Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Format/binding question
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Sara ♥
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Apr 22, 2009 02:50PM
Otis! You're fast!! It's awesome!
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I prefer writing it out, myself. Just wanted to get a consensus though. = )
Only thought on adding it to the format - is it easier for someone to search on a format, than the words 'large print' in the title field?
Mod
Adding Board Book and MP3 - good suggestions. And glad you like my solution!
That was incredibly quick programming! Kuddos to whoever did it. It shouldn't take long and the data will start showing better consistency.
Wow! Thanks so much Otis & GR programmers!Can I make one teeny-tiny suggestion? On the Manually Add Books page, the format input box defaults to the free form input. Can we change it to default to the drop down box? It may save some librarian edits later.
Thanks again. :-)
I'm all for standardization. Makes things much much cleaner. :)I do have a couple questions about audio books however.
Audible does electronic download audio books. However these are not MP3's but audible's own secured file format. What would be the proper format to choose in this case?
Books in Motion does not offer downloads, but do their books in MP3 files on CD. I'm assuming MP3 is the proper format for this situation?
Rand0m1s wrote: "I'm all for standardization. Makes things much much cleaner. :)I do have a couple questions about audio books however.
Audible does electronic download audio books. However these are not MP3'..."
That's a good point. The issue arises from the fact that MP3s, much like Kleenex, are becoming the generic appellation for any electronic audio format.
One option is to have a much more generic "Audio file (MP3, MPA, etc.)" label. I don't think it's necessary to draw a fine distinction between the specific file format, since any media player worth its salt will play most common formats.
For the Audible books, I'd label them "MP3". For the Books in Motion, I'd label "Audio CD" if the CDs can be played in a CD player or "MP3" if they are only playable by a computer's media player.
This leads to a related question: where do we draw the line between generic bindings, such as "MP3" or "e-book" and proprietary bindings, such as "Kindle edition"?
Ben wrote: "For the Books in Motion, I'd label "Audio CD" if the CDs can be played in a CD player or "MP3" if they are only playable by a computer's media player...."All computers can play both audio CDs and MP3 files on CD. As far as CD players, some manufacturers have added the capability, some haven't. I'd be reluctant to base it on which hardware decides to support the format.
Personally I like the generic Audio file label (be it download, purchased on media like CD, etc), but I'm not very experienced in this area and prefer to see what experienced members think.
As far as ebooks, I also would be happy with a generic entry (such as ebook) but I do realize that some have argued that since Kindle uses ASIN that it should be its own.
For example:
Mistborn: The Final Empire
Secure Mobipocket - ISBN: 978-1-4299-1456-7
Kindle - ASIN: B0017098GO
(The amusing part is that secure mobipocket and Kindle are pretty much the same thing. Mobipocket is even owned by Amazon. :))
But then its possible to have two printings of a paperback (or hardback, etc) with different ISBN numbers. I personally would consider them parallel examples but again I would prefer to defer to the more experienced members.
I think it's essential to distinguish between ebook and Kindle editions. For ebooks I've usually been putting MultiFormat eBook, so that people know they can probably get the book in a format to suit them. Kindle editions should be Kindle editions, as there's no point looking at buying them without a Kindle. IMO :).
SF SQRL is right. I have a Sony, and mobipocket is worthless to me. I like to put MultiFormat eBook, so that way it covers all the formats.
SF SQRL wrote: "Kindle editions should be Kindle editions, as there's no point looking at buying them without a Kindle."I'm wondering though how long Kindle editions may be Kindle dependent. You can already use the iPhone and I recently read in the NYT that Amazon is currently working on bringing Kindle content to other mobile phones. So I guess my question is, do we really want focus on hardware when that dependency is already going away, and may not exist in the near future? At that point Kindle is really just another file format, such as mobipocket, ereader, Microsoft reader, etc.
At that point its really no different from buying an audio book from Audible (Audible is the only place you can buy audio books in their format).
Link for anyone who might be interested in the news about Kindle support for other mobile devices.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/tec...
Eh, Kindle may be available for the iPhone in the US, but there aren't even any Kindles in any other countries. So it's still a pretty restricted format.
Perhaps the solution then is to put the format as "ebook" (because that's technically its "binding") and put "Kindle edition" in parentheses in the title field, much as we would do with "World's Classics" editions and whatnot.
Hmm, I dunno--I spend a lot of time stripping extraneous bits out of the title field. Like "World Classics" frex!Maybe ebook (Kindle)
SF SQRL wrote: "Hmm, I dunno--I spend a lot of time stripping extraneous bits out of the title field. Like "World Classics" frex!"Which brings us to just another, semi-related topic of librarian differences.
Now, I am a purist. I only ever distinguish among editions using ISBNs, because I am a person who prefers talking to computers instead of real people, and so unique identification numbers are how I roll.
For those people not similarly gifted with my obsessive need for exactitude, I don't mind listing parenthetical information for the sake of specificity. In this case, the Librarian Manual specifically contains an example of this practice.
Thus, I'd prefer to keep formats/bindings as close to physical media (or in the electronic case, file format) as possible and differentiate among imprints elsewhere. Yeah, poor title field. It gets all the stuff the other fields are too stuck up to accept.
Sure, series information can go in parentheses; I do that myself. But format should go in the format box.Just my opinion :).
I'm not an ebook person myself, but isn't the main reason that 'Kindle' is listed as a format different from the generic 'ebook' is because it downloads to GR from Amazon that way? Meaning: can GR even change that when it is importing data?
Carolyn, I think you're right. I bet amazon would get cranky if GR just changed it to ebook too, seeing those editions is nice advertising for the Kindle.
This assumes Amazon would notice. I think they're still busy restoring rankings on all those "adult" books ;).
SF SQRL wrote: "This assumes Amazon would notice. I think they're still busy restoring rankings on all those "adult" books ;)."Ha!
They've been making some poor decisions/mistakes lately. Makes me super happy I went with a Sony instead of a Kindle.
I don't think Amazon would notice, like SQRL said, they've got bigger messes to deal with.I just meant, other than manual Librarian edits, can GR even overwrite/change the format, if it's importing the data as format=Kindle?
I love the new format- I noticed it yesterday and was shocked how quickly it was put it into action! One less thing to worry about now! :)
Yes the Kindle Edition comes from Amazon data. We could try to change those, but it's pretty clear what they are. For ebooks I like the idea of "ebook (epub)" or "ebook (pdf)" - but you could argue the specifics aren't necessary - particularly for books with multiple formats available, like all the ones we have from Feedbooks.
Otis, not to mention there are a gajillion formats (LRX, LRF, PDF, MOBI, TOPAZ, HTML, LIT, eReader, and so on and so on). I think if it went specific everyone is going to tear their hair out (especially if ebooks continue on their growth trend).
Otis wrote: "Yes the Kindle Edition comes from Amazon data. We could try to change those, but it's pretty clear what they are..."And that would be a pretty strong reason to keep Kindle as a separate format. :)
This is exactly why I suggested two different fields. One for format (paper/print, audio, ebook) and one for "binding" (ebook: Mobi, Kindle, eBook, etc). Multiformat eBook only works if the entry is actually associated with multiple formats. There is no guarantee someone won't start producing separate ebook formats with different ISBN's at some point.
This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: "This is exactly why I suggested two different fields. One for format (paper/print, audio, ebook) and one for "binding" (ebook: Mobi, Kindle, eBook, etc). Multiformat eBook only works if the entry i..."Some publishers are already creating different ISBNs for different eBook formats already. Specifically, Harper Collins has done this for all of their eBooks that I have seen. For instance Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien, as you click on the different formats the ISBN changes.
This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: "This is exactly why I suggested two different fields. One for format (paper/print, audio, ebook) and one for "binding" (ebook: Mobi, Kindle, eBook, etc). Multiformat eBook only works if the entry i..."I'm very supportive of this suggestion. Using a field for more than one purpose often creates chaos in the data and to some extent, that's what this seems to have. Perhaps it is that I don't have a clear understanding of what the ultimate purpose of the field is (besides storing information). That said, I still love the inclusiveness of the solution that has been put in place.
As a layperson, I can handle hardcover vs paperback vs audio and so can accurately participate on that level. Once it starts becoming more specific, it starts getting complicated and I find it harder to 'get it right'.
I just realized my original question never really got answered.For electronic audio books there are actually a number of different options available out there.
Audible and iTunes both use their own file formats.
The only option we have now for digital format is MP3. That isn't correct for Audible and iTunes since they are not MP3 files.
How should this be handled?
Use the other category and make it Audio XXXX as appropriate
There are so many types of audiobooks, maybe we should have an "Audiobook - Miscellaneous"-type category... Just a thought.
Is "graphic novel" a format or something that needs to be listed in the title field?
Graphic novels are often published as both paperback and hardcover, so it's not a unique identifier.
So, yes, if you need to indicate "graphic novel" to distinguish that version from a different version, that should go in the title.
Mod
Gotcha. The titles in question were already "different enough" to distinguish the book from the graphic novel, but I went and explicitly added (graphic novel) to all the ones missing that information.
Mod
All gone now.
Random wrote: "I just realized my original question never really got answered.For electronic audio books there are actually a number of different options available out there.
Audible and iTunes both use their ..."
I'm curious about this as well, as I'm in the process of uploading a couple of titles from Audible. I'm going to use MP3 until I see guidance to the contrary as before I was usually just inputting "audiobook digital".
What format did we finally decide would work for the playaway things? And in case I forget why I asked, I'm posting the link to what I want to fix.Brother Odd
I know we've discussed this before, but I keep getting that 504 error message when I try to search the posts.
I have noticed that most Playaway books are set to "Unknown Binding" or "Other Format" is there any chance there is going to be a "Playaway" format added at any point?
Mod
Oh didn't realize that was a type-in box. My apologies. Thank you!
