his reasoning makes no sense when consummation could solve so many problems. If he's so keen to protect her, why won't he do the one thing they both want to do and add that layer of security? And Diana's constant insecurity about it rings false to me. The whole situation is an eye-roller for me. I don't understand its point in the plot.
16) The hardest part about running the household would be having to order around servants! Ick.
17) I think Ysabeau recognized they were not her secrets to share - Matthew needed to be the one to share his relationship details and past with Diana. Also, she may not have known his true nature or feelings and only discussed her perspective.
18) I did not see that coming, but I think Matthew understands pain and wants to remove it from those he cares about. Diana was right - it was mercy.
Chapters 11-1419. It will be interesting to see if the blood rage comes back to haunt them when they have a child (which seems inevitable now). It was strange to picture the controlled Matthew in the grips of this crazy fit.
20. I thought it was bad decision-making for Philippe to bring Champier there knowing he probably wouldn't get out alive. Is this family just determined to create more problems for themselves?! I thought it was interesting that we never got to see much emotional reaction from Diana about killing him. I wonder if we will see ramifications from this later on.
21. Yes, I think Philippe has fully accepted her into the family and he, along with the rest of the household, will die to protect her.
22. I didn't really enjoy the wedding and holiday celebrations. While the information was interesting, it really slowed the pace too much for me. Like with the first book, the middle section of this one is kind of becoming a snoozer.
23. I wish this section had more of a Claire-Jamie feel to it. Outlander folks will get that. :)
24. It looks like the time jump will be a section ender each time, which works for me. I liked Ysabeau getting to hear from Philippe, but I'm nervous about this baby that Diana is surely carrying.
Mod
12. haha! I'm also a bit sad we said goodbye to him. I am hoping that through this time walking there will be a butterfly effect and he won't be captured by the nazis. Maybe I'm overthinking things!
15. I understand the "eye rolling". I'm not big on romance/love/sex scenes so I just kind of gloss over these bits. I think it is kind of funny that he is 1500+ years old and she is 33 and there is still that teenage quality to this part of the story!
19. True. perhaps that is why he is so controlled? He is always afraid of letting go
20. This reminded me that Diana is a witch and not human. I often forget that. I was very surprised she killed him and really didn't feel remorse. They have now killed 2 witches and 1 vampire (or was it 2?) between them. The de Claremont name can only protect them for so long surely?
22. I loved it...haha I am just really enjoying the descriptions much more in this one - I think because of the time period
25. I'm not researching them yet. I will when I finish reading the book. If I start to look too much into the historical figures that are mentioned I lose the flow of the story. 26. I think he didn't really notice them before. Well a combination of that and I don't think Matthew's memory is quite as good as he thinks it is.
27. Actually yes. Diana doesn't know if she has enough power to carry all three of them back to the present if they stay in the past long enough for her to have the child.
28. I don't know if she is going to help Diana but I see the two becoming good friends.
29. I think it was a good but a little bit reckless of her. She can't keep relying on the vampires to help her find a witch though. It didn't seem like John Chandler was too interested in helping her though.
I loved all the descriptions of historical London. I'm so fascinated by this period in history.
Karen’s Questions & Lisa Kay’s Answers for Chapters 11 – 14
19. I was shocked with the scene in the haybarn until Philippe's motives became more obvious. What did you think? Predictions on the hereditary "blood rage" and how that may play a part in the book?
Yup. I was pretty upset at first. Not sure, but I immediately thought of the ‘passing it on to any possible offsprings.’
20. This part of the book just kept surprising me. Did you expect Diana to kill Andre Champier? Did your feelings towards Philippe change as he set up this whole scenario?
Again, shocked. I had to stop the audio and re-read the scene. I felt I totally missed something. Yes.
21. The third wedding for Diana and Matthew! I think that averages one per week that they have known each other haha. Philippe makes Diana part of the family and also takes her to the temple dedicated to Diana. Do you believe he will protect her now as fiercely as Matthew does?
LMBO! I think you’re right! Well, third time’s the charm. I certainly hope so. Though, the only one I really trust is Matthew. Philippe can always get those jewels back after Diana is dead.
22. I really enjoyed the descriptions of this wedding and the banquet, and later the "Christmas" festivities and games. Did you? I have the feeling Harkness is really passionate and enjoying bringing this time period to us.
Yes, Harkness does a great job. Loved it, love the detail.
23. Diana and Matthew finally consummate their marriage. Did you like the "honeymoon" period they were able to have?
Yes! Finally!!
24. Another glimpse to the future talks of a manjasang born of a witch. It also seems to have given Ysabeau some closure. How did you feel about this look into the future?
I liked the scene with Ysabeau and Tabitha. LOL! I didn’t think I wanted to read it, but one I did, I really enjoyed it. Seems like ‘it was not my tale to tell’ is the De Clairmont Family motto.
From Deborah Harkness' Pinterest Board:hop barn
Fencing Doublet featuring a protruding peascod waist Western European about 1580 CE Leather silk linen cotton
Satin Gauntlet embroidered with silk and metallic thread, purl and spangles, trimmed with silk ribbon and silver-gilt bobbin lace… English c. 1600-1625
Corset late 16th century, © Castle Church Sarospatak, Hungary
The Layton Jacket
Ysabeau's ring
16th century
Speke Hall aka The Old Lodge bedroom
Mod
Love the pics! The ring is beautiful. Thank you for posting the pictures!
Found one more on DH's Pinterest board, when I got to that part of the book:Portrait of Mary Herbert née Sidney, Countess of Pembrooke,
by Nicholas Hilliard, c. 1590
I love Ysabeau's ring! And I always wanted a bed like that. My Shakespeare professor in college had an addition put on his house so he could build an Elizabethan bedroom. It looks just like that Old Lodge photo!Chapters 15 – 17
25. I had to stop reading the John Fian torture stuff at the Wikipedia page. *shudder* I hadn't heard of these witch trials, and all of the historical stuff is pretty cool, even if it is gruesome.
26. I don't know why Matthew is so ill prepared for this trip. It seems mostly innocent, and he probably just has forgotten much of it, but it does serve nicely as a plot element. :)
27. I absolutely think they need to get back asap. I keep thinking of The Time-Traveler's Wife and the miscarriages.
28. Mary Sidney seems like a good ally for Diana. She's noble and can provide protection and has the common interest in alchemy. I hope she lends some help.
29. I love Diana, but she is so stupid and reckless sometimes. When she marched down to St. Paul I wanted to facepalm myself.
Karen’s Questions & Lisa Kay’s Answers for Chapters 15 – 17
25. We return back to London and Blackfriars. There are so many references to historical figures it makes my mind swim! Are you researching them as you read? Here is the link for John Fian and Agnes Sampson.
Thanks for the link, Karen. Yes, I was dying of curiosity to see how they related to the story. I’d heard of the Berwick witch trials, but didn’t remember the specifics.
26. It seems that Matthew did not properly consider the time period (with all these witch trials!) before bringing Diana. Do you think it is just because he didn’t really take much notice of it when he lived through the period? Or is the combination of Diana and Matthew just more noticeable to others than they anticipated?
Man-oh-man! That’s an understatement! I think it is a combo.
27. Conceptico! It has occurred and now they are possibly in even more danger. Do you agree with Matthew that they need to get back to their own time fairly quickly?
Yes!
28. Do you think Mary Sidney will end up helping Diana? She seemed happy enough to turn a blind eye to the bee and snake!
I haven’t made up my mind yet. Possible. What a – lack of – reaction!
29. Matthew is keeping himself busy with his 16th century obligations and they are no closer to finding the manuscript, or a witch to help Diana! Did you agree with Diana’s decision to go shopping and “offer myself as bait” to other witches? Will John Chandler be the one to train her?
I would have thought – since she calls herself a fast learner – that she would have learned something from the Widow Beaton incident!!! I’m with Logan – facepalm! Hmmm… maybe JC will be willing to teach her. I’m inclined to say so. I hope he can be trusted.
Questions 22 AugustChapters 11-14
19. I was shocked with the scene in the haybarn until Philippe's motives became more obvious. What did you think? Predictions on the hereditary "blood rage" and how that may play a part in the book?
I thought it was their way of keeping up their skills at the beginning. I loved the way it ended in Philippe accepting Diana into the family.
20. This part of the book just kept surprising me. Did you expect Diana to kill Andre Champier? Did your feelings towards Philippe change as he set up this whole scenario?
I was not expecting Diana to kill him. I was actually expecting Diana to figure out a way to avoid his probing, but still end up being taught by him. I still like Philippe.
21. The third wedding for Diana and Matthew! I think that averages one per week that they have known eachother haha. Philippe makes Diana part of the family and also takes her to the temple dedicated to Diana. Do you beleive he will protect her now as fiercely as Matthew does?
Yes. He will do anything he can for her because of his respect for her and her relationship with his son.
22. I really enjoyed the descriptions of this wedding and the banquet, and later the "Christmas" festivities and games. Did you? I have the feeling Harkess is really passionate and enjoying bringing this time period to us.
23. Diana and Matthew finally consumate their marriage. Did you like the "honeymoon" period they were able to have?
It was a fun break from the stress of their mission and I think they needed it. They had to have some kind of opportunity to get the child the book has been hinting at for awhile.
24. Another glimpse to the future talks of a manjasang born of a witch. It also seems to have given Ysabeau some closure. How did you feel about this look into the future?
I would like to know a little bit more about what the others are doing back in the present while Diana and Matthew are traveling around in the past. There are bound to be little things that have changed even if they did not affect major events. What happened to the past Matthew? Exchanged places?
Baynard's Castle - where Diana goes to visit Lady Pembroke
Blackfriars circa 1540 - map showing St Pauls church yard, Baynard Castle
Karen and Lisa Kay, fantastic pictures, thank you for posting them. I found this kind of illustrations extremely helpful while inserting myself into the story.
Mod
I love the descriptions too. Such a fascinating point in time
@LK
20. yes I can imagine re-listening to the audio at that point ; I had to re-read it!!
24. True, that does seem to be their motto
25. Yw. Seems that Agnes' death was quite humane by comparison
@Turtlecollector
24. I agree. And I think their time walking is going to have huge consequences
All caught up and ready for tomorrow(or later today since it is 1:15 am for me)Questions 23 August
Chapters 15 – 17
25. We return back to London and Blackfriars. There are so many references to historical figures it makes my mind swim! Are you researching them as you read? Here is the link for John Fian and Agnes Sampson.
I haven't been looking them up. Kind of like when a movie changes from the book and I spend time complaining that they didn't stay close enough to what the author wrote. I don't want to be picking apart the historical facts that were embellished or left out. I am enjoying the book as itself with enough knowledge that the general setting is accurate to what would be happening in the time period.
26. It seems that Matthew did not properly consider the time period (with all these witch trials!) before bringing Diana. Do you think it is just because he didn’t really take much notice of it when he lived through the period? Or is the combination of Diana and Matthew just more noticeable to others than they anticipated?
I don't think he completely thought it out, but he wanted to go where he would have a lot of support from his friends and access to witches who could potentially help Diana. I also think they underestimated the effect the combination of themselves would have on the community.
27. Conceptico! It has occurred and now they are possibly in even more danger. Do you agree with Matthew that they need to get back to their own time fairly quickly?
Yes, I think they need to get there before using the magic could potentially alter the baby. I also predict the baby will start affecting her magic more as it grows.
28. Do you think Mary Sidney will end up helping Diana? She seemed happy enough to turn a blind eye to the bee and snake!
I think she will be helpful behind the scenes, but not openly help them.
29. Matthew is keeping himself busy with his 16th century obligations and they are no closer to finding the manuscript, or a witch to help Diana! Did you agree with Diana’s decision to go shopping and “offer myself as bait” to other witches? Will John Chandler be the one to train her?
I liked that she went out by herself, although at times I wanted to tell her to get back home and not put herself in so much danger. She has already had bad experiences of witches turning against her, but it doesn't seem to be slowing her down at all.
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 18 – 21
30. Eep! Father Hubbard is a piece of work isn’t he? Why doesn’t he know Diana’s baby is Matthew’s? Though a vampire, will the fact that he also rules over witches and deamons come into play, too? What did you think of Diana’s request of him?
31. And Kit is back, however briefly! Comments.
32. Do you think Mary and Diana’s alchemical experiments will come to fruition? Will they generate the philosopher’s stone, or discover something else all together different?
33. No surprise; Annie is a spy. Will she stay loyal to Father Hubbard, if she should have to choose sides? Or will Diana and the de Clermont’s household kind staff win her over?
34. And, yet again, they can’t start trying to find Ashmole 782 nor about Kit and the silver chess piece! Still, what will be the ramifications to the future because of what Matthew and Diana are doing in the past? Or aren’t they changing much?
35. Why does Annie’s Aunt Suzanna look like Sophie? Is it really just because Sophie’s her decedent? Or is there another reason? If you were Diana, would you want her to help deliver your baby? Will she tell other witches about Diana’s ability?
36. By the way, what do you think the amber and blue lights in the corner of Diana’s eyes are?
37. What did you think about the encounter between cautious Phoebe and rakish Marcus at Sotheby’s?
38. Did you trust Goody Alsop when you first heard she’d been called? What did you think about her saying she’d been waiting a long time for Diana? That Diana was a weaver of spells. That certainly goes with Diana ability in calling Ashmole 782. (BOOK QUOTE: “It begins with absence and desire…”) And the reasons the other witches have been so hostile towards her! Whoa. And her parents spellbinding her. Comments.
39. What do you think will happen when Diana is called before the elders of the Rede?
More images DH's Pinterest board.
DH posted this quote with this pic: “Here take my Picture; though I bid farewell, Thine, in my heart, where my soule dwells, shall dwell. ‘Tis like me now, but I dead, ‘twill be more When we are shadowes both, than ‘twas before." ~ John Donne
Diana
30. OMG! How creepy is Father Hubbard? He is one freaky dude. Just because some of the vampires can smell when a witch is pregnant that doesn't mean they can who the father is. At this point no one is thinks that a witch and vampire can have a child together. So the natural assumption would be that someone else is the child's father. 31. Kit has got to be one of the most irritating characters in this book. For someone who claims to love Matthew he sure isn't very loyal to him.
32. Idk. I can't figure out what role Mary Sidney will have in the story yet.
33. I think that Diana and Matthew will be so kind to the girl that she will be loyal to them. She was only helping Hubbard out of fear I think.
34. Of course they are going to affect the future. Even if only in small ways. It might not have much of an impact though.
35. I don't know what to make of Susanna yet. I do think that the resemblance is only because Sophie is her descendent though.
36. Well Goody Alsop said that is was time calling Diana home so I imagine that is what it is.
37. I thought it was cute.
38. OMG! This whole section of the book was just fascinating to me. I can't wait to see the ramifications that Diana being a weaver will cause. Plus it explains so much!
39. I honestly don't know. I hope that she catches a break and the rede will decide to go with Goody Alsop's plan but everything is always so up in the air in this book.
@ Leslie#30 – I know, right? Eww!
#33 – This is what I’m hoping, too!
#34 – Yes, I would think they have to, too. I just wonder if we’ll have to wait to see until the third book.
#36 – I wonder…
#37 – Ditto! LOL!
#38 – It does explain a lot.
#39 – Very true.
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Answers to LK's questions
30. He is very creepy! It also showed me the influence of the DeClaremont family that they are "exempt" from his family
31. I agree with Leslie on this. I wish Harkness would do something with him. It seems off Matthew is still tolerating him
32. I hope they find something to explain how Diana and Matthew can have a child. Perhaps it all leads back to Ashmole 782?
33. I think she will do what she has to to keep Hubbard happy, but not betray anything important
34. I can't help but think they are changing the past a bit too much. I am wondering if Ashmole 782 will actually be something that they contribute to and that is why it came to her in book 1. I know that is a paradox, bt it is like Dr Who says - time is wibbly wobbly!
35. I'm guessing it is a family resemblance. She doesn't have much choice but to rely on her help I think
36. A concern!
37. It was intresting. I wonder if these little tidbits will all be tied up in book 3 somehow
38. It explains alot doesn't it? This is why I think the whole time walking has an impact on the future because it enables people to "see" what will happen in the future (which of course is the past...haha)... I think Good Alsop will be a big help
39. She just seems to be getting more and more "publicity". I don't like it.
@ Karen#32 – I’m betting it does!
#34 – Oh! I hadn’t thought of that. Clever, you!
#38 – Yes, I believe you’re right about GA.
#39 – Yeah, that can’t be good.
Daily life in England during the Elizabethan-era.
Men's clothing in Elizabethan England.
"I saw her coming from the forest," he whispered, "Huntress of myself, beloved Diana." Matthew, quoting (in Discovery of Witches) from The Heroic Enthusiasts: An Ethical Poem, Second Dialogue, Giordano Bruno and L Williams. - Notice the hound?
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 18 – 21 30. Eep! Father Hubbard is a piece of work isn’t he? Why doesn’t he know Diana’s baby is Matthew’s? Though a vampire, will the fact that he also rules over witches and deamons come into play, too? What did you think of Diana’s request of him?
I don't like him. He seems to want to be the Congregation all in one person, while at the same time not wanting to have anything to do with the Congregation. I thought it was a little odd that after saying she didn't want help finding a witch, she asked him for help.
31. And Kit is back, however briefly! Comments.
I am starting to wish he would disappear completely. He always seems to be getting them in trouble.
32. Do you think Mary and Diana’s alchemical experiments will come to fruition? Will they generate the philosopher’s stone, or discover something else all together different?
I'm not sure, but it is fun to read about them trying.
33. No surprise; Annie is a spy. Will she stay loyal to Father Hubbard, if she should have to choose sides? Or will Diana and the de Clermont’s household kind staff win her over?
I think she will still be a spy but not always pass along information right away like instructed by the witch.
34. And, yet again, they can’t start trying to find Ashmole 782 nor about Kit and the silver chess piece! Still, what will be the ramifications to the future because of what Matthew and Diana are doing in the past? Or aren’t they changing much?
I agree with Karen. I have also started wondering if Ashmole 782 is something that came about because of Diana's trip to the past.
35. Why does Annie’s Aunt Suzanna look like Sophie? Is it really just because Sophie’s her decedent? Or is there another reason? If you were Diana, would you want her to help deliver your baby? Will she tell other witches about Diana’s ability?
She will tell. She seems to be too easily influenced by her husband.
36. By the way, what do you think the amber and blue lights in the corner of Diana’s eyes are?
She is seeing all the threads of magic around her that she can weave together to make up her own spells.
37. What did you think about the encounter between cautious Phoebe and rakish Marcus at Sotheby’s?
Again, I had a little trouble deciphering we were back in the future until the miniatures were mentioned.
38. Did you trust Goody Alsop when you first heard she’d been called? What did you think about her saying she’d been waiting a long time for Diana? That Diana was a weaver of spells. That certainly goes with Diana ability in calling Ashmole 782. (BOOK QUOTE: “It begins with absence and desire…”) And the reasons the other witches have been so hostile towards her! Whoa. And her parents spellbinding her. Comments.
I have liked her since the very beginning. I think she will turn out to be very important as the book goes along, besides teaching Diana.
39. What do you think will happen when Diana is called before the elders of the Rede?
I'm not sure, but I have a feeling it won't be very good.
Rowan tree, called to tame a fire drake.
John Dee's house in Mortlake.
The exceptional arbor Dianae created using Diana's and Matthew's blood. - Missing the gold leaves and red fruit!
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 22 – 24
40. Oh, Father Hubbard has reappeared. I worry for both little Jack and Annie, as well as Diana. You?
41. What did you think of Mary’s “Diana’s Tree”? The dragon – or rather firedrake? - and what of the bird, that reminded Diana of the illustrations of the wedding of Ashmole 782?
42. Oh, no! Diana lost the babe. What was the meaning of her dream? Do you think someone had a hand in this? Was it Father Hubbard’s appearance? Or was Matthew right and the baby had a genetic anomaly?
43. Matthew was out with Kit? Why does Matthew tolerate him after what he did? Opiates in the blood! Is Matthew addicted?
44. What do you think of the requests for magic left on the stairs? Should Diana assist her neighbors?
45. A firedrake and a rowan tree? Both unions of opposites? Like Diana and Matthew? And Diana can transfer between worlds? Comments on all the happenings at the Rede gathering and Diana’s forespell? I thought of a lot of thing that Diana’s familiar would be, but not a firedrake! You?
46. The Huntress – wants Diana. And she’s wants her to make use of her life. How? What is the significance of whether she has her bow and arrows or not?
47. I laughed over that expensive mouse trap, did you?
48. But Gerbert! Eep! Do you think they will go to Prague to investigate Emperor Rudolf’s cabinet of curiosities?
49. Will this book, “Verum Secretum Secretorum,” be of any use at all?
50. And what of Diana having Mary put her blood in the solution of aqua fortis, silver and mercury? Oh, I knew they were going to need Matthew’s blood, too. Right? So, what now?
Not from DH's Pinterest board, but someone else's:The Ripley scroll on a door?! This could be in Mary's alchemy room...
Rilpey scroll - The Red Sea - Mary Sydney has these images painted on her lab walls.
From Deborah Harkness' Pinterest board:Joris Hoefnagel – Flemish Northern Renaissance Manuscript Illuminator, 1542-ca.1600
@ Turtlecollector#30 – Yes, I thought it strange, too. Unless she was just tired of the arguing and thinking, “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
#36 – Ah! Interesting.
#37 – I was lost, too. Of course Marcus talking on his cell phone to Ysabeau was a dead give-away.
Mod
Chapters 22-24
Answers to LK questions
40. Absolutely. I think Hubbard is going to be quite the villain in this book. I do like that Diana and Matthew have taken on their own little "family" though :)
41. This is still steering me to think that they contribute to Ashmole 782. But it may just be a red herring!
42. This was very sad and I was really surprised because all the signs have pointed to them having a baby. I started to wonder if it really was a miscarriage and somehow the baby is still there, but I guess they would sense that. I think it just may take a while for them to be able to have a viable child seeing it would be the first one born of a witch and vampire
43. Kit is annoying me. I don't think Matthew is addicted, but he clearly enjoys letting himself lose control
44. I don't think she really knows how to yet! It is a worry that is she ignores them her neighbours may turn on them
45. I was really surprised by the firedrake too. I really liked this scene and how we can start to see Diana becoming a "useful" witch!
46. I had forgotten about her "deal" to save Matthew until this point. It is pretty scary that she has sacrificed herself like that and he doesn't know it. I hope we find out soon what this all means
47. haha! yes! Just when I thought she was maturing a little ;)
48. That is a long way to travel in this time period. I guess it depends on if they decide to stay a bit longer now there is no baby. I'd love to read the descriptions of 16th century Prague :)
49. It must somehow. Ah - so many questions, not so many answers! When is book 3 being released? lol
50. Maybe this is part of a ritual that will enable them to not just conceive, but carry a child? These two seem to be so intertwined through destinty/fate that there must be a deeper significance
40. I think Hubbard is going to be trouble. I hope that he doesn't cause any for the children though.41. I don't know what to think. It was kind of a shock to me. It does seem to point to Matthew and Diana landing in the right time in history though doesn't it?
42. I have to say that because of personal experience that scene was really hard for me to read. I totally didn't expect it since all the signs point to them having a child. I don't know what to think of it. Maybe it was a genetic anomaly like Matthew said or maybe whatever magic helped them conceive was not strong enough yet to carry the child to term.
43. I think that Matthew has some misplaced affection for Kit that will one day cause him extreme pain. I do not think that Matthew is addicted. I think that he was trying to find a way to cope with his pain and losing control is how he chose to do it.
44. This is something she has to do delicately. She isn't skilled enough to help them yet but if she ignores the neighbors then they could easily turn on her. Especially in a time where witch hunts are apparently pretty prevalent.
45. I love the firedrake! It was a surprise but a pleasant one. I loved that scene! It was nice to finally see Diana get a feel for her magic.
46. I hope we find out what the Huntress wants. Diana must be pretty worried over what she could possibly want.
47. Yes!
48. I hope they go. It would be interesting to read the descriptions and see how Diana wades her way through yet another entirely new environment. I'm not sure they will go though. Diana would have to leave behind her magical training for a time to do that and I don't think she should take an extended break right when she is just discovering her powers.
49. I'm not sure.
50. Another thing that raises more questions then it answers. It does seem to point out that Matthew and Diana are meant to be together.
@Karen I wish I knew when the third book comes out! Maybe we can do another Buddy read when it does.
I just went to Harkness' website to see if there was information about the third book. There isn't much. There is no title yet but she said she is at the point where she is figuring out the title. Also it is tentatively coming out in 2014... Hopefully not too long into 2014.
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Definitely a buddy read when it is released :)
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Chapters 25-27
51. We meet William Cecil and Queen Elizabeth! I think I found this meeting more nerve wracking than the one with Philippe or even Father Hubbard. What did you think?
52.Edward Kelly is a daemon working on the Philosopher’s Stone and Matthew has been entrusted with getting him from Prague. Do you think they had any choice but to obey the Queen? How did you feel about Mary Sidney’s intervention to ensure Diana could go with him?
53. Back into current day and Gallowglass is in Warnambool and now has memories of Elizabethan Diana. it seems Verin deClaremont’s husband Ernst is a warmblood. What do you think are the instructions (warning?) that Philippe gave them?
54. I think my favourite part of the start of Part IV in Prague was the scene at night with Jack and Matthew. It seems that Matthew’s character is really developing in this book. Do you agree?
55. It seems that the Prague Emperor and his staff may make it quite difficult for Matthew and Diana to see the manuscript or Kelly. What would happen if they are not successful doing this Queen’s errand?!
Did you know....
If you don’t have time to follow all the links, I found this interesting tidbit on the wiki page for Rudolf:
Astrology and alchemy were mainstream science in Renaissance Prague, and Rudolf was a firm devotee of both. His lifelong quest was to find the Philosopher's Stone and Rudolf spared no expense in bringing Europe's best alchemists to court, such as Edward Kelley and John Dee. Rudolf even performed his own experiments in a private alchemy laboratory.
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51. Queen Elizabeth is scary! Lol. I thought that Matthew and Diana handled it very well. 52. I don't think they had a choice unless they want to go back to the present. I love what Mary Sidney did! She is such an awesome character.
53. I think Philipe told them to help when they were needed. I love that Gallowglass has been watching over Diana her whole life. I love seeing how more and more of De Cleremonts are not only accepting Diana into their family but growing to love her as well. What was up with Verin calling Yseabeu her step mother and Matthew her step brother? None of the other vampires have done that. She must not have much affection for her mother and brother.
54. I really liked that scene. It was so sweet and really makes me feel that if Diana and Matthew ever get the chance to have a child that he will make a good father. I wonder what they will do to ensure that Jack and Annie are looked after when they go back to the present? I mean they have to go back but they have these kids in their care. They can't just abandon them.
55. I don't know! I can't imagine that Elizabeth will let it go without some sort of punishment.
Answers to Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 18 – 21 30. Father Hubbard is definitely creepy! I think he will be quite the antagonist as we go further in this story.
31. Ugh, Kit! I didn't think he'd turn out to be so meddlesome and awful.
32. I don't know what they'll find with their alchemy, but I hope it's cool. Somehow I doubt they'll find the stone though - that would alter history quite a bit!
33. I keep thinking of Annie as Daisy from Downton Abbey. She's so meek and ignorant that at times she doesn't even realize the consequences of her actions. I hope that the nice treatment she's getting from Diana will win her loyalty.
34. I wonder if we're to take the future chapters as glimpses into how they are changing things. So far, they haven't been that impactful. The diary is still hidden and only noticed by a quiet clerk. The miniatures have been bought up by Ysabeau. It seems like they're keeping things pretty quiet.
35. The Susanna/Sophie link is pretty cool. I don't think her hesitation to help is malicious, so I still trust her. I can't blame her for wanting this mess off her doorstep.
36. I think the lights might be portals of some sort.
37. Marcus is quite a cad! I liked Phoebe's reaction where she couldn't believe she didn't slap him.
38. I love Goody Alsop! I hope Diana gets to train with her.
39. Somehow, I think nothing good will come of it. Let's hope Diana doesn't lose her cool and screw things up for herself!
Nothing But Reading Challenges
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Love the idea of witch jet lag or time-walker lag so to speak :-D
@Leslie --
I agree that I really like the vampire lore as well. I like that they have a family unit too vs just a maker. If you were immortal, it seems like it might be important to have some constant since those silly "warm-bloods" keep dying off.
One question (should have asked while I had the DQ baton) --- have you heard the term wearh before? In the audio, it sounds like were- as in werewolf. They often mention Matthew's wolf like tendencies and he did study them. Don't think it's connected, but just thought it was strange :-D