Don Quixote Part I Spoilers

[Lynn, New School Classics]

Just a reminder, Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra is the Revisit the Shelf Read for the months of February and March 2024. We decided to vote on a longer book and spread the reading over two months.

[Cynda]

I plan to start reading about mid-month. My friends are reading books I want to read/reread that I am reading as fast as I can.

[Cynda]

Some books I can find the humor as I read. Sometimes I consider the book, it's historical or literary context, before understanding the humor. Don Quixote is for me a read-consider-find the humor kind of book.

[J_BlueFlower]

I am at 13%

He is a dangerous madman to have walking/riding around. Strange that nobody tries to stop him. Or maybe in the end it turn out that we have the first instance of it-is-all-just-a-dream?

Possibly my favourite part to far
Chapter 14: (view spoiler)[Marcela shows up and starts talking. Expecting a not too brainy bimbo …. Out comes a monologue full of Socrates-like logic. The story did a complete 180 turn. Marcela may be the only sane person so far. (hide spoiler)]

[EvenB]

I’ve just finished Part 1, approximately 43% of my book. I’m enjoying it very much, sometimes laughing out loud, especially with Sancho. He really calls it like he sees it.

I’m guessing that this book was the inspiration for Monty Python, The Princess Bride, and other tales in many ways. There’s nothing like a knight errant, chivalry, and a sidekick squire on a journey to make an entertaining story. All the side stories are fun, once I got the hang of switching between the Don Quixote/Sancho adventures and the other folks’ stories.

I have to take a break for another book, then I’ll be back for Part 2.

[J_BlueFlower]

24%

I had vaguely noted that Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra lived at the same time as Shakespeare. But there is a strong link between them:

" "The History of Cardenio" is a lost play, known to have been performed by the King's Men, a London theatre company, in 1613 The play is attributed to William Shakespeare and John Fletcher in a Stationers' Register entry of 1653. The content of the play is not known, but it was likely to have been based on an episode in Miguel de Cervantes's Don Quixote involving the character Cardenio ....

Thomas Shelton's translation of the First Part of Don Quixote was published in 1612 and would thus have been available to the presumed authors of the play. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_His...

I can definite see that side story fit with Shakespeare.

[J_BlueFlower]

28%

This strange game of make-believe is getting very interesting. First it was Sancho Panza, but now other people voluntarily join the game and dress up. The strange and funny is that Sancho Panza, who knows Princess Micomicona is fake, but still – in his head – starts planing what to do when he becomes king.

[Cynda]

For those of you wondering: Where's the Humor!

So much of it is in the physicality. Living in South Texas in the Borderlands, I often watched old black and white movies set in the Old Southwest with with the old Mexican Man actor wearing clothes something like Sancho Panza, using what Shakespearean students and scholars call "clown humor". Yes, that's it. Except here Don Quixote is the one with the different understanding/the clown's understanding.

Also Spaniards--maybe particularly the rural or less educated Spaniards--are not known for being delicate with their language. A spade is spade, why not call it that? . . . . Sancho Panza is a funny name. "Sancho" is often the word used for companionable comforting/fun bedmate. "Panza/Pansa" means 'belly" and is the word used for a person with big belly, a person like Sancho Panza.

The Old Man with some social stature who is supposed to be low-level gentry, someone who sometimes has to serve in public capacities is incapacitated. His fertile and febrile mind is overtaken by imagination and adventure.

Don Quixote the novel is filled with hispanic humor, filled with awkward physicalities and imaginative flights of fancy.

For those who live outside the hispanic worldview, it can be a very big turnabout in understanding.

[Cynda]

I hope to start my reread before March. I am rushing through books as fast I can.

[J_BlueFlower]

32%

I just finished the side quest of Anselmo and Lotario. That was excellent. It is like Cervantes wanted to write more than one book, but just could not be bothered so instead he nested them. Having characters read full novels to each other. Together with Marcela’s monologue those two parts are my favourites so far. Both I would call high-level funny. Not clown humor.

(view spoiler)[The story starts of reasonably enough and soon spirals into the bizarre, and even more bizarre, plans within plans... I was surprised that the husband did not sleep with the unfaithful servant girl – just to complete the pattern. (hide spoiler)]

It seems that this side-novel was made into a movie separately from Don Quixote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cur...

[Cynda]

Secondary works are important particularly when reading literary works from cultures and times less familiar to the reader.

What are others reading/watching/reading that is helping them make sense of some of the novel? A book of this social magnitude is worth reading several or even more times. This is my severalth time. I have been reading Don Quixote since my late 20s, always reading both books for myself. When I was a mom, I read a simplified large-format picture book version of Part 1 to my son several times. We laughed at the stories within the novel over and lver.

I hope tonight to finish reading The Man Who Invented Fiction: How Cervantes Ushered in the Modern World by Professor William Egginton. The professor shares his understanding of Don Quixote to undergraduate students, so accessible. The professor does explain everything his students need to know to get a good, not scholarly, read of the novel.

[Cynda]

Where to find secondary sources that are shorter and more accessible? Here are some suggestions that I can make

* Articles and Posts online. One I particularly like and often forget to check: ThoughtCo.
* YouTube vids. TED-Ed; academic lectures.
* Podcasts with which I am not familiar but which do beckon me when K am looking through Scribd and affiliate sites.
* Essay collections at local library. The Twayne series is academic, but there are other collections that might be available to you. Whether you read one or all articles is a personal decision.
* I so literary love supplementary materials in Barnes and Noble Classic and Oxford and Norton Critical Editions.

[J_BlueFlower]

Do you have any non-spoiler suggestions? Or maybe some sort of commentary to read after each chapter?

I started on Quixote: The Novel and the World and had a spoiler in the introduction and in the beginning of the biography section is a complete summery of the book. I stopped there.

[Cynda]

J_Blueflower try Sparknotes online. Chose "Full Text" option. You read a chapter from DQ then read a chapter from the study guide.

Do not read "Overview" if you want no spoilers at all.

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/donqui...

[Cynda]

about Part 1, Book 1.
The Spanish Empire was on the decline. The Spanish and other Europeans were sending out soldiers to fight battles that were difficult to win and difficult to survive.

Romance writers told of the supposed glories of war--the types of books that concern DQ's family and friends. Yet the two friends--the barber and the curate--find themselves enchanted by some of the same books as DQ is. The romances were written to honor knights and soldiers.

Don Quixote was so crazy as he just got caught up in the emotional power of the romances. . . . .Being a reader myself, I so understand.

[Cynda]

about Part 1, Book 2

Cervantes was writing about the same time as Shakespeare. Like Shakespeare, Cervantes made use of pastoral scenes--scenes that happen in the country that are about the shepherds and sometimes farmers. City life was getting more complicated and dirty/nasty, and disease-prone. During this time and until city managers realized that (infectious) filth contributed to cholera and doctors started believing in germ theory, cities had high death rates, sometimes able only to maintain populations through people moving into cities for jobs and opportunities. . . . So pastoral scenes often pleased writers and readers.

[J_BlueFlower]

Cynda is healing 2024 wrote: "about Part 1, Book 1.
The Spanish Empire was on the decline. "

Are you sure? 1492 was a remarkable year: the last Muslim stronghold in Granada surrendered, and that was the end of the Moorish invasion. After that Spain was able to fight of all invasion attempts. There is a little bit about that in the beginning of part II.

The Spanish Empire was still expanding. According to Wikipedia: “At its greatest extent in the late 1700s and early 1800s, the Spanish Empire covered over 13 million square kilometres (5 million square miles), making it one of the largest empires in history.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish...

[J_BlueFlower]

Cynda is healing 2024 wrote: "
Cervantes was writing about the same time as Shakespeare"

See message 107.

[J_BlueFlower]

Cynda is healing 2024 wrote: and doctors started believing in germ theory

Nope. Nothing like that happened before 1847. The theory was proposed many times before that in Greece and India and in Europe in 1548. But at the time (1606+) it was Galen's theory of bad air/smell that was dominant both among scientists, doctors and common people.

The famous doctors plague masks was in use to 1700+. The nose is filled with herbal material to keep off the smell and thereby the plague.

1656 (about 40-50 years after Don Quixote):


You can read about the history of Germ theory of disease here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_th...

[Cynda]

Exactly. And thanks for the history. History of Thought fascinates me.

[Cynda]

Thanks for reminding me of your post at 107. I did mean to comment. The Royal Shakespeare Society seems to have put together some sort of version of Cardenio. Undoubtedly an organization as well-recognized and esteemed as the RSC has access to remnants of the play others might have difficulty accessing. Someday I will have to buy/gain access to all the recorded plays RSC has made. During the lockdown, they made some of their plays available on YouTube.

https://www.rsc.org.uk/cardenio

If you find out how to view online, will you let me know? I will do the same. I did find the trailer:

https://youtu.be/i8HN9OZP_Uw?si=Mzc26...

[Cynda]

Katy wrote: "I wish newer books would have engravings within the stories."

Katy of Barnes & Noble edition trans by Tobias Smollett contains Doré engravings--quite a few, sometimes several to a chapter.

[J_BlueFlower]

Sancho Panza often talks about himself as “old Christian”. I vaguely assumed it was similar to Dostoevsky’s “old Christians”. It is not.

I just came across a particular juicy one: “four fingers wide old Christian fat layer on the soul” (I am reading in Danish, and it is even better here: “fire fingersbredder gammelkristent fedtlag på sjælen”)

In Spain at the time “old Christian … was a social and law-effective category … to distinguish Portuguese and Spanish people attested as having cleanliness of blood … from the populations categorized as New Christian. 'New Christian' refer to mainly persons of partial or full Jewish or Moorish (Muslim) descent who converted to Christianity, and their descendants. It was believed that many New Christians were practicing their original religion in secret.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Chr...

[Cynda]

Good catch J_BlueFlower. Where oh where am I for not mentioning this? I am working hard at not controlling the conversation, instead trying to follow and expand upon ideas.

[Cynda]

The cultural purity that occupied the Spanish government and society since the effort of the Reconquest began in the 15th century led to the initial explusion in 1492. Yep the year that that Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

This current-to-our-study explusion of the the late 16th century in led to resettlement in New World in part is now northern Mexico, much of Texas, much of Nex Mexico.

For more information, I suggest reading the graphic novel written by the premier hispanic scholar Professor Ilan Stavans-- El Iluminado: A Graphic Novel. Or if you prefer to look over a nonfiction article, https://www.wearecousins.info/2013/04...

[J_BlueFlower]

Cynda is healing 2024 wrote: "I am working hard at not controlling the conversation"

We can Joust about who gets to control ;-)

[Cynda]

The more people who join into the convos, the less likely someone can control as easily. . . .Glad Matt has jumped in.

[Cynda]

Right Matt the chivalric books caused many problems. I know online shopping may not really work for you. What about online reading of an biographical article about Cervantes? By reading one or two you will start to find out how right you are and might gain more confidence in that idea that the book satirizes books of chivalry.

[Cynda]

Part 1 was the intended novel. That is why the movie depictions, the children versions, the graphic novel and all sorts of retellings retell Part 1.

If all you read of Don Quixote is Part 1, hoping to come back months or years later to Part 2, you will have read a complete novel

Why Part 2 came into being I will talk a bit about when I join the Part 2 conversation.

[Lynn, New School Classics]

Matt wrote: "I picked up a copy of Don Quixote today. Will prob be closer to March before I can begin."

I am with you on that Matt. I haven't finished The Moonstone yet, but Don Quixote is next on my list.

[Cynda]

They all seem to be real books. I think my edition speaks of them as real titles. You can google them. . . .Consider this. If the books were not still being read, they would not need to be made fun of because the books held no power over possible soldiers' imaginations.

[Cynda]

I am restarting Part 1 Book Three. So much is here. And I want to.get a good understanding. I do not want to have reread again. This may very well be my last read of Don Quixote--just like I am done with Homer. I have read it. I have got it. I am moving on. I many more books to read.

[Cynda]

Matt glad to.be of service.

One more thing. In the traditional hispanic world, "Don" is a title of respect. The female equivalent is "Doña". The knight errants's title and name is Don Quixote.

[Cynda]

Read Part 1, Book 3.
Although both men are crazy, DQ is the crazier of the two. While at another inn, he again thinks the inn is a castle. When that inn-castle episode, DQ tells SP ow the knight errant experience is supposed to go. Of course, it does not.

[Cynda]

Read Part 1, Book 3.
The prisoners-in-chains incident is better understood after reading a longer or more telling biography of Miguel de Cervantes which includes financial and social descriptions of Miguel de Cervantes' father and himself & which includes Miguel de Cervantes' military experience as war prisoner.

[Jakub]

I will be finishing book 1 tonight, i'm very glad that there is second book to look forward too. I'd miss Don Kichote very, very much.

[Cynda]

Part 1, Book 2, Chapter 6 - 8
The Novel of the Impertinent Curiosity.
Cervantes changed storytelling. Arguably he wrote the first novel or the first fiction as we know it.

This novel-within-a-novel or narrative-within-a-narrative is very different from the romantic-sexual stories from those included in The Decameron. Here in Don Quixote, we see a story set in Florence with same type of characters--husband, wife, and her lover. Instead of reading a simple series of events, here we see the inner concerns, the thinking processes, the decisions, motivations, and maybe more. Cervantes wrote a more complex narrative.

For more discussion: The Man Who Invented Fiction: How Cervantes Ushered in the Modern World by William Egginton where a general concept discussion can be found there.

[Cynda]

Read Part 1. Book Four

The books of knight errantry are so thoroughly denounced by Don Quixote, the soldier, the canon, the curate. . . . The poor knight brought home in cage. . . . But we his admirers know he will ride again ☀️

[Klowey]

I'm starting this late but do want to join in. I am so glad the group chose this book since I've wanted to read it for a long time but feel the need for discussion.

Someone mentioned the Yale course, free on youtube, which I hope to try.
youtube.com
/watch?v=P-D0iXLZWO0

I have the Grossman and the Ormsby translations. What are others using?

[Cynda]

Hi Klowey, I am reading the Skillet translation because the reasonably priced Barnes and Nobles Classics edition uses it. Also the Skillet translation is used for an audio book version included in my Audible Plus plan at no extra cost.

[J_BlueFlower]

I am reading the 2011 translation by Rigmor Kappel Schmidt.

[J_BlueFlower]

I my edition Sancho is donkey-less and 1-2 pages later rides on. No explanation. I was confused. This was likely a mistake by Cervantes, but he uses it well later on in a almost post-modern way.

[Ayush]

I am currently reading Edith Grossman's translation of this novel. I intend to keep a slow but regular pace of reading this book and hopefully I will be able to finish Part 1 before May 2024 ends.