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Old School Classics, Pre-1915
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Don Quixote Part I Spoilers
message 51:
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Desertorum
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Jul 30, 2015 12:34PM
Is there anyway I can see where the part one ends and second starts? Have anyone the chapter number? I´m reading on my kindle and it´s hard to tell…how many parts are there? Just the two?
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Kathy, I'm in the middle of ch 24, part 1.I'm reading kindle version and these chapters are not short!
The percentage counter doesn't seem to move much. I don't feel as if I'm making progress.
Desertorum wrote: "Is there anyway I can see where the part one ends and second starts? Have anyone the chapter number? I´m reading on my kindle and it´s hard to tell…how many parts are there? Just the two?"The second book begins after chapter 51, but it starts off with its very own preamble, so you'll recognize it easily.
On my Kindle, Part 2 starts at 49% read, and the chapter numbers start over too. With my Audible version, it is a straight through 126(!) chapters. This is interesting because the audio is the companion to the book, and so far they match up perfectly.
Susie, I think that the chapter numbers for my kindle edition start from ch 1 at the beginning of the second part as does yours.
I could've sworn I hit part 2 awhile ago and I'm only 45% in.Of course my kindle edition is weird that it claims it's only 401 pages, yet has 15,647 locations. I'm on the chapter previous to XLVI (Of the end of the notable adventure of the officers of the holy brotherhood; and of the great ferocity of our worthy knight, don quixote). Don't ask me what the chapter's # is as I'm too tired to try and figure that out. (Air travel doesn't generally agree with my head.)
I liked the helmet bit as well! I am starting to find the book a bit repetitive at 25% in but as Susie said, something will then grab me and I'll laugh.
Ok thanks! I just got confused because in the end of one chapter it said end of part (maybe) two, or something but then it was just in plot…because I have only read 16 % and thought that is weird. Or then I´m just really messed up with this book :D (travel also doesn´t suit me!)
Desertorum wrote: "Ok thanks! I just got confused because in the end of one chapter it said end of part (maybe) two, or something but then it was just in plot…because I have only read 16 % and thought that is weird. ..."Yes...it did that in my audio version too, so I was confused as to how that related to the threads here...but I finally figured it out!
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Kathy wrote: "My Part 1 has its own Part 1 & Part 2-- then I have the other Part 2 about halfway through the book"Good to know! Sometimes it´s a bit confusing with Kindle.
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Cosmic wrote: "Here is another :http://oyc.yale.edu/spanish-and-portu..."
I can most definitely vouch for this OpenYale course. I read DQ on my own and then converted these lectures to plain audio format and listened to them. They complement the book so well and bring a lot of the events, art, and language into context. Especially for non-spanish speakers, this allows a better appreciation of the book from something as simple as the title!
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What do you think of Sancho Panza?
I've had to stop reading at 25 % because of other reading commitments that involve a 799 p book!What do I think of SP, I think that whenever he speaks with the voice of reason, DQ talks him out of it. I think SP is gullible and doesn't use his own common sense. But if he didnt go along with DQ he wouldn't get to be governor of that island! I guess he's (SP) meant as a foil for DQ.
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In part I (we can talk a bit more about SP in part II and some of his changes) I got the impression that SP was, in a sense, star struck. Nevermind that his 'celebrity' was a self proclaimed noble, knight and and hero, in SP's mind, DQ could do no wrong. Although SP sees something the way it actually is (windmills, sheep, etc) he doesn't trust his own senses since such a wise and noble master such as DQ can't be wrong. You see this kind of mentality when you are in a decision making group with a well known high ranking individual. Many people around the table will smile and nod and agree with that person (because they are always right... right? I mean, that is how they got to that position...) regardless of what their gut tells them. I really makes me wonder how SP would act if a) he knew that SP's self stated title, knighthood, quests and Dulcinea were not only not merited, but downright false.... or b) How much differently he would act with another REAL knight who wasn't as confident and imposing as DQ.
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I finished Don Quixote yesterday.Definitely a five star book. I never read a funnier classic.
I read (or listened to) this translationDon Quijote de la Mancha I. I would like to read the other translation to compare them.
I want to listen to the professor at Yale and then reread Don Quixote.
I would also like to pay more attention to the proverbs or antidotes and adopt some of them to say.
One that has stuck with me is
"When one makes himself honey, the flies consume him."
I moved to the city...started making more money and feel prey to a landlord...."luxury apartment"
Check out my videos I made:
https://m.youtube.com/#/channel/UCxQz...
One thing i have enjoyed studying is the relationships in this story....between the manipulated and the decievers; fear and desire or hope; parent and child (there is a lot of this).
I also remember one son relating in a story about how his father did not want his sons to be bastards....and how that was defined.
The Yale professor said that Don Quixote was read to mim like a children bedtime story. I totally can see how that would work. The chapters are small enough to be read in a short sitting and the tales juvenile and adult depending on your age and understanding.
Kathy wrote: "As you near the middle of the book (hopefully -- we are about halfway through our 3 months reading), does any scene stick out more than others so far? What do you think of Sancho Panza?"
He reminds me of an obedient child.
What obedient child hadn't belived that his parent will give him responfibilies...higher education or a dowry or some other helping hand? Maybe an island? Or a chore around the house? How many parents have undermined their children? "(Out of the mouth of babes...)" He reminded me of a child. This is why i think it could be read to children as a night time story and they would feel understood. Perhaps it would give parents some much needed empathy.
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I was thinking about the story this morning and how it was a little redundant at the beginning. I thought is this whole book going to be about fighting illusions? Then I woke up thinking about how history repeats itself and how this is a satire on history. Eventually that history is written down and people make a lot out of what they perceive of the primary players in the battle...And i thought about our own histories...and eventually you will see great wisdom come out of DQ mouth. SP thinks DQ could be a priest he is so eloquent...and DQ is looking for war or a battle the whole time.
I read The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us and she remarked how pity was one of the traits of a sociopath. And also that most wars are holy wars. Most conquerors are self proclaimed. The victors write the history.
How do you think that DQ tries to make himself into a victim or get people to pity him undeservingly?
Do you see this is a satire on holy wars? What other satires do you see? There is obviously more than just war...and it is fun to reflect on them.
Frankly Cosmic, I had gone into the reading of this with the notion that the reader is supposed to learn something from DQs "madness" and when I finished prt I, couldn't see any lesson in it at all and only see the slapstick humor. I had also felt that deme of the ideas expressed were blasphemous, though couched differently to keep the writer out of trouble!Your comments above are very keen and insightfull. You bring up things that I wouldn't have thought of.
I have noticed that DQ is a very eloquent speaker in stating his "mad" views. I didn't liken DQ to a priest though, because some of the blasphemy that I noticed or ideas that were counter to the church's teachings were spoken by him.
I wish I could go back to these passages, but alas, I am reading this in eFormat. One of the downfalls of eBooks.
I cut up my hardback into two manageable volumes (pics here. I would have bought an ebook to get a lighter edition, but couldn't find the (prize winning) modern danish translation, so paper it is...I found the first 150 pages a bit boring: like a tv-series repeating the same plot cycle in every episode:
(view spoiler)
I was quite disappointed about the lack of detail (and length) of the wind mills tale - figured it must just be as far as most modern readers got into the book? (I do get that it is a suitable metaphor for all the hopeless battle Don Q fights, but still?) Maybe it's just more famous from the art that has accompanied the book?
After that the book certainly picked up! Stories nested in stories, lots of spinning tall tales and outright lying - which makes for a much more interesting read! And also more of a gallery of persons.
Just about to start the tale of the curious husbond (chapter 33) now...
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Finished up volume one - not bad at all. It is a really old book, so there's a bit of repetitiveness, and an abundance of happy endings: everyone in the last part of vol. 1 gets reunited with their family members and lost loves. The nested stories made for variety and a wider gallery of characters - and an obvious joy in making up stories, and even a meta discussion of whether reading stories is a healthy business at all ...only the madman is really in favor ;)For a book written in 1605 not bad at all!
[BTW: I feel no obligation to do close studies of the madness, so I tend to skim more than read, whenever Don Q goes off on a mad rant - as I find most of them a bit boring and repetitive]
I referred to a scene in the book where DQ and S meet a king or dignitary. I think the dignitary was very rude. The woman in their party told S that if he wanted to gain the respect of the dignitary he should go up and slap him in the face. I was discussing this because of "bullies in the work place". When you slap them so to speak then they respect you, otherwise they are tyrants. I think if you look at it as a political satire, which it is, there is a lot that is relevant to our own going forth on "holy wars". Trying to meddle in other people's (countries) businesses. Coming off so self righteous, while completely destroying those we are "trying to help". Basically a farce.
So even though you think the different scenes are similar are not our own wars...our all wars similar. And the woman that DQ fights for i think is metaphoric for the country. Our country is considered a female name. When they don't really know what she looks like when they go back to find her because they had never seen her except in their imagination; it reminds me of men coming home from war and finding themselves in a country that doesn't understand their experiences. Is completely out of touch.
I don't think you have to read it the first time in a deep analytical way. I think that a lot of my insights have come later as i have pondered the different sences.
Have fun.
I was listening to How to Read Literature Like a Professor: A Lively and Entertaining Guide to Reading Between the LinesIn the sample from audible he shows you how a modern story has the same elements as DQ. Very insightful for your few minutes it will take.
Cosmic wrote: "I referred to a scene in the book where DQ and S meet a king or dignitary. I think the dignitary was very rude. The woman in their party told S that if he wanted to gain the respect of the dignit..."Good points about the self-justifications about going to war - Not sure about him fighting for his country, if that's what you meant - as the concept of the nation state is newer than the book. And Spain in particular; for most spaniards their primary identity is not being spanish - they are catalans, andalusians etc. first.
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Anetq wrote: "Not sure about him fighting for his country, if that's what you meant - as the concept of the nation state is newer than the book. "I didn't know this. Literally this is probably true. But for me I turned the woman into a metaphor. Because of the dangers of patriotism ring ture to the same philosophy that DQ spouses. Almost a religious fervour that one should not question. And i see this with DQ and his (I can't remember her name and may come back and fill this in) as she didn't send him in on any missions of mass destruction. He supposedly sets people free to feed his own ego and the the person is beaten worst than before he came on the scene. DQ sets convicts free that had then gone back to robbing. Reminds me of corruption in government. There are different ways of looking at the battles if you just think about the players. DQ could be a bureaucracy that is supposed to be doing good. And then we have to question the wisdom in that but it is in hindsight.
I thought the book would be better the second time around. I would like to read a different translation and see what i think of it.
I am really glad I read it!
Thought of another thing i really want to study next time i go through the book. DQ and P have a Jeff and Mutt routine going. There are a lot of dichotomies going on.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_...
Plus someone mentioned using different ways of writing. Which this has most genres, as a way to make book reviews more interesting. So if you were to find inspiration here in DQ for that, that might be interesting.
.....
I think the book he was talking about was one story told over and over in different ways...sounds a lot like DQ....only you have to admit this is better than that.
Exercises in Style
See Glenn Russell
https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/2... review of this book
I have been reading "How to Read Novels like a Professor". I enjoy the analysis and comments about various novels, comparing to how we comment on the novels we read, like and dislike. I am presently reading Persuasion, by Jane Austin. I am enjoying it and rooting for her. Guess I am engaged in her story.
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Looks like something for me to check out.
I'm guessing this is the book? How to Read Novels Like a Professor: A Jaunty Exploration of the World's Favorite Literary Form by Thomas C. Foster
Cool! My library has this book. I'm going to shelve it.Thanks for bringing it up.
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Thanks for bringing it up."
Gotta love those libraries!
Frances wrote: "I have been reading "How to Read Novels like a Professor". I enjoy the analysis and comments about various novels, comparing to how we comment on the novels we read, like and dislike. I am presen..."Last year I read How to Read Literature Like a Professor: A Lively and Entertaining Guide to Reading Between the Lines by the same author and thought it was very informative. I wonder how the two books differ, so I'll have to check out the one you are reading.
Here is a casebook that the Yale professor uses in his course that might give you more insight into the book:http://www.amazon.com/Cervantes-Don-Q...
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To me this is not a funny book, still working on finding the point of the story?
I found it an acquired humour. There were many absurdities that made me laugh, but it isn't for everyone. I think I listened on librivox In the end, so perhaps that helped me get through it. I would caution that if you don't enjoy the first book, then I'd consider stopping there, as book 2 is more of the same, but not as good.
Kathy wrote: "I'm reading this one and hoping to actually finish it this time. Using the Serial Reader App so only a small piece at a time. Can't say that I am loving the book, but it is palatable in the small c..."I didn't find it very funny. Not really into the slapstick humor. But an okay read - but I also recommend just reading book one (the sequel written 10 years later tries to live up to popular demand = more of the annoying not fun stuff).
I'm up to page 400 of my copy and loving it so far. What I would suggest is that it probably needs to be read in the context of the times and how one could translate it into a modern context. Don Quixote suffers from a delusional form of mental illness, lives in the past. Old white males of my generation in western society seriously suffer from a form of this by pining for their youth. His attacking windmills, as one example, was a form of mad slapstick that I read took the Spanish speaking world by storm. Think the same with say Charlie Chaplin at the turn of last century.
Sancho Panza is that unworldly individual that "believes" that past was so much better and will go along with Don Quixote without question. We are all prone to this. Our own conformation bias is palpable be it politics through to sport.
There is a hint of sexual liberalism that back when written would have been the equivalent of say the 60's cultural revolution. An aghast older generation and a younger reader that sex sells to.
Book burning. This is the time of the inquisition and at one point in my copy Cervantes praises the inquisition. One little line to get past the sensors? With the specific reference to book burning we have many modern examples with totalitarian regimes burning books (censorship) for whatever reason suits their ideology. In this case the books were burned for causing madness. In my opinion Cervantes is astonishingly clever by writing that this is not a good thing but has done it without upsetting the book burners of the day.
There are various stories that come into the tale that make comment as to the times the people live in. The tale of Anselmo, Lothario and Camilla would have been a sensation I would have thought, a wife swapping tale for the times. It has certain Soap Opera connotations that parallel modern life, everything from Dallas thought to Neighbours.
The Captive tells another tale that would have taken in the religious tensions of the time and are not far from being, again a parallel for the times. Love conquering all with an enthralling adventure.
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I also enjoyed the book burning scene, and Sancho is a lot of fun. Did anyone else see Marcela's speech in Chapter XIV as feminist? Basically, she says, "Hey, why do I have to love anyone back? I want my own life!" Bright girl for her time, I think.
I’m almost 300 pages in. I swear I’ve wanted to quit this book a million times. And then something weird and wonderful and funny unfolds and i dig back in. Overall it’s terrific. Carrying on…..
I can highly recommend looking at Gustave Doré engraving while reading. This may be a good site:https://www.wikiart.org/en/gustave-do...
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