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John, I am not that far behind you in age and I just started this incredible journey.For me, I was pushing my youngest son to post his electronic music on U-tube to obtain some real feedback from people who didn't know him and he challenged me to do the same. I have been playing around with this writing thing for about twenty years.
So I did. My lady was very supportive and yes I travel as well, sometimes to very remote places, with horror of horrors, no internet or cell phone coverage.
Luckily my laptop has a very good battery and charges up rapidly.
I am an early riser and that is the time I take to write and edit. Also during 'down' times, when others are off doing what they do.
I have a story to tell. If I make a few bucks, that would be nice, but it is more important to me that someone reads what I have written and enjoys it and maybe, sees the message that is hidden in the words.
I have read more than a few novels similar to the one you are developing and yes, I think you should go for it.
But that's just me.
Between juggling a tiny demon, writing, editing, and everything else as needs doing, I'm not certain there's time for discussions.But good luck with the site as it sounds like a good idea.
John wrote: "R.P. wrote: "John, I am not that far behind you in age and I just started this incredible journey.For me, I was pushing my youngest son to post his electronic music on U-tube to obtain some real ..."
John, I agree with your comment. You described exactly the way stories come to me (in my sleep, showers and on cruise ships). I also have those brain dumps like you do. But trying to get people to rate and review a story is worse than anything I have encountered. I recently gave away for free Kindle versions of my first novel and it was downloaded more than 600 times. Out of that giveaway, only ten people bothered to give a few minutes of their time to rate and review it. The ones who did gave it wonderful scores and reviews.
My next book is with the editor now and a third one is well under development. Like you, I love to write but the marketing is awful. I don't think I'll be giving the next ones away as I get no benefit in return it seems.
J. wrote: " I recently gave away for free Kindle versions of my first novel and it was downloaded more than 600 times. Out of that giveaway, only ten people bothered to give a few minutes of their time to rate and review it. The ones who did gave it wonderful scores and reviews.My next book is with the editor now and a third one is well under development. Like you, I love to write but the marketing is awful. I don't think I'll be giving the next ones away as I get no benefit in return it seems. "
Part of the problem with uncontrollable giveaways is "Free" has been overused.
If part of your marketing / promotion is a giveaway, set up a date and time for an interactive chat where X number of participants are entered for a free copy. Odds are those people will appreciate your effort more than if they could get the work both anonymously and free.
As for rates and reviews, you can always put a line (similar to the following) in your "About The Author": If you liked this book, have the time, and don't mind helping other readers, please rate and review at your site of choice.
R.F.G. wrote: "J. wrote: " I recently gave away for free Kindle versions of my first novel and it was downloaded more than 600 times. Out of that giveaway, only ten people bothered to give a few minutes of their ..."Thanks. Interesting ideas. I'm just baffled by people who have the time to read a 416 page novel but don't have the time to push a rating button and leave a few words in a review to help others (and the author).
J. wrote: "Thanks. Interesting ideas. I'm just baffled by people who have the time to read a 416 page novel but don't have the time to push a rating button and leave a few words in a review to help others (and the author)."J.,
I'm an old phart -- one thing I learned over the decades is most people don't appreciate what they get for free.
When someone has to put some effort into obtaining something, whether interaction or actual money, then they tend to appreciate what they've 'earned'.
Give a teenage kid a car, and watch it get trashed. Sell a teenage kid a car, and watch it get taken care of.
It's about the value people attach to what they have and how they got it.
Most literary marketing gurus agree that a multiple approach achieves the best results.Website - Professionally designed and maintained. Focused upon a specific work and its author. Include a blurb, author's bio., event schedule, and secure communication page.
Personal Appearances - Networking opportunities at public libraries, book stores, book clubs, literary festivals and conventions. Be well prepared to deliver a polished presentation with book-signing pen in hand.
Promotional Items - Push cards, business cards, book marks, and thank-you cards; professionally designed and focused upon a specific work and its author. Include a website address and contact information.
Multiple Formats - Readers' tastes vary. Consider multiple formats to meet various tastes: traditional print, e-Book, audio on CD, and audio download.
Blog - Well prepared, interesting, and consistently maintained.
Active Participation in Literary Sites - Participate in discussion threads, not just those dedicated to self-promotion. Allow members to get to know you as a fellow reader and a person, not just an author.
R.F.G. wrote: "J. wrote: "Thanks. Interesting ideas. I'm just baffled by people who have the time to read a 416 page novel but don't have the time to push a rating button and leave a few words in a review to help..."I agree with your views. Unfortunately, thousands of authors are giving away their books so readers who are willing to pay just a dollar don't need to. Good time to be a reader; terrible time to be a writer. I'll continue to write because I enjoy it but my readers may be friends and family only.
I don't have the time to dedicate 40 hrs a week to do what Jim suggests as I'm a business contracts consultant and that absorbs all my non-writing time.
J. wrote: "I agree with your views. Unfortunately, thousands of authors are giving away their books so readers who are willing to pay just a dollar don't need to. Good time to be a reader; terrible time to be a writer. I'll continue to write because I enjoy it but my readers may be friends and family only.I don't have the time to dedicate 40 hrs a week to do what Jim suggests as I'm a business contracts consultant and that absorbs all my non-writing time. "
Well, Jim is retired, and most writers have day jobs to keep up with unless they're wealthy.
My case, a soon to be 20-month-old demon princess absorbs the vast majority of my time, along with laundry, cooking, other chores, and soon packing to move. I'm lucky to get an hour or two a day to write, edit, contact tech support to take care of issues with broken links on GR, or my own version of customer service.
The upside is I'm slowly building a catalog of work. If I don't live to see the writing payoff, my kid(s) should.
More strangers than friends or family have read my work, from divers backgrounds and countries. I would posit you have time to build a catalog of your own, and out-wait the free gimmick.
R.F.G. wrote: "J. wrote: "I agree with your views. Unfortunately, thousands of authors are giving away their books so readers who are willing to pay just a dollar don't need to. Good time to be a reader; terrible..."Understand. I've retired twice by the way. Just don't have the mentality to not work in the business world. Writing is my leisure activity rather than golf or fishing or whatever others do.
J. wrote: "Understand. I've retired twice by the way. Just don't have the mentality to not work in the business world. Writing is my leisure activity rather than golf or fishing or whatever others do. "What's leisure activity? Foreign concept.
J. wrote: "R.F.G. wrote: "J. wrote: "Thanks. Interesting ideas. I'm just baffled by people who have the time to read a 416 page novel but don't have the time to push a rating button and leave a few words in a..."if it's good enough, they'll have the time
Vlad wrote: "J. wrote: "R.F.G. wrote: "J. wrote: "Thanks. Interesting ideas. I'm just baffled by people who have the time to read a 416 page novel but don't have the time to push a rating button and leave a few..."Vlad, your response would suggest that only great books get rated and reviewed. This site and most others demonstrate that is not true. I see many books with one and two stars and ugly reviews. Maybe I misunderstand your comment.
Hmm..this sounds very interesting. I am currently in the process of revising and going over my latest novel but when I get it up on Amazon I'll definitely check this out. Thanks for sharing Erich!
no J, you're correct.I may have misspoke, and for that I am truly sorry, but I consider that authors these days get too tangled up in marketing their books instead of letting their work speak for itself.
Still, I want to be constructive, so I'd like to offer another answer if I may.
I find it really hard to get someone's review or rating unless it really touched them emotionally in some way or another (in which case it's not needed to seek for their reviews and ratings, just try and stand in their way of giving feedback). On the other hand, mediocre and truly average works get rated 5 stars by their authors and friends of friends, with embellishing words made in exchange of offers and promotions of some sorts. And when you pick that book based on its rating or reviews and start reading, you as a reader get disappointed. Now I personally always rate that down. But I never finish reading novels which I think of as 1 star. Do you ?
Now I don't know if that ever happened to any of you, but my money is on the fact that it did.
That's why we, as authors, shouldn't care what our readers think.
What's your take on this matter. How much do you care about that 5 star feedback and review on your own works ?
Vlad,I agree. All of us want approval of one form or another. Reviews from friends and relatives are based on love, not necessarily on the quality of your writings. I discount all of those.
For me, I read the first chapter of a book and if I'm not immediately hooked, I don't bother with it. I'm sure others do that as well. That may explain a good percentage of the no-scores/no reviews but not 95%. I personally think people download the free book and never ever open it. It becomes a part of their library that may be read someday, but probably not.
Hi Vlad. I must admit that it makes me feel good about my work when I get a Five Star review. I do ask friends that buy my books to post a review (few do), but I also ask that they be honest.Also, I think reviews might help a little, however I've seen little indication that reviews generate sales.
For us Indie writers, without a publicity or marketing agent, I really think it's more word of mouth that gets other readers to buy.
I think everyone wants and would love 5 star ratings and reviews across the board but it's not realistic. Getting reviews when offering your book for free isn't easy either as I have found out over the last few weeks. However, if the ones who were kind enough to finish the book and left a review I am grateful and only hope that others will enjoy the books. You don't ever want to force someone to read or book or force the to review, the best thing is to offer a free copy and if they take you up on it just kindly state you are looking for reviews and whether or not they enjoy it you thank them for taking the time to read it.
J, that's so true. I personally know a lot of people that get really enthused when getting stuff (not just for free, they purchase them too) and the minute they own it, they enjoy it for 10-20 minutes and forget all about it.Maybe you can't account for all those 95 percentiles, but how about that new system from Amazon where readers get to lend your book and you get remunerated for every page turn. That sounds really funky. Maybe give it a try and tell us how it went. I for one am very curious.
Hi Doug.
Of course, we all get a little cozy and warm when we see we're being 5 starred. Anyway, it's good to ask for honesty. That's what shapes us, if we know how to filter it, right ?
Definitely, for Indie writers it's word of mouth. The way I see it, publishers have readers on a payroll to find talent, right? So let them find us :) Meanwhile, as J and others mentioned above, the best way to generate sales is to market ourselves the best we can (using more than one channel as Jim aptly pointed out above) but I think it boils down to three ingredients: luck, cashing in favors (I rate you, you rate me, but let's both be honest) and making yourself available (both financially - which sometimes means dropping the price tag altogether - but also physically - how many of us drop leaflets, posters and donate paperbacks to libraries in our area?) where you're most wanted.
aaaa, what do I know ? :))
J. wrote: "Vlad, your response would suggest that only great books get rated and reviewed. This site and most others demonstrate that is not true. I see many books with one and two stars and ugly reviews. Maybe I misunderstand your comment..."I think what Vlad is saying is that a book must give a reader an emotional response to write a review, either joy or disappointment.
I don't write reviews on books that are 'meh', but I write a review if I think others should read the book, or if I want to warn others not to waste their time like I did. I have 4/5 star reviews, and 1/2 star reviews, but not 3 star reviews. To me, 3 stars is 'forgettable, but not badly written'.
EDIT: I didn't read Vlad's response before I posted this.
@Martyn that's exactly right ! Spot on ! That's what I meant.Interesting approach to the 5 star rating system.
My views on the matter are expressed with this nice drawing that I made for you :)
I do all the things that Jim mentioned above and some. I go to Book Festivals, give public talks, write a weekly blog that is linked to Goodreads, my Amazon Author Page, Linked In, Facebook etc, I maintain a website, give-away bookmarks and market like hell and still only sell a few hundred books - mostly ebooks.I write because I love it, and age has nothing to do with it, John. If you want to write, write. I'm mid-sixties and plan to write for decades to come.
I write something everyday whenever I can but family come first, and my significant other half and I love to travel.
I cover my costs and believe one day I will write the book that is good enough that everyone who reads it will love it, rate it, review it and my golden bit of sunshine will arrive. But until then I keep improving my craft, learning to write better, stronger and more emotively and am happy my love of writing doesn't break the bank.
I write in different genres, different eras, and different voices. I have four books to my name from a biographical narrative (Daniel), a children's picture book (Kazam!), a contemporary woman's novel about a widow's journey (The Cornish Knot) and novel written by two characters both in the first person as they solve the riddle of their past (The Art of Secrets). All under the brand The PastFinders books.
My current work-in-progress is about Irish immigration to Australia and New Zealand. For the first time, it is being written in sections taking a different character's POV. It'll come together eventually, but I'm waiting until I see what each character does first.
I just love the journey these characters take me on.
Hope you do too.
Vicky Adin.
I mostly don't worry about the ratings / reviews, because I can't make people leave or not leave one. I do make every effort to write in a way that helps readers either bond or empathize with characters (see them as examples of empathetic living beings). That said when someone who has been in the industry gives me a 3-star or 4-star, I appreciate it because it means I did a good job of crossing Is and dotting Ts.
Apart from doing a few signings, attending a convention, giving promo copies to service personnel / orphans / etc, the next thing is having more than one title. The more work you have out or about to be released, the more interest people will take, for the simple reason that no matter how well-written one book by an unknown author is, it could be a one-hit wonder.
Vicky, I admire your attitude. Being part Irish, I have a great interest in Irish history and look forward to your new endeavor. Now I need to get on Amazon and find "The Art of Secrets." That sounds very interesting.
Vicky,Andre Alice Norton wrote in high school, but was being published from 1934 to 2005 (when she died).
I enjoy her work as much now as I did as a kid, and in some ways I appreciate it more.
Keep writing as long as you can write and love what you're doing.
R.F.G. wrote: "I mostly don't worry about the ratings / reviews, because I can't make people leave or not leave one..."I can't make people leave a review, but I have a message at the end of my book intended to encourage readers to leave reviews. And that works pretty good.
I also insert my author email so readers can also approach me in private.
Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang-Froid) wrote: "R.F.G. wrote: "I mostly don't worry about the ratings / reviews, because I can't make people leave or not leave one..."I can't make people leave a review, but I have a message at the end of my bo..."
I have my author email at the front of the book with the copyright / publisher verbiage. Might need to include it at the back as well.
That's one of the perks about writing--there's no retirement age. As long as your work is selling, people don't care how old you are. I remember the romance writer Charlotte Lamb wrote well into her eighties until she died. I absolutely love to write, it's such a high. And although I'm a long, long way from retirement :), I plan to be writing until I take my last breath or the end of the world, whichever comes first.I'm so happy to say that I have a fan base, and that gives me the extra joy of writing. Others enjoy what you write--what more can you ask for? And even if I wasn't selling, I would continue to write.
I just created a website (Availabook.com) that allows readers to discuss as they read. Readers enter the page or kindle location they're at and they can join in and see discussions up to that point. It's like one huge ongoing book club for your book, and it's a lot of fun.
For authors, you can now invite your readers to discuss your book. To make inviting easier, you can provide an easy-to-type shortened url (great for online & offline marketing) that will bring readers to your book's page.
For example, if your book's url is http://www.availabook.com/book/10/the..., you just grab the 10 (or whatever your book's # is) and append it to avb.im like so avb.im/10 and BAM, they arrive at your book's page ready for them to discuss.
To get your book's url and #, search for your book here. The easiest way to find your book is to enter your book's Amazon asin. Oh yeah...your book must be on Amazon.com.
Authors are encouraged to join or start discussions for their books to increase the reader's excitement and interest to join the conversation.
Questions or comments welcome.