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Is hijab liberation or oppression?
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Kristomanci
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Mar 25, 2009 10:57PM
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No Lauren i really think you dont understand. My entire family is muslim, and though we dont wear Hijab, i understand the concept. Islam was once a religion of liberation, and of inner beauty. That is the message that hijab sends. it sends the message, "I am so beautiful to myself, and in my love for Allah, that i do not have to show it to you. I do not have to reveal my beauty to anyone but myself and Allah, because i truly love myself." It is a show of modesty, and faith--the taliban though has made women in hijab into women in hiding. Hijab is just another way of liberation for these women. It is their show of personal pride. The courage it takes to go out in New York city only showing your eyes!!
Its the taliban, that is not a pillar of islam that stains their courage and makes it into cowardice.
Mod
Maybe I don't understand it, because I didn't grow up with it. But I would hate to live covered up like that.
It's easy to hide. It's not easy to expose yourself to the world.
I only see it as oppression when they are either forced to wear it or forced not to wear it(some colleges and schools forbid it).I'm starting to understand the concept of why they do it but it still kind of confuses me. How does just covering your hair take away your beauty? When someone has a pretty face, and you pull back the hair, their face only sticks out more. Hence, more beauty. I also see it as cruel, if it's forced, since the regions that it is normally practiced tend to be very hot.
Lauren wrote: "Not the concept, but this. http://www.nocaptionneeded.com/wp-con...Maybe I don't understand it, because I didn't grow up with it. But I would hate to live covered up ..."
They are not hiding though. It is made into hiding, but in reality they are saying i am so beautiful to myself, that i need not flaunt it. It is a personal choice, and like kristomanci said, if it is forced, then and only then is it bad. Then it is hiding, and cowardice, but in that picture i see a women walkign through the streets saying "fuck it all, im going to wear my hijab, and i dotn give a crap what you think"
Sorry for swearing!
Mod
Like, if they want to, then I don't care, either way. There are a few girls at my school that just have a hair-wrap thing, and no one cares.
I just hate when they are forced to, or if they don't they can't leave the house or something. Like, bad things happen to them if they don't.
Yeah i dont like that either. And the sad thing is that that happens, in parts of the world with the Taliban
I think hijabs should not be forced upon women like some extremist groups do. But I do think it is an act of faith and protection for women to wear hijabs. I think this modern American society is too obsessed with appearance and it is courageous that these women don't need to look good and be dusted with makeup, they can cover up their faces and still know that they are beautiful without having to "convince" others they are beautiful with makeup.
On one hand, it's a matter of tradition and culture, so it's difficult to say. I personally don't like it, because it implies that all women should basically be considered the same. Yes, I understand the belief that women should care more about, say, their intelligence than their appearance. But, in that case, why don't the men have to wear veils too? Is it all right for men to care what they look like, and not girls?
Mod
What about the men? They trim their beards, fix their hair, buy expensive clothes. Are they too supposed to cover themselves up? Men can be just as vain as women.
Mod
But don't you think that in society, on average, a woman's appearance and etiquette matters more to her social scene than that of a man?
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♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "On one hand, it's a matter of tradition and culture, so it's difficult to say. I personally don't like it, because it implies that all women should basically be considered the same. Yes, I understa..."Men are also expected to dress in certain ways, it's just not as radical. They are expected to wear long sleeved shirts. Most grow out breads too.
What I'm thinking is that instead of teaching women that they are something that should be hidden, which cannot be a healthy mind-set, shouldn't men be taught from the start that it's their responsibility to not judge women on their appearance? If the problem lies within the men seeing the women as a sexual object, then why should the women have to pay for it? It's like they're ignoring a problem by covering it up with the veil.
I dont really think so. The hijab has been around for as long as islam has. Men have to wear loosely fitted clothing with long sleeves, and are expected to grow out facial hair and respect women. Women should not be forced to wear hijab, and in reality most aren't. Its cltural, and women do it out of respect for themselves, or at least thats how its supposed to be. Men are supposed to be kind, respectful and not abuse their social standing, but people aren't nice, and they always abuse what they have.
They dont teach women that they should be hiding themselves. They teach women about modesty, self love, and self respect. They teach women that their beauty is something that they need to cherish for themselves, and need not flaunt it.
I went to islamic school when i was younger, i used to wear hijab, until i was around five. My mother never told me that i needed to hide, just that i needed to respect myself enough to be modest. Thats what they teach women, not cowardice.
And who said they were paying for it? In places where they are extreme about things like that and there is oppression, women are paying for it, but not everywhere. Not at all. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, people all over wear hijab and are not oppressed. but the media does not show you these happy veil wearers, because that doesn;t sell.
Mod
Beauty, is it not to share, to make the world prettier?
I completely agree with Chandani.Lauren, they are teaching women to keep some beauty for themselves in a modest way instead of flaunting and showing it to the whole world, just to be socially accepted.
I think the American society cares too much about appearance. Both men and women judge upon appearance (even without realizing it), but I think it is slightly more prevalent in women. People notice what brands you wear, how you do your hair, whether you are well presented, etc. I think it is very cool that hijabs take away the stigma on appearance and let women instead focus on inner beauty. Hijabs make a statement.
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, people all over wear hijab and are not oppressed. but the media does not show you these happy veil wearers, because that doesn;t sell." I think that is exactly the issue. We hear about the Taliban's laws forcing women to be covered in public and men to have 6 inch long beards and automatically get the feeling that this is bad because this group of extremists are forcing it upon people. The forcing is bad in my opinion, but the actual wearing of a hijab is perfectly fine.
Mod
But, before you even talk to a woman, the first thing you see is how she presents herself. Is it sloppy, is it neat and professional, does she have a band tshirt, does she like striped socks? It makes them all the same,for there is no way to tell who is who unless you have a conversation. How often do you have conversations with random people? If she wants that, that's fine, but that should not be forced on people.
Liz wrote: "I completely agree with Chandani.Lauren, they are teaching women to keep some beauty for themselves in a modest way instead of flaunting and showing it to the whole world, just to be socially acc..."
Thanks Liz!!
Liz wrote: ""Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, people all over wear hijab and are not oppressed. but the media does not show you these happy veil wearers, because that doesn;t sell."
I thin..."
Seriously! All we hear about is the extreme groups, and it forces the imagfe of oppression into our minds.
Lauren wrote: ""They teach women that their beauty is something that they need to cherish for themselves, and need not flaunt it. "
Beauty, is it not to share, to make the world prettier? "
But in islam making the world more beautiful is not something of physical beauty, its much deeper than that. they can share their beauty of they wish, but the point of Hijab is to teach modesty, and self love! Whats wrong with that?
"If she wants that, that's fine, but that should not be forced on people."Thats exactly what I'm saying! It should not be forced but if a woman feels that that deepens her self respect and brings her closer to Allah more power to her, go ahead.
Mod
I still can't see what hiding yourself has to do with it.
"Seriously! All we hear about is the extreme groups, and it forces the imagfe of oppression into our minds. "
Actually, the "extreme" groups are the ones who listen to all their books.
Lauren wrote: ""I think the American society cares too much about appearance. Both men and women judge upon appearance (even without realizing it), but I think it is slightly more prevalent in women. People notic..."Not all women wear only black hijab that makes them look the same lauren. not everyoen has to cover their eyes, for that is a personal decision. Many young girls that i know wear hijab, and make it seem hip and trendy. The women that you see on the news or online are women that have taken hijab to a far level, hopefully willingly. Many women wear hijab, and they design their own, add jewlery, even makeup.
Hjab is a beautiful concept, but forcing it on people is wrong, and i agree with you on that note.
Lauren I still don't think you understand the concept of a hijab. Chandani has it spot on, read her comments through.Extremist means one who interprets the holy scriptures in a different and often twisted way than the rest of those of that faith, often making the religion into something it isn't.
Mod
The moderates are the ones that ignore the passages about killing disobedient children and condoning mass murders. The ones who take everything, good and bad, are the 'extremists.'
I get what she's saying, but I don't think it makes sense. The head scarves and stuff, they just shouldn't be forced. So, we agree on that.
"The moderates are the ones that ignore the passages about killing disobedient children and condoning mass murders. The ones who take everything, good and bad, are the 'extremists.'"What? Where does it say anything about killing children in Islam? How is this even relavant? Shes talkign about Extremists in teh sense of Taliban and Hijab!
Mod
It seemed like she was referring to extremists in general too.
Well: do whatever you want to with the way you look. I don't care, it won't effect me, my family, or my friends. I sort of think it's a good thing, because then you're judging them by their personality, not their looks.
But I also think it's a bad thing, and here's why:
One time while in the mall with my friend, a woman wearing a hijab walking by with her toddler son, was getting rocks thrown at her. The kids called her a dirty Muslim, and it pissed my friend and I off. We ended up starting to throw rocks at the boys and calling them dirty white boys. It was sort of fun, but it made my heart ache, that to stay true to your traditions you had to be criticized by society.
Mod
How people can judge based on clothes like that.
Well, since it's something traditionally only Islamic people wear, you can immediately infer that the person is Islam. It's not like shoes, where virtually everyone wears them.
I was talking about extremists as in Taliban. I thought that was pretty clear.
I think that the hijab/veil is liberation also...You guys have said it all- it's nice to see arguments going somewhere.I lived in Saudi Arabia for a while... and I saw nothing of the opression and repression that seems to be imprinted with and staining the name of Islam and the sake of the hijab/veil. The women there are doctors and nurses and teachers and successful professionals. It is a really simple way of life.
Mod
Whoa, Saudi Arabia, really? What was that like? I've always wanted to live in either Saudi Arabia or Iran or Pakistan, for some reason. It would be so drastically different than here.Lauren, see Chandani's explanation for hijabs and burkahs -- shes very knowledgable on this. Just scroll up and read previous posts.
Chandani had a good explanation for all this:"I dont really think so. The hijab has been around for as long as islam has. Men have to wear loosely fitted clothing with long sleeves, and are expected to grow out facial hair and respect women. Women should not be forced to wear hijab, and in reality most aren't. Its cltural, and women do it out of respect for themselves, or at least thats how its supposed to be.
Men are supposed to be kind, respectful and not abuse their social standing, but people aren't nice, and they always abuse what they have.
They dont teach women that they should be hiding themselves. They teach women about modesty, self love, and self respect. They teach women that their beauty is something that they need to cherish for themselves, and need not flaunt it.
I went to islamic school when i was younger, i used to wear hijab, until i was around five. My mother never told me that i needed to hide, just that i needed to respect myself enough to be modest. Thats what they teach women, not cowardice.
And who said they were paying for it? In places where they are extreme about things like that and there is oppression, women are paying for it, but not everywhere. Not at all. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, people all over wear hijab and are not oppressed. but the media does not show you these happy veil wearers, because that doesn;t sell."
No, it isn't mine. It was Chandani's post from earlier in the thread, giving an explanation of hijabs.
What exactly is the argument over? The hijab or women?
Yeah. I think that the concept of hijab is wonderful, but the way that the taliban has made it, more and more women in hijab are being seen as oppressed.
Mod
Why can women not go outside their homes without male relatives? Why can they only have jobs with other women?
i pisses me off that in the bible it says that men are the masters of womenlike we are slaves or something
;( makes me mad
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Stupid sexist pigs wrote the Bible.
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that evil bible site you posted showed that and more who would even want a god that permitted this?
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Exactly. Even if he existed, he's such a horrible person, if indeed it is the Yahweh of the Bible who exists, that he deserves no worship anyway.
:) I am glad you looked that that site. The title puts most people off, but when at read it You see that every quote is directly from the Bible. No need for propaganda when what you're fighting against is filled with such horrible stuff.
i have been rereading the bible and some things really make me angry. when people read the bible they are supposed to feel full of faith but it is actually doing the opposite for me.
ew selling daughters into the sex slave trade
Mod
Now, the important question is, what do you believe?
