Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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Group reads - a different format?
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I think it's a good idea, Carol. I never knew what really to post in the spoiler-free second half of the book thread. But personally, I find it easier to talk about books by sections, with spoilers permitted within that section. Another idea, and of course feel free to disregard it since it still keeps 3 threads for each book and you are looking to reduce the number of thread, is to have the first thread about the book in general - the edition we have, the cover art, when we are able to start reading it, when we have read it before, our general first impressions - all spoiler-free. The second thread could be the first half of the book with spoilers. And the third thread could be for the second half of the book with spoilers. This way there would be no need for spoiler tags, but we would still have an initial thread to talk about the book in general without spoilers.
Anyway, those are my 2 cents. However the group reads are set up, as long as we are reading GH all is good. :)
Maybe two threads, one using spoiler tags and one not (both for the entire book). I hate to ruin it for first time readers but if I am not rereading, it can be hard to tell what is in the first versus second half (especially secondary characters and off-plot dialogue). And within the second half, there can be surprises ruined for the first time reader if spoiler tags aren't used.However I am not very active in the group reads so whatever works for others will be fine with me.
I'm in the minority, I suspect, but I'm using experience from other groups too. I really enjoy group reads which divide the book into (say) ten chapter sections, on the basis that all comments on each section can have spoilers, and in fact really should have spoilers because we're discussing what has happened in that section, in detail. The rule is, of course, that you only go and look in that section when you've read those ten chapters and are ready to discuss them. So spoiler tags are never necessary.I have found some really good insights from other people when we're discussing a book in detail, especially when it's one I know well and they're reading it for the first time. I always read along so don't fall into the trap of mixing up what is in which section. (Anyone who doesn't want to re-read can of course comment in the final section.)
I find that when there is only one thread in which spoilers are allowed, covering the complete book, the discussion tends to be much more general and less enlightening. The thoughts you had about character Y in chapter 5 tend to be forgotten by the time you've seen him develop at the end of the book. And you can't just post periodically in the one thread, while you're reading the book, because you'll see comments from people who have finished which will be spoilers for you.
I agree that it would be nice to have a general section on how people are getting hold of the book, whether they've read it before, etc. -- obviously, spoiler free.
I think I'm with Hj on this one; I always read through the chapters before I go to the thread, even if it's a re-read for me, so that the things that struck me can be talked about while they're fresh. I wouldn't, for example, comment or read comments on Chapters 10-20, if I'd only got to Chapter 14. If we only divide the books into two sections, it's easier to forget what our first impressions were. And it's good to see how those change by the end of the book!
I like the general section idea, too, for spoiler free comments!
However many sections the book is divided into, I do prefer to have them set up so as to be able to discuss what all happened in that section without worrying about spoilers and not having to wait until the very end of the book for in depth discussions.
As I know what happens I'm not personally worried about spoilers but I tend to agree that it's better to split them up more if there's a lot to discuss.I actually don't think The Reluctant Widow is a good book to have less threads on though because it does have a mystery element and the speculations will probably (unintentionally) turn into spoilers if some people read quicker.
Thanks everyone for their feedback!I think generally speaking the first section does have a lot of the background info about format how often we read & so on.
I'm thinking it might be a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
If we do one of Gh's shorter books (Powder & Patch for example) I may go for the shorter format, but otherwise I'll leave as is!
***Carol*** wrote: "Thanks everyone for their feedback!I think generally speaking the first section does have a lot of the background info about format how often we read & so on.
I'm thinking it might be a case of ..."
We do have such good discussions that I agree: It ain't broke!
Yes, I'm with HJ on this. I've been in a couple of groups that just have the first thoughts and post-read format and the discussions don't get going as well. We really do have so much fun delving into all the little details!
I have been thinking about this for a couple of days now & thinking we might have to revisit this. All three threads of The Quiet Gentleman have open spoilers - in spite of the fact that at least two people said it was their first read. Some of them aren't a big deal - pretty hard to have a book discussion where something isn't revealed - but some of the comments in the second thread did spoil the read for me.
I quite like Urban Dictionary's definition of spoiler
When someone reveals a previously unknown aspect of something which you likely would have rather learned on your own.
& this is how you do spoiler tags.
<*spoiler> Your text <*/spoiler> but without the asterisks.
(view spoiler)
I still like my idea in message one the best, but was wondering if this would work.
Still three threads, but no discussion of the last two chapters of the book (unless using spoiler tags) until thread 3 - the spoiler thread.
Thoughts?
Perhaps we all simply need to pay more attention to which of the threads we’re chatting in. I went rioting off on a topic in one of the early threads, and then realized I was spoiling and deleted the post at the last moment. It’s easy to overlook the thread title once you’ve clicked through from your e-mail.
Abigail wrote: "Perhaps we all simply need to pay more attention to which of the threads we’re chatting in. . . . . It’s easy to overlook the thread title once you’ve clicked through from your e-mail."Exactly! I went to the other extreme a few days ago and tried not to give any spoilers until someone pointed out to me that I was on the spoiler site! :)
Anyway, I like Carol's suggestion.
I think we should all be more careful, and only put spoilers in the spoiler thread, rather than re-arrange anything. It isn't hard; we manage it on other groups! Mind you, I tend to feel that it's OK to talk about whatever has happened within the chapters in the thread up to the last one in that thread. Does anyone feel differently? I only go to the thread and start posting once I've read all the chapters in the thread.
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "I have been thinking about this for a couple of days now & thinking we might have to revisit this. All three threads of The Quiet Gentleman have open spoilers - in spite of the fact that at least..."
Thank you Carol! I have avoided all of the discussion threads because I do not want to read any spoilers. Maybe this will help.
I will endeavor to do better in this regard, myself.
HJ wrote: "I think we should all be more careful, and only put spoilers in the spoiler thread, rather than re-arrange anything. It isn't hard; we manage it on other groups! Mind you, I tend to fell that it'..."
Maybe that's the way I'll handle it too, from now on!
HJ wrote: "Mind you, I tend to feel that it's OK to talk about whatever has happened within the chapters in the thread up to the last one in that thread. Does anyone feel differently? I only go to the thread and start posting once I've read all the chapters in the thread. "Yes I do feel spoiler tags should be used.
Normally not a problem for me as I am usually one of the faster ones through the read - & I keep out of the second & spoiler thread till I'm finished the book.
But this title was an unusually slow read for me & after seeing spoilers in the first thread I thought I'd better check the second thread.
& the first spoiler was from memory posted less than an hour after I posted the opening comment.
For any new people (as I've probably said this before)- I've been on message boards since 2000 & I have never been on one where moderators have such limited powers. I can't edit or move comments. Most moderators on GR don't want to be able to edit comments, but have been asking GR for years for the ability to move comments to more appropriate threads.
I think the point is: is something which happens in the chapters which form part of the thread, even if in the last of those chapters, a spoiler? Because if it is, how can there be any meaningful discussion or commentary?
HJ wrote: "I think the point is: is something which happens in the chapters which form part of the thread, even if in the last of those chapters, a spoiler? Because if it is, how can there be any meaningful d..."Well, that's why I only wanted two threads per book. But I think if people want to put a spoiler in the second thread they can use spoiler tags. that way people can choose to see the spoiler or not. Or if they don't want to use spoiler tags they can use the spoiler thread.
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "I've been on message boards since 2000 & I have never been on one where moderators have such limited powers. I can't edit or move comments. Most moderators on GR don't want to be able to edit comments, but have been asking GR for years for the ability to move comments to more appropriate threads. "Curious! Just a day or two ago, the moderator on another Goodreads site let me know that she had moved a comment of mine from one thread to another. If that can be done on one GR site, why not on another?
Do we want to try a First Timers, Spoilers thread approach then?In the Jane Austen reads we tend to have more threads but then there's more analysis of each chapter, I'm not sure I could stop to comment on a Georgette Heyer so frequently because I read it faster.
I'm not sure what else we can do if we can't edit the posts, otherwise I'd volunteer to help on the romances as I've already read them.
MaryC wrote: "Curious! Just a day or two ago, the moderator on another Goodreads site let me know that she had moved a comment of mine from one thread to another. If that can be done on one GR site, why not on another? I expect she did what I did with the one I moved - cut & paste the comment to where it should be, then deleted the original comment. It's a bit unweildy & looks like I made the comment. See message 58 in the spoilers thread for the finished result!
Thanks for the kind offer Louise. I have already read all the romances but some like The Toll-gate & The Quiet Gentleman it was a long time ago.
Yes if everyone could post in this thread what they want. its a good test of consensus :)
I'd like First Impressions and a spoilers thread
I'd really like it if we had more analysis and discussion, and I don't see how we can unless we discuss plot points. My experience in other groups has been that we can do so if they're points which arise in the relevant section, without using spoiler tags.I have to admit that I'm a bit confused as to whether that's considered OK here, or not.
I think of the main spoilers allowed thread as the place to discuss the whole book, and themes which run all the way through, etc.. It's nice to be able to discuss details in the places in which they emerge i.e. in a section on certain chapters.
Yeah I think we are all confused - & I'm the moderator!Is there a reason that spoilers can't be used - & people can choose to open them or not.
& I put up a group rules thing after The Reluctant Widow. That should show up for first time posters. Can any newish members confirm they saw it when they first started in our group?
I had a reply moved here which I didn't think was a spoiler, as I didn't indicate *which* aristocrat from "The Quiet Gentleman" got away with what normal people can't get away with. But it was deemed a spoiler nevertheless and moved.
Howard wrote: "I had a reply moved here which I didn't think was a spoiler, as I didn't indicate *which* aristocrat from "The Quiet Gentleman" got away with what normal people can't get away with. But it was deem..."You don't seriously dispute that it was a spoiler, do you?
Howard wrote: "It's not important, but yes."With a cast of characters this small for someone who read this book a long time ago & didn't remember it well (ie me!) it was a spoiler.
Why not use the spoiler thread?
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "Howard wrote: "It's not important, but yes."With a cast of characters this small for someone who read this book a long time ago & didn't remember it well (ie me!) it was a spoiler...."
I agree, Carol. Any information about the baddie, including that he was an aristocrat, is a spoiler.
Just about everybody was an aristocrat.
Howard wrote: "Just about everybody was an aristocrat." It's a plot spoiler Howard. Use the spoiler thread for comments like that in future.
Howard wrote: "Just about everybody was an aristocrat."perhaps they thought the butler might have done it.
Howard wrote: "Just about everybody was an aristocrat." Good point, Howard!
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "Like I said - it was a plot spoiler [spoilers removed]"This is a spoiler.
MaryC wrote: "Howard wrote: "Just about everybody was an aristocrat." Good point, Howard!"Several of Heyer's novels have aristocrats getting away with things that ordinary people can't get away with. Sometimes they are minor characters, not too important to the plot. I figured that by not going into detail on who got away with what, I wasn't spoiling. But I'm not the moderator, and the moderator deemed it a spoiler. My big question is that I was told to not do it again, and question whether I understand the criteria to use. But I will do my best to comply.
I would say that a spoiler is anything that tells someone something about the main plot that they could not otherwise have guessed from what they've already read.You might be surprised at how much you can work out from a careless line and how it changes your perception of a book. You can never be vague enough about the end of a book to not spoil the beginning. (My mother doesn't understand spoilers either.)
I think the main thing is not to refer to things that happen in chapters after the ones listed in the thread you are posting in, and if you do comment on a major plot point to put it in the tags so that those who do not read as quickly don't get blindsided.
I remember that John Dickson Carr delineated a set of rules about mystery writing, among them that the killer must not be a servant, anyone working with the police, or any character whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to share. Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers each violated at least one of those rules at least once, but they (Christie especially) were above the rules! The relevance here is that, if the killer cannot be a servant, then the only characters left are ALL aristocrats (well, maybe not the doctor), so Howard's innocent comment can hardly be a spoiler!
That's hardly a law Mary, there's no saying Heyer chose to follow it, and I for one had never heard of it so, it would still be a spoiler for me and I imagine, the majority of romance readers.
I tried to go to the spoiler thread without answering an e-mail showing me the post - but I'm not figuring out how Goodreads works sufficiently.
Howard wrote: "I tried to go to the spoiler thread without answering an e-mail showing me the post - but I'm not figuring out how Goodreads works sufficiently."There are several ways to do it.You may find it easiest to click on Georgette Heyer Fans at the top of this page. Once there scroll down till you get to Group Reads. The 10 most current threads are showing. The Quiet Gentleman's spoiler thread should be one of them.
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I think 3 threads for most of Gh's books is too many.
For The Reluctant Widow I was wondering about just having two threads - one for the first half of the book, using spoiler tags as necessary & one for the second half where people go into it on the understanding that there may be open spoilers.
What does everyone else think?