THE Group for Authors! discussion
Writer's Circle
>
Question about using Dragon to write With...
message 1:
by
Stephen
(new)
Apr 02, 2013 12:45PM
Just Wondering if anyone has used or is using Dragon (AKA Dragon Naturally Speaking ) to write with. I have been kicking the idea around a little bit and think the investment would be worthwhile. But I would like to get the input from someone who has used it and see what they think. I know that there are learning curves to using voice software. But I really want to know if you feel it has helped or not. And whether you feel it is a good substitute for typing out an entire book. I really expect that one could never use the software solely to write an entire book. Thank you for your help.
reply
|
flag
For short stuff, a page or two, it works well enough. For writing a novel, its a pain in the ass.
I have to agree with Nick. I have used speech to text controls in software applications that I have created (my day job), and it is a science that is still developing. If you are writing a short article, and you know what you want to say, you could probably benefit from the speed with which you could complete the first draft. The process of re-drafting or correcting is clumsy, so it is back to the keyboard after that. Also, you must speak precisely and loudly or the software will have its way with your words. I think I will stick with tapping the keys.
Thank you both I have used speech software before (about 10 years ago) and it was just a very painful experience. I just find with my writing that my brain goes about 3 times as fast as my fingers can type. Well I guess I will save the money and stick to typing for now.
I don't know how expensive dragon is, but it may be easier and cheaper to dictate onto a dictaphone and pay someone to type it up for you :~)
Stephen wrote: "Thank you both I have used speech software before (about 10 years ago) and it was just a very painful experience. I just find with my writing that my brain goes about 3 times as fast as my fingers ..."I find my fingers slow my brain down enough to pay attention
:)
Sax Rohmer was a prolific writer who believed in getting as much text on paper as quickly as possible. He'd to talk into a dictaphone machine and then mail the wax cylinders (this was ~1920) to London for transcription. We could probably improve on this process, lately. I'm wondering if Dragon would be good enough for a complete (if inaccurate) draft that could be cleaned up by a hired hand...
I had the same problems as chronicled, but one thing I don't agree on is that you could "farm out" the result since that would short your opportunity to do your revision.
I was just thinking that I could do a draft and modify it by hand later. My idea was to get it down first and then clean it up. I then once I have a product I'm happy with send it off to my editor.
Stephen, You'll find the editing and revision more labor intensive that way...
Nick, again thank you for your input and that was exactly what I was thinking anyhow. Unfortunately Voice software hasn't hit the point where it is able to make editorial changes (When to quote and when not too for example) I think i will just continue the old way. It is not like it is hurting my writing just have to be able to switch gears when my brain does.
Yeah, I had tossed the idea around for awhile, but for all the reasons that others mentioned above, I held off. I figured writing it alone would be clumsy, but re-writing/editing? Oooof...
original question: Just Wondering if anyone has used or is using Dragon (AKA Dragon Naturally Speaking ) to write with.Mind if I comment? I've been using the free app of Dragon on my IPad, and yes it is a PIA. However, if you're like me and still use a pen & paper first before stuffing it into the computer, it has it's uses.
I don't think that I would bother with spending a lot of money, if you can get a hold of a free app you can test it out to see how well it works for you.
I think if you are best able to tell a story verbally as opposed to writing it down because we have different voices when we speak vs when we write, then it might be a good idea, but filled with additional work you'll have to do later to clean up.You'll have to weight the cost/benefits. It'll be worth it if that's the ideal way for you to initially tell the story - just to get it out.
Otherwise, I think it's the laziest idea I've heard in a while (if it's just to avoid the labor of typing) and it gave me a scary thought - considering how many awful books are self-published, imagine a time when people (amateurs) just record a story into a digital voice recorder in one take and publish it as an audio-book. {shudder}
They're essentially doing the written equivalent now with self-publishing ebooks.
(I know I'm straying off-topic but that's my pet peeve of the month - people who don't care to make sure their writing is fit for print.)
I was looking for something too as I have carpel tunnel syndrome and some days typing is painful. A gal I know with the same issue got Dragon, but she still had to train it. I just got an iPad with Siri in it and I'm impressed. I talk it types and it didn't matter if I was speaking or my daughter.Here's what it does http://www.apple.com/ios/siri/
Edward wrote: "I think if you are best able to tell a story verbally as opposed to writing it down because we have different voices when we speak vs when we write, then it might be a good idea, but filled with ad..."Your vision of otherwise illiterate idjits writing stories with voice recognition software reminds me of the Borges story, "The Library of Babel." Elsewhere, in non-fiction, the internet is increasingly being filled with content mill drivel, making it harder to find actual, useful information.
This is a different idea, but it works for me. I have a microphone app on my cell phone so I dictate into it. That way I don't have to keep stopping and checking what my Dragon is typing.
Stephen wrote: "Just Wondering if anyone has used or is using Dragon (AKA Dragon Naturally Speaking ) to write with. I have been kicking the idea around a little bit and think the investment would be worthwhile. B..."I broke my wrist last year so had no better choice than to try it. It was great when it worked but had a lot of bugs. Upgraded to latest version a few months ago, and I love it. It suits the way I work, which is writing first drafts longhand, then transcribing and editing. Saves a ton of time, even when you factor in corrections.
It really is going to depend on how you work. I tried a similar type program, and found although it was probably ok for dialogue and speech patterns, it was no better than me writing it out. And it was terrible for how I write, which is I go 5 paragraphs, realize I need to change something in paragraph one, then bouncing back and forth. much easier to do that by hand.Also, it made me start summarizing action like crazy, instead of making precise word choices.
but that's just me. Others might find it helpful.
I'm relatively new to writing for others, but I've used Dragon after I write. I prefer to scribble my stories on real paper and then dictate to Dragon in "bite-sized" pieces. Though Dragon only writes what you teach it, so you have to speak all of the punctuation and paragraph marks, as well as speak clearly and loudly.
I find that dictating to Dragon makes me really read what I am saying. For short stories or small documents, it's pretty nice to have.
Just an FYI though, Dragon does not understand humor, or any other emotion, so read as if you were mono-tonal and have no personality.
Hi everyone. I use Dragon to "write." I have service-connected injuries (Afghanistan) that prevents me from typing so I just speak into my microphone and let the computer do the typing for me. I'm not going to let a little disability slow me down.
I had been mulling it over, but since writing fast like the crazy NaNo participate I am I have realised that I don't need it. I can easily write 1000 words in an hour, the spelling punctuation and grammar are all appalling, but the creativity is flowing.This chat had enforced my belief that I do not need a Dragon in my life at the moment.
I use Dragon every day at work, and I try to limit my use as much as possible. In theory, it would make a lot of sense, and 95% of the time, the program 'transcribes' correctly. But that 5% can be deadly. It messes up contractions every once in a while, which completely changes the meaning of a sentence. The words "in" and "and" are always mixed up...The thing is, the same errors don't occur for everyone, but errors will occur. The editing of the typos of even a short story written with Dragon would be daunting.
I would not do it.
I bought Dragon a couple of years ago, tried it once or twice, gave up. I type very fast, but sometimes I want to write with my eyes closed, speaking what comes to me without worrying about moving my hands. I used to do this with conventional recording equipment and a Dictaphone transcriber. Those are now as out-dated as dragons with wings! When was the last time you saw a tape cassette?So I tried Dragon. Didn't work for me. For one thing, it kept stopping to ask a question while I went ahead speaking with my eyes closed. Thankfully I was making a back-up recording on separate equipment. The copy was a mess and I never did bother to correct it.
I still tell myself one day I will try using a compatible digital recorder, then babysitting it while Dragon transcribes from the recording, but whew, that's a lot of work. I've just been writing strictly at my trusty keyboard, 100 wpm. Probably should close my eyes! ;-)
I just reviewed Dragon in my podcast so you might be interested in a listen: http://writingtalkpodcast.com/episode...
I tried Dragon a few years ago and actually wrote a whole novel with it. But it was more tiring to enunciate clearly and speak all the punctuation. And when you write genres like SF and have alien names and technology, it becomes a complete nightmare. Plus there are too many words that sound identical and require letter by letter spelling. In the end, the effort to correct and edit the manuscript was far worse than typing.I'm not a home at the moment but when I normally write there I invested in a good keyboard (Razer) with individual switches for each key, and typing is an absolute pleasure because the typing stroke is much shorter and lighter.
I would really recommend that everyone learns to touch type. It doesn't take very long. It is my most useful skill. I always compose directly onto my computer and I type at about 70 words per minute. I would no sooner think of writing something out first of all than fly to the moon. In the past it has been looked on a something that you learn at a secretarial college, in this country, but in many other countries, it is a skill that every child at school learns.
Well, Josie, "Fly Me To the Moon" (as Tony Bennett might say/sing).*s*
I've been typing since I was 13 (60 years now) and the vast majority of my novels and novellas have been written from brain to fingertips to keyboard to screen pixels.
However, as I usually read while watching television or a DVD, I sometimes also work on a book in progress instead. I've been doing that recently with episodes of Inspector Morse and Inspector Lewis.
Rather than fooling around with transferring the file to my laptop or tablet and then trying to type on the kitchen table, I write by hand. In a 90-minute episode, depending on how hooked I get on the story and how much Mike the Manly Muse (I write MM romances) inspires me, I can get 400-900 words down.
It doesn't take that long to type them up, tweaking as I go. So it's a method that works for me.
Just my USD .02.
Eric-the-ever-pennies-offering
Josie, I couldn’t agree more. I learned to touch type in 1976 and I write everything on my computer. I used to write rough drafts by hand, but arthritis prevents that now. I once watched a TV program about writers that showed Salman Rushdie typing with two fingers on a manual typewriter. Can you imagine typing a 1000-page novel like The Satanic Verses with two fingers? Yikes!
Spent my formative years as a reporter using a manual Royal with 6 carbons. Now 40 years later...still at it. Nothing by 2 fingers (okay...thumb is space bar). However, I am brutal on keyboards. Looking to steam punk the keyboard from a Remington onto my iMac! Tried Dragon once...years back. If you love autocorrect on your phone, you will love Dragon!
G. wrote: "Josie, I couldn’t agree more. I learned to touch type in 1976 and I write everything on my computer. I used to write rough drafts by hand, but arthritis prevents that now. I once watched a TV progr..."Here's a link to an article from the British Medical Journal, March 11, 1911, on the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis with dilute phosphoric acid and phosphates. You might find it interesting to read.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic...
J. wrote: "Here's a link to an article from the British Medical Journal, March 11, 1911, on the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis with dilute phosphoric acid and phosphates. You might find it interesting to read."I don’t have rheumatoid arthritis; I have osteoarthritis. It isn’t really bad, but it causes my hand to cramp up if I write more than one line. The first line will look fair, albeit somewhat shaky. By the third line my writing degenerates into what looks like some kind of hieroglyphics. Unreadable. But I do so much typing—which I can do without triggering arthritic symptoms—that it has become second nature to me.
You can buy the next most recent version of Dragon cheaply from eBay or Amazon. The newest version is always the most expensive but a perfectly functional version can be had, with headphones/mic for well under $50.00.It's useless for fiction with a lot of dialog. It will get it down but you'll have to go back and put in all the quote marks and all the nuances of real human speech because it will just butcher anything you try to say that would sound like an actual conversation sounds.
What it's useful for is non-fiction and exposition. You can use it for your blog posts, emails, articles, etc. I also use it for my fiction templates. I don't outline. Instead, I lay out my blank chapters and then I go down through them and lay out key points, thoughts, notes and memory jogs chapter by chapter with it. Once that's done, I turn to the keyboard to fill in the story.
Um...Anne, I mean no disrespect but your description sure sounds like outlining to me.Before you start actually writing you figure out how many chapters there are going to be (with or without chapter names, whatever your preference is). Then you go through all the chapters and jot down notes about the content for each one.
Then you go back to the beginning...or whichever chapter strikes your fancy, if you happen to write non-linearly, as I do...and start filling in the words to make that chapter happen.
Are you sure this isn't outlining?
And this is, by the way, just some gentle teasing. No offense was intended and I hope none is taken.
Eric-the-ever-teasing
Anne wrote: "You can buy the next most recent version of Dragon...It's useless for fiction with a lot of dialog. It will get it down but you'll have to go back and put in all the quote marks..."It sounds as if it would have to be supplemented with macros and autocorrect. This could explain why Cormac McCarthy omits punctuation.
G. wrote: "...I have osteoarthritis. It isn’t really bad, but it causes my hand to cramp up...I do so much typing—which I can do without triggering arthritic symptoms—that it has become second nature to me..."Sounds like you're making the best of the situation, G. I'm planning on trying Dragon eventually and using macros to do corrections, or turning the m/s over to an editor to sweep up the Dragon poop. In the meantime, I'm managing the rheumatoid arthritis with NaH2PO4 and Na2HPO4 so I don't have to take NSAIDs.
J. wrote: " I'm managing the rheumatoid arthritis with NaH2PO4 and Na2HPO4 so I don't have to take NSAIDs"Interesting. I never heard of that application for those chemicals. I’m not allowed to take NSAIDs because of the danger of a bleeding stomach ulcer (I had one about a year ago that required transfusions of 7 units [read: pints] of blood). My doctor put me on hydrocodone. Fortunately, I do not have an addictive personality (it’s some kind of gene, I believe), as I took huge amounts of it—as much as 70 mg per day—when I had a serious back problem in 2010. When I went cold turkey after the back improved, I never missed the HC at all.
G. wrote: "J. wrote: " I'm managing the rheumatoid arthritis with NaH2PO4 and Na2HPO4 so I don't have to take NSAIDs"Interesting. I never heard of that application for those chemicals...I had a serious back problem in 2010. When I went cold turkey after the back improved, I never missed the HC at all..."
Lucky! I had a relative with "the gene." Oddly, HC was the only drug she never abused, even though she took it for long periods. Blood chemistry varies with the drug and the person taking it.
An early analgesic, a morphine substitute, was synthesized by a team of three German researchers. They tested it on themselves, and not one of them became addicted. The drug was heroin.
Slightly off topic - perhaps - but I was intrigued by this article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scien...
It argues that typing with one hand can improve the quality of your writing because it makes you slow down and think about what you are writing. Maybe, just maybe, there is a trade-off to be made between the speed at which we can type and the quality of our writing. Faster isn't always best.
Will wrote: "Slightly off topic - perhaps - but I was intrigued by this article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scien......"
It's an academic article, so of course "better" is taken as indicating more academic, which usually means "more high-flown," harder to understand, unnecessarily grandiloquent. "Worse" supposedly = less complicated and with a narrower vocabulary. I can give my opinion of this study with two one-syllable words. I shall type them two handed. But not here.
Will wrote: "It argues that typing with one hand can improve the quality of your writing because it makes you slow down and think about what you are writing."Huh! I thought you were supposed to think about what your were writing before you start writing it.
G. wrote: "Will wrote: "It argues that typing with one hand can improve the quality of your writing because it makes you slow down and think about what you are writing."Huh! I thought you were supposed to think about what your were writing before you start writing it. t..."
Most people don't think before speaking; why would they think before writing?
J. wrote: “Most people don’t think before speaking; why would they think before writing?”Why? Because writing is a totally different endeavor than talking to someone. I agree with your first clause. I disagree with the implied meaning of your second clause. I cannot be the only writer who thinks before writing. Maybe that’s the difference between good writers and poor writers. (And I don’t type fast—as touch typists go—I put down perhaps 30 words per minute. Plus, I make so many typos that I have to copy edit as I go along.)
J. wrote: "G. wrote: "Will wrote: "It argues that typing with one hand can improve the quality of your writing because it makes you slow down and think about what you are writing."Huh! I thought you were su..."
Actually I do think before I speak. That's why I'm not much of a conversationalist. :)
But as for writing, I do think through every sentence and paragraph before and during typing. And since I write linearly, I can't create chapters in advance.
My 2 cents. I purchased Dragon 4 years ago, hoping tyo "speed up" my writing. My first problem, after the learning curve and allowing it to recognize my voice, was the many , MANY typos. It would put in wrong words every few lines. It took longer to correct than to just type. And this is coming from a 58 year old man who still types with two fingers. Never learned to type. If I am going to invest in a learning curve, I need to take online typing lessi=ons, although I have done 6 books, and thousands of magazine articles this way. About Dragon, my other issue is, I am sitting there hands free, and cannot for the life of me create. I have to remember at the end of a sentence toi say the word "period," of "comma." I use it sometimes like the other member said for one or two pages, but in novels and my music books, it really interupts my flow.
When I had a PC, I sed Dragon for about 10 years and loved it. Sure, I had to teach it to recognize my voice but I was even able to teach it to recognize words in Spanish. Once I got my Mac three years ago, however, I was disappointed in the program. I purchased Dragon for Macs but that version is nothing like the PC version. I've played around with Google voice and I like it better. Well, that's my $.02!
Will wrote: "Slightly off topic - perhaps - but I was intrigued by this article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scien......"
If I'm writing longhand, "faster" means "harder to decipher later."
If I'm typing, the faster I can type, the faster I can turn out a book--if I'm sure about what I'm typing. Typing tutorials advise you alternate typing for speed and typing for accuracy to improve your overall speed.
Of course, that assumes I have a strong idea of what I'm going to write. Typing skill does nothing when you change your mind five times about which way a sentence is going.
Frances wrote: "When I had a PC, I sed Dragon for about 10 years and loved it. Sure, I had to teach it to recognize my voice but I was even able to teach it to recognize words in Spanish. Once I got my Mac three y..."I've tried Dragon off and on; either it couldn't hear what I was saying, or it heard my breathing and tried to transcribe it. And after I'd dictate to it a while, it would start dropping the spaces as it put them into the word processor. And while I can babble to myself nonstop almost anytime, stick a mic in front of me and the words suddenly dry up (no, I don't have a problem with public speaking, only having the every blunder and nuance of my voice being captured for possible later dissection and ridicule).
G. wrote: "J. wrote: “Most people don’t think before speaking; why would they think before writing?”Why? Because writing is a totally different endeavor than talking to someone. I agree with your first clau..."
"If you look, you might not leap."
Many writers use "type something, anything" rules to force themselves to knock out a first draft, often with the stipulation that they can't stop typing or even go back to correct typos. It's a defense against the internal editor rising up and nipping your little literary rose off before it even buds.
Wendy wrote: "I've tried Dragon off and on; either it couldn't hear what I was saying, or it heard my breathing and tried to transcribe it..."I heard a commentator on NPR years ago, when Dragon first introduced its voice transcription program. She had tried out the software, and while she was speaking, her dog barked repeatedly in the background. Upon reading the transcription, she was disgusted with the results. Her words were nonsense, and the dog's words were unadulterated poetry. Now she was jealous of the dog's literary prowess!
;-)
Obviously, Dragon software and others of its ilk have improved exponentially since then!
