The business of making it in this business

[Kelly]

For any willing to share, how do you know if you are successful at this? I know we have best seller lists, but we can't all be on them. Just wondering if anyone would like to share how many copies they sell of their book per week, when it slows down (I've only been doing this for a month and a half), what has worked for them as far as marketing goes etc. The more information the better. I'm still learning! What's the average number of copies that go out per week either Kindle or paperback is what I'm really wondering.

[Amanda]

My book's been out for a little over a month. I've sold a grand total of 8 copies...I've done several author interviews, taken blogs up on free promotions, have a website, a Facebook, a Twitter, Amazon page and Goodreads page. I've also given away a few copies for review and taken part in a review trade off group for reviews. I also dropped the ebook copy from $5 to $2.99.

Most of my success right now seems to be in that there are 50 people with my book listed in their Goodreads shelves.

[[deleted user]]

It's very hard to get people's attention. I haven't found one way or another to gain more readers, although this website works very well. My book has been out for 4 months and I have sold about 30 copies (both paperback and kindle, although kindle is more popular) Using the KDP select free promotion, however, I gained over 400 readers. The important thing when your book is first out is to gain readership so I suggest enrolling in KDP select on amazon so you can use the free promotions (5 every 90 days). It helps a lot. I found that most of my sales happened in the few days after a free promotion

[Michael]

Selling 8 copies of your first book in the first month is actually good going. That's more than many other indie authors might sell in half a year.

To try and get concrete stats for this is practically impossible. Not even the professionals can do it with any kind of certainty.

Amanda has done the right things but you have to realise what you're up against. Although you might do six interviews on six different blogs, in the grand scheme of things that's barely even a squeak of exposure. The more established authors can simply go onto Twitter and say "I just farted" and they'll have thousands of replies asking when the next book is out.

The price of the book makes very very little difference, unless you're trying to flog it for £989902394.

[Sharon]

Kelly wrote: "For any willing to share, how do you know if you are successful at this? I know we have best seller lists, but we can't all be on them. Just wondering if anyone would like to share how many copies ..."

Success is a difficult thing to measure. For some, that means getting on a best-seller list. For others, that means getting the book out there.

Please consider reading The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing; author Sarah R. Yoffa talks about this issue in detail.

[Sharon]

Amanda wrote: "My book's been out for a little over a month. I've sold a grand total of 8 copies...I've done several author interviews, taken blogs up on free promotions, have a website, a Facebook, a Twitter, Am..."

That's pretty good, actually. The average indie book only ever sells about 100 copies over its lifetime, according to Mark L. Coker of Smashwords; 8 in a month is outstanding.

[Sharon]

S.K.N. wrote: "It's very hard to get people's attention. I haven't found one way or another to gain more readers, although this website works very well. My book has been out for 4 months and I have sold about 30 ..."

Caveat to KDP-S advice; please be advised that you are deliberately leaving out a good deal of your potential audience. Nook is a large part of the US market, and the most popular reader abroad is Kobo. If you opt into KDP-S, it's important to know that you're neglecting potential readers in the ePub market.

At the end of the day, each person will run their business as he or she sees fit. It just doesn't make any sense to *this* particular author to put all of her eggs in one basket.

[Amy]

Oh boy... success. I think there are multiple threads on this subject.
So, here's what I've done...
My book has been on Amazon since March 2. Since then I've had approximately 4,000 downloads. HOWEVER, the majority of those were on a free promo weekend over Easter. I think I've had about 150-200 actual ebook sales and about a dozen paperback sales.
The very BEST way to get your book noticed is to offer a free promo on Amazon. Over Easter weekend, my book was downloaded over 3,000 times and it hit #7 in Women's Fiction and #9 in Contemporary. I then had steady sales of about 10 per week. Last week it was only 7.
I'm still trying to get blogs to review it so that the word can spread, and I have 1 free promo day left to use through Amazon (they give you 5 in the first 90 days). People say to choose a Sunday (they're supposed to be the best day for sales).
Starting your own Wordpress Blog, Twitter, Tumblr, etc. can also help you (but I think you've already done that. Posting original ideas and smart hash-tagging will get you random Google hits, too. Giveaways, events, working with review blogs for cover reveals, etc. can all go a long way. I've heard it takes SEEING the title of a book 10 times before someone actually considers buying it.

[[deleted user]]

Sharon wrote: "S.K.N. wrote: "It's very hard to get people's attention. I haven't found one way or another to gain more readers, although this website works very well. My book has been out for 4 months and I have..."

I have heard that frequently. Unfortunately because I published with create space, amazon does not allow me to publish on any other site for ebook copies. The KDP-S runs out in a few days and I have considered shutting down the create space account to publish on another website that isn't so strict about where I am allowed to publish my book. Do you have any suggestions of good websites for that? Paperback aside, since it seems to not sell as well

[Michael]

Your Create Space account shouldn't affect anything you do with your digital editions, I'm sure.

[Peggy]

Amanda wrote: "My book's been out for a little over a month. I've sold a grand total of 8 copies...I've done several author interviews, taken blogs up on free promotions, have a website, a Facebook, a Twitter, Am..."

I think you're doing great for the book only being out a month. I got to the point you're at with my first book after about a year.

[Kelly]

Amy, that's wonderful! I appreciate all the feedback guys. I've been doing it about a month and a half and had about 100 kindle sales and 30 or so paperbacks. The paperback count isn't right because of expanded distribution because of createspace and their weird rules, but they say they will release that number after so much time. I will never understand that. I haven't done any free giveaways besides the 10 for reviews.

[Darlene]

I agree with Amy -- repetition is a must. And tons of promotion! My biggest issue right now is that I sometimes feel like I'm caught in an endless cycle of authors promoting authors, blogging on sites that only authors look at, following authors, etc., rather than reaching a wider audience of readers and potential buyers.
Amy, could you share details of how you did the Amazon freebie? Are you in KDP Select? How did you logistically organize the freebie?
This summer I'm going to try a promotion with a completely different business and try to reach a new audience.

[[deleted user]]

Michael wrote: "Your Create Space account shouldn't affect anything you do with your digital editions, I'm sure."

They have in the terms of service that if your book is found in any edition on another website that your account will be closed. I guess they had trouble with that or they don't want other companies to gain their "traffic" so to speak.

[Michael]

Wait, so the Create Space ToS specifically state that you can't even sell a digital edition of your book on a site that isn't Amazon...?

[Amy]

Darlene wrote: "I agree with Amy -- repetition is a must. And tons of promotion! My biggest issue right now is that I sometimes feel like I'm caught in an endless cycle of authors promoting authors, blogging on si..."

Sure! So, I had three blogs that had already reviewed my book (and enjoyed it). So, I contacted them so that they could put the promotion on their sites (FB, Twitter, etc.). Then, I also contacted a few sites (like Pixel of Ink and other FREE promotional Kindle sites) via email to ask if they could list it as well for that weekend. I offered the promotion from Friday-Sunday and by Saturday afternoon I was #20 in Women's Fiction. I really do think I just got lucky, as I had never done anything like this before. The more exposure, the better. I blogged on my own site and Tweeted and posted on my FB page as well. Contact everyone you can think of: make a list of sites that offer information to readers on free promos and tell all your friends (personal and professional) to share the promo on their pages.
I think that's the only advice that I have. But, if I think of anything else - I'll let you know!

[[deleted user]]

Michael wrote: "Wait, so the Create Space ToS specifically state that you can't even sell a digital edition of your book on a site that isn't Amazon...?"

Yeah. Amazon is having "issues" with losing authors to other websites so they're kind of trapping us. I can delete the account, although its long and involved and I have to contact customer service by phone. I am sticking with it for now but I might publish my next book on a different website

[Carol]

Amy wrote: "Darlene wrote: "I agree with Amy -- repetition is a must. And tons of promotion! My biggest issue right now is that I sometimes feel like I'm caught in an endless cycle of authors promoting authors..."

Amy,
You offered some great tips. It is always difficult to get started. Thanks for sharing.

[Kelly]

Ok, so I really don't understand the createspace thing. They will give me the numbers when someone orders off Amazon and they print on demand. So how come they can't give me the numbers when the sales come off expanded distribution? Expanded distribution was $25 so that stores could order directly from them as well as libraries. I know of one store specifically that ordered 20 copies but that number is no where to be found. My local libraries just ordered from Amazon, but that is what the expanded distribution was supposed to be for. Why can't they give me that number is what I'm wondering.

[Kelly]

Also, want to know something else weird? If you went on Barnes and Noble.com, you could order my book, but I did not set that up. How did that happen? And with Amazon, why does it say 10 in stock? Do they have a few on hand or do they just say that and then get it printed on demand? I do not know how this works since they can get it out in two days. I wish I knew someone on the inside of Amazon.

[Amy]

Carol wrote: "Amy wrote: "Darlene wrote: "I agree with Amy -- repetition is a must. And tons of promotion! My biggest issue right now is that I sometimes feel like I'm caught in an endless cycle of authors promo..."

You're welcome! ;) I'm new to all of this, too. The book I mentioned above is my first. I rely on these threads for a ton of good advice. Most of mine is just regurgitated from other threads. :)

[[deleted user]]

Kelly wrote: "Also, want to know something else weird? If you went on Barnes and Noble.com, you could order my book, but I did not set that up. How did that happen? And with Amazon, why does it say 10 in stock? ..."

I'm not sure how they do it. I think they print as it is ordered but that seems inconvenient since they do bring it out so fast. Barnes and nobles probably bought several copies of your book to have in stock. I know another book company did the same with mine.

[Kelly]

I forgot to mention that if you guys are looking for a good marketing plan, mine is based on this woman. Her name is Laura Pepper Wu and she writes the "30 day books" She has amazing marketing strategies.

http://www.30daybooks.com/

[Judy]

Createspace does not prevent your book from being sold in other stores; in fact if you chose the Expanded Distribution, it goes to the Baker and Taylor catalog (or was it Ingram's? I can't remember) and any bookstore can order it.

What you may be referring to is KDP Select. In the SELECT program, your eBooks must only be sold on Amazon. It is this program (not Createspace) which allows the 5 free days per every 90 days. You can choose NOT to renew this program and offer your eBook on sites like Nook, Kobo, and Smashwords. It depends on how many sales you're getting on Amazon, and if you're also getting borrows, which you can only get in the Select program.

[Kelly]

What I am wondering with createspace is why they won't post those numbers from expanded distribution.

[Judy]

Kelly wrote: "What I am wondering with createspace is why they won't post those numbers from expanded distribution."

They do, though I suspect there is a delay. All sales are recorded and you can generate reports on them.

[Moira]

Judy wrote: "Createspace does not prevent your book from being sold in other stores; in fact if you chose the Expanded Distribution, it goes to the Baker and Taylor catalog (or was it Ingram's? I can't remember..."

I should have read further before going through the ToS with a fine-tooth comb. On the other hand, better to be informed! (But still. I now know more about uploading and re-uploading video content than I ever wanted to ... )

[Amanda]

Hmm I guess I should consider it a success then but it feels strange that such a low number could be so. I have a friend who has two books out and has sold about ten of each. One came out in March and the other in April. She doesn't do as much promotion as I have but she utilizes what she feels comfortable with.

I think part of the problem with my book is that it's cross genre. A strong romantic overtone with a lot of horror. This is why I went with gothic horror.

I've also been told the cover could play a part but then again this was from folks who saw it from the PNR market. What do you think? Does my cover say moody horror?

[Jennifer]

My book has been out for almost a year now and has only been available in print, but I am working on the eBook version. On average in a month I sell anywhere from 0-3 books, my most successful day so far was 7 books. This record has happened to me twice now. I haven't yet had any luck with people buying my book online, aside from a library system and one school teacher, but I physically have sold over 150 copies through the library and local craft and vendor shows. My local library isn't the library I have had any luck with, but the one in the next city over allows me to sell my books during all of the 4 libraries book sales which take place about once a month and is where I sell most often and is usually the most successful, although 1 out of every 3 craft and vendor shows usually result in sales and it was at one of these that I sold my record number of books for the second time in my books history.
Based on the fact that I am actually selling books and overall most people have liked it, I would say that I have been successful.

[Justin]

So many good points and experiences. My books been out around 3 weeks and I havent generated any sales but I know its still early. Ive been promoting like a madman to the point where I wonder if posting on certain places will even get through. I have no problems with CS or Amazon however the issue I have is should I give review copies out to people while still trying to promote? I would think yes and also since im only 3 weeks in should I consider going with my KDP option? Im just unsure If i should I mean people will download your book a lot more if its free but then after its not will you then generate sales? I guess the key here is to promote as best you can and take it step by step.

Its good to keep track of all you do to promote your book, keep a log and set your own pace. Sometimes I find myself totally burned out cause I dont know how to or where to promote, so its good to set a pace make a plan and just relax and have patience, as indie authors we know we are already on the outside and we gotta play it cool to get on the inside.

Making it in this business, is it about the money? Is it about how many books youve sold? Is it about how far your book ranks on Amazon and can be a best seller? Maybe not. Maybe being successful in the indie bussiness as an author is doing what you love which is to write, trying your best and knowing eventually youll reach some people and generate an audience an fanbase. Making it as an author isnt about becoming famous or the next Stephen King, its about taking your time, doing what you love and just taking it day by day.

[Shaun]

The thing with using KDP select's free days, is that a lot of people will download it just because it's free. That pushes it up higher in the ranks. The higher the rank, the more visible it is and people see the rank and think. "Hmm. Must be a good book." The thing is, after your book is no longer free, it is still higher up in the ranks and people who don't know it was just free see the ranking and are more likely to buy it then.

Of course, you still have to take things like cover art, title, description and search terms into account.

I believe I may have stumbled across a nice little tactic.

I had a guest post coming up on a blog for more well-known author. I set up a free-day for the day my post was scheduled to go up which was a Monday. I did alright on the free day with about 500 downloads, but my post didn't go up. I emailed the author and asked and we re-scheduled it for Friday of that same week. I hadn't planned on another free day so soon, but went ahead and made Friday free as well to coincide with my guest post. My downloads on Friday jumped to over 1000 and my ranking on Amazon's Horror e-books made it up to #205.

I think what helped was that I was still riding the wave from the first free day when I hit the second, as opposed to the guest post helping that much. I think further experimentation is in order though.

[R.A.]

Jennifer wrote: "My book has been out for almost a year now and has only been available in print, but I am working on the eBook version. On average in a month I sell anywhere from 0-3 books, my most successful day ..."

Thanks for those ideas, Jennifer. I hadn't thought to ask my library about selling during their sales. Now if I could only ever get my paperback up and running...

[Jennifer]

R.A. wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "My book has been out for almost a year now and has only been available in print, but I am working on the eBook version. On average in a month I sell anywhere from 0-3 books, my mos..."

Depending on your library you will probably either need to talk to the head of the library or whoever is in charge of the friends of the library. For me, at the library I sell at, it is the friends of the library who are in charge of the book sales and actually I never asked if I could sell at the library, a couple of the librarians there had known about my book before it was ever a book and when it was published, they came up with the idea to let me sell at the book sales, which is working out really well for several reasons. The first of which is that the friends of the library have all read and liked my book so even though I am there to sell and sign books, they mention it to everyone they see buying similar books or books for the same age level as mine are. This means I have a little bit of reader promotion on my books. It also doesn't hurt that even when I don't sell anything, it doesn't cost me anything to be there. I had already donated a book when I started selling at the book sales so as a thank you I also joined the friends of the library as a lifetime member and help out with the setting up, selling, organizing and other matters involved in running the book sale. It is also a good way to get my books and name out there, in a way that a book signing never would. Having book signing events are good for an author who has enough fans for one, but don't do much for those who have no idea who I am.
My local library, not the one I sell at, was not helpful at all. Although a few librarians have been trying to get the head to allow me to do some kind of event, so far the only thing I can do there is donate a copy of my book, wait to see if it circulates, and if it does they might consider buying copies. Once again the problem of no one knowing me comes up and at the time I didn't feel it would be worth donating a copy to them yet.
So, what you can see is that I have had two completely different results from two libraries, so while hopefully your library will support your book and allow you to sell, even if they won't, if you have another library you can try that might also be worth checking out.
Another thing I did that has worked out really well as far as selling my books is that I joined a networking group. Not only have I sold to group members, but they have helped me find good craft and vendor fairs to sell at and for the first time, my networking group is trying out having our own vendor fair. The group has been really amazing for making new business connections and friends as well, so if you haven't and have a networking group of some kind in your area that might be worth checking out.

[R.A.]

Jennifer wrote: "R.A. wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "My book has been out for almost a year now and has only been available in print, but I am working on the eBook version. On average in a month I sell anywhere from 0-3 ..."

My local library sponsors a local author once a month by letting him or her hold a book signing, so they're at least open to the idea of helping out an author, but I really can't guess what they'll say about the rest. But here we do have lots of festivals and things that might be options-I'm just not sure about the cost. I couldn't very well pay $100 to rent a booth on the off chance that i might sell a couple of copies! Not to mention the upfront cost of paperbacks-I'd really have to sell them, eventually. Right now I'm working to finish my sequel so I can get it out to editors, so I haven't made a lot of progress on promoting/paperbacking book number one in the last few weeks. This end of the writing process is really not how I visualized spending so much of my time back when I first launched my book!
But it's been a growing experience, so I can't complain too much.
I'll think about what a networking group might look like for me here. Thanks so much for the great advice. I know your time is valuable, and I appreciate your giving me a bit of it.

[Abigail]

My success was defined by selling my book rights to a publisher. Though I completely respect the self-published world. I just chose not to go that route.

Sure I'd love for lots and lots and lots of folks to buy it and enjoy it, too. ;)

[R.A.]

Abigail wrote: "My success was defined by selling my book rights to a publisher. Though I completely respect the self-published world. I just chose not to go that route.

Sure I'd love for lots and lots and lots..."

I would have gone that route if it had been open to me, but alas, mine is a very large, thematic fantasy. Even if I had been able to get a publisher to look at it, I don't think it would have been picked up. The one publisher that actually responded to my query said that my sub-genre (and it's a bit cross genre, too) just isn't the 'in' thing right now. The mainstream market is all about urban fantasy, and not much interested in the epic variety. Now, I'm kind of glad things went this way. It has been challenging and rewarding.

[Lance]

Kelly wrote: "Also, want to know something else weird? If you went on Barnes and Noble.com, you could order my book, but I did not set that up. How did that happen?"

If you signed up for expanded distribution, CS will either distribute directly to major channels or go through Ingram to do it. In either case, you may find your printed book popping up in many unexpected places.

[Lance]

Sharon wrote: "Caveat to KDP-S advice; please be advised that you are deliberately leaving out a good deal of your potential audience. Nook is a large part of the US market, and the most popular reader abroad is Kobo..."

Agree -- I just had my most successful month due to Nook sales. (Nothing like Amanda Hocking numbers, but I'll take them.)

However, I'm completely drawing a blank with ways to connect to Nook and Kobo readers specifically. There are about 3.7x10^23 websites dedicated to Kindle, and about 4 dedicated to Nook or Kobo. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Justin]

Some of you are lucky your library does stuff for local authors or that their so nice, mine doesnt do anything. They only do non-profit type of deals and even if could convince them I doubt id get anything. They always seem to give me the run around.