The Sword and Laser discussion
This topic is about
Downbelow Station
2013 Reads
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DBS: Is anyone else having a hard time getting started?
Derek wrote: "I tried to get a jump start on this one when it was announced, and began the Audible audiobook version. Usually when I start a new audiobook, it consumes my commute, but I'm having such a hard time..."I'm doing the Audible version as well - The Narrator sucks, but I'm actually ok with the story so far.
I hated Foundation as well, but this reads better I think. But you really have to look past the narrator - I'm succeeding so far but know exactly what you mean.
Mod
Now you all have me worried! I'm waiting on my book arriving and was really looking forward to it - I love her fantasy 'Fortress' series to the point that I named my first born son and the main character.Fingers crossed that it gets better!
Yes, very hard going. Not sure why. The text just feels dense somehow, and not in a good way. But I'm less than 100 pages in - too early to Lem. I'm hoping it gets better.(DTB if that helps)
Candice wrote: "Now you all have me worried! I'm waiting on my book arriving and was really looking forward to it - I love her fantasy 'Fortress' series to the point that I named my first born son and the main cha..."My problem is only with the audio narrator - the book itself is fine so far.
I'm at chapter 12 at the moment (audio version) and normaly I don't have any problems doing other things that require a minimum of concentration (cooking or driving for example), while listening, but I keep drifting off. I think it's a combination of the narration (the "voices" make me cringe every time) and the fact that there's a lot of telling instead of showing.
BUT I'm starting to get a grip on things, there seems to be a mystery around Joshua Talley, that I'm really curios about and I had my first Hisa POV (if it's cute and fuzzy, I'm happy to read about it).
So maybe just hang in there and keep consulting with Wikipedia about who's who.
Leavey wrote: "I'm at chapter 12 at the moment (audio version) and normaly I don't have any problems doing other things that require a minimum of concentration (cooking or driving for example), while listening, ..."This is my first time doing an audio book and I'm having the same problem with my attention drifting. I'm just not sure if the fault for me lies with the narration or the material at the point I've reached.
I read this back in August and I found her style a little off-putting but the story is fine.
I've been reading it for three weeks and have only cracked Chapter 7. I've decided to take Tom's advice and have printed out a list of characters so I can keep track of what's going on better.
Mod
So far the story has been "ok" but it's not gripping enough to stop my mind drifting off (occasionally to sleep)
It has been slowly getting better, so I will hang in and finish it. I'm about a third of the way through.
I may just not be a great listener. I was one of the few that didn't like Bridge of Birds and I could only get that through the free podcast version.
I think it really picks up - I struggled through the first few chapters but then got caught up in the story and finished it in three days. This is not the audiobook version, though. I sampled that but the narrator was so boring.
It does take a while to get going -- she has a lot of pieces to put on the board (and we need to know at least a little bit about the shape of the board and the rules of the game) and I think this was her first real large-canvas multi-POV book. But it really does start to pick up, especially once all of the threads start weaving together.
It sounds as if the book does get better as it proceeds. I might try the Tom tip though. Maybe keep track of the characters somewhere and hope that I can get used to the boring narration.
One of my professor taught the book for his class, and he told me that only one or two people actually read the book.
LatePaul wrote: "Yes, very hard going. Not sure why. The text just feels dense somehow, and not in a good way. But I'm less than 100 pages in - too early to Lem. I'm hoping it gets better.(DTB if that helps)"
At about 100 I seriously just started over. It was easier to follow the second time through. And I had to slow down to catch all the details. I ended up finishing it, and enjoying it-but it was an exercise in patience.
I would not listen to this on audio unless you can sit in a chair and do nothing but listen with 100% concentration. Cherryh's a very demanding author, and a lapse in concentration could mean you'll miss the one sentence that reveals who the bad guy is.
I found some of her sentence structure a little off-putting at first, especially since I have just gotten off of a kick of more reader-friendly fantasy. It really clicked for me once I got a handle on that and sorted out the POV characters. I would be absolutely lost if I were doing the audiobook. Good luck to those that choose that path.
I jumped in early with the audible version as well. I've seen some other griping about the Narrator. I understand that some of his voices can be grating at times; what is awesome though is that his character voices are consistent. I didn't have a hard time discerning or remembering the cast members because Troxell's reading was that effective; I often knew who was speaking before the narrative had stated such. I really liked the opening chapter but after that I too found it hard to stay focused; however, once I was familiar with the various points of view that ceased to be a problem.
It's hard to say precisely how long you should keep going ... if your not interested in reading after (minor spoiler) (view spoiler) I don't think there is much sense in continuing; that's about a quarter of the way through if memory serves.
Finished the first 7h of the audio book and I'm no longer struggling. Book 1 was hard to get through, but by chaper 13 I had a grasp of the characters (relation to each other, goals as far as apparent) and the different storylines. Got used to the narrator too, so definitely not going on the Lem-pile.
The demands of the book actually remind me of Game of Thrones. GRRM always has brief mentions of events that he never specifically covers in firsthand, but are absolutely crucial to understanding the context of the events you DO see. incidentally, this always made picking up the next book after a long break so confusing for me; I'd remember all of the awesome characters, but not any of the minor background details (which of course were never really minor at all). Downbelow definitely takes some careful reading, but by page 100 I'm definitely starting to see how everything connects. I generally listen to the audiobook with the ebook open in front of me, reading along while i do other low-attention tasks (cooking, chatting online). Even so I've definitely missed details, but honestly it's got that same 'big-picture' feel of Foundation: I don't care about any of the characters (unlike Game of Thrones) but I love how it all weaves together. So as long as I understand the gist of what's happening, I'm fine trucking on ahead.
Timm wrote: "I generally listen to the audiobook with the ebook open in front of me, reading along while i do other low-attention tasks (cooking, chatting online)."I thought there wasn't an ebook for this one?
Sean wrote: "I would not listen to this on audio unless you can sit in a chair and do nothing but listen with 100% concentration. Cherryh's a very demanding author, and a lapse in concentration could mean you'l..."While I might not go quite that far, I think that's pretty close to how I feel as well. I normally go back and forth between audiobook and ebook, but as there is no ebook here, it has been audiobook only.
I was nervous almost immediately as I was doing other things while listening to the beginning and all of the sudden I was like, "Wait, did she just sum up important details about the universe in a couple minutes that I was only half listening to?". So I did go to wikipedia as a bit of a crutch. It definitely reminds me of reading Game of Thrones, where I stopped reading for like a week early on, and when I got back I had to look up who each of the characters were.
Anyway, I got to about a 3rd of the way through and was considering Lem-ing the book, but I stuck with it, and by the 50% mark(I'm about 75% now) I was really hooked. I'm not sure if I am much of a fan of the Hisa, though...a little too ewok-y for my taste.
I'm enjoying it as interesting background noise, but am definitely finding it a challenge to keep track of anything, particularly who we might be following at any given time. I'm on chapter 9 now, and so far there is only one character (the one volunteering for adjustment) that I recognise and have any particular interest in. It's very hard to follow, and I would love a to be reading, rather than listening, then I could easily flick back to check who's who and what's what. It wasn't until the kick-off show that I realised Downbelow Station was the nickname of the planet, and not some murky underground of the station, which is what I'd imagined!
Not at all! I was sucked in from the first page. I love the author's style. She has a great no-B.S. way of writing. She sneaks in little bits of character or setting and you won't notice them unless you are paying attention, but if you are, you are treated to a rich world. She doesn't introduce Downbelow Station by slapping the reader across the face and yelling "This is Pell!" She just subtly refers to it in the stationer slang until the reader realizes they are one in the same. I love that.
Mod
A few times the sentence structure has broken my immersion, but I've just finished book 1, took a break for lunch and plan to jump right into book 2.
Her often short and abrupt sentence writing threw me off for a bit, but now that I'm 5 chapters in it's starting to grab me.
I started yesterday and had no problems getting into it. It's my first Cherryh, and I like her style so far.
With Cherryh, you have to stick with it. She writes very deeply thought provoking stories, and once she gets the board set up, they always move and come to decisive conclusions. I can't imagine how her work plays in audio - I have always read the print versions. My suggestion is that you don't obsess with knowing all the details at once - her characters never do, and you are IN their point of view/feeling their internal confusion intensely - don't mistake this. She will slide all the pieces into place until you as the reader grasp all of what is at stake.I really love this technique, that doesn't hand feed the reader, but lets them muddle through very much as the characters caught in the situation must - act, and choose, without a complete picture.
Cherryh may not be a writer for everyone but I would suggest not to give up on her works without taking them at least halfway through - for me, they have always delivered. Don't be put off by the windup phase.
I'm 99% sure I'm Lemming this. The audiobook narrator is terrible. Cherryh's writing, when I've read it, is worse than GRRM for long, run-on sentences. And it seems (from what I've read here) that the first half of the book is world-building, with nothing particularly happening. Yeah, not for me. Right now it's too a point where i LOOK at the book and I'm so bored I either fall asleep or want to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING else to do, like work email on a Saturday (which now that I think on it, is probably something my work doesn't mind hahah).
I'm actually liking the book so far. I have the Audible version. Yes, the narrator is not the best. I generally don't have a problem with concentration with audio but I have to be doing something mundane at the same time like driving to work or exercise. Sitting down and doing nothing while listening is the worst thing to do for me because my concentration then wanders. If I put the iphone on the stereo in the house I have to pace the floor while listening. Provided all the above ideal listening situations are in place I find that the audio actually helps with difficult reading because I am forced to listen to every word rather than skim. So I haven't actually felt the difficulty level with this book, though I am aware that it is there and if I was reading I would be doing a lot of revising already read sections. But so far I can look past the narrator to enjoy the book on its own merits. So far. There is a possibility that the narrator will eventually wear me down.
Interesting how most of the people struggling are listening to the book vs reading it. Perhaps some kinds of writing don't work as well in that format due to the need for paying attention? (I assume people listening aren't, in general, 100% focused on the book).
I'm reading the book, and its taking me a little bit to get used to the way the author writes. many of the sentences are clipped short. I know its the style, and I'll get used to it in a couple days. It always takes me a little bit to get used to a writing style that is a little different. That's why I had a hard time getting into Bobby Dollar.
I'm reading the Dead Tree Edition of Downbelow Station. The diagrams in the 3rd and 4th pages of the book are really helping me visualize the world building around Pell and the Norway. The writing is quite dense, but I'm enjoying it. I enjoy reading different, yet simultaneous perspectives of the story. For me, it gives the world life and dimension through multiple eyes.
Janny wrote: "With Cherryh, you have to stick with it. She writes very deeply thought provoking stories, and once she gets the board set up, they always move and come to decisive conclusions. I can't imagine how..."Wow Janny, that was pretty motivational to fence-sitters! Haha, very well said.
Rob, what are the diagrams on the 3rd and 4th PG of? Unfortunately, my 2001 Ed doesn't have any diagrams, and I failed in my googling it.
Guillermo, the book I got is the (original?) 1981 copy from a library. 3rd page depicts the white, green, blue, orange, yellow and red sections of Pell on the rotary taurus-shaped structure around the core, as well as each of the levels within the rotary structure.
The 4th page depicts a front-side view of the Norway, how the inner tube rotates and houses everyone, where the crew quarters, bridge and troop quarters are located, and that there is a outer shell which attaches everything else to the rotating inner tube.
Don't know how much trouble I would get in if I posted pictures of the pages, and I'm not sure I want to find out. I think Cherryh's email is listed a few links deep from Serendi's posted link, so it might be worth it to contact her.
Guillermo wrote: "Rob, what are the diagrams on the 3rd and 4th PG of? Unfortunately, my 2001 Ed doesn't have any diagrams, and I failed in my googling it."One's of Pell, the other of a Mazianni warship. Pell is your standard wheel design, like a scaled up version of this,
except the docks are on the wheel instead of the hub, which is how so many ships can dock at once and why Q is adjacent to a dock.
I also have the 2001 dead tree edition with the intro written by C.J. Cherryh. She states in the intro that she wrote the book to establish the universe for a small book, Merchanter's Luck. Reading this changed my expectations.So far, I'm enjoying what I'm reading, although I am reading at a slower pace than I'm used to. There is so much going on!
The only copy I found was mass market paperback and the yellowed pages don't scream "read me!".... Maybe today.
Jenny wrote: "The only copy I found was mass market paperback and the yellowed pages don't scream "read me!".... Maybe today."When I dug up my old copy, which I picked up from a used bookstore back in high school, I found the bookmark left by the original owner, which is an ATM receipt from 1986. It is surprisingly whiter than the pages.
My Google-fu is strong today. Pell schematic: http://bothelungfish.com/shejidan/dow...
Norway schematic: http://bothelungfish.com/shejidan/nor...
Source: http://shejidanacherryhpit.yuku.com/t...
Jenny wrote: "The only copy I found was mass market paperback and the yellowed pages don't scream "read me!".... Maybe today."The only copy I found was the mass market paperback I purchased sometime back in the early 1980's.
Angela wrote: "I also have the 2001 dead tree edition with the intro written by C.J. Cherryh. She states in the intro that she wrote the book to establish the universe for a small book, Merchanter's Luck."
Interesting -- I didn't know that. (Merchanter's Luck takes place shortly after the events of Downbelow Station, but it's a much shorter and more tightly-focused book focused on a single merchant ship; some Downbelow characters have walk-on parts, but the main cast is entirely new. In some ways I'd also say Merchanter's Luck is much more typical of Cherryh's writing than Downbelow Station.)
I'm reading the paperback version and I'm not enjoying it at all. Her sentences are so abrupt and it just doesn't flow for me, and I feel absolutely nothing for the characters so far. Pretty sure I'm going to give up on it. I go by the saying that life is too short to read books you don't like, and I have a long list of other books I want to read.
Yeah I'm having a hard time getting into it
I tried again last night and failed miserably. I am so close to leaving the book here where I'm doing some on-site support for work. They have bookshelves where people seem to leave/take books for others... It's kinda like you might leave a paperback in the seatback of the plane for the next person if they want to read it. I bought the book. I'm not enjoying it. I have other stuff to read so I'm pretty sure I'm lemming it. Why not let someone else (who might really enjoy it) give it a go?I feel bad. My goal was to try to read all the S&L picks this year. And I did try to read this one, but I had hoped to be more successful.
I've finished it now and I must admit I didn't find it got any easier but I made a decision that I wanted to finish it so I "powered through". Which mean basically giving up my weekend entirely to read it. I think if I'd put it down for longer than that I'd've never picked it up again. Which is a shame because there's a great story hidden behind the challenging language.
Mod
I enjoyed the second half but I would find it hard to recommend this book. There is nothing particularly exciting or original about it and the narrator put me to sleep more than any other previous audiobook reader has managed so far.
If you ask me in a few months what the book was about I'm sure I will have forgotten.
Like several people have said, it picks up about half way through. Seems to me that you need to read the first bit about the refugees, the last two chapters of book 2 and then start at book 3. The rest seems to be sketchy world building and thin character building.The 'challenging' writing just needs a good editor to run through it and tidy it up. It's dire in places and reminds me of 'free jazz' somehow.
The Sword and Laser
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Is it just me? Maybe its the narrator that just isn't doing it for me. Maybe the dead tree/digital version is more absorbing?
Or maybe its just that I'm just becoming more Sword than Laser in my old age.