The Great Gatsby
discussion
If we could the replace Gatsby on the school required reading list...
I just tuned into this discussion-I've real all the posts & it's a fascinating conversation. So: good question.I think it's always important to keep examining our choices in what we teach to be sure a variety of voices (gender, era, race, class, etc) are heard. There is only so much teaching time so not everything can be taught, Not even everything great & worthy of being taught.
That being said I have 2 thoughts on the conversation. The first is kind of minor but I'm against teaching young adult literature because I think students should have some privacy in their reading. I would have hated if everything I loved when I was a teen had been co-opted by the authorities and made canon. It would have taken all the fun out of it. I didn't want adult-stamped approval on my life, I wanted some safe spaces, especially in my reading, not to be officially analyzed and dissected.
My second thought is that I would leave Gatsby in the curriculum. I first read it at 14 and fell in love with a time and place that no longer existed. It led me to explore history and literature of that time much more deeply. I think part of the job of a teacher is to make the reading "relevant"-I'm not sure what that means, but I think here an important time (& place-it doesn't hurt that I'm from NYC!) is presented. Learning more about the history enhances the understanding-and the book gives a deeper dimension to the historical facts.
I also found from my first reading that important moral questions were raised that stayed with me: how we impact other people's lives, how our actions have consequences, how frivolity can impact deeply on our lives and the world.
I also think the book should be taught for the sheer beauty of its writing. Maybe because it's not readily perceived as "relevant" students may not seek this book out on their own-a reason they need us to bring it to them. I don't think they could find any writing with more beautiful sentences. The craft is amazing and well-worth studying. Students will not learn much (in a positive way) from reading a book like Twilight but they will learn lasting lessons from the prose of Gatsby that they will carry with them into whatever reading they do-fiction or non-fiction.
Gatsby also presents some interesting examples of relationships. The questions of how people relate to each other, what is a valuable connection and what is wasteful is surely important in any time and place and an opportunity for interesting discussion. As well as the discussion of how the time and place shape the people and how these relationships might look in today's world.
And, I agree, being a bootlegger is very American. Look at Joseph Kennedy, father of a president. Or, to turn to popular fiction/tv, Tony Soprano.
Thanks to everyone for some great, thought-provoking discussion.
I just want to remind you all that there is reading and there is READING. If you don't know the difference then it doesn't matter what you read. Let's try comic books. My son in college was ASSIGNED a comic book, albeit a good one, but still a comic book. Let's color pictures but stay inside the lines.
If one of the reasons to keep The Great Gatsby as required reading is for the quality of the writing....couldn't that also be taught through excerpts? If one of the reasons to keep it as required reading is because it represents the time in which it was written.....couldn't one of his short stories also teach that? Couldn't other books and stories also written during and about that time period also do that? Also, does the book really give the most well rounded picture of that particular time or does it target one very focused slice of that time? There was a lot was going on in history then. Women's rights movements, the great migration, the Harlem Renaissance. (<-----btw, can a novel really be the "quintessential NY JAZZ AGE novel" w/o Harlem? I guess The Great Gatsby proves that one can....I don't have to agree with it, though.)
I'm not really arguing that it should be taken out. At least, I wasn't until I started reading through the thread. I'm just struggling a bit with the arguments being given for why it should be left in.
William wrote: "I just want to remind you all that there is reading and there is READING. If you don't know the difference then it doesn't matter what you read. Let's try comic books. My son in college was ASSI..."What class was it and what comic book if you don't mind me asking?
There is actually plenty of social commentary to be found in comic books. We shouldn't be so quick to judge.
Mochaspresso wrote: "William wrote: "I just want to remind you all that there is reading and there is READING. If you don't know the difference then it doesn't matter what you read. Let's try comic books. My son in ..."I agree. Times have changed whether we think it is for the best or worst, and academia has to evolve a little bit as well.
Whitney wrote: "He was a bootlegger. So, yes, that's American. Very, very American."Granted, bootlegging is very American, but Gatsby's being a crook runs counter to his love for Daisy. Fitzgerald leads us believe that Gatsby really loves her, whereas a crook is a sociopath, incapable of that kind of love. Sociopaths lust for power through wealth, and Daisy would be a mere trophy, an object of conquest.
So for my tastes, a true American hero, someone capable of great sacrifice in pursuit of true and honest love, can't be a crook. On this level, Gatsby fails to measure up. He may be for some people, but not for me. A true American hero is honest, not a sociopath.
Good point, and I am interested in your article. However, I will maintain that by high school, it is not my job to teach students to read. Lara quoteIf you are implying that it was my intent to suggest you teach students to read, that is totally wrong. I do believe, however, it is our obligation as teachers to instill the desire to read outside of class and for for the rest of lives.
And, no I will not give up on the novel, but continue to teach it along with memoir, plays, essays, short fiction, and whatever else will teach my student the concepts above. LARA QUOTE
Nor do I suggest that either, Lara. I am only criticising teachers´penchant for excluding everything that is not a novel. If you are covering all types of lit, essays, poetry, epic poems, ss, etc. you`re the teacher I would have loved to have. Unfortunately I did not have that in HS. Congratulations. I recall a quote from a gallery owner in NYC,the Limelight Photography Gallery, who said that in times of little interest in collecting photography her means for success was "Give them what they want, but balance it with what you want to give them". She was referring to those photographic artists who were popular with the public and she knew she could sell with those she knew whose work was equally important but underappreciated by the general public. The same could be applied to our students. Give them what they need as determined by our peers/own sense of valuable lit and give them what they want in terms of reading pleasure.
As for whether GG should be included in the HS reading curriculum, despite my strong criticisms of the novel, and if you note my other posts on the other message threads, I would include it. I just take exception to its elevated status among its boosters. I believe it to be a very good but very flawed novel.
Geoffrey wrote: "I believe it to be a very good but very flawed novel."Agreed. This novel's popularity is baffling. It didn't do well in the beginning, but sales took off later in Fitzgerald's life, perhaps in sympathy to his personal and marital drama.
As an English teacher, I have to think hard when it comes to reading list and what is something that kids may actually pay attention to. A good strategy is to look at what is on the contemporary lists and what kids are talking about anyways. Some fellow co-workers think that only classics, well done and over used stories, should be used in school. But if we are getting them to read and teaching literary elements at the same time, why should the age of the novel matter? I usually pick five or so books that I think students (in the majority) would be interested in and then it is voted on as to what will be read that semester. I found that I was able to get a class to read Jane Eyre on the basis that it was MENTIONED in Twilight and that they now sell a copy of Jane Eyre with a Twilight themed cover.
I'm not entirely sure how this novel is not age relevant, many people have commented about the bored white male etc but for me the novel was never about that. For me it is about the clash between personal dreams and societal expectations. Both of which are thematicaly as relevant today as they were then. The notion of the success equating to riches is as alive as it ever was. We all have a green light in one way or another. I read it in high school and loved it because it made me consider what I really wanted,what success was, what my dreams were. I taught it last year and the students were appalled by the excess and corruption depicted in the novel, they also recognised the fact that these behaviours/attitudes exsist in their world; they did a presentation on celebrities who might represent the characters depicted. One group in particular chose to have one of the 'flops' from the X Factor to represent Gatsby chasing after an unachievable dream. They also said that had they been from a different background, he might have had singing lessons growing up, things might have been different but he was not naturally gifted and had not been given any training so therefore would never be able to achieve his drea of stardom. very insightful I thought. All in all I think it is pretty age relevant.
It may not be age relevant to high school students, now or ever; however, the novel employs so many wonderful uses of imagery it remains a relevant piece of literature.
I picked up Gatsby in the summer of my sophomore year of high school and adored it. I read it again this year, in my senior year of high school. This not only cemented my love for this book but I now believe how important it is to teach this book to high school students. How much the students can relate to story has nothing to do with the books value in a classroom. The book is beautifully written, and everyone should study the composition of Gatsby. Studying the composition of this book will make students better writers. The job of a good English teacher is not to teach books relevant to the students, but to teach books the students need to read to become intelligent, well rounded adults. And if they accomplish their job, students will find a way to relate to the story. This story has a lot to learn about history, the way people relate with one another and the human condition in general.
Reading The Great Gatsby made me a better writer, a better reader, and a more well rounded individual ready to become a functioning member of society.
Arwydd wrote: "The notion of the success equating to riches is as alive as it ever was."Bingo!
Values clarification is vitally important to a adolescents, who are forming a concept of what they want to be as adults, as you so clearly express here:
"...it made me consider what I really wanted,what success was, what my dreams were."
What more need be said about the book's relevance for a young readership.
Hetta wrote: "Your school must have sucked because you didn't read every great book out there? Well, life must suck then because you aren't going to have time to read every great book out there.How many languages do you speak? "
Life only sucks when we care about something, that said, yes, because I cared,I morn that I would never have enough time to read everything worth reading, to learn every subject worth learning.
The " my school must have sucked" comment was made in jest, no offense to my school and my English teachers, they did the best they could under limited budget and the pressure of standardize testing. However, I confess that I wished my family had the resources to provide me with a classical education. I believe that's where the heart and soul of western culture lies.
Diane- shock and awe sets in over your comment just now. You wish that you had been treated to a classical education yet you beg the question with what book should schools replace Gatsby, under the notion that Gatsby is irrelevant to the current high school population. Are you familiar with the reading lists that the secondary classical schools carry for their students? Gatsby would be on the 'recent and modern' side compared to the other reads. 'Wow' is about all I have left to say on this matter.
Hetta wrote: " How many languages do you speak? "Its interesting that you asked, Chinese is my first language. I started learning English around age 11.
I came from a culture obsessed with the written word, our language curriculum have to cover about 3,000 years literary history. So, yes I do understand the need to teach literature that has great cultural and historical value and beauty.
Many people seem to think that Great Gatsby would fade into obscurity if taken out of curriculum. I argue that if a novel is truly great, it will survive being opt-out of classroom.
Out of Chinese literature's long history, we have 4 "great classic novels" that stood out against all others. They are considered great, not only because they are beautifully written, have universal theme, communicated important moral values, or that they represent particular historical period (any good classic novel should accomplish all that). They are great because they have both width and depth, they are easily enjoyed by all, and enjoyable on many many levels.
One of my all time favorite was Romance of Three Kingdoms, written in the 14th century it has a total of 800,000 words and nearly a thousand dramatic characters. Me and majority of my friends were inspired to read the novel in 4th grade. Why 4th grade? because that year Ninendo released a strategy game base on the novel for the NES. I borrowed my grandfather's copy to find out how to beat the video game and end up falling in love with the story, and so did all of my friends. Hundreds of years after being written, these great novels have been adopted into plays, novels, mangas, TV series, video games, movies; inspired pop-songs, self-help books, and many well reserached scholarly analysis. You can read them at 10, or at 80, they are still as entertaining, and thought provoking.
These novels were never "taught" in school, yet they survived.
Krissy wrote: "Wait, are you suggesting that Gatsby isn't well written? "I wrote "its not age relevant". I never question the quality of Gatsby's literary value.
Kelly wrote: "Diane- I only skimmed a few responses and felt bad that so many flogged you rather than have a discussion. I can absolutely see your reason for broaching you question. "Hi Kelly, thank you for the moral support. I agree with you that students should be challenged.
That's why I am asking if there are any novels out there, that would do a better job of both demonstrating great writing, and great theme to today's 16 year old's.
Kelly wrote: "Diane- shock and awe sets in over your comment just now. You wish that you had been treated to a classical education yet you beg the question with what book should schools replace Gatsby, under th..."Haha...You caught that huh, in the imaginary world of mine, class room employee Socratic methods, students read timeless discourse by great men, and hold intelligent discussion on morals, ethics, and societies.
Diane wrote: "I am asking if there are any novels out there, that would do a better job of both demonstrating great writing, and great theme to today's 16 year old's. "I can't think of a better one than The Catcher in the Rye, although I believe The Great Gatsby to be powerfully relevant because of its theme of corrupt moral values.
Teenagers are, subconsciously at least, looking for role models in the adult world. It's vital to their survival, as it is in nature among juveniles of all the higher species, who emulate behavior of adults to learn how to forage, find safety and procreate.
The Great Gatsby exposes misbehaving adults and calls their behavior up for discussion. There's hardly an admirable character in the novel by my standards. This is why I prefer The Catcher in the Rye.
But it's good to study bad behavior to know it exists and how to avoid it. So I'd recommend both.
Nothing. Gatsby is timeless.
Well said, Monty J!
Gatsby is as relevant today as it has always been: for illuminating and prompting discussion of the dark side of ambition and the American Dream.Today, more than ever it seems, there is an emphasis on fame, wealth, and material success. Pausing to reflect on the pitfalls of their pursuit and how ideals can be corrupted or go astray is a valuable lesson.
A good teacher will prompt this discussion and help make that connection through engaging activities in the classroom, as @Arwydd noted above.
Monty J wrote: "Diane wrote: "I am asking if there are any novels out there, that would do a better job of both demonstrating great writing, and great theme to today's 16 year old's. "I can't think of a better o..."
I had tried Cider House Rules one year for the reasons you have mentioned. The students enjoyed the book and the subject of abortion stimulated a heated discussion. The only problem with Catcher in the Rye, even after 60+ years, is the language. The use of "goddamn" is still taboo where I live. Oddly enough "FUCK" might be okay, but never take the Lord's name in vain. Other books I stuck my neck out on were One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Birdy. It was a hard sell to convince the students that both of the main characters in these books were Christ figures. Teaching ain't easy. Gatsby is safe except for the symbolism of the eggs and the ash pits and the doctor's eyes. Funny?
Wow. I read Catcher in the Rye in school 50+ years ago. We were 13 or 14. NO ONE had a problem with the language or what have thought to have one."Fuck" would have been a problem then. I don't know now.
We all loved Catcher. Of course, I went to school in Manhattan -- in fact at a school Salinger attended and is casually mentioned in the book.
But somehow the notion of "The Catcher in the Rye" evoking controversy for LANGUAGE makes me feel disoriented. When was the Scopes trial again? :-)
I haven't read Birdy, but I'd imagine Cuckoo's Nest and Cider House Rules would be more shocking.
But the point I'd make would be that The Catcher in the Rye, Cider House Rules, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest are not quite up to the standard of The Great Gatsby. Maybe Catcher is arguable but not, I think, the others, and I liked Cider House Rules.
The more I read this discussion, I think people should go back to teaching Moby Dick in high school. That'll shut 'em up. It's absolutely pro-God and pro-whale -- of course, Christians don't fare too well, certainly not as well as cannibals. :-)
By the way, I think Moby Dick is high art but I'd leave it for college English and Am. Lit. majors.
What unsafe about the symbolism of eggs (which I seem to have missed) and the ash pits and the eyes of T. J. Eckleberg? The ash pits come straight out of Eliot's "The Waste Land" and you can't have a much more anti-sex poem than that.
Of course, if had wanted to lose your job you could have assigned the Trimalchio episode in The Satyricon as background. :-)
I suppose it really comes down to what your overall focus for your class is, and what it is, besides the general ideas of reading and literary technique that you want students to learn from a book. For me, I teach the patterns of American Culture, the -isms, and Gatsby is the best example of modernism that is available. I begin with puritanism and move chronologically through the major movements, and discuss how the politics, economics and culture relate to influence the arts, specifically literature, but also music, visual arts, etc. The students are interested in how each movement is a reaction against the previous one, and they learn to predict the next trend. At the end of the course, they choose their own current book to read and discuss how it reflects our own time. Because of the length, style and subject matter, I haven't found a better book than Gatsby to serve the purpose it does in my class.
Another age-relevant book would be Ordinary People, whose 16 year-old third-person protagonist is a suburban version of The Catcher in the Rye's urban Holden Caulfield.Like Hinton's The Outsiders, Judith Guest's Ordinary People has a highly successful companion film that can supplement the book. OP addresses mental illness (depression/PTSD) much more directly than Catcher, which gives it a leg up.
OP has the additional advantage of being in third person. Instead of trapping readers in the narrator's mind, (I got claustrophobia, listening to Holden's careless thoughts.) you get a 360 degree version of his life through family, his therapist, his fellow schoolmates and a former hospital co-inmate.
Guest is of course no Salinger, but she gets the job done. (I've met her. She's a terrific person.)
Bill wrote: "Wow. I read Catcher in the Rye in school 50+ years ago. We were 13 or 14. NO ONE had a problem with the language or what have thought to have one."Fuck" would have been a problem then. I don'..."
I always introduce this interpretation as a take it or leave it kind of thing. Popular themes of this period were paralysis and sterility of society, i.e. Eliot's "Wasteland" that you mentioned. Post World War I these themes became even more pronounced. So here goes: The bay between Gatsby's and Daisy's homes represents the womb; the two Eggs (which don't really exist) are the ovaries; the roads between are the fallopian tubes; but rather than a birth in the ash pits (sterility), we get a death and what sort of death? Myrtle's breast is torn off. All presided over by Dr. Eckleberg (in George's mind, God). Like I said, take it or leave it, but it does seem to fit the time period and it enriches the class conflict.
By the way, Bill, I skipped a week of school in high school to read Moby Dick and loved it.
Monty J wrote: "Another age-relevant book would be Ordinary People, whose 16 year-old third-person protagonist is a suburban version of The Catcher in the Rye's urban Holden Caulfield.Like Hinton's The Outsiders..."
I recently read that Catcher in the Rye is no longer relevant because it is too white. I think that is bullshit just like banning To Kill a Mockingbird because people are "tired" of white-guilt.
Diane wrote: "Hetta wrote: " How many languages do you speak? "Its interesting that you asked, Chinese is my first language. I started learning English around age 11.
I came from a culture obsessed with the w..."
I agree in principle. I enjoyed Tale of the Genji and hope to read Dream of the Red Chamber one of these days. However, it is always a cultural benefit to share certain stories: i.e. Shakespeare, Homer, Sophocles, etc. Catcher in the Rye was dropped from many reading lists because everyone had already read it before it was assigned in class. Too bad it isn't that way with more books.
pretty much any Required reading book is doomed to be hated by at least half of the adult public, especially the non reading half. Gatsby was and is a great book, thankfully i read it before some english teacher tore it to shreds. it is the great paradox, how do we make sure our children read the great books, and love the great books, when it is pretty obvious that every book on the required reading list is going to be hated?
maybe we should only put books in the school library/media center that are "Officially Banned" by the school district. this would ensure that the kids snuck them out and read them!
William wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Another age-relevant book would be Ordinary People..."I recently read that Catcher in the Rye is no longer relevant because it is too white. I think that is bullshit just like banning To Kill a Mockingbird because people are "tired" of white-guilt. "
It seems to me that people ae missing the point when reading certain books. Isn't the whole idea to be able to experience something through another person's eyes? That's what makes reading such a pleasure. Are we that close-minded that we just can't read a book because it will offend our sensibilities? As a reader, one may not always agree with the message the author is sending, but what a great way to spark up healthy debate. I know people that will only read books by authors that are of their race or nationality and all I can think is how very sad that a person would limit themselves that way. Basiclly, a form of self-banning, wouldn't you say?
It saddens me to think that books can be banned in schools based on these ridiculous notions.
I don't think it should be replaced, but it should be moved up to a junior or senior level. Also, The Scarlet Letter would be better for the same grade level.
I really loved this book when I read it in grade 10, and it's now one of my favorites.
Lorenzo Carcaterra's Sleepers is a possibility. It's about four teenagers in the Hell's Kitchen area of New York who get in trouble and get sent to reform school. Then there's a flash forward to therm as adults.There's an award-winning companion film by the same name with an all-star cast (Brad Pitt, Robert Deniro, Kevin Bacon, Dustin Hoffman and Minnie Driver). It portrays urban life and life in a reform school and has some of the greatest street language dialog I've ever read.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117665/ (link to film on imdb)
And it's a true story.
I'm sorry Shakespeare fans, but this beats any Shakespeare I've ever read (forget iambic pulse) and it's far more current and relevant. (Oddly, one of the characters is nicknamed "Shakes" for Shakespeare.)
You want to get kids reading? This ought to snare a few.
Licha wrote: "William wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Another age-relevant book would be Ordinary People..."I recently read that Catcher in the Rye is no longer relevant because it is too white. I think that is bullsh..."
You forgot to mention gender. The trend these days is to be multicultural. While I don't agree in most cases, since the students are reading so little, I can understand the argument. It is sad.
Uplandpoet wrote: "maybe we should only put books in the school library/media center that are "Officially Banned" by the school district. this would ensure that the kids snuck them out and read them!"I tried this one year and the students never got past Nineteen Eighty-four and couldn't figure out why it was banned. A Lutheran minister suggested that I do Lolita one year; I wasn't that brave, but I had considered Lady Chatterly's Lover.
William wrote: "Licha wrote: "William wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Another age-relevant book would be Ordinary People..."I recently read that Catcher in the Rye is no longer relevant because it is too white. I think ..."
So true, William. That's another one that annoys me. What is a boy book and what is a girl book? Who cares as long as the story is good and you enjoy it or learn something from it. Let's stop limiting ourselves when it comes to our reading. There is no better way to learn about something you may never be able to experience in actuality.
I am not at all convinced that assigning a book to kids in school makes them hate the book. I suspect that most of those who hated The Great Gatsby in school would have hated it out of school as well. Most people don’t read regularly, many don’t read at all. Assign ANY book to a class of random kids and no matter how great the teacher, many, if not most, will get no enjoyment out of it.I also don’t think that making kids enjoy a book is the primary goal of teaching it, any more than making kids like doing differential equations is the point of teaching math. If they like it, great, and a great teacher will probably end up with more kids who do enjoy it, but in the end the most important thing is that they understand it, not that they love it.
I'm not even convinced that most kids hate Gatsby. As serious lit goes, it's fairly popular, many kids love it.But of course Whitney is right. A lot of kids don't like to read. Like they don't like math. Or history. Or foreign languages. You get the picture.
School isn't about entertainment. A good teacher will attempt to show the students how to find pleasure in it. But that's not why it's there.
Licha wrote: Are we that close-minded that we just can't read a book because it will offend our sensibilities? As a reader, one may not always agree with the message the author is sending, but what a great way to spark up healthy debate."there was always a minority afraid of something, and a great majority afraid of the dark, afraid of the future, afraid of the past, afraid of the present, afraid of themselves and shadows of themselves."
- Ray Bradbury
"Of Mice and Men" was required reading in my high school. Choosing books that kids feel are relevant by kid standards will keep them reading books such as "Twilight." Gatsby is incredible, I read it for the first time in ninth grade and fell in love with it then. However, had it not been assigned to me, that love affair would not have taken place until well into adulthood.
Amy wrote: " Gatsby is incredible, I read it for the first time in ninth grade and fell in love with it then."What appealed to you about the book? For me it was so-so. No one's explained to me what's so appealing. I thought the writing style was a bit stilted. It was good in places, but too often it felt like the author was trying to impress me with witty and pretty language instead of telling the story. Complex sentences are irritating to me, slowing down my comprehension.
If I were trapped in an elevator with Fitzgerald, I'd want out as soon as I could. Not so with Hemingway or Steinbeck and others.
Robert wrote: A good teacher will prompt this discussion and help make that connection through engaging activities in the classroom, as @Arwydd noted above"I agree, a good teacher can in did inspire passion~ however majority of people have the following point of view:
Whitney wrote: " in the end the most important thing that they understand it, not that they love it"
Any well trained student could understand, and maybe even appreciate Gatsby from a logical, and objective point of view.
However, literature, like all art forms, is at its best when viewed subjectively, where it could "resonate with the human spirit".
Are schools doing a disservice to Gatsby, by forcing it prematurely on the average 16/17 year old?
To have a whole school force The Great Gatsby (or practically any other literary work) to be taught would be a mistake. But to remove or replace it would be an even greater mistake. Why not have The Great Gatsby as a possible choice for those teachers who love the novel and are ready to bring it alive for their classes? And here would be an alternative text for students who struggle to stay focused on any reading more than a few pages long: The Solitaire Mystery by Jostein Gaarder.
Reading, real reading, is not a passive activity. I come away from some books with bruises, a sore back, a broken heart, a sense of joy and laughter. I tremble when someone climbs to great heights or falls from great heights. Reading matters. I once had a student revisit me and jokingly complain that she couldn't even watch a movie anymore without thinking. Writing Hunger Games in first person spoiled the book because it robbed it of any suspense. Gatsby's unreliable narrator, Nick, is,on the other hand, a test of the reader's gullibility. Pealing back the layers of this novel is part of its pleasure. Like Lord of the Flies, To Kill a Mockingbird, and many others, Gatsby is great, so why not read it in high school? You'll probably end up reading it in college too.
trapped in an elevator! what a concept! not sure how much of F Scott's ego i could stand, but i am sure i would open the emergency opening and jump down the shaft to certain death if i had to spend more than a minute with either Hemingway or Steinbeck!loved the Gat, though, and liked a few other pieces of his work. so much of Gatsby i could relate to, and so much of it was a look at the other side i had never even realized was there....
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Gatsby made his fortune illicitly. He was a crook. Are you saying that's American? M..."
He was a bootlegger. So, yes, that's American. Very, very American.