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Running an ad on Goodreads
I use them, I've had decent success. Change the blurb every couple of weeks, Keep the click cost at .25 and $50 should last you two months.
I tired them for about a year and didn't see much, if any, impact on sales. I varied the text and images, and did a few other things so I could attempt to analyze the results statistically.My books were not in a hot genre, however, so your results may be quite different.
I also had very little luck with this - my impression is that Facebook works a bit better. That said, my books don't fit into a popular genre either and I think that does make a difference.
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll invest $50 and try Jack's .25 per click idea. I'll post back here how it goes. Give me a couple days for my author page to come through. And I need to decide whether to point the ad to the Goodreads book page or my own www.bullseyebreach.com website. - Greg
Greg wrote: "Thanks for the advice! I think I'll invest $50 and try Jack's .25 per click idea. I'll post back here how it goes..."Do consider whether you are willing to take a loss for the potential exposure. If you have just 1 book, and it sells for $2.99 (for example), you make ~$2 per sale. So you need to sell 1 book for every 8 clicks to break even. That's quite optimistic. (Non-targeted marketing traditionally convert at 1:1,000 or worse. Good targeted marketing does much better, but I've personally never heard of 1:10.)
But the exposure can be worth something, even if it does not result in immediate sales. That's hard to quantify. If $50 is comfortable to you, it's certainly a good idea to go ahead and see what the result is.
I was thinking about numbers like that. But right this minute, the exposure is about zero. IT security is finally a hot topic, but nobody will see the book unless they know it's there. And because I have no exposure, I have to twist people's arms to even look at the book website. So the exposure will definitely be helpful. What was that rule about how many times somebody needs to see your message before they acknowledge you exist? I thank you for making me think this through. $50 at .25 per click is 200 clicks. I can point them to a Goodreads page, but it feels better to point them to a page on the book website where they can explore all kinds of stuff. That gets the most out of those 200 clicks. And I can look at Google Analytics to see where people go from the page I set up - do they drop off the face of the earth or do they go on and look at other pages?
Does that reasoning make sense?
- Greg
Greg wrote: "I was thinking about numbers like that. But right this minute, the exposure is about zero. IT security is finally a hot topic, but nobody will see the book unless they know it's there..."That does make sense (IMHO). If you have a page that will engage readers, that sounds like it could be more valuable in the long run. But in that vase, I might start below $0.25 and see what sort of traffic you get. You can always raise (I assume).
I would guess most people might expect to go to an Amazon page when they click? If so, I can't say if that's an issue. (I'm afraid I've never clicked on a GR ad, myself.)
I never understood how Goodreads ads worked and I still don't. So you put down however much money you want to run the ad for and every time someone clicks they are paying off your purchase for the ad? I'm sure I have it wrong but it makes sense in my head at the moment lol.
Hey all,It's an interesting discussion here.
Owen, what are the statistics that you know for targeted marketing?
I've noticed on the sites that have views counters that only very low per cent of visitors would be interested in the book, I offer, even for reviewing purposes. As an indie, i don't have many options to consult with anyone, so if any of you, guys, can take a look and say maybe something's wrong that I'm missing in the cover, blurb, topic or bio:
Mortal Showdown.Thanks is advance, Nik
Nik wrote: "Owen, what are the statistics that you know for targeted marketing?"Nik, I'm afraid I can't give you anything modern. The last time I was heavily involved in Internet marketing was 2007-2008, and back then, targeted marketing in the sense of the detailed individual profiling was not as mature as it is now, and myself and clients never used anything like it. (I'm not a fan of it in any case.)
For us "targeted marketing" meant getting links on appropriate websites, based on their content and traffic stats, and getting high placement in search engines for relevant keywords. It those cases, converting traffic at about 1:500 was good; 1:300 was very good. Occasionally, traffic might convert about 1:200, and I never saw better than 1:100 except for brief special periods for a very popular product. (This was for products priced anywhere between many $10 and $100.)
On the other end, I saw "broad" marketing approaches that would bring in enormous numbers of clicks: 75,000 in two days in one case, and not yield a single sale. It wasn't that uncommon back then (and earlier) to see 10,000-15,000 clicks from a site and get nothing out of it. (Such sites are now longer around, I suspect.)
With most indie ebooks being $1-$5, that would seem like a whole different ball game. All I can suggest is take a look at sites that promote books via mailing list: some publish rough stats by genre for sales, and the size of their subscriber list. (Bookbub does.) That will give some idea, but it's a wide range, in each case.
Hi Owen,Thanks a lot - helpful, as always!
Well, here's an ad landing page. Whaddya think? Does it grab you?http://www.bullseyebreach.com/do-rece...
- Greg
Hello Greg,You'd probably break into our computers, if I say 'no' -:)
But truly, it does sound engaging for those bothered by data breach headlines.
Some details and idioms sound a bit excessive or maybe I just don't know them like 'how for how' or 'a fiction international thriller' the word 'fiction' is just superfluous to my taste or mentioning that many US cities..
For me it looks a bit overpriced for 215 pages long thriller, but who am I to judge - just a fellow author and of a worstseller no less. I just compare with John Grisham books for example priced at the same level or lower.
Anyway, good luck, and please, let us know how it goes
Hey Nik, thanks! "how for how" - I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. I just changed the wording in that sentence. I also took out the long list of cities. I kept the word, fiction, because the "Bullseye Breach" dates line up almost exactly with the dates on a massive real-world breach from late 2013 and I need to emphasize this book is a fiction story. Does it look sharper now?I don't break into computers. Well, almost never. I'm one of the good guys.
BTW, none of us are on anyone's worst seller list. I don't know about you, but last time I checked, I was in the top 1.9 million on the Amazon best seller list.
- Greg
Hi Greg,In the ad landing page, you use "If you" to start out three of the paragraphs (two of which are right on top of each other) as well as within the paragraphs. If you just play with the wording a bit, I'm sure you can smooth out the repetition.
I would agree that $9.99 is pricey for that length of an ebook, and yet the story looks interesting. So you'll likely attract readers through the clickable Goodreads and Facebook ads and then lose them at the moment where that investment would be recouped, kind of doubly shooting yourself in the foot.
Also, the "anatomy" part in the title makes me think that you're going to break down a real-life IT security breach incident and explain how it all happened. Combined with the "ripped from recent headlines" comment and the promise of teaching us how to protect ourselves from such an attack, it would be difficult for a casual reader to recognize that this is fiction. The Amazon description could make this point clearer (the word 'fiction' never appears, even though it does show up on your website).
Hope this helps! I'm waiting to hear how the ad campaign goes for you.
I played with the wording - should be better now. Thanks for the feedback. I kept two of the "if you..." sentences right in a row because the repetition works there. Here's the challenge with breaking down real-life IT security breach incidents - nobody talks about them. Try to find details about Target or Home Depot or OPM or any of the others. Nobody fesses up about what really happened, probably because they're all too embarrassed. That's why I used fiction and made up my own realistic scenario and its consequences. And tried to make it clear with everything I control that this is a fiction story.
I'm not sure I have any ability to change the Amazon description at this stage but let me see what I can do.
- Greg
I'm glad to help, if I did.Hope the improved version will bring you lots of sales, as the topic seems hot...
Don't know whether you've been to Saint Petersburg. Very nice city, but many corpses probably lay at the bottom of the Gulf of Finland indeed
If anyone would want to criticize the outlay of my book above, I'd be more than happy
I've been to Uzhgorod, Kiev, Stovipagy and a few other places in Ukraine. My daughter and I met a Ukranian Oligarch in Uzhgorod back in 2001. He made his fortune selling water from the Carpathian Mountains. One smooth-talking dude.I just bought the Goodreads ad. I decided to spend $75 with a max of $10 per day at .20 per click. Goodreads has to approve it and the email it generated said the approval will take one-two days.
- Greg
Wow - Uzhgorod?! Why would someone from US travel to that usually backwater place: love, roots, hidden treasure of ousted Hungarian nobility?-:)Good luck with the ads!
Now that I know that every click is worth money, I'll try not to click accidentally, unless I intend to purchase
I've gotten much better results just running giveaways. The ads I purchased brought in next to nothing, while I get hundreds of people adding my books (and if not adding, at least seeing them) each time I do a giveaway. I'm not saying that's so sure for everyone, but it's my experience.
Hi Greg,I like the ad. It definitely is attention grabbing! Your book sounds quite interesting. Good luck with the ad, I hope it brings a lot of sales.
I agree with Thomas, $9.98 does seem pricey for an ebook. However, the timing is perfect considering all the data breaches that are occurring way too frequently. So that may work in your favor. If not, there's always a temp price reduction via Kindle Countdown Deal.
BTW, meeting a Ukranian Oligarch sounds fascinating! My non-fiction book happens to be about meeting a Russian KGB defector.
Thanks K. Your writeup on your story about the Russian KGB defector makes me want to grab a copy. I read the comments about $9.98 being pricey for an eBook. That must put the $18.95 list price for the physical book in the stratosphere. But I've paid $10 for eBooks. My argument is, if we don't value our own hard work, why should anyone else?
When I buy a $10 eBook, I think about whether I really want it or not, and then I make sure to read it after buying it. But a $2.99 eBook? I'll buy it on an impulse and then sometimes forget I even have it.
You'll like this quick story I heard ten years ago.
We were on a church mission trip to Stovpiagy, Ukraine in August, 2005. It was our last day and we were getting ready to head back to Kiev and the airport and home. Tima was one of our interpreters and we all bonded during this trip. Tima's father was a Christian pastor during Soviet times, when Christianity was illegal.
A former KBB agent visited Tima's father's church. The former agent met Tima's dad and asked about a young pastor he'd met in that same church 15 years earlier - so that would have been around 1990. He wanted to meet that pastor and apologize for hauling him off to jail and beating him.
Tima's dad said he'd been the pastor at that church for the past 20 years. The former agent said, "This is not possible - I hauled off a young pastor." Tima's dad said, "I was a young pastor 15 years ago. You hauled me off to jail and beat me."
The former KGB agent apologized and asked for forgiveness. Tima's dad forgave him and they sat down together and had tea. That former KGB agent, representing everything wrong with the Soviet government, became a Christian believer that day.
I tear up every time I think about that story.
- Greg
Thanks Greg, glad you liked the write-up for my book. I recently updated it so I appreciate the feedback. I have two other authors to credit for their helpful tips with my new write-up—Brynne Asher and Owen R. O’Neill. So thanks guys. Off topic here but it seemed appropriate to recognize their efforts.You make a valid point about writers valuing their own work. We are all passionate about our work and put forth a great effort. Writing is no easy task. I believe that valuing our work has nothing to do with price setting though. Many factors come into play with pricing: length of book, first-time-author, genre, popular subject, intended audience. For me, reaching a wider audience was the key factor in pricing.
Thank you so much for sharing the story about your trip to Stovpiagy, Ukraine. I absolutely loved reading it! Brings tears to my eyes too.
Maybe I didn't do it right, but I don't see where it really did anything. My only saving grace is the fact that I get all of the money I pledged back, since I got a grand total of ONE click in the month the ad's been running.Then again, none of my promotion efforts appear to be working all that well. My book's only been out a month, so I guess patience is the order of the day, but... patience has never been my strength.
I've had my ads running a while. Pointed towards Goodreads page (as has most book links as they're available a few places). Recently started getting more clicks, but no affect on sales yet :-/ Worth a go though.
And yes, changing the wording then gets it re-edited which then starts boosting its profile again.
J.D. wrote: "Maybe I didn't do it right, but I don't see where it really did anything. My only saving grace is the fact that I get all of the money I pledged back, since I got a grand total of ONE click in the ..."I'm two years in and still not got good sales. :-( It's all about the long term. xx
Well my ad approval came in yesterday morning. And Goodreads sends me reports every day about how many clicks. Zero clicks yesterday. But maybe nobody saw the ad. Let's see what the report tomorrow morning says. I might have to pay a little more for clicks. We're going to find out one way or the other whether data breaches are the hot topic everyone says they are. - Greg
Not encouraging so far. 3081 views so far, no clicks. I wonder what the average click/view ratio is?First Bullseye Breach ad 944 0
Daily Campaign Total 944 0
Campaign To Date 3081 0
- Greg
I'm learning more about how this works. Going to my ad page, I can see page views and clicks. And when I refresh, the page view count usually goes up by a few. So people are looking at this stuff right now and ignoring it. I just changed the text of the ad to be a little more provocative. And the approval email came in as I was typing this. The text of the ad now says, "Mystified by recent sensational data breach headlines? Here's a new fiction story with a typical scenario and bad guys you'll love to hate."
Let's see if that entices anyone to click on it.
- Greg
Greg wrote: "I'm learning more about how this works. Going to my ad page, I can see page views and clicks. And when I refresh, the page view count usually goes up by a few. So people are looking at this stuf..."Greg,
I haven't advertised on Goodreads, but was tempted for a short time. The $$'s turned me off. I did perform some advertising on Facebook and received, what I felt, was an acceptable response considering the amount of $ that I spent. Try Facebook Ads, but read the details as there are a lot of options.
As for your new ad headline, and please don't take this the wrong way but personally, I don't want to "hate" any characters in any story - "hating" a character depresses me. Don't get me wrong, "bad characters" must exist in stories, but they need to possess some appealing quality. I wouldn't look into a story, knowing that I was going to hate the characters. Maybe others feel the same way.
Best of luck!
Armando
Hmmm - good thought. How about "...typical scenario and interesting characters."
Greg wrote: "I'm learning more about how this works. Going to my ad page, I can see page views and clicks. And when I refresh, the page view count usually goes up by a few. So people are looking at this stuf..."
You can get the same thing for free on Twitter. When I tweet ads I get attention, clicks on my website and any other links I include, but no buyers. In fact, Twitter is the only thing I've found effective so far. But it doesn't sell anything.
You can get the same thing for free on Twitter. When I tweet ads I get attention, clicks on my website and any other links I include, but no buyers. In fact, Twitter is the only thing I've found effective so far. But it doesn't sell anything.
I've tried a few tweets, but with only 12 followers I don't get much attention. I've also replied to some other celebrity tweets and put a few out to hastags like #databreach and some others, but so far, it hasn't returned much meaningful. I'm going to change that "love to hate" sentence.
- Greg
OK - how's this for ad text:"Mystified by recent sensational data breach headlines? Here's a new fiction story with a realistic scenario and characters you'll remember."
I don't like the wording 'fiction story', as it just looks wrong. Wouldn't fictional be better than fiction in this case? Realistic scenario sound better than typical scenario, which makes your book sound as if the plot won't stand out from other similar books.
Thanks. I have two characters left so I can change "fiction" to "fictional." You're right - that does read better. I should do a giveaway to everyone who helps me with this ad. The least I can do for people's time and trouble. Tell ya what - for anyone who's given me feedback on this ad experiment - if you want an electronic copy of "Bullseye Breach," just contact me privately with a way to get you a copy and I'll make it happen. If you read it and like it, please consider doing a review.
- Greg
Hey Armando,Re FB ads - do you need to have a FB profile to do the ads or can I promote amazon link to the book?
What's your experience: expenses v. Views v. Sales?
Thanks,
Nik
Hi Isabel,Can I have your kind advice re my blurb and outlay in general?-:)
Your comments re Greg's ads look precise and pretty tuned with my perception.
Hi Isabel,Can I have your kind advice re my blurb and outlay in general?-:)
Your comments re Greg's ads look precise and pretty tuned with my perception.
I thought I had two characters left in the ad. How's this?"Mystified by recent sensational data breach headlines? Try a new fictional story with a realistic scenario and characters you'll remember."
RE: Armando - I should modify my sentence where I said people are looking at this stuff to say the ad is in front of people. Who knows if anyone looks at it or not. You're right - as long as I'm committing money to an ad, I should look into a Facebook ad. I have a "Bullseye Breach" page on Facebook, may as well advertise it and see where it leads.
More than 3200 views so far on my ad here on Goodreads and not one click. I have a hunch nearly everyone tunes out ads. I do - why should I expect differently from anyone else? I wonder what a typical click rate would be?
- Greg
Greg,But as long as no one clicks, you don't pay anything, right?
If so, it might not be too effective, but you don't lose much on it
Hey Nik - I'm looking at your writeup for "Mortal Showdown." This needs work.Among his numerous adversaries is one of Russia’s most influential strongmen, which renders slim, Misha's chances of survival. From rich and powerful, Mikhail very quickly turns battered and fugitive.
Misha is an informal name for Mikhail. Making this register might be a stretch for English only readers. Even though you said it in the blurb, it still took me a minute to register it.
How about:
Among his numerous adversaries is Vladimir Putin, one of Russia’s most influential strongmen, and Vladimir and his cronies want Mikhail dead. Or worse. Once rich and powerful, Mikhail quickly becomes a fugitive. Now on the run and armed with only his wits and a handful of loyal associates, he searches for a way to overcome his adversaries and help save the country he loves from the Russian bear’s grasp.
> But as long as no one clicks, you don't pay anything, right?> If so, it might not be too effective, but you don't lose
> much on it
The money I committed will just last a long time I guess. I don't think Goodreads will give any of it back. Let's give it a few days with this new wording and see if it attracts any attention.
Thanks a lot for your input, Greg.I thought that much too at some point that Mikhail and Misha may be confusing, so I've changed to Michael to make it easier. For some reason you seem to be referred to an older version.
I can't mention Putin as the book is not about him, but your suggestion for further wording does sound better, so I'll think how to best implement it.
Thanks!
I just used Putin's name cuz it's famous - I figured your Russian strongman would have a different name. Mikhail works for your main character's name - maybe even better than Michael - just keep it consistent.- Greg
Hi Nik - I'm happy to have a look at your book descriptions. At first glance, I don't like this sentence in the Mortal Showdown description.
"From rich and powerful, Mikhail very quickly turns battered and fugitive."
Maybe something like "Formerly rich and powerful, Mikhail soon finds himself a battered fugitive."
My iPad is nearly out of charge, so I'll have another look later.
Greg, got you. ThanksIsabel, thanks. If you have further comments once your iPad is recharged, pls let me know
The classics for Russian names are: Vassily, Boris, Vladimir, Arkady, Vitaly, Vadim, Dmitry, Ivan, Konstantin, Leonid, Maxim, Nikita, Pavil, Timur, and the ever stylish Yuri, if you needed more names.
I'm kind of slow sometimes and I just now figured out I can set up a Goodreads author page. So I put the request in this morning. And then I noticed I can set up a Goodreads pay for click ad. Has anyone else tried this? Any feedback on results? If you ran an ad, did you point the ad back to the Goodreads book page or to your own book website page?
thanks
- Greg Scott