Truth
discussion
Loving rapists and murderers
I think it's the ability to separate real world from fictional world. I suffer from PTSD, from being in an abusive relationship with the father of my children for years.. I am still pretty broken and not a whole person yet, so abuse freaks me out in the real world.. If I see it, I get freaked out.. However in the books.. it doesn't bother me.. something about KNOWING that it is all fake.. it is an author writing it down from her own head, it's not something that really happened. If this subject were to be written into a non fictional story, I would NOT read it.. That is all I am saying.. The fact that this person pretends to know me and think I am not smart and whatever attempt at hurting me he put out there, just proves he is a very unhealthy person. No one comes onto a site like this and starts those types of attacks, and then in turn decides to play the victim..
It's really sad.. i am done speaking to a person who is so narrow minded and useless in the conversation. My point was defending thing book, and defending the author and most of all, which should not have been necessary at ALL, defending myself and any other woman who he attacked here.. It's all very sad,, but from now on I will talk about the book as some of us were..
Shannon wrote: "Terri, I think you are spot on, I think outside of him kidnapping Clarie, we are going to find out that he did not do half of the things that have happened. Which would kind of redeem him don't you..."I totally agree. I truely believe he loves her and is very remorseful, (let's hope). The "accidents", I don't know, am hoping maybe our wicked housekeeper somehow drugged him and made him believe he did it??? See my mind goes nuts with this book. Anything is possible, we will see i guess.
Ayhan wrote: "And a final note before leaving, go visit Ted Bundy's obituary page. You'll see there are many women there who declared their love, compassion and admiration for that henious rapist and murderer. ..."OMG dude.. get help.. seriously.. get help..
Ayhan wrote: "Shellody,Lol so you are in " team Travis " ?:) No worries, i won't criticise you:) Travis is a saint comparing to Tony or Caleb:) Did you read Walking Disaster?
[spoilers removed]
Ah Anne Rice ..."
Ayhan…nope, not “Team Travis”. I just read the book and enjoyed it. Obviously, I’m not a an of violence, but Travis was a little more forgivable to me for two reasons. 1) He was not violent towards Abby and 2) He got into a ring with another consenting adult when he was violent (usually). In real life, I wouldn’t have gotten within 10 feet of Travis, LOL I thought it was a pretty good story, but wasn’t as enamored with it as some. I have not read Walking Disaster, and I’m not sure I intend to. I know, I know…I like to finish a series, but since it’s been so long since I’ve read the original, and don’t feel inclined to re-read it, I’m not sure about the sequel.
I won’t go into the Sleeping Beauty Trilogy too much, but suffice it to say, it’s not a story at all, and I had no issue walking away from it.
Mercy….yes, way to violent, mean, and no compassion or love between the two main characters. I was not ok with any part of the story. I really think the only reason I kept on with it was because I was hoping Lucy would either find someone else or Matthew would have a change of heart. Again, this book was a little too real for me, and neither of those things happened, and I did not enjoy the story at all.
Terri wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Terri, I think you are spot on, I think outside of him kidnapping Clarie, we are going to find out that he did not do half of the things that have happened. Which would kind of rede..."That's what I love most about the books.. anything can happen and it does.. I love being kept on my toes when I am reading a book. When books are predictable they are boring, and you could never say that about this series.. Your points are really interesting and could totally work.. She has to be a bigger part than we believe right now, I just know i had a bad feeling about her in the end of the book.
Ok, on to general comments now…first, I realize that I’ve been sitting on the fence in this discussion, so I guess it’s time to end that. I genuinely see both sides, I’m not just trying to be difficult, but I definitely lean towards Ayhan’s line of thinking, just not necessarily how he conveys his message. Maybe it’s cultural, maybe it’s just brutal honesty, but either way, I think his delivery is clouding the message.Ayhan, when you say things like “you are just irrational, naïve, and a little gullible” people tend to shut out what you are saying and just hear an attack. At this point, we are no longer discussing the book, we are discussing personal tastes, values and opinions, and that conversation is not going to get us anywhere.
In Ayhan’s defense, however, I do believe he is truly is concerned about what the larger implications of glorifying this type of story could be. Again, the delivery could use some work, but he has a point here. Human Trafficking is a very real problem in the world today, and romanticizing it is not healthy. I think most of those who read this book realize this, and the long-term implications are negligible, but I do see the concern.
I know I come off as terribly naïve when I say I avoid dark reads, information, the news. In reality, I’m about the furthest thing from it. I don’t like these types of books because I’ve see horrible violence against people in real life. I don’t like to read it or watch it in my free time. That being said, I know everyone handles these types of things differently. Maybe you enjoy it because your life has been free from such violence or negativity, and this is a reminder of how thankful you are that it has been that way. Or maybe, you are like me, and you work with this type of thing, but when you read it and/or watch it, you know you’ve dealt with worse, and see the ridiculousness of the fiction. Whatever your reasons and/or tastes are, they are yours, and I refuse to judge them.
Another thought to ponder. This has turned into a very gender-specific debate. What if Ayhan was a huge Tony fan? What type of response would we have then?
Edited to add: This has gotten a lot more heated since I started typing...I really think the personal attacks take away from the discussion as a whole, and am not sure this is even worth being a part of at this point.
I don't care what he is a fan of or not a fan of, it's the way he spoke to us as women. he is a male and he came off as a sexist jerk, I can see his opinion and I respected it, and said he didn't have to read it.. and it snowballed. I don't enjoy being personally attacked, and I am glad you side with him.. I don't think he understands or cares how incredibility rude he came out
Rebecca wrote: "I completely agree Shellody! This is what I was saying to him, he has undermined his own argument. All along have leaned towards agreeing with him. I have constantly said the problem is not his opi..."exactly Rebecca, I could see his point, but it's the way he chose to talk to us that I did not like.
Rebecca wrote: "Yes, listen Ayhan I totally understand every single thing you said. I also understand how it may appear symptomatic of a corrupted society. But please! We read for enjoyment, it is as simple as th..."Well said. And please give book 3 a chance and you may be pleasantly surprised..who knows??
I think that is the point.. we like him, not the choices he made.. lol great point Rebecca.
Ayhan, I feel about the same way. I have this twisted loathe Tony but curiosity to see how it all ends so I keep reading the books. They are very well written and do bring out a lot of emotion. I would say I am firmly "Team Harry" but I also think he is too good for Claire. And I think she is partially to blame for the whole mess since she keeps going back to him. I have a friend who was very upset with the books and that they didn't have a disclaimer at the beginning about the physical and mental abuse and stating that is is fiction and they in no way support this type of abuse. She stated this thought on a FB group and was instantly reprimanded for her thought and her post was deleted....so much for free opinions and discussions about the book. Anywho!Also, I appreciate your post and it is a good way to open dialog to discuss opinions (both good and bad) and thoughts on the books. I think I read on Romig's FB page yesterday that she liked to know that her stories made people talk and think whether they liked the characters or not.
This is one of the most bizarre threads on GR ...
If it makes y'all feel any better, this isn't the only place he attacks: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...And yes, I absolutely think it's attacking. Just the language in the first post is attacking anyone who deigned to like Tony. I haven't read this book. I won't read this book because I've seen what it's about and a few reviews make me think I won't enjoy it. Like Shellody, I prefer fluffy. BUT, I'm not going to berate people for their preferences in books. I'm not going to decide that it's some kind of sign about how these people feel about these topics in real life. I'm not going to belittle people for their opinions. I'm not going to berate them for finding something redeeming in what sounds like a horrible character. It's fiction. It's a story. It's unlikely something like this could actually happen in real life. Maybe parts, but not all of it together.
For whatever reason, people are sometimes drawn to dark topics. I don't understand why Ayhan keeps torturing himself with these books he finds so distasteful and then turns around and berates the people who found something about them to like.
Rebecca wrote: "Heather in FL wrote: "If it makes y'all feel any better, this isn't the only place he attacks: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...And yes, I absolutely think it's attacking. Just the l..."
Doesn't it make more sense. I just blocked him.
Heather in FL wrote: "If it makes y'all feel any better, this isn't the only place he attacks: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...And yes, I absolutely think it's attacking. Just the language in the first p..."
I'm so confused, does he realize there is a book 3 ?
i remember long long ago (24 hours or so )when this was a discussion about a book...or at least i thought it was..those were the days :) now I'm a little embarrassed to be a part of this....
Shellody, it is all done I think. I think a few of us blocked the other person and are ready to talk book :)
I read both books and I am NOT a Tony lover, in fact i dislike him immensely. I agree men like Tony that do this things to women should be punished. That being said, I think Aleatha's writing is exceptional. She has a way of pulling you in and honestly i can't wait for book 3 Convicted.
Women should not have to apologize about their reading preferences even if they don't match someone else's "real life" goals and ideals. Ayhan, you should be more concerned about your own need to attack and shame other readers. It seems this isn't the first time you've got off using this same method.
Making the statement that those readers who enjoy the content of this fictional story or the characters depicted should not be in positions of power (wait, I think you said, it shows that women in general should not be in positions of power) is more abusive and culturally dangerous than any fictional male persona this author or these readers could come up with in a lifetime. What appeals to readers in their "fiction" should not be fodder for your "real life" insults and judgements. You may judge these readers on what they do in their real lives, but not on their adult reading preferences.
Your inflammatory statements give you away because they are not actually parallel to the situation in this book. Exploring issues of Stockholm Syndrome and Redemption is acceptable. If you found your limit in that exploration, cool. Some others have different limits in how much they can explore and your harsh criticism of them on this reader-friendly site is tragic , imo.
Your goals here seem more about satisfying some social-emotional need on your part, not on your supposed need to expose the dangers these "idiotic, weak, naive" female readers pose to society at large.
Women (all readers, actually) are allowed to root for an HEA between any persons and in any way and under any circumstances they like without getting an earful of guff from the likes of you or anyone else.
Go review the book yourself, but don't set up thread to reader-shame other GR users. Its against GR policy and you will likely be removed as a user, so tread carefully.
Daisy wrote: "I read both books and I am NOT a Tony lover, in fact i dislike him immensely. I agree men like Tony that do this things to women should be punished. That being said, I think Aleatha's writing is..."Daisy, I agree Althea is a great writer but I loathe Tony and his actions but it makes for fun reading and discussing.
There isn't one reader who will say they don't loathe Tony's actions and very few, if any, who say he should not suffer the consequences of his heinous crimes- even those who find Tony's character complicated and appealing. This thread is a blatant cry for attention from some trollish brute who needs a public streetcorner from which to spout his... whatever this is.
Very eloquently stated, Searock. I couldn't agree more....I really interpreted the first post to be more about the passion against the things portrayed in the book, then things got...what's the right word...wacky? Hateful? Ridiculous? All of the above...So anyone want to talk about the book? Even how we forgive Tony when we couldn't in real life? Or is this so far gone there's no bringing it back?
"A" isn't the only one passionate about the awful things that happened in this book. We've all been passionate about the things portrayed, but somehow, magically, Captain Ayran misconstrued, misunderstood and misinterpreted any of those rational discussions about the crimes committed and their effect on Claire's mental and emotional health and decided that any appeal reader's found in this book or character automatically equaled a universal support and desire for rape, murder and corruption. That is the most short-sighted, inept conclusion I have ever witnessed.Our altruistic, steadfast, brilliant "A" (can't spell it right without looking it up every time), aka Captain Save-a-Ho, appears to be a wolf in sheep's clothing and is really the opposite of steadfast, altruistic or brilliant. He is actually the one who is being flat out assaultive and abusive. Its as though he twisted reader's love for Tony's character and his story as an excuse to then demean and attack the "fangirls" calling them nearly every name in the book (with very little provocation) while he's angry at a fake Tony for dehumanizing and demeaning women? Dissonance much? Overcompensating much? It didn't take "A" long to do it either, he jumped into the victim role quicker than I have seen expert trolls do (which I guess is the key to going on the defensive and lashing out to "protect" oneself). We realize its just a safe position from which to lob grenades and bombs. Is there a prize for that?
Did you notice that his salutation after a diatribe where he is smashing and berating readers, fangirls, weak women, and eventually, the entire gender is, "I'll be back in a few hours!" or "I'll be back tomorrow fangirls! Fire at will!" Or, "don't hold back"!
Yep, he's getting off on it.
*whistles the cuckoo clock song*
Ayhan wrote: "These are crimes Tony committed against Claire:You really said this???
"Those reviews made me think that we should be glad there are not many women around who are in powerful positions or governments or courts, otherwise we all would have messed up as humanity."
With powerful intelligent men like you we are sooooooooo lucky to have our "humanity" intact..... Thank you so much for keeping us women out of any powerful positions, goverments or courts.
Who are you kidding... You sound worse than Tony.
Searock wrote: "Women should not have to apologize about their reading preferences even if they don't match someone else's "real life" goals and ideals. Ayhan, you should be more concerned about your own sick ne..."
Searock wrote: "Women should not have to apologize about their reading preferences even if they don't match someone else's "real life" goals and ideals.
Ayhan, you should be more concerned about your own sick ne..."<
TY Searock..
Mr. Delusional actually said:"Those reviews made me think that we should be glad there are not many women around who are in powerful positions or governments or courts, otherwise we all would have messed up as humanity."
Has he been in a coma, has he seen this planet? I think he is actually getting off on all this attention.
Searock wrote: ""A" isn't the only one passionate about the awful things that happened in this book. We've all been passionate about the things portrayed, but somehow, magically, Captain Ayran misconstrued, misund..."Captain Save-a-Ho (so funny), Marked that he had read the Sweet Savage Love books from back in the 70's and 80's. WTF. Remember Steve/Ginny and the hundreds of times Steve raped her. This guy appears to have some hang-ups.
I love where he says, "if the truth is condescending and I speak the truth, oh well..." or some such egotistical statement. Newsflash, "A": You can say your truth or your opinion that you believe to be truth without being condescending. To be condescending is the direct result of intending to be.
To believe you own the truth simply means you believe in your opinion based on the information you have been exposed to at any given time. The older and wiser I get, the more I realize there is very little absolute truth when it comes to art and literature. My advise to you is get off your high horse and grow up a little. Maybe it will keep you from starting mean-spirited threads for your own entertainment and at the expense of fellow readers in the future.
Jeanie wrote: Remember Steve/Ginny and the hundreds of times Steve raped her. This guy appears to have some hang-ups. I wish I had read those to remember them! Those are on my TBR as classic bodice ripper romances that I need to check out, Jeanie :).
Rebecca, it must have been so disconcerting to realize you were just a target to this guy and not an actual person with whom he could have a discussion. I think you are right, he is only interested in the fight itself. It's his personal entertainment. I'm sure that's why you felt as though you were going insane. There is no room for rational discussion when being rational isn't one of the goals. We are so used to open discourse and generous discussions among readers on this site, its like being blindsided when a Trojan horse like this one comes along.
I am hardly wary of any insult this guy has for me. It would carry absolutely no weight. If any of my friends came into the discussion and said, "hey, I think you are wrong about this Sea", I would take it utterly to heart. But him? Not a chance.
I'm sorry I missed all your comments, Rebecca. I could see he was pretty miffed at you, so they must have been intelligent and thoughtful and balanced. I hope you blocked him for rifling through your bookshelves looking for ways to harass and criticize you. That is such a creeper thing to do when its for ill-purposes like that.
I'm starting to think this guy may be jealous of a fictional character as he so clearly hates the women who profess to love this made up dude. I haven't looked at his profile or shelves, but those who've witnessed this behavior from him previously say he has read tons of this dark fiction yet he is so judgy about it. One would think having reading proclivities of his own, he wouldn't point fingers so much, yeah?
It's a version of slut-shaming (which is not my favorite phrase, but it'll do) to say reader's who enjoy dub-con or non-con material are all sick and should be scorned.
I say, get thee behind me, Captain Save-a-Ho. Nobody needs you to regulate their choices around here.
"A" dude: I think you meant, "way to drop your sick, nasty, shallow attacks over someone just because he didn't like your precious book and murderer?"I know this is gonna bug you cuz you loves the attention, but I didn't read anything after the first sentence. It was so clearly intended for nothing beyond shock and giggles for you that I figured it would be of no benefit and a huge waste of time.
I know being ignored is probably one of your greatest fears and you may even be telling yourself in your most self-soothing voice, "self, she really isn't ignoring you, she really read what you wrote and is just lying about that".
Nope. I really didn't read it. I won't read anything more that you offer in this thread. I will only check in to give my peeps a high five now and then.
Now that I looked at that first sentence again, I realize that there has been no consideration of anything anyone has written so far in discussion.I vote that we kill this thread by not commenting any further since there is no actual discussion to which a contribution would be warranted.
hey ladies, I just flagged him, I also blocked him. I am going to suggest we create another thread so we can all chat on why we like or even do not like Tony. I would love discuss more with you all, but maybe in a more positive and even potentially debatable manner. This is just not healthy anymore and not worth our time :)
Ayhan, take a deep breath and chill! It is everyone's own prerogative to like or not like a fictional character in a book. Yes, I have fun not liking Tony and want to read to see how it all turns out but like any book I don't have to read it if I don't like or agree with the subject matter but we don't need to get so defensive and call those who don't agree with you as paranoid or dumb. Most of us read for fun and entertainment and chat on this board for fun...not to be cruel to each other even if we don't agree on a book. If you don't like the book then don't read it...jessh!
Kelly wrote: "Ayhan, take a deep breath and chill! It is everyone's own prerogative to like or not like a fictional character in a book. Yes, I have fun not liking Tony and want to read to see how it all turns..."You said it, " wait to read it to see how it turns out". He talks as if he wrote the book. None of us know exactly what happened or is going to happen. I know i didn't like what i THOUGHT he may have done but I feel not a lot was 100% proven. Some people did not get a lot of attention as kids and they need to make up for it when they are older. He shouldn't get this much attention.
Wow, this has to be one of the strangest threads I've ever seen. I believe everyone deserves their own opinions but I do have one question Ayhan. You say you don't like these stories and can't believe any woman could be "Team Tony" yet it seems you know an awful lot of these authors works. You've read Consequences, Captive in the Dark and you have discussed books by Kitty Thomas to a great extent, so I ask why torture yourself by continuing to read these authors if you know what they are writing about? And don't tell me you don't know what these stories are about until you read them, they synopsis and the reviews these days pretty much inform you.
I am not trying to attack you, just curious as to why you are reading these books if you apparently don't like them?
Just walked into this discussion; OMG there are a lot of strong opinions about this book and that is fantastic. Books do some wonderful things and one of the most important is to get people thinking and sharing ideas and opinions.I know women who are in abusive relationships (mental and physical) and I have never understood why they haven't put on their shoes and walked out. This book gives us a huge insight into Stockholm Syndrome, brainwashing, empathy, love... okay, I'm not a 100% Tony lover but every book you read is going to enter the character's head and each one of those characters will justify their actions. Who watches Dexter and doesn't squeal when he is about to get caught? Who watched Silence of the Lambs and didn't bite their lip when his past came to light? We all know Tony is seriously f'ed up; we all know we wouldn't put up with it AT ALL...but I bet Claire told herself that as well when she was an emancipated, free and single, living-the-American-dream self-confident woman. When all your choices are taken away from you, when all you are left with is the one person who both sustains and destroys you, who are you left to love? It is human nature to crave affection. The churches are full of people who give themselves over completely to a non-corporeal entity who does exactly the same thing and all because we belong to Him. I know with this last sentence I've dug a whole new well of hate, but I hope you appreciate the analogy I am trying to convey. When death and destruction surround us, when all hope is gone, when the hand of desctruction descends to stroke and soothe...you will accept the comfort.
The book is not all forgiving of Tony's abuses. But Aleatha has done a brilliant job of delving into the incomprehensible (and that is at the crux of the argument) affection given to abusers. We don't understand it - and that is why it is so compelling.
Terri wrote: "My opinion is...In life, I always believe people deserve a second chance, NOBOBY is perfect. That thought also carries over when i read a FICTIONAL book. I also believe with this book SO MUCH is NO..."Well said:)
Fantastic points, Bea. Your analogy to church and religion is incredibly insightful, and kudos to you for having the bravery to make it.You made me realize that I my discomfort with the topic is exactly why I was compelled to finish it. If I limited myself to just those topics I'm comfortable with and understand, I've limited my potential for growth. That's the last thing I want to do.
I'm a math person...I love to solve equations and math problems. I love to be challenged intellectually, and that's why had to finish these books. Learning to love your captor, rapist, and murderer of your parents is a puzzle, and I'd like to challenge myself to understand...even if I don't agree and the concept makes me a little nauseous.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom :)
Ayhan,Thank you for taking the time to answer me. You seem like a smart person and someone who is always looking to learn something new, which I give you credit for.
Now, not looking to be attacked for my opinions, but I will admit I am a fan of the Consequences series. After saying that I will also admit that while I read it I had quite a few "WTF am I reading and why can't I put it down" moments. I was completely intrigued by both books. After reading Consequences I couldn't stand Tony. After Truth I can't say I hated him, I hated his actions but after learning about his past some more I felt I understood him a little better. To see how someone's family life can shape the person they become and the actions they take is very interesting to me. That being said I still think we have so much to learn from the next book. Again I don't condone Tony's actions by any means but I do feel myself drawn to the character and that may say something about me but I'm not here to delve into my issues (could be here all day LOL) but I think it could also do with the author's writing. When an author can make you feel so much emotion whether it be love, hate, happiness or sadness you have to give them credit. I for one am looking forward to the next book to see how things play out and how Ms. Roming can pull out more emotions from me. I read this as a piece of fiction (yes, I know these issues are happening in real life)and since reading is my escape from the reality I like to see a HEA.
So, do I hope to see Tony redeem himself? Of course I do because again these books are my escape from reality.
Bea, your comment was brilliant. Wow.
Maybe its objectionable content discourages one from paying too close of attention to its details? One of the refreshing things about this book is that it never really points its finger at anyone, it just expects the reader to decide for him or herself what is wrong and right. It’s all in your own interpretation. In a world that is so full of hate, I see nothing wrong with a reader wanting to believe, if not only for a few escapable hours, that redemption is achievable.
I hold no judgments to anyone who does not like the book and was offended by it. I get it, in the real world, we all know, that this simply would be beyond comprehension. The same as I would bear no judgments to that of someone who loves the book. I get it. I personally want an HEA. I don’t feel that makes me idiotic. Simply “unrealistic” ;). Ah, but that’s the power of FICTION.
Rebecca wrote: "All along this is what I was saying about valid points for a very interesting discussion that was thwarted by passing judgment on the woman who disagree with the point that all woman who like Tony ..."Rebecca, I thought this was a great comment.
I would like to re-iterate at this point that women should not be put into a position of defending how they felt about any character in any book for any reason. Its fiction and its intended to explore the human condition without the limitations demanded by real life.
Readers "feelings" are not wrong and are not a marker for the end of civilization. Stockholm Syndrome throws all sanity and demand for rational emotional responses out the window. It is okay to want Tony to find redemption and to have a variety of mixed feelings about that. Putting one's self in a position of defending those mixed up feelings to a raving misogynist who screams and yells how stupid everyone is- is inadvisable.
I also want to re-iterate that not one single reader found Tony's crimes acceptable or less than horrifying. Not once did the author attempt to condone or support rape or murder (at least not yet).
To twist the story to make it appear that readers or the author condone either of those crimes reveals this guy's creepy goals and the limitations of his willingness to discuss it. It's my understanding he reads tons of this stuff and one stars all of it. He obviously can't stand the dub-con/non-con genres and seems to be out to vilify and mock anyone who reads it. I'm sure he will say he isn't out for any ill-purposes and just wants to have a nice chat about it, but all his previous comments give him away. What a bunch of looney rot.
I read a fair bit of it and guess what? That does not make me a "supporter" of non-con relationships or the emotional damage involved. It doesn't mean I am in love with Ted Bundy and exactly like the girls who wrote love letters to him. It doesn't mean I would fight to the death for Tony, my beloved murderer (he said that to someone in a previous comment). WTF has this guy been smoking exactly? Are you really saying you think I would physically lay down my life for a made up person in a story? I think you have a couple of screws loose, fella.
We read fairy stories and vampire stories too and it doesn't mean we should be wearing garlic around our necks when we go out at night, DUH! We are superbly capable of separating fact from fiction and your inability to do so should have you concerned. People who read true crime are not going to suddenly start killing people. People who read horror and not going to start stalking the nighttime dressed in a shroud. People who read war stories are not going to take up arms against their neighbors. Give me a big fat break. I can't even believe I am having this conversation. But. I. Can't. Stop.
Stories are not required to follow the guidelines of what is acceptable to "A" and readers are not required to enjoy only what is on his approved list.
The fact that "A" doesn't get it and more importantly that he refuses to get it, is very telling. For him to use this book as an excuse to wallow in his animosity toward women and use it as an excuse to make wildly derogatory comments about the world's female population is unacceptable and should not be tolerated here.
Rebecca wrote: "Ayhan, when you are coming to the conclusions you did you are not having a constructive discussion- you judged and the only position people were in was too defend.If you had said 'Rebecca I see yo..."
You are very right in all of this Rebecca..
I am not sure why he is playing innocent and victim now. No one called him names other than ignorant after he passed judgement on us as women and attacked us as people..
I think we should stop talking to him all together, it will never get any of us anywhere.
I'm not sure it's fair to say Clair was ever an emancipated, self-confident, strong woman. Maybe she is exactly that, but under extreme circumstances she becomes worn down and copes in the only way she knows how. I think Bea's point regarding being psychologically destroyed and having everything taken from you is an excellent one, and explains many of the things I've struggled to understand. As sad as it is, I think sometimes the known is better than the unknown (or people think it is, anyway).
Shannon in my opinion did not start this. I believe your comment was the first. And I think a simple "This book is not for me, I didn't enjoy the content" would of saved you a lot of stress!
Ayhan,I don't think you are the bad guy, I do however think maybe your original post to this thread could have been worded differently and I can understand how others could have taken what you said as an insult to the readers of this series.
This is from your original post....
"Those reviews made me think that we should be glad there are not many women around who are in powerful positions or governments or courts, otherwise we all would have messed up as humanity. Obviously most women here are irrational, illogical and , well, not so intelligent."
And maybe you were trying to get a response for a heated debate, or as you have mentioned you are a non-native speaker so the words were misused/misunderstood.
If you wanted to learn more about the people who liked these books and Tony perhaps it could have been worded differently for a good discussion. Obviously my problem with your original post is from the last sentence above, namely the "not so intelligent" part. Seeing as you like to learn I just think if perhaps you posted a thread asking women to explain their fascination with Tony so you could understand or learn from it things may not have gotten so heated. I believe you were trying to get some input and possibly learn something I just think things took a wrong turn somewhere.
We all agree that we won't always agree on books, just like politics and religion are always going to be up for debate among people and that is what makes this world more interesting. Hell if we all liked the same thing, talked the same, looked the same this world would be a boring place. Some people aren't even sure why the liked a book they just know after they read it they liked it, no deep hidden meanings behind the reason for liking the book. I've had a few of those and I've had friends that didn't care for it but they didn't judge me for liking it.
Maybe I'm getting off track here but just wanted to share a few of my feelings.
LOL, I'll skip on digging into my issues here. That's what I pay a therapist for :)
Rebecca wrote: "The passive aggressive and incredibly patronizing attitude you have is breathtaking Ayhan. It doesn't make it less disrespectful.If only I was as wise and mature as the Great and mighty Ayhan.
..."
Well Rebecca I guess I'm "Fragile and Strange" along with you because I love a good dark and twisted story!
Terri wrote: "Shannon in my opinion did not start this. I believe your comment was the first. And I think a simple "This book is not for me, I didn't enjoy the content" would of saved you a lot of stress!"Thanks Terri, several people have read this and stated the same thing. I simply said no one made him read the book. This person is a troll. it's just really sad that he is still attacking and trying to act like somehow he was wronged. He didn't like the book, he should have left it at that.. But instead he made it a "if you liked the book you are a shitty person and a shitty woman and you are ignorant and know nothing" war.
Says a lot about him as a person at this point.
message 100:
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´*•.¸(*•.¸♥Laura♥¸.•*´)¸.•*´
(last edited Mar 27, 2013 07:26AM)
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rated it 4 stars
Well said Kelleanne!!:)I originally had the knee jerk reaction to Ayhan's statement in regards to women in power, and then I "yada, yada'd" past that part as I personally felt it that particular paragraph was utter nonsense and laughed it off. The statement is what it is. If it was honestly meant to slander women, so be it. If not, that's great. It's one person's opinion, which Ayhan has a right to have, just like the rest of us. I don't agree with it mind you, but don't really feel the need to defend my rights a woman, let alone what I like to read either. I, along with a lot of other intelligent women, really enjoyed the book. Plain and simple. And as I mentioned in my original post earlier "Maybe its objectionable content discourages one from paying too close of attention to its details?" and we only want to focus on the HEA :)
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Come on, i did not equate Christian to Mother Teresa ! I emphasised how silly to compare Christian to Tony as they are uncomparable because Christian did not commit any crime while Tony c..."
Oh, there’s so much to say…for the first time ever, I might hit the Goodreads character limit for comments :) Nah, I’ll try to to respond to things individually, I think it will be easier to follow….
Ayan, ok, I will agree that it doesn’t matter if it is fiction or nonfiction, BUT, I think to some people the fact that it is fiction does make it more acceptable to like Tony. It does not for you and I, but it does for some. I also believe the author has the right to wright whatever she (or he) wants, and you have the right to like it or not, and read it or not. You don’t have to excuse the crimes written about, she is just hoping there are some out there that do ☺
I didn’t mean to insinuate no real life crimes should be written about in fiction, that would be absurd. I just don’t like to read about crimes and atrocities against humans because I find it depressing, and not entertaining. I read for entertainment, so this doesn’t appeal to me. Honestly, I don’t even watch the news because it’s too depressing. I just really try to surround myself with positive things. I’m sure this seems naïve and shallow, but I live in the real world, and there’s a lot of negativity I can’t control. When I have a choice, I choose not to allow it in my life.
That sounds like a horrible book, and I wouldn’t enjoy it. That wouldn’t be a do-not-finish for me, it would be a do-not-start. Truth of the matter is, though, there are some that would read it and enjoy it, and I’m not going to judge them.
I’m not really sure what you mean when you say “you seemed to me rather imaginative :) We never can shut-down our brains totally, nobody can do this because we are trapped in our brains and won’t delve this much” Hmmmm, I’m intrigued. I think it might be a compliment, but not sure what context it was said (typed?) in…please help :)Edited to change the last paragraph...those last comments were in regard to my "they have a better imagination than I do" comment...never mind!