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Are We Turning Our Tweens into "Generation Diva"?
It's revolting. I did my best to steer my daughter away from this stuff but all her friends had it so she coveted it. I didn't let her wear make up until middle school but she would wear it at friend's houses and put it on once she was at school. I was very careful about what clothes she could wear, what shows she could watch, but I focused on explaining why rather than just saying, "no!" to reduce rebellion. Didn't do any good. The child looks like cleopatra when she does her makeup, she has more gunk in her hair on any given day than I do all year and she wears her clothes so tight I don't think you could slip a piece of paper between her jeans and her legs. She lost her virginity at 13.She's a foster kid so she came to me with major issues and brain, well, damage, so there was only so much I could do but it's so frustrating how we sexualize children. Those of us who try to bring up strong, independent girls who love themselves and their bodies the way they are face so many challenges when the media and their peers give them different messages.
At least I did one thing right: she loves her looks and does not have an eating disorder. Woo hoo! Small, tiny, favors.
Hey that's no small feat Kelly!Sometimes I am so glad I have a boy.
Wow. This really is disturbing, but not really surprising. I tried to watch that Toddlers & Tiaras show once and it disgusted me so much I had to turn it off after about 10 mins. All you see everywhere anymore is the Beautiful, the Priviledged and the Stoopid. (Thank you Paris H & Britney S for being role models!)I worry about this with my daughter because she is beautiful, a natural extrovert and loves doing all the 'grown-up girlie-glam stuff'. I was a nerdy bookworm, so I have no idea how to relate sometimes. Luckily, my kid still listens to us and likes doing the 'boy stuff' too, so maybe it will balance out.
I just have to say that the interviewees in this article sounds like they were 90210 candidates themselves, so it makes me wonder how much it's that group influencing the next generation. Sorry if that sounds judgemental, but I just couldn't handle all the 'Valley Girl' schtuff. Shallow is as shallow ... Oh hey, a teeny-weeny Puppy!
"My daughter is 8, and she's like, so into this stuff it's unbelievable," says Anna Solomon, a Brooklyn social worker. "From the clothes to the hair to the nails, school is like No. 10 on the list of priorities."
Oh Sherrie I was a complete tomboy but I still loved doing to the glam girl dress up thing. I think that's normal. But I have absolutely no advice except talking to her as she gets older, about what a put-down all that stuff can be, implying she's not good enough without all that shit. And she is, she is. Get Jared to run around and play some sports with her!
LOL He's great with her, and her favorite thing to do is ride around behind him on his motorcycle (or her sweet-as-pie 'tough biker guy' uncle too). I think she's got enough influence around her that she won't get too sucked in, but I'm just amazed at how early it starts. We saw signs of this in preschool when she was going to an upper class neighborhood daycare, and it just shocked me. Oh, and she's a Leo too... much more than I am, so hopefully I can stear all this into theater or something. Then she can dress up all she wants! LOL That's what I did and I loved it.
people who dress their little girls up in shorts that say "hot stuff" across the butt and glitter them up with make-up and let them be fanatical about things that are out of their age appropriate bracket (such as high school musical at 6) must not have a clue as to what they are doing to the girls. where do you go from there when at 7 you have your belly button pierced and tan every day? endorsing this diva movement only gives us more young women who are displaced in the real world later in life when they realize they missed their childhood and are not ready to be full out women
Kelly wrote: "It's revolting. I did my best to steer my daughter away from this stuff but all her friends had it so she coveted it. I didn't let her wear make up until middle school but she would wear it at frie..."
Great job Kelly, it is not everyone who can be a foster parent, and I admire those who do.
Great job Kelly, it is not everyone who can be a foster parent, and I admire those who do.
Thanks, Jim. It's got its upsides: I don't have to take responsibility when they don't turn out perfect. ;)
Man I wish I had an aunt like that!
The two things that I find so contradictory but prevelant in our society is the pushing of our kids to be little adults, either with appearances and too-sexy-too-young attitudes or teaching them to be brainiacs at two (have you seen the 'My Baby Can Read!' commercials?), and then the fountain of youth fixation where it is unacceptable to actually show your real age in public. Lately, I've noticed how many actors/actresses have gotten facelifts, and they are not that old! It seems a bizarre farce to see people in middle-age be so ashamed of a few well-earned wrinkles or bits of flab, and then have them be praised when their faces are stretched too tight and have big false boobs or manly pecks. It is a strange parody of a youth everyone knows they no longer possess.
So our culture, at least the one put out by the media, gives this extreme double-message. Grow up as soon as you can, then once you hit the late-teen/early-twenties age, do everything you can to stay there. If you don't conform to this, something is very wrong with you. I hate this double standard, and yet I see it everywhere.
I love the aging actresses who haven't done a thing. Like Holly Hunter.Another big thing lately that touches the kids must be like grown up thang is all these places that teach babies how to be potty trained. I'm talking 8 month olds! Excuse me? Boy, are you giving your kid future bathroom issues. My ex-neighbor was doing this and when I expressed shock and wariness she said it worked! that why should she have to change diapers? Well, because you are a MOM and you chose to have a baby!
Lori, in China they potty train infants. They've done it for forever. People just don't change diapers there. It's just not part of the culture. Baby clothes are made for easy potty access. They hold babies who can't sit up by themselves over the toilet and they do it on a regular schedule to avoid accidents. To them, it's weird that we let our babies go in their pants.
Huh well I stand corrected! But I can see a baby being held over the toilet and doing nothing, and then 3 minutes later having to pee or poop!
Bunny, I'm sure your niece loves being a country girl with you, but not everyone is like that. I've always been a total girlie girl and would NOT have had fun catching frogs or climbing trees or getting muddy. It's just not in my personality, the way some other women do NOT enjoy wearing makeup or high heels. I have always hated bugs and dirt and frogs and lizards. I've never enjoyed hiking or camping or much about the great outdoors beyond the beach or a nice picnic or something. Maybe that makes me a Miss Priss, but I'm okay with that.When I was little, I loved playing dress-up. I had a box of dress-up clothes (some were purchased costumes, but most were from the thrift store or stuff my mom didn't wear anymore) and I loved to get all decked out in lots of costume jewelry and gloves and hats and lipstick. But I knew it was play. I knew that little girls didn't really dress like that or wear makeup. On special occasions (like when I was in a play) my mom would let me wear pale lip gloss and maybe some blush, but I knew it was not a regular thing and so it made it more special. I think taking a kid to have her nails painted at a salon (but NOT fake tips) for her birthday or something really special is OK.
I was not allowed to wear nylons until I was 13 or 14(tights were OK, but sheer pantyhose was not). I wasn't allowed to wear makeup until I "became a woman" (and we all know what that means). My dad would have been happy for me to stay a little girl forever, but my mom knew that there were some things that my body would dictate it was time to do, like when to start wearing a bra and when to start shaving my legs.
This is something I worry about for when I have kids. I definitely DON'T think kids should grow up too early but I also know that when I was growing up, I was desperate to fit in. So how to find a balance there is tough.
And there's also the fact that your niece wanted to be country girl, but it sounds like her parents wanted her to be all girly girl?The thing is to let a kid be free to do what they are naturally inclined to do, and if you projecting onto a girl only the glamorpuss, that's all she's going to know because kids want so hard to please their parents.
Well, obviously I think it's common sense to dress appropriately for the occasion. I don't wear heels to the gym. I don't wear dresses to a basketball game. But if she wants to wear rhinestone earrings and pink lip gloss and perfume with her jeans and boots, who cares?
Sarah, you have a great point in that some girls really do enjoy doing the girly stuff, and that's cool to know that about yourself. Go Chicka! The problems do come in when all the focus is on the shallowness on beauty and popularity and whether or not you have the latest designer socks or pure-breed dog that fits in your hand, or whatever the media is hyping that week. But not on who they are inside or how smart they are or what they can do that is unique to them.My daughter kinda goes both ways really well, and we do our best to let her choose. She actually went through a 'goth' week where she wanted to wear black & skulls & stuff, and secretly told me that this was her 'secret self'. She had seen this on a normally harmless cartoon that we've approved. So, I told her that she could wear the black and her skull t-shirt (it's a pirate shirt that says Daddy), but that she couldn't wear the jewelry or the makeup or dye her hair cause she was too young. She did this for two days and went back to her normal self. I think she also feels a little special that she has a 'secret' that she can share only with me. I feel good that she's still sharing secrets with me. :)
I do think you have to let kids experiment to find themselves, but make them stick to the rules that pertain to their age & your family. I also think it allows them to 'try on' different versions of themselves without placing those all-too attractive taboos on something you say 'absolutely not!' to.
Ugh, raising kids is Hard!
I TOTALLY agree that girls should learn that what's truly important is who they are inside. But I can tell you from personal experience that that's not always the reality of what's important to girls, and I don't think that can be changed one girl at a time. Like I said, when I was younger I was desperate to fit in. I knew I was smart and beautiful inside and all of that but it didn't matter at school. What mattered was if I had the right friends and listened to the right music and wore the right clothes. I'm not saying that's GOOD, I just think it's the way it IS. And the hard part of parenting (I'm guessing) is balancing that. Trying to instill in our daughters that they are special and wonderful and what's important is that they're smart and nice to people, but still try to understand that teenagers are superficial, and high school is much more pleasant when you fit in. But, maybe I'll get lucky and my daughter won't care about fitting in or being popular or whatever. Some girls (and boys) don't. I wish I'd had that kind of self-confidence as a teenager, but I suspect most teens mant to be "cool."
I guess what I am trying to say is there is nothing wrong with girls trying too look (age-appropriate) girlie/pretty/fashionable IF they are also trying to be pretty inside.
Yep. Don't think anyone is arguing that at all. I think we're all just concerned when the only thing being instilled in a girl is the need to look beautiful, and turning them into needy consumers because that's where their self-worth lies. Little Paris Hiltons. I don't think you were like that at all! Just because many if not most girls love girly things doesn't mean they also place their whole sense of being in that. It can be fun!And oh yes, totally agree about the high school mentality. I'd even say it starts in middle school.
Well said, both of you!I starting teaching Jessi at a pretty young age the difference between 'pretty girly-girls' and 'Brats' that she was exposed to. For instance, Hannah Montana = cute, pretty, funny, smart, cool VS. Britney Spears = BRAT. I know that's an oversimplification, but it stuck in her mind really well and she's built on that image. You can look really cute, do the girly thing, love pink (shudder), and even get some attention for it, but you need to be compassionate, smart, funny, loyal, strong and fierce sometimes.
Sarah, when my sister was in China she said that the kids had those holes in their pants because they would just squat and pee or poop wherever they were. She has a picture of a toddler pooping in the street. I'm not sure that's potty training exactly. I have always loved spiders and other crawly things, playing adventure games in the bushes and climbing trees but I also liked makeup and floofy stuff, too. In 1st and 2nd grade I refused to wear pants to school. My room was done in pink. (I hate pink now because of overkill, I think.) So I agree girls can be both. And I agree with you that the important thing is whether they're trying to be beautiful from the inside out.
What I hate is girls feeling that it's their only option. I also hate that boys feel that their only option is to be manly and butch and that if they like frilly girly stuff there must be something wrong with them, they're actually a girl inside.
Sherrie: me, too, including with toys. Bratz dolls: BRAT! Groovy Girls: cool!
BunWat wrote: "Last summer she slipped in a puddle when she first arrived and got mud on her flowered capris and for just a second her chin quivered and then she firmed it up and said, "Its okay, when I'm with you I'm a country girl!!" I just wanted to smoodge her. Oh! That is the best thing I have read in days.
(notice how us guys bailed on this thread?)
Kelly wrote: "Sarah, when my sister was in China she said that the kids had those holes in their pants because they would just squat and pee or poop wherever they were. She has a picture of a toddler pooping in ..."My best friend and goddaughter live in Beijing now. That is not what she has told me about potty training in Beijing.
My best friend lives in Beijing too, and is a teacher of young children - that's the first I've heard of that too!
(Yea, but Kevin, you are secretly reading it) Ha-ha. :P
Kelly, I wonder if your sister saw more than one toddler pooping in the street? Or if she happened to catch one badly behaved child? Or if she was in a more rural area than Beijing? Because yeah, that's NOT normal.
Well, Sarah, I expect your friends are right not me. :) And she was not in Beijing, she was in a lot of rural areas and different cities than Beijing. I also could be remembering it wrong.
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There is something Freudian that I'm not smart enough to pick up on here, so I'll stop.
But I <3 poop. How do you make the little black heart, Bunny?
Sally wrote: "Oh, well I poop in the woods too. "
Are you a bear?
Are you a bear?
Mod
But my nickname in college was "the bear."
Why? Answer quickly, before the speculation starts.(Too late! I say Sally was called "The Bear" because she ate everything on a camping trip, like a bear would when raiding a campsite.)
I'm not a big fan of pooping in the woods, but I sure love peeing in the woods! Doing nature's call in nature is just so liberating.
*nods head in total agreement*One of my favorite scenes in Rob Roy is when Jessica Lange wakes up and goes outside to take a leisurely morning pee right above the surf in her nightie, she just hitches it up a bit. Of course that morning pee calm is broken off by the most disturbing scene in the move, the juxtaposition is terrific cinema.
When I was in Brazil in the early 80s I exclusively wore skirts since that's their tradition. Sooo comfortable. I used to wear mostly skirts in the warm weather.But then I stopped wearing undies, and so, um, I won't wear a skirt without undies!
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