Eragon
discussion
Get over it.
message 1:
by
Matthew
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rated it 5 stars
May 02, 2013 02:19PM
OK this is not so much for this book but the entire Inheritance series. I have read all the reviews and wow allot of you need to get over the so called copying from lord of the rings. also this book was well written you need to remember when he first wrote it he was in his teens as the books go on they get better and better. Now back to my main point i have read people complain about how this book sounds like he took stuff from lord of the rings, star wars, or potter. SO what if he did almost every book that has been written has stuff in it from another book its the way it is done. Harry potter has stuff that sounds like it can be from lord of the rings. Just like in movies avatar is a copay of dances with wolves and star wars. See here is the thing with out lord of the rings and all those old great books there would be no potter or eragon just like with out star wars and all those great movies there would be no avatar and such.So if an author puts stuff in his book from another book or sounds like i can be in another book so what most authors get there inspiration from another book or author and try to pay homage to them some how in there books and its usually by making stuff thats alike or such..
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Thank you:)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that Eragon was a good book.I just started reading it to tell you the truth.I hope you`ll believe in me when I tell you that Shakespeare the greatest writer was also inspired by the stories of other great writers except the A Midsummer Night's Dream, Love's Labour's Lost and The Tempest which were his original stories... so you see if great writers can be inspired then why not beginners...even I write inspired I wrote a few pages on my favorite game me as the main character and using all the other characters as well although I think it might have been foolish but every one have their right to imagine
Matthew wrote: "OK this is not so much for this book but the entire Inheritance series. I have read all the reviews and wow allot of you need to get over the so called copying from lord of the rings. also this boo..."EXACTLY!!!!
The quality of the grammar used in the comments defending this book and series is incredibly telling.
you know, i haven't read the LotR series, but i dont think this series is anything like it. And I dont understand why people hate it so much...
Perenelle wrote: "you know, i haven't read the LotR series, but i dont think this series is anything like it. And I dont understand why people hate it so much..."1. It is really, really poorly written. You might not notice if you are very young and/or haven't read much else but it's true. There are books I loved when I was in my early teens that I cringe when I reread now.
2. He wasn't just "inspired", he copied whole scenes from other stories including Star Wars, LOTR, and some David Eddings books. There are other threads where someone has done a direct comparison. When he runs back to find his farm burned down I kept expecting to hear "Uncle Owen! Aunt Beru!"
3. The only reason he got published was because his parents did it for him. And then they did a big tour where they pushed the fact that he was 15 until a real publisher noticed and they then marketed the book using his age as a selling point. If they tried to sell it to a publisher to start with, it never would have been printed.
Between us, my wife and I had well over a thousand books. When we separated that was the only one neither of us wanted and we threw it (a hardcover) in the trash.
wow...um...okay then? Well, I'd like you to tell me which books he copied from and what scenes -.-
Actually Matthew, YOU need to get over it.The thing with Eragon + the other books isn't really much about how much Paolini stole, it's about how he used the ideas he took. He used them badly, he wasn't able to make them 'his'. All us artists actually 'steal' in some way. I'm currently reading the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy and the author even stated in an interview that he was inspired by everything he ever read. The huge difference is though that Pullman made the ideas his by making them a part of the world(s) he created. Paolini fails at this for some reason. He put his books together like a badly sown quilt.
Take the dragons for example.
He tried making them like they're from the Dragonriders of Pern series but they're not. The Pernese dragons are more intelligent than normal animals but they're not as intelligent as humans. They also only talk to the person they're bonded with. It's rare that a person can talk to multiple dragons. Saphira on the other hand talks like a human, has emotions like a human but is pretty dumb. When you read her chapters you even see how dumb she really is. She also talks to anyone she's willing to.
Also, another thing. Paolini actually had bad luck that his first book got published in the state it was in. Why is it bad luck?
Oh gawd. Where do I even start?
Usually when you write a book you don't take the very first draft of it. You rewrite it, look for flaws, have test readers who point out flaws as well. If Paolini had anyone to work with him there wouldn't be this overload of purple prose.
Paolini's books are actually the prime example on how not to write a book. You can't just ignore that. If anyone would ask me about what book to recommend when it comes to bad example for published books I'd say Eragon any day. The traditional way of publishing has things like the publisher actually taking a critical look at the script before even considering publishing it. Paolini bypassed all these steps and it cost him dearly. That the author wasn't happy with many of the things in his first book are actually clear because he suddenly changes things like the magic system and so on.
That's tough.
Also, @Perenelle
You could just google all of that if you were really interested. I did some searching myself and came across this stuff:
http://antishurtugal.livejournal.com/...
Unfortunately I can't access the website that listed A LOT of books Paolini took things from. That one even included a copy of the infamous bridge scene Paolini stole from The Ruby Knight.
The link is here anyway:
http://telpenori.blogspot.com/2007/02...
Btw, the bridge scene is a nice example of how Paolini took something that didn't fit:
In The Ruby Knight characters in this scene are church knights and some followers, among the son of the main character's page. That's Talen btw. When they come to that bridge some guy there wants them to pay a toll. So far so good. Why don't they just run him over? They're church knights and they can't just run an innocent person over, even if he takes advantage. That Talen cuts his purse is sort of a comic relief in this scene because the main plot is super serious.
The same scene in Eragon:
Some guy wants them to pay a toll to cross the river at a shallow place. Brom pays and then cuts the purse. Derp. In this scenario however, they could have easily refused, run him over (they were on horses after all!) and be gone. But nope. Paolini played this scene for the lols because he enjoyed it in The Ruby Knight. It also felt weird because Brom was supposely some kind of honorable storyteller pseudo knight jedi guy so cutting the purse of a man doesn't fit in with his character.
So yeah. Paolini ruined everything by copying things like this. There are times his characters are behaving like a different person because Paolini made them follow the plot rather than act.
I'm a bit of a hobby author myself and I know if you try to push your characters too much they will become... well, not characters but more like puppets. Eragon is a puppet. He does what the plot demands. When I write something and I see that the way I planned the plot doesn't go well with the characters - well I just change the thing! That's not so hard. Appearently for Paolini it was hard.
Matthew wrote: "also this book was well written you need to remember when he first wrote it he was in his teens..."This is not a reason to like a book. You can like the book as much as you like. I believe its substandard. If it were written by a twenty, thirty, or forty year old it would be substandard. Being written by a teenager does not change that it is, in my opinion, substandard.
I like the first two books of this series and skimmed the last two. I see the resemblance of his books to others but i can say the same about plenty of writers. He isnt the best fantasy writer i have read but he isnt the worst either. But it is just a matter of opinion. My main problem as the series went along was the fact the book became too descriptive. Almost as if he felt the need to explain every aspect of the world he created including the parts that were unnecessary to move the story along. almost as if Paolini got lost in creating the world and lost site of the purpose of the world which was the adventure. But his world is fascinating and i can see him writing more series surrounding other characters and i would read him again. I just hope he gets a better editor
I few years ago I really loved those books, but when I reread the series about half a year ago I really had trouble going through all of them, but I kept going telling myself 'that it will get better', it didn't. I actually think that the first book is the best book out of all of them because there's a better balance between the storytelling, the descriptions, etcI think the story in general is okay but the writing (like most of you have pointed out) can't reach the level it's supposed to have. I think the older you get, the more you will probably start disliking the series because your experience with books (which are hopefully better written) will grow :)
Those who defend this book because it's a 'homage' need to learn the difference between a homage and straight out plagiarism
Kim wrote: "I couldn't care less about his use of other artists material, there is no blatant copyright infringement and it hasn't hurt other authors. Having said that, his writing style is just poor quality. ..."thanks for the tip (Mr. thesaurus can be both your best friend and your worst enemy).I'll remember that
I read the first two or three books but stopped before I got to BRISINGR and just haven't had the chance to start reading them again. Should I bother or not?
*pops in*If the Inheritance Cycle had been a copyright infringement, then the authors/owners of the things he copied would have gone after him. But they didn't, and the series is still popular. Just saying.
*pops out*
Matthew wrote: "OK this is not so much for this book but the entire Inheritance series. I have read all the reviews and wow allot of you need to get over the so called copying from lord of the rings. also this boo..."YES! FINALLY!
Seriously! Anybody who thinks Eragon was a ripoff of Lord of the Rings is whack! 2 the max!! Let's all ignore the fact that it has the exact same plot-line as Star Wars - A New Hope. But if you think it rips off Lord of the Rings, you're a total a-hole!! ;)
You know people should just 'get over' this entire issue. But I can see this thread becoming another war-ground between what is right, what is wrong and what exactly people's problem with Paolini is. My opinion on the matter is this-
I enjoyed that books,
I don't give a sh** if the ideas were taken from somewhere else, they were all jumbled together and put under the name ERAGON. I enjoyed those ideas before and I enjoyed them again.
It's all the same to me.
Kim wrote: "I couldn't care less about his use of other artists material, there is no blatant copyright infringement and it hasn't hurt other authors. Having said that, his writing style is just poor quality. ..."I couldn't agree more. You are absolutely correct and stated my feelings exactly. I don't care about the copying of material either. It was and is obvious that Paolini is still very under developed in his writing skills.
So many people find some reason to hate on Paolini and his series, but honestly, I could care less. I love this series and I will continue to love this series no matter how much criticism it gets. You can all say that he plagiarized or that it was such poor writing but I DON'T CARE. Out of the approximately one-hundred books that make-up my personal book collection this series is still one of my favorites.
Just because you don't care about the terrible writing does not mean the writing is not terrible. We are not slagging these books off because its fun , we do it because it inspired such strong negative feelings in us. I for one wish that the people who love these books could at least admit they are shit, even if that does not matter to them
Man I love these shitty books! Bet that sentence made you happy huh?
I really couldn't care less that the author has used similar story elements as other writers for their stories as i have seen no evidence of direct plagarism and as there have been no original plot lines for centuries, I'm not dyre gb
Yay! there is actually other people who don't think this book is good.
actaully who cares get over it! if u dont like, oh well, dont ruin it 4 others!
I really wanted to like this book, but it was a struggle. So much of it reminded me of other books that it was tough for me to read it as a fresh new novel. To me it felt more like a rewrite or an interpretation of other works. The descriptions were long and so detailed I found my mind wandering and waiting impatiently to get back to the actual story. But, that is just my opinion.
What about the words he stole right from the book like Inzilbeth, Beor, Angrenost, Mithrim etc... There are tons of things he copyed!!!!!
You know I like both of them a lot and I don't really mind that he copied stuff. While the Inheritance book can never measure up to The Lord of the Rings they are still an ok book.
I like this book. I have also read the Lord of the Rings and it is a little like it but, the Lord of the Rings was good soooooo. . .
Who cares!, it's like comparing Twilight with dracula. Get over it!I love this books!
They make my love for dragons diaper!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Blanca wrote: "Who cares!, it's like comparing Twilight with dracula. Get over it!I love this books!
They make my love for dragons diaper!"
You love Dragon diapers?
I LOVE the Inheritance Cycle, and Hate it when people trash talk it. No ones forcing you to read it, so just chilll, and stay out of the real fans discussions. It's an awesome series, so just chill.
Anne wrote: "I LOVE the Inheritance Cycle, and Hate it when people trash talk it. No ones forcing you to read it, so just chilll, and stay out of the real fans discussions. It's an awesome series, so just chill."You mean real fans discussions like this one? If the topic is "get over the so-called plagiarism you Eragon-mocking pieces of shit", I would assume it's a discussion between fans and haters, not just for fans. Just saying.
I'm not saying the Inheritance cycle was good or bad, but if you didn't like it you don't have to tell the fans of it that they're all wrong. Even if they were the worst book you ever read and it would be painful for you to read them again, other people enjoyed it and they shouldn't have to listen to you raging on them. And if you disliked it so much, why do you even bother to look at these forums?
Used to love this series, but after people pointed out some stuff...really. I read some WAY better written books, and these books have poor quality writing.
I liked them. Waited a long time for them to be finished. I also love STAR WARS! And Lord of the Rings.
Casey wrote: "I really wanted to like this book, but it was a struggle. So much of it reminded me of other books that it was tough for me to read it as a fresh new novel. To me it felt more like a rewrite or an ..."You know what Casey? If This is one of the first 'big books' you read when you were a kid, then it is a world you'd love to live in. But now? I'm all grown up, I've read and loved other books. And now, while I still love Eragon, I'm annoyed with Paolini because, even if you point out all the plagerised bits and tell me where they came from, I'll never be able to read those books (the ones Paolini stole from) with the same open mind that I otherwise might have. :( They'll always be tainted by Eragon.
I don't care if he DID copy story ideas from other books. everybody uses other people's idea to create their own work, and it's not just in the bookworld that this happens in. It happens in everyday life. And if people really loved this series they wouldn't really care where the story came from. I don't. I loved the story and always will. This discussion is called 'get over it' and I second that. Get over it.
Night Sky wrote: "Kim wrote: "Perenelle wrote: "wow...um...okay then? Well, I'd like you to tell me which books he copied from and what scenes -.-"You are essentially asking the man to re-read Eragon to answer you..."
http://aydee.wordpress.com/2006/12/17...
Just by reading the stuff under the title "inspiration versus theft" will give you some idea. (I don't however quite buy into the idea of the name Eragon being taken from Aragorn, because it's so clear that it's dragon with an E... which also isn't exactly very imaginative) Then you should read this comment from Samantha I found in the thread "officially against Paolini":
'Sorry to disappoint you, but I believe there was a scene in Eragon taken almost directly from another one. I believe there's a scene where Brom and Eragon are walking over a bridge, someone gross stops them and forces them to pay, and Brom steals his money after paying him. I can't find this source again, but I have seen it, and I was amazed he got away with it.
After a bit more searching, I found the scene I was talking about.
The Anora River flowed between them and the town, spanned by a stout bridge. As they approached it, a greasy man stepped (out) from behind a bush and barred their way. His shirt was too short and his dirty stomach spilled over a rope belt. Behind his cracked lips, his teeth looked like crumbling tombstones.
“You c’n stop right there. This’s my bridge. Gotta pay t’ get over.”
“How much?” asked Brom in a resigned voice. He pulled out a pouch and the bridge keeper brightened.
“Five crowns” he said, pulling his lips into a broad smile.
Eragon’s temper flared at the exorbitant price, and he started to complain hotly, but Brom silenced him with a quick look. The coins were wordlessly handed over. The man put them into a sack hanging from his belt.
“Thank’ee much” he said in a mocking tone and stood out of the way.
As Brom stepped forward, he stumbled and caught the bridge keeper’s arm to support himself.
“Watch y’re step” snarled the grimy man sidling away.
“Sorry” apologised Brom, and continued over the bridge with Eragon.
“Why didn’t you haggle? He skinned you alive!” exclaimed Eragon. He probably doesn’t even own the bridge.”
“Probably” agreed Brom.
“Then why pay him?” Because you can’t argue with all the fools in the world. It’s easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they’re not paying attention.” Brom opened his hand, and a pile of coins glinted in the sun.
“You cut his purse!” said Eragon incredulously. Brom pocketed the money with a wink. There was a sudden howl of anguish from the other side of the river. “I’d say our friend has just discovered his loss.”
Now compare it with the original (and much better written) passage from the 3rd chapter of The Ruby Knight. Our hero Sparhawk tries to cross the bridge with his traveling companions, the young boy Talen among them.
Beside the ford stood a small hut. The man who owned it was a sharped eyed fellow in a green tunic who demanded a toll to cross. Rather than argue with him, Sparhawk paid what he asked. “Tell me neighbour,” he asked when the transaction was completed “how far is the Pelosian border?”
“About five leagues” the sharp eyed man replied. “If you move along, you should reach it by afternoon.”
They splashed on across the ford. When they reached the other side, Talen rode up to Sparhawk. Here’s your money back,” the young boy said, handing over several coins.
Sparhawk gave him a startled look.
“I don’t object to paying a toll to cross a bridge” Talen sniffed. “After all, someone had to go to the expense of building it. That fellow was just taking advantage of a natural shallow place in the river. It didn’t cost him anything, so why should he make a profit from it?
“You cut his purse, then?”
“Naturally.”
“And there was more in it than just my coins?”
“A bit. Let’s call it my fee for recovering your money. After all, I deserve a profit too, don’t I?”
“You’re incorrigible.”
“I needed the practice.”
From the other side of the river came a howl of anguish.
“I’d say he just discovered his loss” observed Sparhawk.
“It does sort of sound that way, doesn’t it? '
People have so much hate for Paolini because humans, as a general rule, hate injustice. We don't like cheaters. We don't like undeserved success. We don't like nepotism. We have an innate suspicion of privilege, and conversely, a natural enthusiasm for people who rise up of their own accord to achieve hard-won success.
So it is only natural that people who criticize Paolini's books, do so with especial fervor. He isn't just a terrible writer who managed to get published (which is bad enough). He also blatantly steals wholesale from his "influences", taking the results of their hard work, and using it freely. He never earns anything.
Paolini is a cheat. A con. He's Paris Hilton. He's Mili Vanilli. He's the pseudo-intellectual grad student who can't think for himself. The pretentious artist who feigns depth. The middle-manager who nicks his subordinates ideas and passes them off as his own.
The question that always baffles me is: Why do people defend him? How do you justify his actions to yourselves? I understand that you somehow enjoyed reading the books, but don't you feel the least bit duped when you see evidence of his theft?
Imagine the most challenging accomplishment you've managed in your life. It could be a song, some art, an amazing party, an invention. A joke, or an anecdote. Something you feel proud of. Something that is yours, alone.
Now imagine someone walking in, taking all the credit for it, and becoming renowned for it. Your parents tell you he's a genius and that you should be more like him. Your significant other goes on and on about how talented he is. All the while, he's done NOTHING to deserve this acclaim.
That is what he represents. He's that guy. That twisting hatred in your guts at the injustice of it all... that's how people feel about Paolini.
I agree. Despite some copying, which is in fact ok, the Inheritance cycle is a great read.
Sparrowlicious wrote: "Actually Matthew, YOU need to get over it.The thing with Eragon + the other books isn't really much about how much Paolini stole, it's about how he used the ideas he took. He used them badly, he w..."
Thanks for bring up “Dragonriders of Pern”. I've never heard of it before and am looking forward to reading them now!
