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message 4201: by Goesta (new)

Goesta Averin wrote: "When was the phrase "out and proud" first used? "

Oh, right. A factual queery, how (cf. rule 1) tedious. I recall the research being mentioned in previous posts, to which I cannot add, I'm afraid. No doubt you noticed that the wikipedia citations about the origin of the Pride idea coming from the early 70s and Brenda Howard's circle are either dead links or lead to live twinks.

Here's a photo from NY in 1970:



So the idea of gay pride was definitely there, but as to the rhetoric of "out and proud," I couldn't say, purely anecdotally it sounds mid- to late-eighties to me, but I wasn't part of the first "wave" of course.


message 4202: by Averin (new)

Averin | 1962 comments Goesta wrote: "Averin wrote: "When was the phrase "out and proud" first used? "

Oh, right. A factual queery, how (cf. rule 1) tedious. I recall the research being mentioned in previous posts, to which I cannot a..."


That, I believe, is the truth. But I have to prove it as tedious authors fight me at every objection. It's all very well and good if one creates a world of one's own, except there, I insist one must be true to that world. Do not tell me a character has a "hand of power" and that it is his right and later make it inexplicably left.

The same is true with history. Especially if I was alive, and conscious, at least for some of that time period. I'm going to question that which appears to miss on verisimilitude. If one is going to apply the history of a group celebrated by this genre, be accurate and respectful. Flinging historical references about willy-nilly is discourteous, to say the least.


Ije the Devourer of Books | 14524 comments What a fab Afro


Macky sorry to hear you are not feeling well. Xxxx


message 4204: by Gabbo (new)

Gabbo Parra (lordgabux) | 559 comments I was so ready to be under the rule of BoySton (Boyd & Preston) and now I extremely miffed that we have a king without a virtual consort.

I think is ridiculous to call Pride a sin when everyone from the highest to the lowest dives and drowns in it from time to time. I'm a firm advocate of embrace our differences, those things that make each individual (regardless of their sexual orientation), unique and perfect.

So in this apparent war between same-sex and different-sex relationships what happens with those who are bi-sexual? Can those be the ones to bring the other two factions into an agreement?

Can a leader rise from the delicious abundance that is liking both genders?


message 4205: by Anil (new)

Anil (loykalina) | 303 comments I am astonished that Gabbo doesn't know bisexuals are in fact confused people. They are also sexually selfish! They are the reason why gays are considered to be cured out of homosexuality.

I'll be astonished if you take these words above seriously.


message 4206: by Aves (new)

Aves Raggiana (avesraggiana) | 200 comments Roger wrote: "Heavens, Aves, I must protest at your fragrant flagrant flaunting of the F word, banned by the group rules, which you begrudgingly agree to really READ… etc, etc. :))"

Oops, sorry. Own post appropriately amended.


message 4207: by Gabbo (new)

Gabbo Parra (lordgabux) | 559 comments Anil wrote: "I am astonished that Gabbo doesn't know bisexuals are in fact confused people. They are also sexually selfish! They are the reason why gays are considered to be cured out of homosexuality.

I'll b..."


Yeah there's a lot of confusion in this world Sweet Anil. (hoot) I wonder what would happen if we show some bisexual porn to these religious bigots. There are women involved so it should not be a sin, right? If it's about procreation there's something to procreate there.


message 4208: by Anil (new)

Anil (loykalina) | 303 comments I am saddened not to know what those religious bigots think about clinical procreation. Should it not be a sin since couples don't have sex?


message 4209: by Gabbo (new)

Gabbo Parra (lordgabux) | 559 comments I'm discombobulated to accept that that scientific detail never crossed my mind. Well, this is coming from the same people who have in their holy manual book that if a guy has his genitals mangled or whatever he shall not enter the house of their deity so...

I'm just so glad my animist religion is so open minded, hahahaha.


message 4210: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Gabbo wrote: "Can a leader rise from the delicious abundance that is liking both genders?"

Or one who isn't interested in either?


message 4211: by Gabbo (last edited Jun 13, 2013 12:10PM) (new)

Gabbo Parra (lordgabux) | 559 comments Lori wrote: "Gabbo wrote: "Can a leader rise from the delicious abundance that is liking both genders?"

Or one who isn't interested in either?"


That's a totally plausible option too. Nevertheless, I have to remind you of all the mess that some groups have made working under the impression that The Christ was asexual, or as they try to put it, too otherworldly to be interested in sex.

And here I say, how can you understand man if you don't experience all the things that man experiences. hmmm?


message 4212: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Goesta wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I ran across a couple of articles about why that could be, and I'm truly interested in the mens' opinions on it."

Och, what a can of worms. You will find that the Salon article event..."


Vexed and irked, I must thank you for your reply, Goesta. I am, as Boyd is so intelligently pointing out, learning about all of this, while he is annoyingly somewhat like a walking encyclopedia of facts and information of which I think we should plumb the depths of more often. Down, boy. I meant Tin Tin. Who is reprehensibly cute, by the way.

Eye candy and intelligent--I truly don't comprehend can understand why you're still single, Boyd. You seem to be a tremendous frightful catch to me. Is is tentacles? Somehow I think those might be in your favor as well. :-) Sorry, I don't know what made me say that. (I think catch went to fishing went to ocean went to fish went to octopus. Strange synaptic connections). Truthfully, I think you're attractive appalling and you're half my age, but the curls and wit and green eyes and picking apart my examples just really get to me. LOL

Seriously, though, I won't tease if it bothers you. I understand some people are sensitive about such things, but if you are going to use my attempts at understanding as fodder :-) for learning more and actually becoming education, a little teasing always helps me learn better. :-)


message 4213: by Lori S. (last edited Jun 13, 2013 12:30PM) (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Gabbo wrote: "Lori wrote: "Gabbo wrote: "Can a leader rise from the delicious abundance that is liking both genders?"

Or one who isn't interested in either?"

That's a totally plausible option too. Nevertheless..."


To be honest, I wasn't thinking of Jesus when I wrote the post.

I was just thinking that there are other orientations than hetero-homo-bi which people are becoming more aware of and there are those who might be able to fill in the gaps between the rest. (For instance I identify as asexual myself and am offering a different point of view as such.) ~if that made any sense?~


message 4214: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Goesta wrote: "PPS: to put my pen where my mouth is:

For what it's worth, please sign this petition against new Russian anti-gay law."


Reluctantly signed and sent to others. :-)


message 4215: by Averin (new)

Averin | 1962 comments Wendy wrote: "Goesta wrote: "Wendy wrote: "Is it tentacles?"

Och, what a can of worms. You will find that the Salo..."


I have to ask, are you familiar with Sholto, Lord of the In Between?


message 4216: by Gabbo (last edited Jun 13, 2013 01:03PM) (new)

Gabbo Parra (lordgabux) | 559 comments Lori wrote: "Gabbo wrote: "Lori wrote: "Gabbo wrote: "Can a leader rise from the delicious abundance that is liking both genders?"

Or one who isn't interested in either?"

That's a totally plausible option too..."


I just used Jesus as an example.

For what I have seen in my many years on Earth (not that I came from other planet, just stating that I was born a long time ago) if bigots hate same-sex relationships they are even more scared of asexuality, because technically (according to those scaredy sillies), it means that you don't need a physical counterpart, and how dare you being capable of living without a sexual partner, they yell aggravated.

I think that if a double dipper voice is good, a none dipper is even better, because that one would not have sexual distractions. And those things can be reaaaaallllyyyy distracting.


message 4217: by Anil (last edited Jun 13, 2013 01:22PM) (new)

Anil (loykalina) | 303 comments I am a little bit embarrassed that the photo below almost made me cry:

description

Mothers formed a human chain in Taksim, Istanbul to protect their kids and other protesters from the police's attacks.


message 4218: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Anil wrote: "I am a little bit embarrassed that the photo below almost made me cry:



Mothers formed a human chain in Taksim, Istanbul to protect their kids and other protesters from the police's attacks."


Unfortunately the picture didn't show up Anil. I always have trouble with the picture function. :o(


message 4219: by Anil (new)

Anil (loykalina) | 303 comments I am sorry that the picture function doesn't work for Lori. You can click on this link and check other photos.;)

http://gundem.milliyet.com.tr/anneler...


message 4220: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Gabbo wrote: "For what I have seen in my many years on Earth (not that I came from other planet, just stating that I was born a long time ago) if bigots hate same-sex relationships they are even more scared of asexuality, because technically (according to those scaredy sillies), it means that you don't need a physical counterpart, and how dare you being capable of living without a sexual partner, they yell aggravated.

Oh quite, I must gripe along with you. While I haven't directly encountered such people, I have read the accounts of others who have and it's not pretty. (I have, I think, been exceedingly lucky in family and friends.) While asexuals do cover the same spectrum that everyone else does (romantically and sexually [yeah, I'm confused too]), a lot of us just don't see the point of sex.

I think that if a double dipper voice is good, a none dipper is even better, because that one would not have sexual distractions. And those things can be reaaaaallllyyyy distracting."

I have, on occasion, been a bit distracted by a guy I had a romantic crush on, but that's about it.

And we have a lot more time to read, or watch bad movies based on favorite books ...


message 4221: by Lori S. (last edited Jun 13, 2013 02:00PM) (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Anil wrote: "I am sorry that the picture function doesn't work for Lori. You can click on this link and check other photos.;)

http://gundem.milliyet.com.tr/anneler......"


That's wonderful awful that they (had to do) did that.


message 4222: by Boyd, Hunk of hunky burning passion (last edited Jun 13, 2013 05:31PM) (new)

Boyd (boydwalker) | 2304 comments I woefully regret I must honor Lucas by reminding you of his rule for this Post Complaints Here thread. This is his friggin Rule 1 and every freaking one of us adorable, funny, caring, and friendly members who post in this thread must follow it or else you will be forced to do your laundry on my abs. No wait, change that to will be forced to give a sensual massage to New Jersey governor Chis Christie.



I say this as eye candy only so it isn't official, just a friendly member to member comment. (smiling pretty)

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.

1. In the Post Complaints Here topic all posts must be posed in the form of complaints.


message 4223: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Preston wrote: "Wendy wrote: "in terms of things not being, as Boyd puts it, not all that rosy today, I ran across a couple of articles about why that could be, and I'm truly interested in the mens' opinions on it..."

I can't word this as a complaint, sorry for breaking Rule #1. Thank you, Preston, for your very frank and honest answer. Nice to hear from you. I wasn't expecting an answer from your direction. My one argument would be that straight isn't necessarily normal, or assimilated, or Borg like. I'm straight, and I don't fit into a straight world either--there doesn't seem to be a little box with a label where I can be placed. So I hope this doesn't mean that you're against straight people in general, or that you feel you're better than us, because that's sort of a reverse blanket statement. Like me making as assumption that all people who are gay do such and such because they're gay. Everyone is different and remains their own individual (hopefully). I admire that you feel so strongly and would stick to your beliefs regardless of the situation. I know from first hand experience that's a hard thing to do.

But who's to say you're not normal? I think people love who they do, and there's nothing abnormal about that. (Well, other than the fact that I've tried to escape being normal most of my life). There's nothing wrong with not being "normal." I don't know you, I can't psychically guess anything about you, other than from your second to last full paragraph, you should try your hand at writing, if you don't already.

Trying to be neutral here and avoid eggshells. Personally, I have always thought Dan Savage's column was interesting--he doesn't lie in his answers--they're his opinions, yes, but he doesn't candy-coat things and tell people what he thinks they want to hear.

What if, not compromising anything about yourself whatsoever, and you stay exactly who you are, there was a way to achieve equal rights?

I think that's the crux of the question being asked, however dated the article, whatever language it's couched in. I understand what's being said about pride being a separator between understanding because of the distancing effect. There's nothing inherently wrong in pride, being proud of what you are. Let me just put in a side note here.

I have a friend who self-diagnosed himself as having Asperger's. I have a lot of experience with autism and people on the spectrum, and I tended to agree with him. Since he had felt like he didn't belong anywhere his whole life, he latched on to this with a vengeance, and the support group he found claimed that people with Asperger's were better than "neurotypicals" simply because people with Asperger's were different, a step above the rest of us. Superior, even--he said as much in one of our conversations. I wasn't sure what to say to him. He was so happy he had found a place he fit in, but I really didn't care for the attitude of the group. I didn't want to be around them. They were, to put it simply, snooty and somewhat egotistical. Their pride in who they were distanced them because people didn't want to be around them--who wants to be treated as an inferior?

I'm trying to think of a non confusing way to put this--I just erased one paragraph. Do you think that some individuals who are gay take the idea of gay pride and turn it against individuals who are straight to say they are then inferior?

My point is, that possibly it does come down, to an extent, between pride and equality, and the fact that there is a difference between the two. Pride sets you above, equal doesn't make you the same, it gives you the same rights. If you had to choose between pride and equal rights, which would you choose? People with disabilities finally ended up with both, but they are still discriminated against, so it's not as if it magically fixes everything, but I think the rights are so important.

There is nothing mainstream America about wanting to be with your loved one if he's in the hospital after an accident but you don't have the right to be there. That's love, and it transcends everything. It shouldn't have to be a right, but unfortunately, it is.

I've just been informed that normal is a setting on a washing machine. I just got back after being away for a few hours, and now my entire line of thought, which was already becoming a little frazzled, is shot by the stupid washing machine.

I am straight. I am not normal. I am not Borg. Sorry about that, I don't fit into your pigeonholed ideas of straight. I'm mentally ill. We don't fit in either. We have a disability no one can see, so gods know what's wrong with us, what we're "making up" about our mental health. We're probably all psychotic.

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with you, and there's nothing wrong with me. Both of us have trouble with rights (trust me on that, if I were missing a leg or had a disability people could see, they'd trust me that I had a disability, but since they can't see it...). I was denied workman's comp--I've heard it's next to impossible to get workman's comp for mental health issues because they simply don't believe you.

I have to go again. This is insane. But truly, Preston, things can't be broken down so simply, or categorized so easily. Just as you're an individual, so are other people who aren't gay, who are willing to speak up and help. If that's acceptable.



message 4224: by Boyd, Hunk of hunky burning passion (last edited Jun 13, 2013 11:52PM) (new)

Boyd (boydwalker) | 2304 comments Wendy wrote: "Seriously, though, I won't tease if it bothers you. I understand some people are sensitive about such things,..."

Wendy pronounced so satisfyingly as Windy :::so pretty:::

I am angry to be so profoundly disturbed by your message 4356 (actually I not but I must comply with Rule 1). You make me blush (my pink cheeks turning red.) Please, continue to tease me especially with all that stuff about me being gorgeous. Oh please, please, please don't stop~!

As for smart well I just google a lot. You with your Masters in English Literature and published books and such an open and inventive mind are the truly intelligent one. Your questions are smarter that most peoples answers. You think with an amazingly free and creative way so that I am glued to your postings and your blog at this link:
http://livinginmultipleworlds.wordpre...

I heartily recommend reading the May 29 entry with it's warning to YA writers how devastating it is to perpetuate disparaging words for individuals with disabilities by using them in books. (Example: Bear, Otter, and the Kid)

Oh my gosh if I believed in the impossible Gay For You fantasy plot device, I might even be tempted to… naw there is no GFY but I send you my love~!
♡ ♡ ♡
xxx ooo
Boyd


message 4225: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Boyd wrote: "I heartily recommend reading the May 29 entry with it's warning to YA writers how devastating it is to perpetuate disparaging words for individuals with disabilities by using them in books. (Example: Bear, Otter, and the Kid)"

Sadly, I must complain that this is true of all fiction unfortunately. I point you to a discussion on the Kevin Connor mysteries about the disparaging remarks he and the other characters (and the author) make about large/overweight people. I glossed over those remarks when I read them in the book originally, until I read this perons's comments and realized just how barbed the books are about large people. Not a happy moment really since I've never been a nice, skinny/thin person. And I really enjoyed those books too! To borrow from Helle (who, I hope, is feeling better): Grrrr.


message 4226: by Preston, Moderator (last edited Jun 13, 2013 11:44PM) (new)

Preston | 20148 comments Wendy wrote: "My point is, that possibly it does come down, to an extent, between pride and equality, and the fact that there is a difference between the two. Pride sets you above, equal doesn't make you the same, it gives you the same rights. If you had to choose between pride and equal rights, which would you choose?"

Hi Wendy,

I am infuriated that this is going to be one of my epic posts again and people will be upset that I obtrusively used too much space in the 'Post Complaints Here' thread…again.

I don't hate heterosexuals because their freakishly unnatural sexual acts is how we get really hot guys. For example Tj's hunky younger brother or her son both of which are super hot but unfortunately not gay. Although there is still hope for a GBTQ kid with her grandson who will be hotter than hot by the time he's of legal age. Tj we're just hoping for a healthy, happy grandbaby for you without regard to sexual orientation of course :) Besides your family has a disgustingly tragic inability to produce any males except straight guys. :(

Also my parents are heterosexual and I'm very fond of them. Plus I love all the gay-friendly straight and asexual women in this group because they are so much fun and empathetic too. I think our straight and asexual female members of the Complaint Department are some of the most beautiful women on this alien planet. Some of them are more excited about gay rights than the gay men are right now.

When I refer to the Borg I don't mean all straight people. I exclude our straight friends, especially fellow members who support us and care about us so fervently hoping that like Lucas, we all get our HEA lives with sexy husbands who are into public displays of affection (smiling.) My posting was already too long so I didn't add my definition of Borg to my excessive rant. Nor my feeling feeling of just wanting to be treated equally because all people both straight and gay have the potential to be good and equally worthwhile, even extraordinary young people and adults.

They have the potential but those with minds sets like radically ultraconservative tea party idiots, liars and hypocrites don't live up to that human potential and they become the Borg.

The Borg are the right wing usually fundamentalist religious radicals and do nothing jurists and politicians who resist our every attempt to have basic human rights guaranteed by the Constitution, all non-repressive federal law and the right to be different in all the spectrum of the LGBTQ rainbow. None of us are inferior or superior because of our sexual orientation or other sorts of minority statuses.

Gay Pride to me means many things including pride in myself that despite the world's efforts to beat me down, I have survived. (Please someone turn off that Gloria Gaynor song ear worm!) I believe Gay Pride is my pride in demanding my equal rights which we date back to the Stonewall Inn's courageous drag queens getting fed up and saying NO! to the police who turned to violence. That is why I and many others coordinate and associate Gay Pride with celebrations commemorating the resistance of those ferociously brave cross dressers.

I associate gay pride with my decision to come out as gay as a young age and the pride I feel for all the others who have decide to stand up and be counted. I think of documenting gay history as gay pride too to help LGBTQ kids to feel associated, not alienated by this word. I don't want them to grow up feeling invisible or hated or rejected or even ALIENated by the world's Borgs.

I can even get a little misty eyed when I feel pride for straight people who have no reason to accept let alone help us, do stand up for our human rights and our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I can see why Boyd likes you so much. Your thoughts are very refreshing and your postings (despite your modesty) are well written
with insight and feeling. I read your Blog about the TJ Klune and others perpetuating negative stereotypes for people with disabilities and I'm excited by your willingness to take your warning to writers and readers through your blog.

Speaking of disabilities you wrote that "I've heard it's next to impossible to get workman's comp for mental health issues because they simply don't believe you."

You are likely to already know everything that follows but it's good information to anyone reading this who has or knows someone in a situation where this might be helpful.

It is next to impossible for anyone who has not experienced an intensely horrific emotional trauma on the job to get workers comp because it is very hard to prove that the job caused your disability.

For instance if your disability was major depression the Workers Comp doctors could argue that this could be caused by any number of factors including a genetic predisposition to the disease thus it is not a job-related injury.

On the other hand it is possible to get Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and possibly for low income people Social Security Supplemental Insurance (SSI) with, let's use the same example, major depression because the requirements change. Not necessarily related to a compensation for a work injury you must not be able to do any kind of work without regard to the source of the disability—which is impossible to tell in this example.

It is still difficult to get approved for many people because they don't have enough medical evidence. The solution for that is expensive unless you have insurance coverage, however you could consider the expense an investment.

In this case a person should start seeing a mental health profession (preferably a psychiatrist but a psychologist could help at times) and begin getting antidepressants. Then it would be imperative to call up other psychiatrists and ask for an evaluation to be used in obtaining SSDI/SSI benefits. An evaluation could be $300 or more depending on the time the doctor put in to the eval and writing of a signed report. Two evaluations, one from the psychiatrist you are seeing regularly and one from another doctor or psychologist would be best.

If the SSDI people deny the claim then the applicant should go through the process of appealing that decision but back it up by continuing to gather medical evidence until you get approved.

It is insurance. People who have worked for an employer had money deducted from their paychecks to cover the cost of the insurance. People who have worked for a long time and got higher salaries will get much more money than those with little or no time as an employee and who made less money in wages.

Anyone willing to put the time and effort and money into documenting their mental health disability will succeed. Unfortunately it is usually the people with mental health disabilities are the ones who are the least able to have patience and money needed to have a SSDI/SSI claim approved. Regrettably it's ironic and very sad. that this is another human rights problem. There are very few resources and advocates for people with mental disabilities. It's an invisible disability and it's one that for some incomprehensible reason people with their washing machines set on normal seem to fear.

Hugs!
Preston


message 4227: by Aves (new)

Aves Raggiana (avesraggiana) | 200 comments I read Bear, Otter and the Kid twice, and absolutely loved it?

Who was the character with the disability? I don't remember one.


message 4228: by Preston, Moderator (last edited Jun 13, 2013 11:47PM) (new)

Preston | 20148 comments Aves wrote: "[I hate asking this queston but] I read Bear, Otter and the Kid twice, and absolutely loved it?

Who was the character with the disability? I don't remember one."


I disdainfully complain there wasn't one. But there 7 times Klune uses the word retarded as a disparaging word insulting a person who does not have mental retardation.

As Wendy wrote in her blog, "Usually, as soon as a derogatory term against the disabled community appears in a book I stop reading it, mark where I am, what the term was, and write up a quick note on Goodreads, Amazon, and my blog about it. The worse offenders are YA novels, which is really disturbing. The term in this case was “retarded,” one that seems to be on the upswing these days, sadly, as it had been slowing down for a while. The fact that it’s appearing in so many YA novels is really disturbing, I think, because it’s showing a whole new generation it’s ok to say those things. It’s being incorporated into their culture."

It's like straight kids today who call another straight kid gay just to insult them.

In neither case should this kind of language using derisive slurs against minorities be used in books, especially YA books, because it raises another generation of people who show cruel insensitivity and make highly inappropriate abusive remarks.

I don't know how this book with foul "adult" language gets pegged as a YA book anyway since Klune uses language we cannot use here in the Complaint Department. There are 111 instances where the f word used and 89 times where the four letter word for excrement is used.

And this is Young Adult? If we used these words in the Complaint Department, Goodreads would make use become an Adult closed
group kicking out any members under 18 and requiring that we only accept members by application and verification that their profiles says they are 18+.

Is that blasted ^$@%#@# exam over yet?

Much love to you Captain Aves. Hoping lots of widebodies are coming your way including one that clicks for a sincere LTR.


message 4229: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Preston wrote: "Roger wrote: "All hail Boyd-Preston! I shall start work on the commemorative mugs so beloved of Goesta."

Leave me out of this. I'm just a regular member who helps do some of the tech stuff. I am n..."


I am afraid that now the entirely inappropriate and unacceptable image of Preston and Boyd wearing absolutely sexy unflattering steampunk attire is conjured up by this post. Leather vests and pants would look completely divine hideous, don't you think?


message 4230: by Wendy (new)

Wendy BTW, my most insincere apologies for having to leave with a post half finished--too much delightful PIA running around in advance for SO's daughter's 8th grade graduation this evening, which was very moving atrocious and dull.

I'm sure it was much to Preston's delight dismay that I was pulled away.


message 4231: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Boyd wrote: "Why Isn't There A Straight Pride Month?

LZ Granderson, CNN Contributer

See the brief article at this link:
http://pastehtml.com/view/d5lwt2zgi.txt"


It is my dire misfortune to inform you that I did attempt to follow said link, but it was lunk because my computer refused to go there, naughty thing. Most exceptionally disagreeable.


message 4232: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Averin wrote: "Goesta wrote: "Averin wrote: "When was the phrase "out and proud" first used? "

Oh, right. A factual queery, how (cf. rule 1) tedious. I recall the research being mentioned in previous posts, to w..."


Averin, I have to whinge about my mental state that I don't remember if I mentioned or not last night about the (Boyd, is there a certain number of complaints we need to put in?) phrase "out and proud" being on a banner for a gay pride parade, and that's the closest reference I could find. I am flummoxed and bejabbered that there was no year posted with that.


message 4233: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Averin wrote: "Wendy wrote: "Goesta wrote: "Wendy wrote: "Is it tentacles?"

Och, what a can of worms. You will find that the Salo..."

I have to ask, are you familiar with Sholto, Lord of the In Between?"



I find I am required to respond in despair and despondence that no, I am not familiar with Sholto, Lord of the In Between? Is this someone I should know or someone whose acquaintance I should avoid? I would be quite chagrined to put out a "Looking for Sholto, Lord of the In Between" on Craigslist, only to discover after he has eaten half of my leg, that he's really someone I should have avoided.

Unfortunately, and much to my disgrace, I am somewhat of a trial and error learner, which I don't think is good if I were to be dealing with any higher or lesser demons or denizens of the underword, or the in between. I think any such interactions would be undertaken with much grumbling and grousing on my part, inevitably followed by my being replaced by a smoking pile of charred remains.


message 4234: by Boyd, Hunk of hunky burning passion (new)

Boyd (boydwalker) | 2304 comments Wendy wrote: "It is my dire misfortune to inform you that I did attempt to follow said link, but it was lunk because my computer refused to go there, naughty thing. Most exceptionally disagreeable."

I deeply regret the former undependable link and hope this CNN link will get you to the opinion article. Sorry.

Here is a NEW link for :

Why Isn't There A Straight Pride Month?

by LZ Granderson, CNN Contributer

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/opinion...


message 4235: by Averin (new)

Averin | 1962 comments Nursing a grievance as the departure of the Founder, the abdication of the Moderatix has left rippling Eye Candy and the redoubtable Technician at the helm. In appreciation of their labors a lame limerick:

There’s Tech Preston (sorry no Ribbles)
And Eye Candy Boyd of the ripples
Who stepped up to reign
in those who Complain
As from afar members ponder and nibble


message 4236: by Goesta (new)

Goesta While I grudgingly laud Averin's artful effort, I gripingly miss the implicit rhyme that ought by rights to have followed. Whence them nibbled nipples, I snippishly quibble.


message 4237: by Boyd, Hunk of hunky burning passion (new)

Boyd (boydwalker) | 2304 comments Expect breaking news, I don't think you are going to like it. But if you get too upset you can always lean on my shoulder and I offer free hugs to all members.

Hugs and hearts, Boyd


message 4238: by Preston, Moderator (new)

Preston | 20148 comments
I am loathe to report the distressing fact that I am your moderator. Please do not welcome or congratulate me since I find that very annoying. Unless you have a valid reason you require the moderator on official Complaint Department Business please do not contact me in postings (comments) or in messages.

I regret my loquaciousness in this comment. I will do my best not to be so familiar in the future.



message 4239: by Goesta (new)

Goesta Also, I feel depressingly weighed down by new knowledge, having perused Wendy's multiple worlds as disseminated by our efficient Boyd-not-so-toyish-anymore, among other things I now finally understand the meaning of sock puppets in this context, which apparently refers neither to little dictators controlled by major world powers nor to ad-hoc sanitary playing aids for assuaging other little dictators, but rather to multiple online accounts used for nefarious purposes.

Which makes me wonder, in darker moments of lessened sanity, whether I am in fact playing all alone with myselves here. What is real, and what, a warped mirror, mere altered egos of my own feverish imaginings??? Arrrghh.

But no, I couldn't possibly come up by my lonesome with anything as fabulously, reassuringly irritating as the motley members of the complaint dep't. I am not dreaming you. Am I? Are you, me?



...just bored, prob'ly. Mental nose-picking. Yeah. Any minute I'll wake up and be a butterfly again, dreaming of a man.


message 4240: by Goesta (new)

Goesta ComplaintDepartment wrote: "

I am loathe to report the distressing fact that I am your moderator. Please do not welcome or congratulate me since I find that very annoying. Unless you have a valid reason you require th..."


Aha! The invasion of the sock-puppets has penetrated our eden. I knew there was something in the air/water/sewers/electrical cables. Run!


message 4241: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments Boyd wrote: "Expect breaking news, I don't think you are going to like it. But if you get too upset you can always lean on my shoulder and I offer free hugs to all members.

Hugs and hearts, Boyd"


I must say complain, you have me a-quiver over this statement ...

And who is the fella in the Derby? Our new moderator? I think Goesta is correct in his assessment ... hmmm


message 4242: by Preston, Moderator (last edited Jun 14, 2013 12:32PM) (new)

Preston | 20148 comments


The Complaint Department Rules have be modified slightly. Read the rules on the homepage under Rules. They are reproduced below as well.

1. All posting of comments in the thread Post Complaints Here must be in the form of a complaint.

2. No profanity is allowed.

3. No member may complain about a another member including the Moderator.

4. No photos may be posted that showing unclothed or scantily clad men exposed below the belly button.

5. Intolerance is forbidden especially towards people with disabilities, racial groups, women, LGBTQ people and people of all or no sexual orientation




message 4243: by Wendy (new)

Wendy Boyd wrote: "Wendy wrote: "It is my dire misfortune to inform you that I did attempt to follow said link, but it was lunk because my computer refused to go there, naughty thing. Most exceptionally disagreeable...."

My most insincere thanks, Boyd, my darling handsome little apple muffin. I have not followed the link nor read the article. Neither have I written a post on my blog.

Your NGFY with love and affection, Wendy (aka Windy)


message 4244: by Preston, Moderator (new)

Preston | 20148 comments No complaints? Bummer.


message 4245: by Wendy (new)

Wendy ComplaintDepartment wrote: "No complaints? Bummer."

Okay. I would like to strenuously express my grievance (pounds fist on desk) that there are not more gluten-free foods available. And the dastardly fact that both of my parents are carriers of Celiac's.


message 4246: by Lori S. (new)

Lori S. (fuzzipueo) | 2809 comments ComplaintDepartment wrote: "No complaints? Bummer."

Well, I could complain about the state of economy, but I think everyone's had enough of that. How 'bout: it's extremely quiet today and I miss the virtual noise everyone is so good bad at! Where is everyone?


message 4247: by Goesta (new)

Goesta Wendy wrote: "ComplaintDepartment wrote: "No complaints? Bummer."

Okay. I would like to strenuously express my grievance (pounds fist on desk) that there are not more gluten-free foods available. And the dastar..."


I add my whiny voice to the chorus of "yucks" over various companies' attempts to replicate bread- and cake-like substances sans wheat. I've gone through them all, and am healthily sick of them. While I do not to the best of my knowledge suffer from Celiac's disease, I do have a wheat-intolerance that manifested just before moving back to Germany, the country famed for my beloved German baked goods. No fair, I cry out in unfulfilled despair, munching daily on crumbly, sand-and-cardboard imitations.

Much like, it strikes me, the rather cardboardy imitation moderator who seems to have snuck up on this place. Whom I could not possibly complain about since, to my mind, hesheit (male, according to the barest of 'profiles') doesn't even exist as a tangible being. And whom I shall therefore, like 'cake' from Schär, demonstratively ignore until hesheit deigns to reveal more about hisherits ingredients and recipe.

The economy is a right bummer, and the weather's muggy and thick.


message 4248: by Preston, Moderator (new)

Preston | 20148 comments Lori wrote: "I miss the virtual noise everyone is so good bad at! Where is everyone? "

Frustratingly good question from a woman we can all admire for her wondrous weaving of good humor with good thinking. And I most strongly put and emphasis on admire.


message 4249: by Preston, Moderator (new)

Preston | 20148 comments Goesta wrote: "...I cry out in unfulfilled despair..."

Good-heavens grievous gracious Goesta, From your writing I hear you crying out with the 'ultimate satisfaction of unfulfilled despair'. I'm so happily bewildered that you thrive on it!


message 4250: by [deleted user] (new)

I have to complain that I am at the end of a long week of work and I have written nada, niente, nothing, zero, zip, all I have done is make money, but I've probably spent more than I made, and I must needs drop my head to the desk in despair. Can think of nothing, not a poem or a shortie or the next chapter in stalled novel. All my creative energy has gone to that damn job. And then phone call from my boss while I was on the way home, she needs to talk to me, then got called away and said she will call me Monday. What have I done wrong now? Have all weekend to think about it. Need to run away and write full time. The creative life demands time, attention, concentration. As that facebook woman says, we need to LEAN IN. Maybe by Monday I'll have talked myself into running away- but where? Phuket? Albuquerque?
Finally, I need to compain there is a fly in my cup of tea. He gave up his life for tea and I don't even care.


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