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message 1051:
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Carolyn, The God of Angel Armies
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Jun 01, 2013 04:34PM
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Actually, I posted that second one before I even saw your post. :D I posted because I went up and saw what Rachel said, then I went back down and was like, "Okay what she said was awesome." lol!
IMHO, making abortion illegal is like sticking a band-aid over a bullet wound. I suppose it has some benefits - but it's not fixing the root of the problem. Making abortion is illegal will not fix the vast promiscuity found in our population - people will continue to have loads of sex, just for fun, and frankly, we'll just end up with more children in the foster care system, or living in dysfunctional homes, where the parents were not expecting/desiring a child anyway. Rachel is right - there are many ways to abort in an unsafe manner - and women have attempted it and succeeded at it, numerous times in the past. The women who are not gutsy enough to do so will simply give birth to the child and dump it elsewhere, or not take care of it at all. I don't know if it would be sensible to add to the enormous numbers of child neglect victims.
I know what you mean, Caro, about a moral statement - but I firmly believe that the best sermon you can preach is the way you live your life. We, as Christians, are already making a severe moral statement - by choosing not to be promiscuous, and upon occasion, not having an abortion, even if it is the easiest option available. The statement is already clear to everyone - Christians do not believe in abortion. Enforcing our beliefs on the general population is not strengthening the above statement - it is simply showing that... we want to enforce our beliefs on the general population.
I don't support abortion at all. However, I think abortion is a necessary evil. It should not be at the top of the list for fixing America. We should look at WHY people are having abortions. And we should try to fix THAT problem. If we allowed God back into school, if we tried to educate our children properly, if we exposed them to solid moral values, and made sure they understood WHY abortion is wrong - then you'd have fewer people making the decision.
Of all things, this reminds me of Les Mis. Yes, he was stealing, but he was stealing because he was poor and hungry and on the run. No, that does not justify his stealing. But if he wasn't poor and hungry and on the run, he wouldn't be stealing in the first place. It's the same thing with abortion. Yes, women are aborting, but they are aborting for reasons that seem "valid" to them. No, that does not justify their abortions. But if they weren't in that situation and were not considering those reasons, they wouldn't be having abortions at all.
Abortion is not the problem. Abortion is a part of a problem that is much bigger and demands far more activism and importance.
All of you girl's choices are awesome! I would change all of those! I forget who said it, but I agree with them, I would definitly put God back in school again. Definitly. And when I say God back in school, I mean the right kind of teaching about God. Not some twisted up Bible teaching. And I would definitly make Abortion illegal. It is wrong, no matter what, it is wrong.
Hmm...My aunt died giving herself an abortion. She bled to death on the floor of a shop. Oh my lands. So many choices...I would do the God back in school thing or I would stop all of the sick things our government does. But if I did that, I would get assassinated like JFK.
That's awful Jacklyn! I'm so sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, that is not uncommon at all when people try to abort their children. I can actually list of all the effects... I just have to find that paper I wrote... And since abortion is still going to happen, I'd rather that fewer women attempt what your aunt did and die from it.
Sam wrote: "IMHO, making abortion illegal is like sticking a band-aid over a bullet wound. I suppose it has some benefits - but it's not fixing the root of the problem. Making abortion is illegal will not fix ..."Hooray! Exactly right in my opinion, Sam. Amen.
Christal wrote: "Those are good reasons, Rachel. :) But making abortion legal just incourages women to have an abortion. Very few women try to kill their baby themselves, so very few babies would die if abortion wa..."No, it doesn't. Women who would have abortions would have them anyway. Those who would not would not. Something being legal or illegal doesn't stop anything. And abortion has become so rampant now that trying to make it illegal again would just produce more women's deaths in addition to babies' deaths. There would be just as many women getting abortions because there has to be a change of heart, not a change of law. Christians cannot force their morals on other people. It has never worked.
♥Caro♥ wrote: "Rose wrote: "♥Caro♥ wrote: "makes sense. val had that arguement too. my only problem with that is that murder is the same as abortion and its not legal. murder being illegal doesn't stop it but it ..."Yes, but the law has nothing to do with God. There are very few laws that are based on true morals. Christians are not in charge of the country. Our responsibility is to pray for our leaders and vote to put appropriate people in office or on occasion run for office, but the law is run by people for people; it isn't run for God. A Christians's relationship with God is personal, and we cannot turn into someone's else's moral police.
This is honestly the last time I'll say something on the topic unless someone asks me a direct question again because I'm not in charge of your opinions.
Thank you Rachel! That was brave. Christians need to realize that America is not a dictatorship and we are not in charge. I believe in separation of law and state - not forcing my beliefs on others. We need to learn to give people their choices - because God Himself gives us all a choice. He is not forcing His beliefs on us - even if He is perfect. And we should do the same.
I like and respect your reasons for not wanting to make abortion illegal. But my opinions aren't really based on my faith. I believe it is murder and we should try to stop it in any way we can. If some of those women wanting an abortion decided to do it themselves, they are most likely aware of the consequences. And a few women have gotten hurt or killed even while having a safe abortion.
Sorry if it seems like I am against you. I'm not. :) I just wanted to share my opinions.
Sorry if it seems like I am against you. I'm not. :) I just wanted to share my opinions.
That's a great reason Christal! :) And I perfectly respect that opinion. Some people I know have that reason as well, for their activism. No, you don't sound against us at all, and I'm sorry if I sound against anyone. I'm just trying to provide a critical perspective. :)
Sam wrote: "Thank you Rachel! That was brave. Christians need to realize that America is not a dictatorship and we are not in charge. I believe in separation of law and state - not forcing my beliefs on others..."You're welcome, and thank you for your words also.
Christal wrote: "I like and respect your reasons for not wanting to make abortion illegal. But my opinions aren't really based on my faith. I believe it is murder and we should try to stop it in any way we can. If ..."That's fine. I don't think many people think it through as you seem to have done though.
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the only thing is those choices hurt others. if it only affected themselves maybe but the babys at risk too..
♥Caro♥ wrote: "root causes. i understand that. which i also believe bullying isnt a problem its a symptom of a larger problem family dysfunction. however if making abortion illegal will save lives i still support..."I realize that. But we must beg the question: Are we doing it to ease our conscience of innocent lives being murdered? Because I believe that not enforcing your beliefs on people is what is right. So would I be willing to do what is wrong, and would likely save fewer souls, just to ease my conscience?
That's what it sounds like right now. If I were given the option - save souls or save lives - I'd choose to save souls. I don't think very many souls are being saved from Christians being in the face of the government, demanding that abortion be made illegal. If anything, I'd argue that most Americans are annoyed, to put it lightly, and downright angry that we'd like to "infringe" on a woman's right of choice. This is why people laugh when we say we're Christians. This is why people view us as narrow-minded tyrants.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. By getting in their face, are you saving their soul? Are you convincing them of Christ? No, you are just making them angry. To appease your conscience of saving the baby's life. If you leave it as it is, giving them a choice, and rather lived a godly life for them and spoke to them with the same kindly words Jesus used on all the sinners he came across, if you focused your energies not on parading in front of the Supreme Court, demanding that the law be changed, but instead on spreading the love of God into every person you came across, I can guarantee that you'd save more souls, thereby saving more lives.
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Sam wrote: "♥Caro♥ wrote: "root causes. i understand that. which i also believe bullying isnt a problem its a symptom of a larger problem family dysfunction. however if making abortion illegal will save lives ...":) good job, Sam. Well articulated.
#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?
A particular white rabbit who lives in a pen in my backyard. So I could be spoiled with hugs and carrots all day. ;)
Christal wrote: "A particular white rabbit who lives in a pen in my backyard. So I could be spoiled with hugs and carrots all day. ;)"lol love yours! Rabbits are so cute!
Jennah wrote: "#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?"I would be either a falcon/eagle or panther.
Jennah wrote: "#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?"A bird so I could fly away, or a wild horse.
Jennah wrote: "#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?"
Mm. An eagle. Flying and soaring to the heights. They're such beautiful creatures.
Mm. An eagle. Flying and soaring to the heights. They're such beautiful creatures.
Jennah wrote: "#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?"(Sorry I've been gone for a little while, but love this question, so here I am!)
An otter! They play and swim all day and they always look like they are smiling.
I would choose to be a fish and swim everywhere... see what it's like under the water! I've always wanted to see fish up close and swim really well and be able to breathe underwater... I'd choose to be a colorful tropical fish! :D
Rachel wrote: "Sam wrote: "♥Caro♥ wrote: "root causes. i understand that. which i also believe bullying isnt a problem its a symptom of a larger problem family dysfunction. however if making abortion illegal will..."Thanks :)
Flying through sky vs. flying through water... I think I'd still choose sky. :)
Percy IS cooler than Jason... but I have this little fear regarding large bodies of water, so flying it is. :P
Jennah wrote: "#22 Ice Breaker: If you woke up tomorrow as an animal, what animal would you choose to be and why?"Argghh... I don't want to be an animal...but as long as I didn't turn into a human-size cockroach, I think I'd be okay The Metamorphosis :)
Me too... Well, actually, mainly, I just thought it was really weird.
@Mountainmist, I would probably pick a wild horse or a bird too!Anybody having trouble getting on each of the topics in this group? Everytime I get on goodreads, this things comes up "The page you requested doesn't exist. Please check the url again, or visit the home page." It keeps stopping me from joining in the topics because it won't let me get to them. I'm lucky that I got to this one. If anybody knows what to do please shoot me a message! Don't comment on this because I won't be able to get to it.
Hmm. That has not happened to me. I know Caro was having similar problems yesterday.
Sam wrote: "Poseidon!!! Percy!!! Water is cooler!!"But if you're a fish, you get eaten by almost everything.
Abbey wrote: "Rose wrote: "Sam wrote: "Poseidon!!! Percy!!! Water is cooler!!"But if you're a fish, you get eaten by almost everything."
Good point. I'll be a tropical fish in an aquarium. :)"
Wouldn't you get bored?
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Anybody having trouble getting on each of the topics in this group? Everytime I get on goodreads, this things comes up "The page yo..."
YES ME! its okay today weird *shrug*
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Jennah wrote: "@Mountainmist, I would probably pick a wild horse or a bird too!Anybody having trouble getting on each of the topics in this group? Everytime I get on goodreads, this things comes up "The page yo..."
:)
"They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint..."
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I picked eagle too, as did Rose. :)
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