Week 2.2 A Necessary... through Politically Suspect

[Everyman]

Barbara wrote: "There are SO MANY interesting things to discuss about this novel. I'm really finding The Magic Mountain to be more of an "experience" than a "novel." "

I echo that totally. My copy is filled with notes, underlinings, marginal asterisks, and the like. Almost every page has some thought or phrase that takes hold of me. I can easily understand spending years studying and unpacking the work. Our discussion here has been rich and varied, but I also feel that it only begins to explore the depth of the work. I am so grateful that we chose it to read.

And we have added such great new members to our already rich contingent of regulars. I won't name names, but you know who you are.

[Thomas]

Peter wrote: "Wendel wrote: "At this stage my vote goes to the suggestion that HC, talking of Marusja, oversteps (with a word) the limits of intimacy that Joachim is allowing him. This incident redefines the rel..."

I agree -- but what is the word? Or is it not literally "one word"? This is why I had thought the word might be "love", or something related to it. Maybe it's Marusja?

In any case, with Mann's love of motif, I bet we'll see the phrase again. I also expect to see HC to continue his "experiments."

[[deleted user]]

Might a small part of HC's attraction to Madame C be that he is a little bit drawn to death?

She's ill. She's possibly dying. The orange scent of her handkerchief masks [MM a story of masks] the smell of her diseased breath as the tuber roses masked the smell of grandfather's decaying body.

Page 109. While speaking with the Tous les de mother, the woman "exhaled a faint odour as of fading flowers" and then "a mild and pensive feeling stole about his heart."

Immediately thereafter, Hans is walking and talking with Joachim: "Don't you like the sight of a coffin? I really do."

The people are there for a cure. So they can live. And yet, everyone there must be very aware of death there.

Perhaps there is something in HC that is somewhat drawn to the idea of death.

[[deleted user]]

I very much enjoyed the scene at the beginning of "Doubts and Considerations."

"Our hero" finds his weekly bill.

This is the first time Mann has referred to HC with the word "hero". And to use it here? When HC faces his bill?

I loved that line: "Hans Castorp went over the bill with Joachim and found naught to object to" (131).

And he immediately begins objecting!

"Of course I made no use of the medical attendance, but"

"they must show a neat profit there [on the disinfection]"

"But ... I must say I find it cheap rather then dear" --- he must say this even though he clearly believes he was overcharged.

[Everyman]

Adelle wrote: "I very much enjoyed the scene at the beginning of "Doubts and Considerations."

"Our hero" finds his weekly bill.

This is the first time Mann has referred to HC with the word "hero". And to use it here? When HC faces his bill?"

I would love to have one of our German readers comment on the term that the translator translated as "hero." Does it mean what hero does in English?

[[deleted user]]

Loved this paragraph in "Table Talk":

But the truth was--[significant dash] and Hans Castorp was entirely aware of it--that the absurd manifestation against which he struggled was not solely physical in its origin, not wholly to be accounted for by the air up here and the efforts his systems made to adjust itself. Rather it was the outward expression of his inner stimulation and bore directly upon those very episodes and diversions.

And the very next word, the first word in the following paragraph:

"Madame Chauchat."

[Barbara]

Lily wrote: "Barbara -- You aren't the only one who wishes for an ebook copy.

It doesn't solve the problem, but do know about this site:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31583019/Th..."

Lily, thank you VERY MUCH for posting this link. It's fantastic. (I'm sure it was posted earlier in the discussion, but somehow I missed it.)

[Thorwald]

Adelle wrote:

"Our hero" finds his weekly bill.



When telling a literary story it is a common saying by the teller to call the protagonist "our hero", i.e. the "hero" of the teller and his listeners who both watch together the actions of the protagonist. It is enough that the protagonist is watched with sympathy to call him a "hero" in this usage of the word.

It could have a slightly ironic meaning, especially if the protagonist fails, but in the case of Hans Castorp we still do not know which development he will have, so I would tend to say: Not ironic but rather a sign of sympathy for Hans Castorp by the author! Like a father is watching his child developing even by mistake.

[Kathy]

Thorwald wrote: "Hm, "Das war ein Wort zuviel" = "This was one word too many" is a ..."

OK, just catching up here, but this is a wonderful saying! We need it in English!

[[deleted user]]

At 58, regarding "hero" Thorwald wrote: ".Like a father is watching his child developing even by mistake. .."

Since Jonathon returned my attention this morning to p32 (mediocre), I think I see what you mean. Mann writes that HC " isn't of the heroic mould," that he is "mediocre in an entirely honorable sense."

A parent would recognize a child's legitimate/ honorable limitations and want that child to reach his full potential, whatever that be. Knowing that mistakes will be made, must be made.

[Kathy]

Also, if mistakes aren't made, we have a boring story. :)

[Don]

Everyman wrote: "Perhaps you could be more specific in what way you use the term "radical"? " As I remember, "radical" had the meaning of "root", and arrived at its current meaning from the sense of tearing up the roots of the old order and planting the roots of the new order. If the old roots don't come up easily one could resort to force.

[Everyman]

Don wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Perhaps you could be more specific in what way you use the term "radical"? " As I remember, "radical" had the meaning of "root", and arrived at its current meaning from the sense ..."

Yes, but I'm not sure how this would apply to Settembrini's views on music, which was where Wendel described him as a radical.

[Wendel]

Radical (adj) - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/radical
2. Departing markedly from the usual or customary
3. Favoring or effecting fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practices, conditions, or institutions

Defining music as a politically suspect practice meets #2. The attitude may result in policies meeting #3. Extreme, would have practically the same meaning here, I suppose. Orthodox also comes to mind, but needs an established creed - I don't think the Enlightenment counts as such.

For my lòòòng attempt at an analysis of Settembrini, see: Week 3.1 comment 55

[Elizabeth]

Snow in August, 45 degree rooms, resulting in a necessary purchase of blankets. Returning home, HC and his cousin encounter Settembrini who also has some complaints about the lack of heat in their rooms. What is interesting, though, is that S's opinions are not written in quotes as though he is speaking, but instead are in the voice of the narrator. Is there a hidden meaning or purpose in this way of writing? Is the opinion of the author the same as that of Settembrini regarding "those rules that corresponded exactly to their overseers' economic interests enjoyed unconditional veneration".

Still thinking about warmth and connecting it with his father's preference for it, S pontificates about his father's intelligence and his stature in the community of the well read. Making a nexus between his father's intelligence and his own he asks HC and J to imagine what he "must suffer in this damnable and barbaric place". He continues on to name names: the director first, then Krokowski and lastly his dinner companions.

It seems to me that Settembrini is perceptive and candid about what he sees and thinks, but he has a pompous and rude way of expressing himself. Now he's going to take on the role of instructing HC, whether it's wanted or not. There's a saying about "catching more flies with honey than you can with vinegar."

I'm sad at this point that I know hardly anything at all about German history. Early on I wondered if HC represented German aristocracy in the same way as British aristocracy just before, during, and after WWI in that their world changed from overseeing the work of others on their lands and many of them marrying wealthy American women in order to keep funding their land ownership and life style to the time when servants began to become tradespeople. Was there a similar change in the German well-to-do? I guess this is still a possibility, but who would Settembrini represent?