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Goodreads Joins the Amazon Family
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Do y'all think this is good thing or not? Will they still allow links to B&N, smashwords, Kokb, etc? Or will they need an exclusive like they require for KDP Select? I'm kind of nervous about this myself.
Advertising and the use of our profiles for marketing. Here it comes....
They must buy my book first, before they market to me.
Of course I'm concerned. Any normal writer is.
Amazon acquiring GoodReads is a time for great celebration, and the reason I’m making this offer.Hi I'm Saul Weber, a retired NYC civil servant for the past three years after having work for the same agency for over 33 years. I wrote my first children's book [an early reader], "A Lesson My Cat Taught Me" in 2005, which conveys the idea of the acceptance of others for who they are and not what they are.
A Lesson My Cat Taught Me
It finally got picked up by a small press
publisher and was released in November 2007. When my contract ended in March 2010, I made the decision to self-publish it, and it got released on October 2, 2010. In the Fall of 2009 my book was made a recommended resource by Teaching Tolerance in their magazine.
The current edition of my book was made a runner-up in the 2011 Sharp Writ Awards - Children's Book Category. The link for information about this award can be found in the description for the book on Amazon and the link provided below.
I've completed two more manuscripts also for early reader books, and I'm slowly writing a fourth.
The reason I’m writing this is to celebrate this wondrous event and to offer everyone a 10% discount from now until April 15, 2013, when the book is ordered through the e-store on CreateSpace when the code
943VBC2K
is entered when checking out.
The link to order my book through the e-store is:
https://www.createspace.com/3447169
You can still order my book through Amazon [the link has been provided above]
So will all authors on the site start seeing their reviews of other authors' books taken down? ;-)
I sure hope not. I have been a victim of that. Two, five star reviews that someone gave me, and I didn't know either one of these people, were taken off Amazon with no explanation.
I'm thinking Amazon will have to re-think their position on posting book links as subtle promotional strategies. Right now, they are very strict about that even in the "Author Forums" of their Discussion Boards. (I completely understand their prohibiting outright self-promotion in the Readers' Forums/Groups, as well as GRs' policy on this). One example of this prohibition: They don't allow authors to post links to their Goodreads' giveaways (even in their Author Forums), which I never understood as it would seem this could drive more business their way. (I know it's being done all of the time, but some authors' posts with these links in them have been deleted). Actually, I wonder if Amazon will link the GRs' Author Profiles to theirs--I haven't had any success with my Author Page on Amazon. Has anyone else?
P.S. I had a feeling something major was up when Amazon made the "Like" and "tag" programs for book pages extinct--not sure if they've done this for non-book products--I haven't bought anything other than a book from them since they altered these programs.
This is bad news.Lots of people on here use Smashwords and have a Nook.
And just look at how Saul has managed to hijack this thread to spam us with his sodding book.
Jesus wept.
I love the groups and sense of community on Goodreads. I worry that Amazon will turn it into little more than a marketing arm of its book division. That would be bad. Very bad. And I say this as someone who buys books through Amazon all the time.
Michael wrote: "This is bad news.Lots of people on here use Smashwords and have a Nook.
And just look at how Saul has managed to hijack this thread to spam us with his sodding book.
Jesus wept."
There's always one. At least one. No more, right?
To the greater issue at hand, I think for those that have heavily marketed on the Amazon route, or gone the Select path (admittedly I'm among them at present) it will be decidedly good. Without question, I should say, there'll be some nifty integration going on, and they'll hopefully make cross-posting reviews easier, thereby knocking back some of the nuisance to reviewers. Will those reviewers probably have an Amazon-certified label (or not) stuck next to their name now? Well, who knows.
For everyone else? Worry is surely commonsense. Alexes is right--the fear they could just morph it into another piece of their marketing arm is certainly real. I hope they wouldn't. I think they shouldn't. I can't imagine they would want to damage relations with their community like that, or the established goodreads community (and am likewise hoping some things like that have been discussed in the deal).
In the same vein, though, I doubt--I really do--that they would outright eliminate connections with B&N, Smashwords, etc. Will they bury those links or make them harder to reach/finagle with? Probably. I would never say otherwise. But unless they want to implode a goodly chunk of the community that undoubtedly made this place so attractive to their marketers' eyes in the first place, commonsense (I know, I dared to use the word in a marketing context) tells me they shall refrain on that note.
Speculation. What a special game it is.
On the main announcement page, nearly ALL those who are happy about this buy-out are Kindle owners. The lure of possibly being able to link your accounts--of "only" having to do a review in one place instead of two!--is too much for laziness to ignore.But for those who don't have Kindles, who don't want their reviews sported on the Amazon Giant, who don't want to join any biased programs . . . Well, I'm not sure you'll get a say. Ginormous corporations get to be that way by making money and not caring who gets stepped on in the process (why don't they care? Well, duh, they can't see you from way up there on their golden chairs).
Here's my main beef with this. Amazon is a competition-stomper. They'll give you a lot of service and good feelings . . . In exchange for a backrub--oh, yeah, and your soul! Now, I'm no professional soothsayer, but I expect we'll soon see a lot less competitor presence on GR, a lot more ads, more perks available only to those with Amazon's Select programs, and definitely more "top purchases" pushed by the Am Man.
And a little head wiggle's supposed to make me happy? Hm?
I guess its like a company that lays off most of their workers. The optimistic ones are the ones that get to keep their jobs.(PS....Princess Bride reference noted and appreciated.)
Michael wrote: "This is bad news.Lots of people on here use Smashwords and have a Nook.
And just look at how Saul has managed to hijack this thread to spam us with his sodding book.
Jesus wept."
That is hilarious!
Dean wrote: "I guess its like a company that lays off most of their workers. The optimistic ones are the ones that get to keep their jobs.(PS....Princess Bride reference noted and appreciated.)"
Glad someone noticed! ;-)
Chris wrote: "Michael wrote: "This is bad news.Lots of people on here use Smashwords and have a Nook.
And just look at how Saul has managed to hijack this thread to spam us with his sodding book.
Jesus wept...."
Great points made. I'm on KDP select at the moment, and I hadn't thought about the obvious marketing benefits.
What do you think this means for Shelfari? Phasing out? Integration?
Kyle wrote: "Great points made. I'm on KDP select at the moment, and I hadn't thought about the obvious marketing benefits.What do you think this means for Shelfari? Phasing out? Integration? "
I haven't really bothered with Shelfari. I popped along several months ago, and the groups seemed dead.
Oh, this is very, very bad news. Amazon requires proof of purchase for anyone to post reviews. I’ve posted lots of reviews or stars of past reads that I never purchased on Amazon, including classics and older releases that I bought before Amazon even existed.Once Amazon gets their teeth sunk into restricting what and how reviewers compose their lists and rank their books or libraries, we’re all cooked. Reflections and reviews of older books will sink.
Only new releases that make money for Amazon through fresh sales will get backstage support. They've already started making their peace with the Big 6 publishers and having built the Kindle on the back of indie freebies, started sending out memos to authors who complain of slow reports that its time to go exclusive with Amazon and drop other sales distribution channels.
The wonderful thing about Goodreads was that it was independent. It was a vibrant community that had its share of trolls, but at least it was independent of Amazon’s algorithms. It offered a completely different spread of data.
Now, let me get this straight—Amazon owns ALL THREE reader’s platforms, Shelfari, Library Thing, Goodreads, plus their own reviewing sections??
They neglected Library Thing, which I also love for its long and thoughtful reviews, and particularly value for its Library Thing Early Reviewer scheme and it seems that they just killed Shelfari with equal neglect. Are they trying to improve Goodreads or kill it off, too?
How could any update of a clunky interface compensate for the complete monopoly Amazon has just wrested from the marketplace over discoverability?
At what point now does Amazon strangle out reviews and comments on books not purchased via Amazon? At what point do they start to skew the ratings and recommendations towards the books they themselves publish and sell through their own publishing arm? At what point do they push KDP Select books to the disadvantage of classics sold for free, and away from indie authors who publish directly to the iBookstore, Sony, Kobo, etc or via the distribution channels of Smashwords?
At what point does someone else try yet again to set up a reading platform that works, is user-friendly and is independent of Amazon?
I think when I read that Amazon has acquired Smashwords, I’ll just go drink my lethal dose of henbane and lie down in submission.
And one more thing. Did Otis Chandler consider, as he pocketed some enormous sum of money for selling GR, that he's just done an Arianna Huffington?Made a great deal of profit off the backs of thousands of volunteer librarians and reviewers without any true regard for why they contributed to an independent site?
Do those commendable volunteer librarians now want to labor hour upon hour cataloguing and correcting for free to enhance a Jeff Bezos product line?
I not a writer, I'm just a reader. I do own a kindle but prefer paper books when I read. I use this site to keep track of what I own, have read, liked and didn't like as well as to find new books & authors I've never heard of. I am not a fan of amazon as I think there site is not very informative on products/books they are selling not because I think they are an evil company. I would have preferred not to have my goodreads information shared with any company that sells anything.
I am withholding judgement on this for now. As long as I am allowed to freely express my opinion on books I've read and they continue to allow authors (new and established) to promote themselves on GR so I can connect with them then I have no issues with this sale.
Here's an article that makes the case that about some of the positives that could come from this deal:http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/20...
Peggy wrote: "I sure hope not. I have been a victim of that. Two, five star reviews that someone gave me, and I didn't know either one of these people, were taken off Amazon with no explanation."Same thing happened to me - three 5-star reviews were taken off and a 4 star by a GR author never posted on Amazon. But I checked yesterday and reviews I've given to authors in mystery/crime categories are still there. Don't understand it!
Melissa wrote: "I not a writer, I'm just a reader. I do own a kindle but prefer paper books when I read. I use this site to keep track of what I own, have read, liked and didn't like as well as to find new book..."No worries, Melissa. I'm both a writer and a reader, and I'm not worried at all. We're all tracked all the time anyway, and if Goodreads' reader trends and traffic can improve discoverability for deserving but under-publicized books, then hooray! Actually, I see this as a good thing for Goodreads, as there will now be funding for all the bells and whistles... and more librarians/mods. I've seen this acquisition referred to as Amazon "taking the high road" with regard to industry-wide acquistion behavior, and I think that it does open up Goodreads, not shut it down or make it less viable.
Nancy wrote: "Peggy wrote: "I sure hope not. I have been a victim of that. Two, five star reviews that someone gave me, and I didn't know either one of these people, were taken off Amazon with no explanation."..."It may be the same genre? Or if they were written before the new rules? Who knows...
Amazon have increased their fees for hosting traders by as much as 70%. How soon books and authors? The 'family' thing is to make it sound natural and benign. We can hope. :)
Hey, it's business. It's all about sales, but I find retail an honest expression. I'm not afraid of something that is what it is, you know? Utilizing the free, un-parsed opinion and discussion that GR contributors provide can only help sell books, and make more books discoverable. I think books and authors are relatively safe from onerous fees, since there are no associated costs (except with print books) when it comes to distribution. I used to be a Marketplace partner on Amazon, but they were more expensive than Ebay, so I went back to Ebay. I once got an email that one of Amazon's Marketplace booksellers was selling one of my titles in trade paper, used, for $213.95! LOL! If they can actually find customers that way, more power to 'em!
So, I see that last night LibraryThing founder Tim Spalding had a rather evocative commentary on the announcement as well, saying notably: "With Amazon in the drivers' seat, you can bet that B&N, Kobo and Indies are going to drop and be dropped by Goodreads like a hot potato. If any non-Amazon "buy" buttons remain, they're going to be buried deep. And B&N is hardly going to encourage people to use Goodreads now that every item of data Goodreads get goes to build Amazon and the Kindle features Goodreads is promising."
And it is rather sobering that Amazon now owns 100% of all the competing review sites. Urk. Perhaps bits of my earlier commentary need a touch of revision...
The full article's here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/152033
Melissa wrote: "I not a writer, I'm just a reader. I do own a kindle but prefer paper books when I read. I use this site to keep track of what I own, have read, liked and didn't like as well as to find new book..."Thanks, Melissa. It's good to get the opinion of a reader.
Chris wrote: "So, I see that last night LibraryThing founder Tim Spalding had a rather evocative commentary on the announcement as well, saying notably: "With Amazon in the drivers' seat, you can bet that B&N,..."
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant!
I understand that. I'm just not convinced that Amazon would waste such a useful source as GR. The whole burying the buy buttons was another thing entirely having to do with Amazon's fighting with their suppliers. Goodreads is too useful to turn it into just a sycophant site. Or maybe they are idiots and ravenous monsters and I'll need to revise my opinions!
Mod
I personally think Goodreads could have given Amazon a run for their money had Goodreads ventured into selling books on the site. Distribution would have been a non-issue with e-books, and Goodreads could have partnered with Barnes and Noble (or some other third party company) for access to an e-reading device. Or they could have charged a flat fee for clicks to Amazon and other sites that lead to book sales.
But I do realize the founders of Goodreads were likely aware of these options and somehow thought the best decision was to sell to Amazon.
I'm sure Amazon's mega $$$ helped influence the decision.
Chris wrote: "So, I see that last night LibraryThing founder Tim Spalding had a rather evocative commentary on the announcement as well, saying notably: "With Amazon in the drivers' seat, you can bet that B&N,..."
Thanks for this post. I'd wondered about Library Things relationship with Amazon and that cleared it up. It was interesting to hear LT's take on this matter. Also interesting that they respond to comments, while Goodreads has been rather silent.
Also, here's another post about our giant friend Amazon.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...
Dinah wrote: "Amazon requires proof of purchase for anyone to post reviews..."Actually, not true; they just add the "verified purchase" flag to the ones left by people who bought through Amazon. I've been slowly copying my GR reviews to Amazon and have yet to have any of them refused because I didn't buy the book through them.
That only works if you are an Amazon customer. If you haven't purchased something from them, you can't leave a review, as you have to login to do so.
LibraryThing is partially owned by Amazon. Shelfari is owned by Amazon and as an author information you add to Shelfari about your books can be integrated into your book description pages. Will the same apply to Goodreads information?From what I've been reading, reviewers on Goodreads *don't* want their reviews posted to Amazon.
Will be interesting how it shakes out.
Richard wrote: "That only works if you are an Amazon customer. If you haven't purchased something from them, you can't leave a review, as you have to login to do so."Yes, but you don't have to buy the book you're reviewing in order to review it.
Vincent wrote: "I guess the true test is to see how Amazon has changed Shelfari and LibraryThing, two social networks that operate under Amazon's umbrella. According to sources who work at Goodreads, Amazon has ke..."I agree, Vincent, and I am optimistic. I agree to a modicum of trepidation, based on what others have mentioned about Amazon's review-site monopoly. No one likes to see a monopoly... However, I really like Amazon - both as a shopper and as a self-publisher (no one else makes either experience less painful, and many other entities could have done so by now) - and I am hoping for a smooth and friendly coexistence. I adore GR and hope that not much changes, except for the better.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
I think this will be a good liason for all involved. Amazon is in the business of selling books! The more books they sell by whatever means they acquire is good for us authours, right? I see this as a positive connection; it's all good!
I, like Melissa, am not an author. I've been dabbling, but nothing substantial yet. I've been an avid reader all my life and books and people that love books, bring me great happiness. I have to admit that I dislike change when I find something I like so this is a bit disheartening for me. I only hope that they don't constantly try to market to us and provide our information to others without warning. I've experienced similar buy outs where I received a barrage of spam coming from companies I had never heard of only to learn it was due to the purchaser of sites I was subscribed to.Fingers crossed that it has minimal impact for us Goodreads folks.
Alan wrote: "I think this will be a good liason for all involved. Amazon is in the business of selling books! The more books they sell by whatever means they acquire is good for us authours, right? I see this a..."Be careful what you wish for. It may just end up being a circle of authors sitting around, trying to sell books to one another. This site has more to offer than that.
Dean wrote: "Alan wrote: "I think this will be a good liason for all involved. Amazon is in the business of selling books! The more books they sell by whatever means they acquire is good for us authours, right?..."I'm not wishing for anything really, I just believe in making the most of whatever comes along. Amazon have bought Goodreads and they already have my book. I had nothing to do with that and it's not like this is the only venue either. I just joined because someone posted my book on here and it looked like a good way to reach readers, acquire some feedback etc. Progress is progress and if Amazon want this site, so be it.
Barnes and Noble partnered with independent book publisher, iUniverse. In addition, I understand Penguin Books is now owner of iUniverse. Did you know book publishers had pounced on Amazon concerning their discounting books? For more information, read June 2012 issue of The New Yorker.
A few months ago, I researched Smashwords and Lulu to publish my book. At that time, on their site, they informed prospective clients they were not advertising with Amazon. I have not visited their site since. I hope this is not ongoing. I am an avid book and music buyer on Amazon.
Urenna
Dinah wrote: "profit off the backs of thousands of volunteer librarians and reviewers without any true regard for why they contributed to an independent site?"A valuable point. As many groups and communities elsewhere begin to find ways to work cooperatively to counter-balance the power of large corporations and banks, we see some moving in the other direction, even though their success, as has always been the case, is won from the labour and suppport of a myriad of others. This is another small step backwards in a society trying to forge new ways of working from the exploitative legacy of the 19th C.
The way I see it, how about,let's not fix what ain't broken. If Amazon ownes all these other book sites as well, have they changed them much? If so what are those changes? Goodreads has become successful on it's own with the recipe they use, why not just leave it the way it is after buying it. Let it run successfully the way it is. Personally I would think that would be better for Amazon, better time management. Of course for their advantage they would have bigger ad spots but Amazon has connections with the mom & pop book shops which sell through them, how bad have they made out with things company? Oh and these are actual questions from me cause I really would like to know if the mom & pop bookshops are not getting cheated with their connections to Amazon.
I'm not sure what to think of Amazon and Goodreads being joint now. I really hope that they don't come in and try to change Goodreads -- there are some helpful/interesting things on Amazon's platform Shelfari, which is similar to Goodreads (I wonder if it will disappear now?) that might be good to have added to GR, but I would hate for them to change anything as far as how GR operates -- as far as taking things away. It will be very interesting to see what comes next.
I wonder if now they will have it to where you can sell Kindle books through GR, too, instead of having to go to Amazon?
I wonder if now they will have it to where you can sell Kindle books through GR, too, instead of having to go to Amazon?
If not, here is the press release.
What's amazing is that this site has over 30,000 groups on it.
Our little group is number #7 on that long list. :)
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.z...