Crime, Mysteries & Thrillers discussion
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Most annoying MCT cliches
It saves my sanity. Having uncomfortable stilted conversations where it's like pulling teeth and I feel like I am playing a game of 20 questions. For them forewarned is forearmed.
Patricia wrote: "It saves my sanity. Having uncomfortable stilted conversations where it's like pulling teeth and I feel like I am playing a game of 20 questions. For them forewarned is forearmed."but that almost seems like saying if you can't have good table manners, we'll banish you from the table. How else will they learn?
They learn by example. If they talk about coming back to see me, then they know me pretty well. In that case, they understand they need to be an active participant in the conversation.
Patricia wrote: "They learn by example. If they talk about coming back to see me, then they know me pretty well. In that case, they understand they need to be an active participant in the conversation."My daughter's 9th grade English teacher, a PhD who insists the students call her "Dr. Allison" and nothing less, is the same way. My daughter & her friends drop in Dr. Allison's class room quite a bit. They stop before going in and make a conscious effort to compose themselves. Dr. Allison is a friendly, outgoing, fascinating conversationalist and they don't mind that she expects them to be the same.
Good for you Patricia!
Peace, Seeley
In some recent books I have seen "with carnal interest" to describe how one person looked at another. I expect that stilted language in older books but not in very recent ones unless the rest of the prose is similarly written.
Here's a plot cliche that has gotten to be predictable: When there's a young person who's a main character and he or she ends up being kidnapped. That happened in the last book I read.
Dave wrote: "She had legs up to her neck, but that was because somebody had put them there. I pulled my can’t-miss-howitzer from its holster with my left hand, given that some gunsel had just drilled me throu..."
LOL, thanks
Peace, Seeley
You know what gets me - when an amateur sleuth - and it's almost always a female does something that is obviously stupid or goes somewhere she obviously shouldn't. Or she questions people that will make them suspicious immediately.
Yvonne wrote: "You know what gets me - when an amateur sleuth - and it's almost always a female does something that is obviously stupid or goes somewhere she obviously shouldn't. Or she questions people that wil..."And have you noticed she usually is a highly intelligent woman? Kathy Reichs's Temperance Brennan is a prime example.
A writer friend of mine does a presentation at conferences on just this topic. The title: Too Dumb To Live (or TDTL)!
LOL - I love the title of that conference!
It's becoming a cliche for a detective to have a friend in the underbelly of society who comes to their rescue at the last minute, doing frankly illegal things (including murder) for the detective, and NOT having that come back to bite either or both of them. Or a mobster owes them a favor that functions as a deux ex machina. Have you met any members of organized crime? they don't do favors unless it also indebts you to a larger debt than the one they're paying off. Why would they?
to me, these are the least developed characters, motivationally, in many books. I would love to see an author complicate up that "debt" scenario with a criminal.
Dave wrote: "She had legs up to her neck, but that was because somebody had put them there. I pulled my can’t-miss-howitzer from its holster with my left hand, given that some gunsel had just drilled me throu..."
You forgot the fifth of whisky :P.
Yvonne wrote: "You know what gets me - when an amateur sleuth - and it's almost always a female does something that is obviously stupid or goes somewhere she obviously shouldn't. Or she questions people that wil..."I am never quite sure why everyone happily gathers in the room to listen to Poirot reveal the murderer. He has no legal hold over them. And if I was the murderer and heard those words "would everyone assemble in the parlour at six this evening" I would be hightailing it out of there.
Sorry Mel- Can't imagine how I forgot the booze. Peter Swift poured himself a bourbon. - From the movie "Her Alibi". Swift was actually pouring chocolate syrup into his milk .
Not all the time. In "Mrs McGinty's Dead" for example it states:"After the inquest, at the request of Hercule Poirot, those who had attended it came to Long Meadows."
Japp wasn't in all the stories either.
1) When someone gives away their position by stepping on a twig2) the whole "I mailed the evidence to the New York Times and if I'm not back by 6 they'll expose you to the world" or similar nonsense
3) (encountered this one 3 or 4 times in the last few months) when someone being threatened tells the one doing the threatening that they are "boring" them
The 'goodie' regains consciousness and the 'baddie' then tells them in minute detail his/her evil scheme all the while the 'goodies love interest' is getting closer to the door........ blurgh.
Nicola wrote: "The 'goodie' regains consciousness and the 'baddie' then tells them in minute detail his/her evil scheme all the while the 'goodies love interest' is getting closer to the door........ blurgh."My all-time fave line in any movie was the son of Dr. Evil in Austin Powers who astutely said, "Just shoot him! Don't hang him over a pool of sharks and then leave! SHOOT HIM!"
But no one in all of the thrillers (books or movies) since has bothered listening to the boy.
:)
Peace, Seeley
no I'm sorry but the best line in Austin Powers is 'he made outrageous statements like he invented the question mark' man I love that film.off to play with my sharks with laser beams attached to their heads. lol
i will protect you, wont let anything bad happen to you.
personally, I think regular people saying lines from Austin Powers movies is infinitely funnier than the movies themselves.
Jenni wrote: "Nicola, I passed on watching Austin Powers thinking it was too silly, but now I've got to see it on DVD."I thought they were all good, silly fun myself. The first one and Goldmember were my favorites.
I love Austin Powers 1, 2 was ok but 3 eeeeeeggghhhHello, I'm Richie Cunningham and this is my wife Oprah..... going to have to watch it again now ;)
I thought it was Carry On meets James Bond, Python is more Carry on takes Acid ; p lol
lol - meanwhile the Most annoying Cliché guy is watching through the open curtains. .... ;)
More of a thriller cliche, but the idea that an evil threat is easily eliminated by nullifying only one single antagonist. As if their entire organization of henchmen doesn't have a replacement ready.
John wrote: "More of a thriller cliche, but the idea that an evil threat is easily eliminated by nullifying only one single antagonist. As if their entire organization of henchmen doesn't have a replacement ready."Wizard of Oz syndrome? Melt the witch and all her guards drop to their knees... :)
Peace, Seeley
To be fair with The Wizard of Oz the witch's henchmen were working for her under duress and were happy she had melted.I don't like it when the assistant is made out to be a blithering fool because they don't instantly understand where the brilliantly minded detective is going with his theories.
"Ahhh mon ami, you do not yet see the significance of this minute scrap of paper with absolutely no identifying information on it?"
"Why no, old chap. I confess to being completely flummoxed."
"Sacre Bleu! That I should have to endure such failings. Clearly this can be nothing other than the last will and testament of the Dowager Duchess, which was wrenched from her dying grasp by the Butler, who then tore up the pieces of the will, made a papier mache model of the Taj Mahal with them and used that to hide the Great Pearl of Uzbekistan."
"My god! You're a marvel! I shall prostrate myself at your feet forthwith."
Mel wrote: "To be fair with The Wizard of Oz the witch's henchmen were working for her under duress and were happy she had melted.I don't like it when the assistant is made out to be a blithering fool becaus..."
LOL
Peace, Seeley
All detectives commit suicide by "eating his gun" or by "swallowing a bullet"
Bryan wrote: "All detectives commit suicide by "eating his gun" or by "swallowing a bullet""It's because that's what the police call it.
Dave wrote: "The alcoholic or ex-alcoholic cop or ex-cop is high on my list, too."It may be a cliche in fiction but most cops have a fast reaction cerebellum that is ready-made for addiction. Beyond the genetics, it's an occupational hazard.
In days of yore, the biggest cliche was whenever the detective opened a closet door, a body would fall out.
J. wrote: "Dave wrote: "The alcoholic or ex-alcoholic cop or ex-cop is high on my list, too."It may be a cliche in fiction but most cops have a fast reaction cerebellum that is ready-made for addiction. Bey..."
Yes, it is an occupational hazard. But that does not mean every cop is an alky. Yet it's such a common feature of mystery novels that it's become a cliche and hence, stale.
Dave wrote: "Yes, it is an occupational hazard. But that does not mean every cop is an alky. Yet it's such a common feature of mystery novels that it's become a cliche and hence, stale. ..."True, but not every novel cop is an alcoholic, either, just a substantial percentage. Perhaps this tendency originates in the meme that every hero is supposed to have a character flaw that contributes to his personal arc--The Hero's Journey, and all that. While it's a good concept, it can often result in character cliches, given enough novels of the same genre.
In fact, there have been so many detective/crime novels written that it's getting harder and harder to create a tec that hasn't already been done in some previous incarnation. Hence comes the one-armed, vegan, ex-priest, narcoleptic Rumanian detective in Damson Greengage Satsuma's Jan Tartu series.
Ha Ha Mel! Good one.How about the detective who refuses to carry a cell phone....how annoying is that!
A confidential informant who offers information for nothing in return, who of course dies for the effort.A tech/CSI/computer geek who will look up things, even though its against the rules for the protagonist. Instead of good police work, this plot device is the same as deux ex machina, since they provide just what's needed, just in time. But it gets annoying that they all bitch about how they'll lose their jobs and the protagonist does little, if nothing to protect them. Yet they'll offer it up like a cult member.
The detective has a pretty girlfriend. He's chasing a horrible, nasty, awful man. You know said awful man will kidnap aforementioned girlfriend before the novel/ movie/ TV program is over.
Cliches - you gotta love 'em. Or hate 'em. And you can use them both ways. Check out my blog (strictly humor) for an example of how I used 'em to shape the main character (a guy romance writer pretending to be a mystery writer so his friends wouldn't know he was really a romance writer). That was a fun write.By the way, how come females always stumble and fall when being chased by the bad guy? Is that some sex-linked middle-ear problem? Makes you wonder how women ran marathons, doesn't it?
And how come the good guy always pulls the knife out of the dead guy and fingers it with both hands for five minutes and then acts amazed his fingerprints are on it? I know guys are more hands-on than women, but don't good guys watch all the CSI shows on TV? They have their fingerprints all over the remote controls...
I've seen this again and again: The bad guy is armed. He slips and falls, and DROPS the gun, a too-convenient way for the author to disarm them. But when someone falls, by reflex, they clutch whatever they're holding tighter. They're far more likely to have the gun go off than drop it. It's a silly and transparent way to get your hero out of trouble.
J. wrote: "I've seen this again and again: The bad guy is armed. He slips and falls, and DROPS the gun, a too-convenient way for the author to disarm them. But when someone falls, by reflex, they clutch whate..."I read somewhere (wish I could remember where, to give proper attribution) that a coincidence can get your character INTO trouble, but it should never get your character OUT OF trouble.
Mel wrote: "To be fair with The Wizard of Oz the witch's henchmen were working for her under duress and were happy she had melted.I don't like it when the assistant is made out to be a blithering fool becaus..."
That's brilliant! LOL
Jenni wrote: "It could be that they let go what's in their hands in order to use them to break the fall instead."A fall (or any emergency) causes the autonomic part of the brain, located adjacent to the brain stem, to take control. More on that part of the brain at http://jorgekafkazar.wordpress.com/ni...
So reflex during a fall may make them reach out with their arms, but reflex also immediately tightens their grip on whatever they already have a hold of. But, as John says above, there is also the coincidence factor of the fall coming right at the time necessary to save the hero.
J. wrote: "Jenni wrote: "It could be that they let go what's in their hands in order to use them to break the fall instead."A fall (or any emergency) causes the autonomic part of the brain, located adjacent..."
Jenni - I love your style. You are smart, funny, and always on top of the scientific evidence! :^D
The only reason he has dropped the gun is because he has spent so long pointing it at the hero, whilst he tells him of the full details of his nefarious plot, that he has developed cramp.
Mel wrote: "The only reason he has dropped the gun is because he has spent so long pointing it at the hero, whilst he tells him of the full details of his nefarious plot, that he has developed cramp."ha ha ha
Jenni wrote: "Gun holding cramp is the biggest reason for nefarious plot failure. LOL..."Yes, and brain cramp is the second biggest.
What about when the killer always gives away his/her big confession when they are cornered and ready to kill the hero/heroine/victim and this always seems to be the perfect amount of time for the police or someone else to show up and save the hero/heroine/victim before the killer finishes their story and gets to kill them!If they just kept their mouth shut they'd have escaped already!
Michelle wrote: "What about when the killer always gives away his/her big confession when they are cornered and ready to kill the hero/heroine/victim and this always seems to be the perfect amount of time for the p..."Or just killed the hero/heroine/victim on the spot instead of flapping his or her gums.
John, we don't see it because we're males and tone-deaf about that kind of signal. Within the world of women, subtle..."
true, but that's not really my point. My point is why should female characters be defined by their relative promiscuity in MCT fiction? Let me try this a different way: the male detective can have sex, or not, but he's not defined by the act. It's merely the character having sex. If he has sex with more than one person, is he written as less virtuous than if he has sex with only one, or none? (I'm speaking in generalities, of course, but the thread IS about cliches). I would say that normally, in MCT fiction, quantity of sex incidents or sex partners is neutral in how it defines the male characters. However, its not a neutral effect on the female characters.
To some extent, this is societal, but it doesn't have to be. The writer is in control, after all.