Fans of Interracial Romance discussion
Movies & TV
>
IR TV
Hallmark, Lifetime and Netflix and various other channels all released their Christmas line ups.Right off the bat, Hallmark is leading out with two (bwwm) IR pairings.
on 10/23 - Christmas in My Heart starring Heather Hemmens and Luke McFarlane
and
on 10/24 - Christmas Stakeout starring Tamera Mowrey and Paul Campbell
Mosaic wrote: "I doubt Titans will bring in Barbara."They already cast Barbara in Titans. She’s played by a white woman.
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/tita...
She and Dick have rekindled their relationship though I don’t know where they’re going as I’m not caught up on the latter end of season 3 but when I left off they were together and Dick and Kory were decidedly not; They’ve barely budged in the romance front since s1 when they hooked up, which is all it was. To date Titans have neglected to give Kory any romantic storyline of her own, even with an original character (but what else is new). I don’t keep up with the rest of the DC universe, I’m not a fangirl; I was only watching Titans for Anna. But I knew about Batgirl and Zack Synder’s version of the Flash and Iris which leads me to
Mosaic wrote: " Maybe then we can see a better storyline for Nightwing x Starfire, and I'm certain that WB will keep having black actress for Starfire b/c it will look bad on them if they cast light-skinned biracial/black actress for Starfire. WB keeps their race-bend cast for The Flash movie version too, so."
WB went from Candice Patton (above, right) as Iris to Kiersey Clemons (above, left), lighting in this shoot aside the former being between brown and lightskinned and the latter being lightskinned and biracial so tbh I don’t have any expectations that WB won’t cast similarly with a new version of Starfire (I do know about Ashleigh Latrop’s version of Iris as well but live action seems to be a different story). But, even if WB will keep Starfire black, I doubt they’ll cast a young black actress who looks like Anna Diop to play her, esp if she’s given a fulfilling romantic storyline or detailed backstory (which Titans’ Starfire hasn’t been given either, 3 seasons in).
That’s great news about Keke Palmer and Jasmine Guillory. Here’s hoping Talia Hibbert and Michaela Coel team up next. They’d be such a powerhouse combination and they both have not only similar goals in showing multifaceted bw, esp dsbw, in loving relationships but they’re also utter geniuses in their crafts.
So, even though I'm about eight years late on this one, I'm looking for some thoughts on Scandal with Kerry and Tony. I've not seen the series before, and I'm waiting on my copies of the series.
Kathy wrote: "So, even though I'm about eight years late on this one, I'm looking for some thoughts on Scandal with Kerry and Tony. I've not seen the series before, and I'm waiting on my copies of the series."Any and all thoughts or just the positive ones?
message 656:
by
The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
(last edited Oct 26, 2021 02:44PM)
(new)
"That’s great news about Keke Palmer and Jasmine Guillory. Here’s hoping Talia Hibbert and Michaela Coel team up next. They’d be such a powerhouse combination and they both have not only similar goals in showing multifaceted bw, esp dsbw, in loving relationships but they’re also utter geniuses in their crafts."I would LOVE for Talia and Michaela to team up too. Both have the comedic chops and yes, dark-skinned Black women would be prominent!
The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears wrote: ""That’s great news about Keke Palmer and Jasmine Guillory. Here’s hoping Talia Hibbert and Michaela Coel team up next. They’d be such a powerhouse combination and they both have not only similar go..."I looked further into it and Keke Palmer is writing a series of short stories in collaboration with Jasmine Guillory for Amazon, so not an adaptation of the latter’s books with Keke producing and/or starring but I’m still very intrigued. Keke’s list of accomplishments just keeps on growing. I wonder if she would consider adapting any of Jasmine’s books, or another black romance author’s? Someone definitely needs to adapt Talia’s. And if that someone happened to be Michaela, that would be such a dream come true.
There are some tv shows with some references toward IR couples or past couples - Chosen (sci-fi teenager tv show from Denmark), Murderville (comedy/sitcom w/ reference toward ex-IR couple), Invisible City (supernatural thriller).
Tracy Deonn’s Legendborn is being adapted for tv:https://twitter.com/intent/like?ref_s...
If they’re faithful to the book (the second of which is coming out in November) it would be ir. Even a love triangle of sorts. First Raybearer, now Legendborn, what a year.
Awesome. I'm definitely looking forward to watching Legendborn on tv. There is a God. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah!!!
The new tv show Good Sam on CBS has a BWWM IR. The BW is gorgeous. I don't know if it's supposed to be an American hospital procedural, but it's clearly set in Canada.
I've seen the promos for the show. I considered checking it out. I'm hesitant because the networks have cancelled shows that I really liked. (Recent examples are Bluff City Law, Debris, All Rise and Underground. However, OWN picked up All Rise). I might check it out.
Jmelfi wrote: "Awesome. I'm definitely looking forward to watching Legendborn on tv. There is a God. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah!!!"Ikr! And with a black woman as showrunner too, just like Raybearer. So looking forward to them both and hope they’re each successes.
Jmelfi wrote: "I'm hesitant because the networks have cancelled shows that I really liked."
Are you me, lol? Except it’s streamers that tend to cancel shows I like (though Still StarCrossed (RIP) was a network show). I just approach everything with caution these days.
I'm looking forward to Legendborn on *hopefully* Netflix or Amazon Prime. Rebecca wrote: "They already cast Barbara in Titans. She’s played by a white woman."
Guess I did good by not watching any Titans. I thought it was shit show in first place, and after hearing background stories from stunt doubles about how Titans cast being sophomoric assholes, I'm glad I didn't like the actor for Dick. He's really a dick. Pun intended.
About Snyder casting for Iris West, yeah, it's pretty old info. She has been casted since Justice League in 2016/2017. I actually feel bad for the actress, considering the whole Snyder fiasco. Anyway, good luck to her. A job is a job.
I'm actually hoping it's not Netflix for either of them, they've got such a bad track record with colourism --no network or streamer is perfect, I know, but Netflix in particular are notorious for it (did you hear about the Stagecoach Mary situation from The Harder They Fall?). Also they tend to cancel shows early. Neither show should need more than two seasons as its only two books each but if the showrunners find they can stretch things to three seasons, no reason they should be hindered from doing that. But I can't see Netflix going for that. I'm hoping Prime takes both shows or HBO.
And now Talia Hibbert too… Bad Wolf are interested in making her Ravenswood series a tv show! I’m shook. I actually have no words, omg. Though she does say in her newsletter that nothing’s guaranteed, at this stage, I am still really excited. Literally a dream come true (would be even better if Michaela Coel becomes involved as either director, a writer, a producer or all of the above! I May Destroy You showed she is the moment and she would absolutely kill it if teamed with Talia).
Disney+ has a remake of Cheaper by The Dozen premiering on their streaming channel in March stars Gabrielle Union and Zach Braff as a couple who blend their families. Cute trailer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq8Ns...
Rebecca wrote: "I'm hoping Prime takes both shows or HBO"Yeah, I'm good with either of them. Netflix do have huge colorism issue. It's very sad that they keep touting light-skinned WOC as "progressive" ideal when it's really just backward racism.
Anyway, did you watch CBC (Canadian tv show) called The Porter? There is IR romance between Lucy and rich white son. It also brings up the topic of colorism issue that Lucy faces as character as well.
Mosaic wrote: "Netflix do have huge colorism issue. It's very sad that they keep touting light-skinned WOC as "progressive" ideal when it's really just backward racism."That’s precisely what colourism is. An offshoot of racism (some people call it either the daughter or the cousin of racism).
Mosaic wrote: "Anyway, did you watch CBC (Canadian tv show) called The Porter?"
I haven’t yet but I’ve heard of it. I’ll certainly check it out when I can. Good to hear they’re bringing up colourism. I feel like more tv shows are doing that these days (as well as more actresses). Making people aware of it (esp though entertainment/pop culture) is one of the best ways to bring about a change.
I've watched HBO Max's tv show The Girl Before. It's really good and tense. There is interracial relationship between biracial main character with white male love interest. And I'm glad that they didn't make POC as villain in this thriller.
In addition, Interview with The Vampire is going to release on AMC this year. They have cast multiracial actor/actress as Louis and Claudia. I don't know if you consider the love hate relationship between Louis and Lestat as romance, but I consider it as gothic romance.
Mosaic wrote: "In addition, Interview with The Vampire is going to release on AMC this year. They have cast multiracial actor/actress as Louis and Claudia. I don't know if you consider the love hate relationshi..."
How's that working tho? Louis is going to be one of those mixed people who owned slaves themselves? Or they're making him a slave instead of a slave-owner? I'm all in for representation but him being a "working class" colonizer vs Lestat being a french aristocrat is a big part of their dynamic. Realising that he doesn't want to be a parasitic aristocrat like all the other southern whites and euro aristocrats is his whole thing.
How is Claudia going to work? Her whole personality is "white tears." She's going to use "biracial tears" to prey on black people now instead?
Or are we going to be pretending that old southern white people were just letting black girls take advantage of them? Post-racial antebellum south?
I know there'll be a bunch of racists upset just on pure hate, but whiteness and euro-ness are actually essential aspects of these characters and the story. This isn't like changing Nick Fury or Gunslinger.
Why not just adapt a story with black vampires in the first place? Sometimes I feel like people just do these things for controversy or just because they want to use a popular book name that already has a fanbase.
I'm a fan of the books and Lestat but I'm not trying to watch some white guy just enslaving black people to be his fake family. And I really don't want to see a "black plantation owner" story. Pushing the romance/bromance will just be weird and wrong this way. Unless they make Lestat into some kind of pro-abolitionist white savior or something? This is so confusing an idea.
Sorry for rambling.
Zenny wrote: "Sorry for rambling."Not a problem, if you want to ramble, might as well use this website to vent out the complaints. *shrugging*
First, Louis is not going to be slaveowner. Based on the change, Louis is owner of nightclubs and brothels in 1900s. Whether it's female or male brothels, that's for interpretation. https://monsieur-le-rock-star.tumblr....
Second, Claudia is probably gonna changed too, b/c Louis is a nightclub and brothel owner in 1900s.
Third, Idk why they don't adapt black vampire novels. This question should be redirected to producers like Shonda Rhimes, kinda like "why you ain't adapting Alyssa Cole's interracial romance novels, but you got to racebend white author's historical fictional romance?" No idea. Can't answer this question for Hollywood producers.
What I can tell you right now is that IwTV is gonna be very homoerotic, based on the casting calls. I think they even have Louis with a childhood boyfriend. See below actor cast as Louis's childhood boyfriend.
Side topic, I feel sympathetic toward multiracial actors like Jacob Anderson. Whenever Hollywood producers racebend the character, especially white characters, it's always the actors/actresses who get the racial vitriol from fandoms. Like, they didn't do anything wrong by taking the job, but the idea of racebending white characters will incur so much racial vitriol from fandoms, like, Idgi.
While the concern of originality is sound, the criticisms toward the concept of having multiracial or multicultural plots tend to lean toward racial hatred more than anything else.
Just my pov.
Mosaic wrote: "While the concern of originality is sound, the criticisms toward the concept of having multiracial or multicultural plots tend to lean toward racial hatred more than anything else."I usually don't mind it at all, there are so many white characters, racebending a few isn't really going to hurt anyone. For example, with the Little Mermaid. Or Dark Tower. It's not like the original versions are being erased. They're still there.
It's just in this case, I don't know how they're going to swing two black vampires just frolicking around America and Europe during that time period, killing wantonly as they go with no one suspecting anything unless they're just killing other black people, but I guess we'll see.
They can go as homoerotic as they like, I just don't want to see the Louis x Claudia relationship. I don't want them to put some young black child actress through that. The "adultification" and demonization of black girls is already too much of a problem imo. I just don't want to see that.
I didn't really care very much for Claudia in the books but if they cast her as black, I seriously hope they drop that whole father-daughter pseudo-incest thing. I don't want to see Grey Worm as a pedophile either. And I especially don't want to see them brutally kill off a black child character.
Idk, I feel like there was just zero need to do this. I mean, do we really want to see a black man living in the sewers eating rats, living homeless in shacks being depressed with a bunch of self-hatred issues?
Idk why they don't adapt black vampire novels. This question should be redirected to producers like Shonda Rhimes, kinda like "why you ain't adapting Alyssa Cole's interracial romance novels, but you got to racebend white author's historical fictional romance?" No idea. Can't answer this question for Hollywood producers.
Built-in fan base. Those Bridgerton books have over a million ratings on here combined, meanwhile Alyssa Cole's series might launch some kind of black love social media protest. (No offense to black love enthusiasts).
After Still Star Crossed got canceled with Lashana Lynch, I think Shonda decided to err on the But Not Too Black side of the fence. And honestly, I don't even mind. She can make her money however is most profitable to her. I just find it's dishonest to act like the series was some big progressive breakthrough for black representation when it wasn't.
Zenny wrote: "Built-in fan base. Those Bridgerton books have over a million ratings on here combined, meanwhile Alyssa Cole's series might launch some kind of black love social media protest. (No offense to black love enthusiasts).""Hmm, that sounds like a poor excuse. Shonda Rhimes, imo, should've done more. She is THE most famous tv show producer in Hollywood. She signed contract with Netflix (millions, btw) to make her tv shows. The fact that she doesn't do any tv shows based on black authors -- Alyssa Cole is very famous, enough that Mindy Kaling did audio about her romance books -- is just purely indefensible.
I get why she starts out like that from the beginning, but when she rises to the fame, that fame becomes just pure greed without generosity, it is simply selfishness.
Just my opinion on her. Certain fans like to defend Shonda Rhimes on this type of issue, but I don't see how you can defend it. *shrugging*
Now, going back to IWTV, I agree with you that AMC's IWTV seems like to pretend to be progressive, as in not genuine. Both actors/actresses for Louis and Claudia are multiracial. Honestly, hiring light-skinned multiracial actors/actresses ain't exactly "progressive" since there is colorism issue involved. Set aside the colorism and racism issues about Hollywood loves to cast light skinned multiracial actors/actresses rather than dark skinned POC actors/actresses.
IWTV, just the book itself, is very, very racially ignorant. Now, I read this book back in elementary thru middle school, so my memory of IWTV is foggy.
The character, Louis, is a racist character, yet Anna Rice wanted the readers to sympathize with a racist protagonist such as Louis. Louis, in the book, showed that he had 0 guilt toward his actions of owning slaves and murdering slaves in general. I vaguely recalls that Louis murdered and slaughtered all of the slaves he owned. However, for some particular reason, Louis felt guilt and whined and complained about how he had to kill people for blood. Particularly Caucasians. I guess from Anne Rice's POV, killing Caucasians is sin, but slaughtering slaves ain't. So, I had difficult time to feel anything toward the book overall, in addition to the underlying negative homosexual stereotype.
Now, I can see why people at Hollywood see Louis as a problem. Hell, this is why IWTV movie had to whitewash the portion of Louis being slave owner, with Brad Pitt version of Louis to free the slaves instead of murdering the slaves.
I can see the reasoning behind AMC trying to mend the racist issue involving Louis.
Obviously, I see no options of mending a racist character like Louis. In AMC's mind, the producers probably think the best way to fix the racist character is by racebend the character. I'm not defending their decisions, but I understand why they have a problem with it.
Based on the current synopsis, I don't see how they can make Louis and Claudia a couple, because AMC seems to emphasize heavily on how Louis and Lestat are going at it. Then again, I can be wrong.
My general POV toward Anne Rice's IWTV is that they should leave it in the past instead of adapting it into tv show or movie, because as much as people defend Anne Rice of her past actions, IWTV and Vampire Chronicles are racial ignorant archaic novels of boomer generation.
Again, my POV. So if there is any Anne Rice fans here, I'm not sorry to call her what she was. I call the truth as it is.
Ironic thing is, in addition to IWTV racebending its characters, Vampire Academy has a tv show coming out and VA tv show is also racebending their characters. Casting Korean American actor for one of the main characters, multiracial actress such as Sisi Stringer for the main character.Though I think it's Julie Plec who wants to make up for how she treated the only biracial WOC actress in Vampire Diaries badly. Even though she cast even lighter skinned multiracial actress in her upcoming vampire tv show that is Vampire Academy.
Mosaic wrote: "Hmm, that sounds like a poor excuse. Shonda Rhimes, imo, should've done more. She is THE most famous tv show producer in Hollywood. She signed contract with Netflix (millions, btw) to make her tv shows. The fact that she doesn't do any tv shows based on black authors -- Alyssa Cole is very famous, enough that Mindy Kaling did audio about her romance books -- is just purely indefensible.I get why she starts out like that from the beginning, but when she rises to the fame, that fame becomes just pure greed without generosity, it is simply selfishness.
Just my opinion on her. Certain fans like to defend Shonda Rhimes on this type of issue, but I don't see how you can defend it. *shrugging*"
Honestly, this. Because black love enthusiasts are already irritated with Shonda themselves. I once saw a youtube vid by a black woman with the screencap of Olivia and Fitz from Scandal alongside the main couple from Bridgerton s1, Simon and Daphne, with the title 'What about Black Love?' So i assume they are already irritated she hasn't had many (healthy) leading black couples in her shows. So she's already losing them with doing ir couples most of the time.
I don't understand how some black women in the Bridgerton fandom can have hope and say Shonda will come through for us or that they have faith in Shonda; she did okay the colourist casting for season one. I don't expect she will do better but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.
And Alyssa is already having one of her books adapted, it's just the only one that has romance as a subgenre, not the overarching genre. I'm not sure who's behind that and as i said When No One was Watching is less romance, more thriller/mystery but it's about time something of her's was adapted for the screen. Its just a shame it couldn't have been Shonda because this is the second all-white book by a white author that she has adapted for the screen while adding some diversity along the way. As opposed to just adapting a book that was already diverse, and boosting the popularity and books sales of those authors, who are often poc, and more likely black women, at the same time. She's already familiar with both Alyssa Cole and Talia Hibbert; Shondaland did interviews with them both. So we can assume she was impressed with their works, yet when it came to adaptation she picked Julia Quinn just because she happened to take her book on holiday with her. Quinn an author who had said she didnt write characters of colour as she couldn't imagine happy storylines for them in that era (at least Courtney Milan, another white author who writes historical romances, has done better).
Meanwhile it is white women who are behind the greenlighting of adapting not just Beverly Jenkin's Forbidden for tv but Talia Hibbert's Ravenswood series. It's just a shame Shonda with all her name power couldn't have done that, esp since her shows have longevity (for the most part) and likely won't be cancelled before the story is finished. We can't say the same for the aforementioned adaptations sadly, but I hope they both get a good run. Two black women Felicia D Henderson with Lengendborn and Gina Atwater with Raybearer are also for their first projects as showrunners adapting books by black women with black female leads; I'll say the same for those adaptations. Those books are both ir as well, so they are out here doing what Shonda hasn't. It won't be so bad if she wasn't the only black woman in Hollywood with such power and, as i said longevity. Hopefully more black women can start to rise in the industry as execs and showrunners so we don't just have one woman to rely on for representation all the time, especially when it comes to lighthearted themes and genres with escapism and romance.
Rebecca wrote: "Meanwhile it is white women who are behind the greenlighting of adapting not just Beverly Jenkin's Forbidden for tv but Talia Hibbert's Ravenswood series. It's just a shame Shonda with all her name power couldn't have done that, esp since her shows have longevity (for the most part) and likely won't be cancelled before the story is finished. We can't say the same for the aforementioned adaptations sadly, but I hope they both get a good run. Two black women Felicia D Henderson with Lengendborn and Gina Atwater with Raybearer are also for their first projects as showrunners adapting books by black women with black female leads"EXACTLY. I don't understand how some people in thread defending Shonda Rhimes. Like, I understand the situation IF she isn't the most famous TV producer in Hollywood rn, but she is. She has Inventing Anna on Netflix, which is about white female scam artist. It's been trending on Netflix. This show is starring with no name actress, not A-lister.
Shonda has the power and authority to adapt POC authors' books. It will be a hit regardless, b/c as long as there is marketing budget in it, it will be a hit. It doesn't need to have build in fanbase from books, because Shonda Rhimes have fanbase herself. By having Grey's Anatomy etc, she has a list of hit tv shows. 1 cancelled TV show like Still Star-Crossed doesn't have consequences for her because she has a list of hits in her belt.
So, it's not a defensible argument for Shonda not to adapt black author's books.
Mosaic wrote: "By having Grey's Anatomy etc, she has a list of hit tv shows. 1 cancelled TV show like Still Star-Crossed doesn't have consequences for her because she has a list of hits in her belt."Quantico and For the People were two other shows of her's that were also cancelled (neither of them what could be called "too black" either, rather the opposite actually) but you're right; she has more hits than misses.
She definitely has an inbuilt audience, of the people who watched the show I don't think the majority would have read the books (beforehand, anyway). From what i saw in fandom among the various viewers the diversity drew some while others came for Shonda and sometimes it was both. Book readers were a minority. That's often the case when it comes to adaptations. And who knows how many readers didn’t watch because of the racebending. There was some controversy/outrage surrounding that, although I only skimmed the surface so I don't know how far it went but I can imagine some readers wouldn't have been interested in the show because of that.
Rebecca wrote: "Quantico and For the People were two other shows of her's that were also cancelled"Quantico is not Shondaland's production. Only For the People is Shondaland's production.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantic...
Yeah, the, maybe majority of, fans of original novels most likely wouldn't tune in b/c of the racebending issue. So the talk about Shonda Rhimes adapting popular books from white authors b/c of the book fanbase is kinda hilarious to me.
Any time there is racebending, and if the books are oriented toward white fandoms, there will be outrage (most likely racial, though there are some valid criticisms about the plot and storyline) from the fans. It's not going to be well-received from the fans. So, there is low expectation that the readers are tuning in for the shows whenever racebending is involved.
Talking about all these racebending adaptations, I want to watch LOTR on Amazon Prime. I've watched The Wheel of Time, and it's actually pretty good. Since Amazon spent all these money (considering Jeff Bezos is one of the richest men in the world rn) on the CGI, I'm very excited to watch it.
This year is filled with alot of racebending fantasy novels turned tv adaptations - IWTV, VA, LOTR, House of Dragons etc. I want to watch them all.
And then whenever there are fantasy books from POC authors adaptations are released (i.e Raybearer), I'm gonna watch that too. But it seems that it is taking some time to get it on air.
Mosaic wrote: "Yeah, the, maybe majority of, fans of original novels most likely wouldn't tune in b/c of the racebending issue. So the talk about Shonda Rhimes adapting popular books from white authors b/c of the book fanbase is kinda hilarious to me.Anytime there is racebending, and if the books are oriented toward white fandoms, there will be outrage (most likely racial, though there are some valid criticisms about the plot and storyline) from the fans. It's not going to be well-received from the fans. So, there is low expectation that the readers are tuning in for the shows whenever racebending is involved."
I feel like you're greatly underestimating how much white romance readers like Bridgerton and other historical romances. The people who will be outraged about it are a vocal group but a minority group and they rarely ever affect the popularity of the end product.
Bookstagrammers are doing re-read challenges, countdowns, and celebrating Simone Ashley. Like, all my social media is full of romance readers being excited about this right now. I woke up today and honestly thought it had been released already because of the sheer amount of readers and reviewers talking about it.
You think all the people calling Amandla the n-word when she was cast as Rue hurt the Hunger Games adaptations? Magicians, Preacher, Shadowhunters, The Vampire Diaries, Deadpool, Altered Carbon, Invincible, Spiderman... Most of the time, the racebending works out fine. The mass majority of white GRRM and Tolkien fans are not going to boycott HoD and LOTR over a few poc characters. The same way they didn't boycott Witcher or Wheel of Time or anything else.
And even if the book fans don't stick with it, the built-in fanbase does the legwork on hyping the show before it comes out, so having a built-in fanbase is not dismissable. Hell, after season 1, Bridgerton went back on the bestseller list.
Also, I just want to be clear that I wasn't defending Shonda Rhimes on this, just saying that if she wants to make shows that appeal to a broader white mainstream audience as opposed to a smaller black audience then that's her prerogative.
Her fanbase was built on Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice. I honestly don't know why people expect her to have black representation as her priority just because of Scandal and Kerry Washington. And even then, Scandal only had maybe 3 black characters in it at any point in time, total, and Olivia Pope was on the receiving end of a lot of insults and degradation from a ton of white characters. White characters had a ton of development and it went from being about Olivia to being some kind of ensemble drama starring Mellie and Quinn by the end.
White Shonda fans and white Julia Quinn fans are not going to boycott Bridgerton because over the casting. And then add to that the promotional angle where the entire thing is marketed as a win for diversity and if you had anything negative or critical to say against it, you were racist? Even if the book fans don't like the changes, social pressure alone will make them watch it and praise it.
Lol, I, a black woman, was called racist and colorist by fellow black women for casually pointing out the colorist issues in the plot and casting of S1.
What exactly has Shonda Rhimes done in terms of black female rep (aside from Olivia Pope) to make people expect her to be adapting books by black authors now that she's made it big on Netflix? She literally bypassed so many black actresses in order to pay Julie Andrews something like 2 million dollars just to be the narrator and read a few lines every episode.
Zenny wrote: "You think all the people calling Amandla the n-word when she was cast as Rue hurt the Hunger Games adaptations? Magicians, Preacher, Shadowhunters, The Vampire Diaries, Deadpool, Altered Carbon, Invincible, Spiderman... Most of the time, the racebending works out fine. The mass majority of white GRRM and Tolkien fans are not going to boycott HoD and LOTR over a few poc characters. The same way they didn't boycott Witcher or Wheel of Time or anything else."You mention that POC racebending didn't attract boycott, but the thing is there are people in real life who do boycott. It's just that neither of us talk too much of the flop of the movies or tv shows in here. I'm sure vocal minority is the reason why it sounds like boycott online; nevertheless, there are people in real life (not from internet or social media for that matter) who won't watch for racebending reasons alone. Maybe not the majority, but a good group of people.
Zenny wrote: "Also, I just want to be clear that I wasn't defending Shonda Rhimes on this, just saying that if she wants to make shows that appeal to a broader white mainstream audience as opposed to a smaller black audience then that's her prerogative."
Again, which is the reason why I said that Shonda's greedy by her fame, not generosity.
From previous response, you implied that built in fanbase is the primary justification for Shonda Rhimes not to adapt black authors' novels. My main argument is that Shonda Rhimes doesn't need to have novel build in fanbase to have successful tv shows. Her Inventing Anna is a hit on Netflix, and it's starring with D-list actress.
There is power from producers like Shonda Rhimes to expand the horizon for audience by introducing POC authors' books, and it doesn't have to be limited to only white authors' books. The concept of "if you cast black actress or actor in tv show based on black authors' books, it's only limited to smaller black audience" is myopic.
Anyway, moving on, I'm watching Sanditon. I think Crystal Clarke's character, Georgiana, has love interest who is white. In season 1, her character broke it off, and now in this season, she has another love interest.
Mosaic wrote: "You implied that built in fanbase is the primary justification for Shonda Rhimes not to adapt black authors' novels. My main argument is that Shonda Rhimes doesn't need to have novel build in fanbase to have successful tv shows. Her Inventing Anna is a hit on Netflix, and it's starring with D-list actress.Rationale, not justification. Rationale.
Given the choice between adapting a series that goes twenty years back with a thriving fanbase in the millions vs adapting a smaller series by a less famous author, aside from Shonda being a black woman herself, what incentive is there for her to do this?
She's greedy? Okay, yeah. Most successful producers are. Most people in business go in the direction they think maximises their profit. That's just economics and human psychology. And yeah, she could probably afford to take the risk now and use her power for black representation, but that's her prerogative.
The concept of "if you cast black actress or actor in tv show based on black authors' books, it's only limited to smaller black audience" is myopic.
It may be myopic but it's the prevalent attitude from Hollywood, from book publishers, from book authors, book reviewers... basically all forms of western mainstream media over the last several decades. Black Panther and two Jordan Peele movies didn't change the centuries-old biases in place that dictate what shows get made and who they get marketed to.
There are probably hundreds of articles and interviews with actors, directors, etc, about the struggle they face to not be pigeonholed, about being stuck in positions where they can't get to do the stories they want to do and only get to do stories on black issues and the struggle, etc. Not everyone is about that life. Not everyone is trying to fight that battle.
Bridgerton might not be made with black women as its target demo, but this season they have a heroine who's south Asian. Outside of Bollywood, there aren't a lot of Indian women being cast as romantic leads either. Will some racist white women boycott it? Maybe. Enough of them to counter the people who'll watch it specifically for the Indian rep? Doubtful.
At a certain point, you just have to live and let live.
Zenny wrote: "Will some racist white women boycott it?"LOL, the racists already came out of the woodwork to boycott it in 1st season, but since season 1 was such a hit among POC and suburbs audience, their voices got drowned out. Some Youtubers (race baiting ones) screamed about reverse-racism (LOL) about casting biracial POC actors/actresses as traditionally white characters, like certain ones from Lord of the Rings.
You're talking about the racial attitude being myopic, but at the same time, you are not trying to fight against it means you are allowing it to happen. That's the worst type of detachment and apathy of all. I call it bystander effect. You being inured to it doesn't mean it's right.
But again, that's me. You are about that "not everyone is trying to fight that battle," so *shrug*, but I am.
While I understand @Zenny's POV, I have strong morals and ethics, so I can't be the person who watch something wrong happening and let it go. So, there's that. I've seen the teaser of IWTV, so I'm excited to see how AMC shows the characters.
In addition, I've watched All the Old Knives on Amazon Prime. Thandiwe Newton is so good in the movie with Chris Pine.
I am down for any show or movie with Thandie. A brilliant actor.
They are creating a prequel to the Bridgerton series that centers on young Queen Charlotte and young lady Danbury. It is supposed to be about Charlotte coming in as a newlywed to King George and how this version of London society became available to blacks. Unlike the original adapted series which is written and showrun by someone else, this one will be written and showrun by Shonda.
regarding Thandie Newton, I unreservedly loved her. Until she showed her entire ass earlier this year. For some reason she, unprompted, decided to take to twitter to apologize to dark-skinned black women for being light-skinned and for taking all the roles from them and all the men from them. Also she claims that she has never felt more racism from anyone that she has from Black American women. and every time she referred to herself as "black" she used scare quotes.
Meanwhile black women on twitter were like... where did this come from? Did we ask for an apology from you? Everybody was puzzled because nobody was checking for Thandie one way or the other. But it is incredibly tone deaf to part of a very racially entrenched industry that for years has erased black women and also when they do finally begin to include them trend toward the very light skinned. The fact that she is the beneficiary of colorism -- and seems to acknowledge this -- but then turns around and blames black women and not the system is the mind boggling to me. She really tarnished her brand for me with that bullshit.
Mosaic wrote: "While I understand @Zenny's POV, I have strong morals and ethics, so I can't be the person who watches something wrong happening and let it go. So, there's that. You're talking about the racial attitude being myopic, but at the same time, you are not trying to fight against it means you are allowing it to happen. That's the worst type of detachment and apathy of all. I call it bystander effect. You being inured to it doesn't mean it's right.
I wrote a romance novel with a black female protagonist. I literally wrote the book I wanted to read. I am literally trying to be the change I want to see and write the representation I wanted to read. I'm doing what I can. I am not famous, I have zero social presence, but I'm literally trying to write some representation for the sake of black female representation. What are you doing to call me a bystander other than picking a fight on Goodreads over Bridgerton and attacking people you don't know?
Can I make Shonda Rhimes produce more shows with black women? No. Can I single-handedly wipe out ableism, misogyny, racism and colorism from all books, movies, and TV shows? No. But I wrote something that a few other people read and enjoyed. Is it perfect? No. But I'm doing what is in my power to do.
Who do you want me to fight, Netflix? What fighting power do you think I have?
You have strong morals and ethics, and what, I don't? Because I'm of the opinion that Shonda Rhimes, despite being a black woman, has the right to do whatever type of representation she chooses? She can produce what she wants. That's a fact and it's the sum total of what I said.
Do you want us to all collectively hate Bridgerton and swear to never watch it again? Which accomplishes what? People have to find their entertainment wherever they can get it sometimes. You can't shame people for that.
I don't have strong morals because I'm not excited about Interview with the Vampire with yet another demonized/sexualized black child on TV screens for no clear reason?
Where are your strong morals concerning Thandie Newton who woke up one morning, completely unprompted, and decided to throw the collective of dark skin black women under a bus because, according to her, black American women are more racist than white people in England or some nonsense like that? She went full reverse colourism for no reason at all. I'm not even American and that was offensive to me, someone who had been a fan of hers for years. I've seen maybe 90% of all her shows and movies but I saw Old Knives up there and just couldn't watch it. I should get on a soapbox about my strong morals then and shame you for watching it?
This is perhaps the most bizarre callout I think I've ever gotten anywhere. I don't even understand what you're saying anymore or what you think you know about me to call me detached and apathetic. Like, what? Sources, please?
This is a weird thing to wake up to.
This whole thing just feels like a personal attack now. I don't know what your problem is with me, but just leave me a 1-star hate review or DM me on reddit or insta or somewhere and we can hash it out because I'm genuinely confused right now and doing this weird finger-pointing argument on here is just adding toxicity to an otherwise friendly space imo.
Mod
As a writer, not author, I will always write the stories that I like to read. People are free to read or not read my stories. I will not change for anyone. I am a firm believer that every writer should write the story they like to read. Don’t ever write for fans. Don’t ever write what fans want you to write. You will never be true to yourself, if you write a fan’s story.
I am not a fan of Shonda. I think she should do what she wants to do. Just because she’s black, doesn’t mean she has to do black. I am not a fan of Bridgerton. I have seen a few minutes of an episode and it stopped there.
If black authors are looking for someone to bring their books to tv, please find someone that will do justice to your story. I used to be a heavy Historical Romance reader, before I came into contact with contemporary romance books. I love For The Roses series by Julie Garwood. I hated the TV movie Rose Hill. They did not do justice to Julie Garwood’s Clayborne story. They’d actually messed up Julie Garwood’s Clayborne story. I am glad that I have read Julie Garwood’s wonderful story, before watching the movie. I can’t read a book to a movie. After watching a movie and if I like it and find out there’s a book(s); for the right price, I will buy the book(s) for a souvenir. Rose Hill made me not care to watch a movie, if I have read the book already.
Black authors that wants their story to be made into a movie, might need to go Indie. Not having a big budget or higher number doesn’t mean your story isn’t good or shouldn’t be seen on screen.
As for Thandie, I think that she was apologizing to dark skinned black actresses, because American black women were accusing her for doing something that she was not. I have witnessed American black women accused white women for taking their men as in black men. First off, black men do not belong to black women. No black man belong to this American black woman. If a black man wants to marry a white woman. Go for it. A lot of dark skinned black women can’t stand light skin black women, because in their eyes, they feel the light skin black woman think they are better than they are. They don’t like them, because a lot of dark skinned black guys like light skin black women. They feel they are stealing their men. That’s where Thandie’s comment about stealing their men, may have came from.
It is not Thandie’s fault that she has been approached to play certain roles instead of a dark skinned black woman. She has bill to pay as well. She has apologized to dark skinned actresses, for being picked for the role. I wonder how many black roles that Thandie has been single handed picked/written for compared to her beating a dark skinned black actress for the part. That’s a huge difference, because some roles are written for a certain actress or actor and some roles are given to the better actress or actor during audition.
It has not been peaches and cream for Thandie, because of her skin color.
There are not a lot of actresses or actors in any race. That’s why so many of them are recycle actresses or actors.
This color fight is exhausting.I do not care if the person is light black, half black, dark black, medium black or any shade in between. As long as the actor is black, and the black person is getting work - I am good. Good for them.
Thandie is a better woman than I, because I would not have apologized.
Mod
I do not care if the person is light black, half black, dark black, medium black or any shade in between. As long as the actor is black, and the black person is get..."
Justine, I am tired of the color fight as well. After posting my comment, I thought about white people and how they come in different shades too. I don’t see white people making a deal about Cate Blanchard getting a role instead of Julia Roberts.
If a role calls for a black woman, then give it to a black woman. Now I have a problem with the higher up people trying to change the shade of the black woman’s skin. For instance, if the black woman is supposed to be dark skinned, do not hire a light skin black woman and darken her skin for the part or hire a dark skinned black woman and lighten her skin, if the role is for a light skinned black woman.
Justine wrote: "Thandie is a better woman than I, because I would not have apologized."A) I agree the issue of colorism is very exhausting. But then everything about racism is exhausting.
B) Most of the conversation around colorism isn't directed to a specific actress or person, but to the system that fosters it. Representation matters. Everyone wants to see themselves represented. The conversation around Shonda on here is another flavor of the conversation around Hollywood casting and colorism. Black women want to see themselves. Dark skinned black women want to see themselves. Large women want to see themselves. Afro-Latinas want to be included in the conversations around Latina representation which they often are erased from.
C) Most of time if a specific actress is singled out on SM it is because she makes a point of downplaying or denying her own blackness yet will go for roles that are specifically written for black actresses. It is not an issue of not wanting a black woman to get a role regardless of her shade, it is about hypocrisy.
D) Most of the reaction to Thandiwe's rant was bafflement because nobody was checking for Thandiwe. Nobody asked for an apology. She is barely on the radar of a lot of AA women. As someone pointed out she historically dates white men so where the "I am stealing your men" came from was also baffling and feels like a dog whistle. Who even says that? She sounded unhinged. Also Afro-Brits were just as baffled as AA women. In fact a few of the most scathing responses came from Afro-Brit women. If someone did say something about her, don't condemn an entire community of women whose history you don't share and have never tried to have community with.
In the end it is tone deaf and disingenuous for her to not be aware that she is a recipient of light skinned privilege and for her to weaponize her tears to tear down other black women with her scare quotes and her fake apology.
Arch wrote: "Justine wrote: "This color fight is exhausting.I do not care if the person is light black, half black, dark black, medium black or any shade in between. As long as the actor is black, and the bla..."
B) When you think of a dark skinned black actress, who do you think of? I think of Viola, Lupita, Whoopi, Monique, Cicely Tyson, Danai Gurira. All others fall into multilple shades of black.
Don't these actresses work?
Arch wrote: "Justine wrote: "This color fight is exhausting.I do not care if the person is light black, half black, dark black, medium black or any shade in between. As long as the actor is black, and the bla..."
c) What do you mean by downplaying her blackness yet going for black roles? I don't understand this? Is the black person bleaching her skin wearing colored contacts? I have never understood this statement. If said black person is comfortable in her skin and with who she is, what is she supposed to be doing to prove her blackness? And if she is black why shouldn't she go for the role if it calls for a black woman? Is there supposed to be some degree of blackness beyond skin color?
Tina wrote: "Justine wrote: "Thandie is a better woman than I, because I would not have apologized."A) I agree the issue of colorism is very exhausting. But then everything about racism is exhausting.
B) Mos..."
D): Thandie is British and has been married to her white husband for going on 25 years. I can find no remarks from Afro Brits about Thandie's apology. Were these on a social media site?
Tina wrote: "Justine wrote: "Thandie is a better woman than I, because I would not have apologized."A) I agree the issue of colorism is very exhausting. But then everything about racism is exhausting.
B) Mos..."
YES. To aaaaaall of this. I get being tired of in-fighting, so to speak. Nitpicking when we are all seen as black. But considering the struggle for so many of us to even feel valued within our own culture, its still relevant. We can be tired. Doesn't matter. Community has done it to ourselves. Now we have to claw our way out and there are dues to be paid. Too light, too dark. It all caused damage. Blame our fatigue on stupidity perpetuated inclusive of Hollywood but certainly not limited to it.
Arch wrote: "Everyone will be respected on this group. It’s okay to disagree, but do so with respect. Everyone will not see things the same way. No fighting on this group. The group owner and moderators can be ..."I think its crucial to note, the issues are not just stemming from dark skinned black women not liking light skinned women. Not at all. Its been a sickness taught from the cradle across all shades since the plantations. Its the overall perception that light is better. Preferential. And the denigration of dark. All of this is just a reaction to that trickling down through time. And that outcry is on both sides now that black women have stopped believing they have to wait for the proverbial "strong black man". I see more black men up in arms about black women of ALL shades flocking to white men. And I'll go as far as to say, its partially our own fault for the colorism in our community. You make someone feel unwanted long enough, they WILL go where the love is. White men don't seem to have the same issues with skin color we do. I don't see near the outcry from black women about black men of any shade dating and marrying white women any longer. I think we are overall desensitized to it to a degree. Its standard.
Just my thoughts.
Justine wrote: "Arch wrote: "Justine wrote: "This color fight is exhausting.I do not care if the person is light black, half black, dark black, medium black or any shade in between. As long as the actor is black..."
Yes, they work. But there is a reason that these actresses have just about all weighed in on the TYPES of roles they get and how they very much realize they are not considered to be acceptable for certain parts because of their skin tone. Viola Davis has been exceptionally forthright in her interviews. Dark skinned women in Hollywood are the help. The strong but sexless women with attitudes. The no nonsense best friends with no apparant love lives of their own. Caricatures at times and even the meaty roles have not been those of their lighter counterparts.
Fans of Interracial Romance
Books mentioned in this topic
The Flatshare (other topics)The Flatshare (other topics)
The Flatshare (other topics)
Le Morte d'Arthur: King Arthur and the Legends of the Round Table (other topics)
Being a huge DC fangirl myself, I know that Dick is a promiscuous asshole in comic books, but Titans is a terrible show. Dick has myriad of relationships in comic books -- most famous one is Barbara who later becomes Oracle/Batgirl. Currently, WB is planning Batgirl with Leslie Grace, and since WB (most of the times) hates sharing character depiction between TV and movies, I doubt Titans will bring in Barbara. And if the actor who plays Dick is saying Barbara x Dick is the endgame, then he's wrong. Barbara stays single after the break up with Dick and later becomes Oracle.
This is current movie version of Barbara.
Since WBTV is embroiled in scandals rn and with people talking about how Titans cast are arrogant assholes in real life, I doubt Titans will last that long if WB is bringing the live action on movies. I'm pretty sure WB will cast their live action movie for Titans soon anyway. Especially now The Flash is now in motion for revamping the entire Justice League cast, possibility with Robert Pattinson being new Batman and Zoë Kravitz as Catwoman.
Maybe then we can see a better storyline for Nightwing x Starfire, and I'm certain that WB will keep having black actress for Starfire b/c it will look bad on them if they cast light-skinned biracial/black actress for Starfire. WB keeps their race-bend cast for The Flash movie version too, so.
Also, I'm dissing CW and WBTV, but WBTV section don't treat POC cast well. I've read rumors about their treatment toward black actresses and with their natural hair. It's just absolutely horrible. Titans being the example of it. Then again, in Hollywood, most background producers/directors don't treat POC well anyway. Disney ain't good either, so.
Another (possibility) involvement with IR romance - Keke Palmer is collaborating with Jasmine Guillory about original stories on Amazon. Not sure how long will it be for Jasmine Guillory's books being adapted for TV shows.