Indie Book Club discussion
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Question on morality for a review blog
Hi Scott,I see both sides of the dilemma with this. I think you would need to carefully consider your guidlines for these paid reviews. For example, will you offer only 3-stars or above, otherwise you might get a lot of abuse from authors who feel you should have rated their work higher, especially as it was 'paid for'. You might stipulate that for those who did not meet with 3-stars or above, you will give a range of reasons why, offering a few hints and tips that would have made it better for you? Like you said, you don't want your blog, which you have worked hard to build and nurture a fan base, to suffer because of authors slandering it should they not get the rating they expected.
On the other hand, I think that for all your hard work and dedication, why not try and get a little back? I guess you already get free copies of books etc, so some might already say you get quite a bit from what you do already, but these free books don't pay for internet or computer expenses, and the less you have to spend getting books online, the more you have in your pocket to pay for internet and computer expenses, so I do not see a problem with that.
I guess my only concern would be one of bias. Would the paid reviews sepercede the request of the poor first-time author who is struggling to get his book noticed? Of course that is your perogative, and you have always managed to be fair and expedient with your reviews, so I cannot see this as being too much of an issue, if anything, thecharge might prevent some authors from requesting a free review, as they could deem it not worth their time to be at the back of the 'non-paying' queue?
Definitely food for thought.
How did the plans for author advertisement on the blog go? What about a quarterly review newsletter with reviews, new release info, upcoming release info etc, where authors could pay for advertisement? I am sure Jeff would love to assist with that (haha, sorry Jeff) and I am sure that between the two of you, you could come up with some amazing ideas.
~Rob
I have to think that there must be better ways to monetize your blog. Anything that gives even the appearance of "paid reviews" is likely to hurt your credibility. Paid ads in your sidebar might be a better tack, or a "featured books" page or banner ad where books that you've previously reviewed with 3 stars or higher would be eligible to pay for expanded promotion.I like Robert's ideas above, also.
Mod
I've seen a few review blogs that do the pay for expedited reviews with one charging $25 for the privilege.
In regards to terms for the reviews, I don't post a review under 3 stars anyway so that's not a problem. The paid reviews would get preference over free reviews, but I don't imagine that I'd get all that many requests so I can't see it really taking that much away from my normal schedule.
The advertisement never really got off the ground as I didn't get any other banners for the trial run. I was just going to give a few people a month a piece to try, but no one ever sent me anything. The newsletter thing is an interesting idea though I'm not sure if I really have the time to dedicate to something like that right now.
I appreciate the ideas that you guys are coming up with though.
Mod
Could you have an advertising service instead? Pay X amount and get your book cover/a banner or suchlike promoted on the blog for Y weeks. You could also have a promo-lottery with, say, a $1 entry fee and one winner each week/month who gets promotion (losers get nothing, of course).
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If I had a huge following like you do, then I'd probably do something like, "This month's must read Fantasy Selection!" or "Featured Thriller is ...". Depending how many takers you get, you can say that the promotion is good for two weeks, or maybe four.
Hmmmm... *tapping fingers*
What I'd be willing to do is pay a fee to be featured on your blog, offer a Smashwords coupon that might drop a little off the price of book 2 or 3, and then I'd be able to track it to see how many times the coupon was used. Might be harder for me, though, as my first book is free.
Just a thought!
Scott wrote: "The advertisement never really got off the ground as I didn't get any other banners for the trial run. I was just going to give a few people a month a piece to try, but no one ever sent me anything. ..."I must have missed the call to send you ads. Or was it only for books you've already reviewed?
Maybe we can start working on something for Scott's blog, like..... "Biggest Indie Book Raffle.... EVER!" Those interested could buy tickets using Paypal or something along those lines, and authors could offer books as part of a prize or list of prizes.I.e,
1st Prize - Print books from authors associated with The Indie Book Blog.
2nd Prize - EBooks from authors associated with The Indie Book Blog.
3rd Prize - Assorted Indie Book paraphernalia I.e, Demon Gates bookmark, Bakkian Chronicles shirt etc etc....
I, for one, would love to give back to Scott for the reviews and time he has given to help promote my books, and I think others would as well.....
Just a thought :)
~Rob
Mod
I believe there was a conversation here in the book club about it a few months ago. I dont' remember what topic it took place under though. The offer is still open though I'm looking for stuff the same size as the add for Hemlock that is currently on the blog. No requirements for me having reviewed the book (though yours is coming hopefully soon). If you have anything let me know and you can get a month of feature.
I'm actually a little leery of charging for ad space as I don't know how effective it will be. I wanted to run some test runs to see if the authors I featured had any kind of an appreciable change in sales numbers or if there was nothing noticeable. I would feel bad charging for ad space if I knew there was nothing to come of it. I started to the blog to meet new authors and try to help them out, not to try to scam a few bucks off of people. That's why I originally suggested the pay for a time slotted review method, as that is a service that I have control over and can guarantee.
Mod
That's a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure on how well it would actually work. There are so many free book giveaways that it may be difficult to get people to give money for a chance to win.
I love the idea about the random book merch. I always think it's awesome when I get a bookmark with a book that is sent to me for review. I've also offered to distribute them to coworkers and my local library if people wanted to send me a couple of extra ones. My library actually has a booth at a local farmers market over the summer and I'm sure they wouldn't mind handing out some stuff there.
I'll admit that I geek out a bit over book stuff especially signed and for a while I was considering do a frame filled with signed bookmarks to display somewhere in my house, but I haven't seen many bookmarks lately and the four I have would look pretty lonely lol.
Scott I'd love to have an ad on your site, if you were willing to feature it. I would want to do it for Myriad, my free book, in the hopes that people would then buy the sequel. The cover isn't feminine or anything so I think it would suit your site. I wouldn't expect you to review it.
To be honest I'd rather have a picture of both books on the ad and advertise the series but that might mess with the statistics you want. I'd be happy to pay for the ad if you wanted it, as long as it's not too expensive.
Anyway, let me know. I think it would be really good, as I like your site. It's okay if you couldn't place the ad for a long while, but I am interested :)
To be honest I'd rather have a picture of both books on the ad and advertise the series but that might mess with the statistics you want. I'd be happy to pay for the ad if you wanted it, as long as it's not too expensive.
Anyway, let me know. I think it would be really good, as I like your site. It's okay if you couldn't place the ad for a long while, but I am interested :)
Scott wrote: "The offer is still open though I'm looking for stuff the same size as the add for Hemlock that is currently on the blog. No requirements for me having reviewed the book (though yours is coming hopefully soon). If you have anything let me know and you can get a month of feature...."Do you happen to have any idea what size that is so I can put something together?
Mod
Scott wrote: "I'll look when I get home today and see if I have dimensions."Thank you!
Did you not see my message Scott? It's okay if the answer's no, but I'd appreciate a response :)
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Sorry I didn't realize you were at work :)
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Work is so overrated!...anyways. I totally get how you're feeling Scott, both in feeling like a hobby has become a job/obligation at times, and wanting to find a little income. And it's clear that everyone else understand too and we all want to support your efforts!
I will confess, however, that the idea of any money changing hands over reviews does bother me on some level. I understand the thought process and know that you'd be totally above board, it still strikes me as a little too... grey area for me, I suppose.
It would also lead me to worry, as others have expressed, that some authors would feel they've "paid for" a stellar review. Everyone already knows that some authors can be 'cranky' even when things are spelled out for them ahead of time.
The ad space thing is a fair idea, I think. If you offer fair prices, people wouldn't expect high gains from it. Even here on goodreads, which is huge, results can vary. And it feels like slightly less "grey area" and less likely to offer authors an easy opening to trouble you over it.
Also, you could perhaps cut back a little on all the things you try to do for authors. You're doing it for free, so the frequency and amount of work you do is not up to us but to you. I'm sure people would understand, and then you'd feel a little less pressured with it, perhaps.
But that's just me. I would be interested in the ad spots, though, when you've got it sorted out to your liking. :)
J.D. the ad on Scott's blog is 728 x 90 pixels. I downloaded the image and that's what it is.
Mona wrote: "J.D. the ad on Scott's blog is 728 x 90 pixels. I downloaded the image and that's what it is."Thamks, Mona!
Mod
In regards to the ad Mona, you are welcome to feature both book covers if you would prefer to promote the series over an individual work. I'm more concerned with the clicks the banner gets than tracking any specific book.
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Your prices are actually very cheap. Do you mean for a whole month? Or on a rotation with other ads during the month? $10 for a week is cheap, from what I've seen out there. You could easily charge $30 for a banner ad for a month, in my opinion, and I think it would be better to charge a decent price so people think the spot is valuable. It's just what I think, though.
I designed an ad (I was bored) and I'd be happy if you wanted to use it when you sort out what you're doing. I know J.D. got in first, but whenever you're ready that would be good.
EDIT: Click for bigger image.
I designed an ad (I was bored) and I'd be happy if you wanted to use it when you sort out what you're doing. I know J.D. got in first, but whenever you're ready that would be good.
EDIT: Click for bigger image.
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Rob - Feel free to create a banner as well, you've been around since the Amazon forum so I'd be glad to give you a testing spot.
Jeff - I think the ads being the same size would help out. I'm not sure about sizing for sidebar ads.
Mod
...anyways. I totally get how you're feeling Scott, both in feeling like a hobby has become a job/obligation at times, and wanting to find a little income. And it's clear tha..."
Mia - I'd be happy to have an adspace for you during my trial faze. I'm thinking two banner ads right now so I have a little bit of space right now.
Scott, I think you should monetize your blog, and about time, my friend! But I think charging for reviews is going to be problematic. Ads are good.
My question to you is, what percentage of your readership is non-indie authors? Because, let's face it, most of us authors are reading less in order to write more. The bigger your non-author readership, the more you can monetize (and the more we will want to buy ads on your site!)
I think the best way to monetize your website is:
(1) increase non-author readership.
(2) Start a mail list (with Mailchimp, for e.g.) and send out regular email newsletters (maybe with reviews, maybe with news about top 10 or 20 freebies in your review categories--readers love to sign up to get info on freebies). If you mail out reviews, be sure to include just the start of the review, as a teaser, to get the recipient to follow a link to your blog to read the rest.
(3) use your Amazon Affiliate account to create a list of best recommendations for people to peruse and purchase from.
(4) Let people know in each review to click the book cover link to get credit for their purchase. I had no idea you had that setup until I tried clicking the cover of Slipstream just now as a test.
Anyway, my thoughts. I would love to see you do well, Scott. If you want to brainstorm those ideas or others, feel free to message me.
Thanks for putting my ad up Scott! I wasn't expecting that I just wanted to show you :) Linking to Myriad like you've done I think is better. I think two ads is fine but my ad looks a little small, so they don't match. I think I made mine the right size but if it is smaller let me know and I'll give you another one :)
Mod
Ads are good.
My question to you is, what percentage of you..."
I'm not sure how many of my subscribers are pure readers. I have been trying to increase my numbers with the giveaways and such, but I'm not sure how much success I'm having with that.
I'm not really familiar with newsletters though I'm hesitant as I have a lot of trouble expressing myself in type. It can take me over an hour to write a somewhat short book review so I don't know how I would do with something like that.
I have the budget book buys page as a similar idea to your best of list. All of the links on the budget page are Amazon affiliate links for me. I also generally include an affiliate link in each review so it's not just the cover that works as a way for me to get a little cut.
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Scott wrote: "J.D. or Mona have you noticed anything from the ads this month? Traffic and clicks have been down since it's been such an absentee month for me, but I was just wondering."
It's a little hard for me to say whether the ads have been helping. There hadn't been a lot of free downloads for Myriad until the last few days, but that coincides with me doing a Goodreads paperback giveaway for the sequel. I'm not getting a huge amount of downloads but it increased recently. The ads might be helping, but I don't know. Sorry I can't offer more info. Maybe J.D. can give you a better answer about how effective the ads are, if he's had more sales.
You would know if our ads are being clicked on - whether they sell or not is about the book and reviews. I think your best method of judging if the ads work is by how many clicks they get. It's not your site's fault if the books don't sell more, once the ad's been clicked on. I hope that makes sense.
It's a little hard for me to say whether the ads have been helping. There hadn't been a lot of free downloads for Myriad until the last few days, but that coincides with me doing a Goodreads paperback giveaway for the sequel. I'm not getting a huge amount of downloads but it increased recently. The ads might be helping, but I don't know. Sorry I can't offer more info. Maybe J.D. can give you a better answer about how effective the ads are, if he's had more sales.
You would know if our ads are being clicked on - whether they sell or not is about the book and reviews. I think your best method of judging if the ads work is by how many clicks they get. It's not your site's fault if the books don't sell more, once the ad's been clicked on. I hope that makes sense.
Mod
As to how to earn a little scratch from the effort the book ads and banners make a lot of sense. I have lost track of the amounts that have been floated overall. But, I would think you could do this:
1) banner ad 728 x 90 pixels - 1 shown on each page selected from a max of 4: $20 - 1 week, $35 - 2 weeks, $50 - 3 weeks, $60 - 4 weeks (first come first served, just keep track in a simple file)
2) Sidebar Book cover spot 100x160 pixels - 3 shown on each page refresh at random, with say a max of 12 total: $15 - 2 weeks, $25 - 4 weeks (first come first served, just keep track in a simple file)
3) New releases announcement page showing book cover 100x160 pixels and 300 word blurb, $30 for a listing.
With this you would have to update two ad selection files each week, and keep track of who is next and for how long to leave the image in the file. Overall not a lot of effort once it is set up.
On giveaways, they are real easy to run using RaffelCopter.com. You can do it for free. There are a few watch out for items. But, really easy to set up. This is a great way to get people interested and coming around. The raffle could have up to three eBooks (I would make a printed copy raffle a big deal). Not sure if you should charge for this or not. I have mixed feelings.
A mailing list doesn't make much sense if you are doing all this other stuff. But, if you ever get super popular some of the larger mailing list companies have a template based system where they can generate a mailing list from your website updates... Just a thought.
So there are some more thoughts to bounce around in your head. In the end it is your site so do what you feel good about and can support!
+ Leeland
I am pretty certain paid reviews contravene Amazons TOS. Also personally I think it is a bit dodgy. A free book is one thing but a monetary payout is probably courting trouble, the review may be honest but it might not be seen that way, especially if it is a glowing one.I would be dubious of any review an author paid for, even with the best intentions.
Ads are something different - sure run ads, have giveaways, use amazon affiliates, and any other similar schemes but paid reviews I think you are risking discrediting yourself and the authers.
Mod
As to how to earn a little scratch from the effort the book ads and banners make a lot of sense. I have lo..."
I have done many a giveaway with Rafflecopter and can't see charging to have them done on my site. That's a very comprehensive price breakdown that you have there Leeland. I hadn't really considered anything that in depth so thank you for the info, I'm sure I'll be referencing that when it comes time to get things figured out.
BTW I will almost certainly spell your name wrong at some point as my stepdad's name is Leland and that spelling is much more habitual for me, so no offense meant if it slips past me occasionally.
Mod
I agree 100%, just keep them fun. A regular giveaway will generate traffic.
Thank you for the compliment I hope it helps you out.
On the name, no issue, lots of people misspell it. My last name is what tends to drive people nuts.
Scott wrote: "J.D. or Mona have you noticed anything from the ads this month? Traffic and clicks have been down since it's been such an absentee month for me, but I was just wondering."My sales this month have been pretty steady, averaging out to almost exactly what they did in January so far, with a few days having peaks and a few having valleys. There's nothing spectacular I can report with respect to increased sales from the banner, but I won't discount the possibility that the banner has helped with keeping sales at a sustained high level for this long. I need to go look at the site again and check what days you posted things, to see how closely that correlates with those peaks and valleys. You would have better stats on banner clicks than I would.
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Leeland wrote: "...On the name, no issue, lots of people misspell it. My last name is what tends to drive people nuts."Speaking of which, I recognize you from Dragon Blade's "Also Bought" list on Amazon. Good luck with Thread Slivers.
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Super cool news to get. Thanks!
+ Leeland
Scott I just checked the dates of your last blog posts, and I had a bump in downloads around the next day, which lasted about 3 days. I think the ad definitely helped, so if you post on your blog reasonably often I think the people who have ads on your site will have good success.
Thank you for posting my ad. I'm not sure when you'll take it down, but I'll most likely pay for a spot soon. I'm not sure how payment via Amazon gift cards works - I find this kind of confusing, especially since I use my personal debit card with my Amazon account, and I'll have to switch to my business debit card to purchase something which I'd consider a business expense (the ads). Although it might look weird on my business spread sheet if I write "Amazon gift card." I'd prefer it if you accepted payment by PayPal, but I'll see what I can do :)
Thank you for posting my ad. I'm not sure when you'll take it down, but I'll most likely pay for a spot soon. I'm not sure how payment via Amazon gift cards works - I find this kind of confusing, especially since I use my personal debit card with my Amazon account, and I'll have to switch to my business debit card to purchase something which I'd consider a business expense (the ads). Although it might look weird on my business spread sheet if I write "Amazon gift card." I'd prefer it if you accepted payment by PayPal, but I'll see what I can do :)
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The second account immediately credits the sender their money back after a week. I've lost around $100 from me sending out the merchandise sold and Paypal then removing the money from my account. Once again no help whatsoever from their customer service so, until I absolutely have to use them, I'm done.
I'm very glad that you had a bit of a spike in downloads, it's good to hear that the ad was helpful.
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I'm sorry you had so much trouble with PayPal. That sounds really stressful. I'm happy to try the Amazon gift card thing, I just have to figure it out when the time comes. There's probably nothing else you can do, other than direct deposit into your bank account, but I'm not sure if you'd want to give out your bank account details. Hopefully you'll get a lot of people buying ad space, because I think it's quite useful :)
Mona wrote: "I'm not sure how payment via Amazon gift cards works - I find this kind of confusing, especially since I use my personal debit card with my Amazon account, and I'll have to switch to my business debit card to purchase something which I'd consider a business expense (the ads). ..."I'd just set up another Amazon account to only use for business purposes. That way if you send out gift copies to reviewers, order office supplies through Amazon, etc., or pay for ads on Scott's blog, you just use that account.
I just added my business debit card to my Amazon account, so there's two payment options. I tried to order a giftcard - just a dummy one to myself for 15c, and it asked me to comfirm the card number because I was sending something to a new email address. That way I could put which card I wanted to use. This is an easy fix, so it solves the problem.
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Mona - I'm glad it wasn't a huge hassle for you to get things set up.
Scott Amazon stopped making Myriad free today, so you should probably take my ad down because now it's misleading. It only happened because I removed Myriad temporarily from Apple, and even though it's free everywhere else Amazon stopped price-matching. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know.
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I was thinking of charging something like $10 for a review that required a specific short term turnaround. Reviews with no specific requirement still wouldn't cost anything and a paid for time constraint would not affect the books rating in any way. Also just because someone is willing to pay for a quick turnaround still wouldn't guarantee a review, I would still only accept stuff I want to read and would actually probably be more discerning.
I worry that this would make me seem more mercenary and less unbiased however. I think I've built a decent reputation with my blog and don't want to cause it to crash by offering another service.
What do all the authors think about the idea? Does $10 for a review guaranteed to hit Amazon, Amazon UK, Shelfari, Goodreads, Barnes and Noble, and my blog (provided the book is available on all those sites) seem like a fair exchange? Also the payment would be required to be an Amazon gift card, Paypal and I are on the outs.