THE Group for Authors! discussion
Publishing and Promoting
>
What to set your Creativespace paperback book price to???
You won't get any profit if your book sells to any extended distribution sites, as they get a cut as well, and you only receive yours if your price is above that.Search the threads on Createspace--I know they deal with this topic extensively. There's a formula, but in order to have a $2.00 profit it will be closer to 2x the production cost.
(Actually if you're using Createspace, they have a Pricing calculator and a minimum list price. My copies cost me $6.25 but my minimum list price is $10.48 so that they get a profit and I get a profit.)
Of course this is all for the PRINT copies. Ebooks you can pretty much price however you want.
Thanks Judy. I will look for the thread.Judy wrote: "You won't get any profit if your book sells to any extended distribution sites, as they get a cut as well, and you only receive yours if your price is above that.
Search the threads on Createspace..."
My book is priced at 13 so I make a little over 2 dollars.
mine is at 11.99 and I make $1.98. It's over 300 pages though, so the more pages the more it will need to cost for you to make a profit. But i agree with the above stated that they at least give you a calculator to estimate all that for you.
I believe that since you're paying production costs per page whatever the size of the page, it might behove you to enlarge the book's size, thereby reducing pages and production costs considerably and increasing your profit margin. "Love and the Art of War" is 6x9, runs 388 pages and is priced at $10.55. (It's a literary romantic comedy, not a genre romance, so perhaps the 6x9 format wouldn't suit you, but it's worth looking into for your book.)What we see is an occasional rush of print orders indicating a book club selection, then a drop-off in orders.
Hope that suggestion helps,
I have no idea if I'm doing it correctly, but due to the size of my book, I'm charging 8.99 which nets me 2 dollars or so per book. So far, anyone who told me they wanted a paperback book did not balk at the price. Not a large sample to determine too much from that one way or another, though. I have no way to know if the price has turned people off if they don't buy. Who can tell?I think the costs may be higher since its Print on Demand.
I've noted a increase in print sales recently and simply researched what competitors were pricing their books at within the same genre. Currently my print books go for $14. Competitive pricing by other re-salers pushes the price down a few dollars. ($10-12) Sales have remained consistent except in recent weeks (gone up). Look to see what publishers and other competitors are doing, looks like you're low-balling yourself on price, which will not necessarily lead to larger sales.
Can someone let me know, if I increase the price via the dashboard will it put the book back into review/draft like it does on Kindle?
If you are talking in CreativeSpace. Then no. You don't have to go through the approval process again.Alexandra wrote: "Can someone let me know, if I increase the price via the dashboard will it put the book back into review/draft like it does on Kindle?"
Yay. Thanks, that really bugs me about Kindle. I understand resetting it if you reupload the actual document but basic tings such as pricing or checking worldwide rights or whatever is a bit of a pain.
Agreed. Too much control I think.Alexandra wrote: "Yay. Thanks, that really bugs me about Kindle. I understand resetting it if you reupload the actual document but basic tings such as pricing or checking worldwide rights or whatever is a bit of a p..."
Brandon, does $14 translate to $13.99?
Very simple people, if you don't like the way Amazon operates, then don't swim in their pool. It's their water so they get to make the rules...
Nick strikes again!I love Amazon. I just sold two of my books the other day. Other sellers are asking why more for my book than I am. One seller is selling for thirty dollars not including shipping.
I have no problems with Amazon, it is just odd. You can update things on CS without putting the book into draft so would be helpful for the kindle side.
It translates to $14.00. The days of *.99 pricing games are over. People are more aware of their money and not fooled by the price/marketing points of old, IMHO.Ronald wrote: "Brandon, does $14 translate to $13.99?"
Wow this is all really good info to know. I am so glad i found this site. I am currently working on a rough draft of a book I would like to publish and sell, and i did not know any of this
I try to encourage people to buy through the Createspace website, as I actually get royalties that way. It kind of sucks that you get $0 for selling through Amazon unless you jack up the price, but since they're letting you make the books for free I guess you get what you pay for (ha).I make most of my money through ebook sales, though, so I try not to worry about it too much.
Pricing through CS is a little confusing because the discount varies depending upon the sales channel:* CS Store: 20%
* Amazon.com: 40%
* Expanded Distribution: 60%
The discount determines your gross margin on the sale, and your print costs are subtracted from that margin. Here's what happens to a $20 book with a $5 print cost sold through ED:
* The reader buys the book for $20 at B&N.
* Your gross margin on that sale is $8 [$20 - 60%]
* Amazon subtracts your print cost from your margin [$8 - $5], leaving you with a $3 royalty.
Here's the same book sold through Amazon.com:
* The reader buys the book for $20 at Amazon.com.
* Your gross margin is $12 [$20 - 40%].
* Amazon subtracts the print cost [$12 - $5] and you earn a $7 royalty.
If you use ED, you need to price for ED.
My solution has been to use CS for Amazon.com sales only and LSI for distribution to other vendors. I can price my books much lower and still make a good profit everywhere because I set a 20% discount at LSI.
At LSI, I can price my book at half the price I would have to set for CS/ED and still make the same money:
LSI: $10 - 20% = $8 - $5 printing = $3 profit
CS/ED: $20 - 60% = $8 - $5 printing = $3 profit
Granted, the print costs at the two vendors are not identical, but they are very close.
In case you are wondering, I do not set different list prices at LSI and CS. I actually price for Amazon.com (at a 40% discount) and I just earn more on the LSI sales.
$20 for a paperback book?I buy hard backs for less than that...
Here's my two cents. I won't pay over 10 bucks for a paperback, even if it's one I really want. Disheartening since the lowest price I could offer mine was 12.33 according to createspace. With the price slashing that Amazon does (not sure how they do this) I am close to the 10 dollar mark, but like the others, most of my sales come out of e-book, but once in a while my createspace sales will jump and then I know expanded distribution has been utilized because they jump in increments of 20.
I used a $20 list price and $5 print cost just as an example. Feel free to substitute your own list price and print cost. The math is the same.
I decided, as a new author, I had not the right and no business to be asking more than for my paperback than an established author. Later, I even dropped it to 7.99 this cuts my profit margin to almost nonexistent, but due to the market, I find this fair.
One last thing to keep in mind--these are not mass market paperbacks, but trade paperbacks, which are larger and of a higher quality. If you walked into a store to purchase a trade paperback, 14.99 is a pretty typical price.
What Judy said. That was the main rationale behind Five Directions Press: since print on demand (POD) requires trade paperback prices if the author is to make even a small profit, we wanted to guarantee trade paperback quality, in terms of the editing, typesetting, and cover design as well as the writing.Mass-market paperbacks sell for $7.99 or thereabouts because offset printing has a very different cost structure from POD. You print a million copies offset, you can expect to pay much less for each one than if you printed 100 (or 10). Print the same million copies POD, and it costs a million times the cost of one. So mass-market paperbacks are not the right comparison to use.
We price the e-book versions at about 1/3 of the print editions. That's where it makes sense to charge less because one is not an established author. The reader still gets the benefit of the editing and critiquing, but s/he does not have to pay for typesetting on paper.
I sell very few paperbacks on line. But I get a substantial discount when I buy the paperbacks myself, and then I'm able to sell them in person (book signings, fairs, etc.) and offer a discounted price to the reader while still making a profit of a couple bucks per book. I think that's the way to do paperbacks; the person buying it gets the chance to see the nice cover and take a browse through a display copy first.
I found it ironic that if I buy my own book at 50% discount the postage costs of sending it to me make it more expensive than buying at full price on Amazon with free, or local, postage. As a non-US author, buying from CreateSpace does not make sense for the author.
Grey wrote: "I found it ironic that if I buy my own book at 50% discount the postage costs of sending it to me make it more expensive than buying at full price on Amazon with free, or local, postage. As a non-U..."similarly, i sent a paperback to ireland as cheap as I could, the postage was 14 dollars. the Book cost 8.99 and costs me half that. It would probably have been cheaper to have the person order it and reimburse it for what it costs.
S.J. wrote: "...I did like having a physical copy in my hand, but I don't want vanity to overtake practicality.It is a lot to ask someone to pay out.
My next book will be ebook only...."
I hear you. I'm fortunate enough to be married to a graphic designer with a lot of book layout experience. If I had to pay to get print-ready PDFs, I'm not sure I'd bother with print. Paperback sales are a small percentage of my total sales and it would take a long time just to break even on the production cost.
On the other hand, I like to offering readers as many options as I can deliver practically. I don't do KDP Select because I want to offer my books through other book stores than Amazon and for more devices than Kindle. I publish print books through both LSI and CreateSpace because that lets me offer the best price to my readers without draining all of the profit out of the sales for me.
We all have our priorities and goals. In spite of the confusion of options out there, I think it's great that we have so many choices. It's a matter of figuring out what the best choices are for you, which is easier said than done!
Print books are for book signings and events where you have a booth or table - places where someone wants to walk away with a physical object. I sell almost no paperbacks online, but I buy a small stock to have on hand and for events. If you buy a number at a time, you cut down on shipping costs.
K.A. wrote: "I buy a small stock to have on hand..."Paperbacks are also good for giveaways, offering signed/inscribed copies through your own web site, and as a gift to friends and family.
I usually travel with a copy or two because it's nice to be able to whip one out when someone asks you what you do. When I tell them I'm a software developer and a fantasy writer, they are almost always more interested in the fantasy writer part. ;-)
LSI frequently runs specials of various kinds. They'll offer a higher quantity discount than usual or waive the setup fees if you place an order of 50 or more books. I've taken advantage of that, and the difference usually ends up paying for the shipping at least.
Thanks for all this info. It's very helpful. I did notice that Amazon dropped all by book prices and have them all discounted. Does anyone know why? I don't have paperback's through anywhere else, so it's not a price match thing.
May I ask what LSI is?Thanks
James wrote: "K.A. wrote: "I buy a small stock to have on hand..."
Paperbacks are also good for giveaways, offering signed/inscribed copies through your own web site, and as a gift to friends and family.
I usu..."
Grey wrote: "May I ask what LSI is?Thanks
LSI is Lightning Source, Inc. (LightningSource.com) They are a POD printer and distributor similar to (and in competition with) CreateSpace.
Does your work get into Amazon if you use LSI? I'm trying to experiment with as many ways as possible, not too hard since I have a substantial "back catalogue"
Jill wrote: "I did notice that Amazon dropped all by book prices and have them all discounted. Does anyone know why?"This is extremely common. The bigger the margin you give Amazon, the more they will "give away" to the readers. One author who set her discount to 55% at Lightning Source told me her book was discounted from $14.95 to $10.77, and it had nothing to do with price matching.
Since you get paid the same amount no matter what Amazon sells the book for, you should look at this as Amazon giving you free promotion. :-)
Grey wrote: "Does your work get into Amazon if you use LSI?In theory, "Yes," in practice, "Maybe."
Lightning Source (LSI) distributes to Amazon, but Amazon is inconsistent about whether or not they will keep LSI titles "in stock." Some titles do stay in stock or may drop to "only x more" status. Others will show shipping delays of up to three weeks (which pretty much kills your sales).
We solve this problem by publishing through both LSI and CreateSpace. We use CS strictly for Amazon sales (no Expanded Distribution). We use LSI for sales to all other vendors. As soon as our books go into CreateSpace, the stocking problems magically disappear.
Ah, thank you. I was not aware I was allowed to do print on demand at more than one publlisher. Do you use the same ISBN? Sorry if this is taking the topic askew, though it is about CreateSpace in effect!
Grey wrote: "Ah, thank you. I was not aware I was allowed to do print on demand at more than one publlisher. Do you use the same ISBN?"Yes, you should use the same ISBN. But if you got an ISBN from CreateSpace, you won't be able to use it at Lightning Source. You'll need to get your own ISBN (or a block of them) from Bowker (at myidentifiers.com) and assign it to your book. You can then print your book anywhere you want using that ISBN.
Technically, LSI and CS are not publishers, they are printer/distributors. You can take your print-ready PDF files and your ISBN to any printer you want. For example, if you were fortunate enough to get an order for a couple thousand books, you could take your files to an offset printer and get the books printed at a fraction of the cost per copy when compared to POD.
I didn't read all the replies. My CS book costs me about $4.50 (shipping to me included), 5 1/2 x 8 1/2, 180 pages. I sell on my website (or IRL) for $14.99 (assuming no discount, but I offer all kinds of discounts to groups/people). If they buy on my site or from me personally, I make about $10/book. (I charge for shipping so that's covered.) Doesn't take much for me to package a book and mail it.I just did a fundraiser, offered the group $5/book. Sold 25 books. Most of my sales have been paperback, but that's also where I have focused. Think about selling from your own site/blog. MUCH better profit. (And ebooks are 100% profit, less a few cents for a PayPal transaction fee.)
Note: I bought my own ISBN at CS, and can print my book anywhere (but so far I like CS and the prices are the best I've seen).
Kathy wrote: "Note: I bought my own ISBN at CS, and can print my book anywhere..."That's true if you are willing to spend $99 to buy the CS "Custom Universal ISBN." If you get the free ISBN or the $10 "Custom ISBN," you can't use it outside of CS.
Buy just two Custom Universal ISBN's from CS and you've nearly paid for a block of 10 from Bowker. However, if all you will ever need is a single ISBN, CS *is* cheaper than Bowker, who charges $125 for a single ISBN.
Aha- I didn't realize that, James. (But I don't think it affect my operations much.) Does anyone know if you buy a block of 10 from Bowker if you can use them for any version of a book. So the first could be for the paperback, the second could be for the Nook version, third ISBN# for the Kindle version and so on?
Kathy wrote: "Does anyone know if you buy a block of 10 from Bowker if you can use them for any version of a book."Yes, absolutely. When you buy a block of ISBNs, all you are doing is reserving them. You assign one from your block whenever you are ready to do so, and you can assign an ISBN to whatever edition of whatever book you want. Once assigned, that ISBN can never be reused for any other edition of the same book or of another book.
When we release a new book, we typically assign an ISBN to the paperback edition and the next one in the sequence to the EPUB edition, but they don't have to be in sequence.
CreateSpace allow me to do perfectly passable book covers with their cover creator stock images. I have ALMOST successfully used an image I uploaded as well (I would have preferred to have had a bit more position control)
Re pricing ... the British author Ian Rankin was interviewed on the radio the other day and apparently (I didn't hear, but was told) he said that he gets less than £1 per paperback sold. Which I understand is typical. Commercial authors are not necessarily in a better boat than self-pubbers, and we shouldn't over-price in order to earn money for the 'time and effort' we've put into the work. I know a self-pubber who's done that ... Result: no sales, in paperback or digital.
Book sizes are 5x8. Both are around 300 pages. The cost to print these books for amazon.com is $7.34.
I currently have them for sale at $7.99 leaving me to make only .39 per book.
I don't get a lot of paperback sales since I'm an indie author. Most of my sales are digital.
I've had four sales in the last day and I've made a whopping $1.70.
I've spend a lot of time & effort into making my covers, writing my books. etc... But, these books will be out there floating around forever.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.