The A&M Group Facebook Page and Blog

[Gretchen]

I thought your post was very well written. I agree with many of the points you made. I do not typically allow reviews to dictate what I read. If I see a book that sparks my interest, nine times out of ten I'm going to read it. However, since I have started spending more time on Goodreads, I find myself paying a little more attention to reviews but I don't allow the reviews to dictate what I am going to read. I generally use the reviews as a follow up after I have read something. My issue is with people who use their reviews to make personal attacks on people (authors or other reviewers). I know this issue is a pretty big issue in some forums. It is possible to provide an honest, critical review of a book without being flat out mean. If you want to review books, make sure your review is about the books. I have little respect for reviewers who rant about the author and then have nothing to say about the actual book. Authors should welcome negative reviews along with the positive. In the working world, you don't always get a positive review for the job you do. You have to learn to take the bad with the good and move forward. I realize this post has the potential to open a can of worms but from what I've seen in this group, we're all adults who don't need to resort to bullying.

[Linda]

I agree with you. You have a good way of saying things.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Gretchen wrote: "I thought your post was very well written. I agree with many of the points you made. I do not typically allow reviews to dictate what I read. If I see a book that sparks my interest, nine times out..."


Don't worry, you won't open a can of worms. That reviewer author war stuff doesn't go on in her. I would not let it.

I don't regard a review of the author as a review anyway. I definitely don't include those in my opinion piece about reviewing. :)
Book reviews to me are reviews about books. reviews about authors do not exist in my world and I never see them from the members of this group that are in my friends list.

Reviewers need to, as I said at the bottom of my blog post, 'Say what you mean, don't say it mean'.
If reviewers keep that adage in mind when they go to write a review they will know when they are saying 'what they mean', and when they are saying 'it mean'.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Linda wrote: "There is no need to review if you cannot address the negative and positive aspects of the book. Easy to say but hard to follow. What I have learned from all of you is to first read the author's p..."

Exactly. I don't understand why anybody who is writing a review for other readers to read, would want to leave out the reason they didn't like the book or the writing.
If a person is writing a review for the author, then I get why they want to be one sided. But as a reader who reviews for readers, I do not want to be one sided. I want to express what I did and didn't like about the book.

[Jesse]

Terri wrote: "Gretchen wrote: "I thought your post was very well written. I agree with many of the points you made. I do not typically allow reviews to dictate what I read. If I see a book that sparks my interes..."

Yes, think of Terri in this group as Gandalf against the shadow in LOTR. 'None shall Pass!' I'm joking but seriously she does a real good job of policing those kinds of shenanigans outta here.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

haha. I would like to think I have a lot less beard than gandalf...O_0

[C.P.]

We certainly hope so, Terri!

Not that there's anything wrong with a good beard, on the right person. ;-)

But seriously, you do a good job.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

yeah, I'll leave the beards for those who suit them. :)

Thanks for the compliment. :D

[Jesse]

Terri wrote: "yeah, I'll leave the beards for those who suit them. :)

Thanks for the compliment. :D"

Well you could always have extra employment if you did decide on a beard...Circus. ;)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

That's true. ;)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I have done a blog post on the A&M blog called "The 10 Must Read Books of the Historical Fiction Genre"
http://ancientandmedievalmayhem.blogs...

I know that not everybody is going to agree with this list, but you have to remember, there can only be ten on the list and it is not supposed to be books you really like. It has to be books that represent the diverse nature of the genre, that also are well known and somewhat easy to find in libraries and bookstores.

There are books I hate or dislike on the list. I would much rather have put my faves on the list instead of them. But those faves aren't in the interest of the historical fiction reading community. And those new to it.

[happy]

Interesting list - thx

[Lisa]

Good choices Terri!

[happy]

They ARE good choices - for purposes of discussion - I probably wouldn't have gone so heavy on Mr. Cornwell's books ( I really don't know which ones I would cut - I'll have to think on that some more). I would include one by Rutherfurd, Sarum: The Novel of England probably, one by Penman(sorry Terri)- either When Christ and His Saints Slept or Devil's Brood and last but not least one by Michener - either Hawaii or The Source.

[Jesse]

As if my TBR list needed to get any larger! Thanks a lot Terri, geez! Kidding, mostly...I have read half of them and will have to get on reading through my list. I have a few series collected that I need to get started on.

[Liza]

Thanks, Terri,
I've just put Pompeii on my Kindle for holidays next week (Lisbon, not Pompeii!)

[Pamela]

Thanks for this Terri. As someone new to this genre, I reckon the recommendations from the blog and the Group read books will give a really good intro.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

I shared your blog post with the book group I belong to on Facebook. It's been provoking an interesting discussion. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Pamela wrote: "Thanks for this Terri. As someone new to this genre, I reckon the recommendations from the blog and the Group read books will give a really good intro."

That's wonderful, Pamela.
I hope the ones you pick off the list help you discover where your tastes lay. :) Then you will be able to seek out all the ones you think you would like to try amoung the many thousands waiting for you.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Liza wrote: "Thanks, Terri,
I've just put Pompeii on my Kindle for holidays next week (Lisbon, not Pompeii!)"


Oh, Pompeii will make a terrific holiday read! Enjoy (I hope) :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Margaret wrote: "I shared your blog post with the book group I belong to on Facebook. It's been provoking an interesting discussion. :)"

haha. :D Well I hope some of those in the discusson, even those who don't like the list, have found a book or two to read on it.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

A number have read a lot of the books and it seems to be provoking interest in Bernard Cornwell :D

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

happy wrote: "They ARE good choices - for purposes of discussion - I probably wouldn't have gone so heavy on Mr. Cornwell's books ( I really don't know which ones I would cut - I'll have to think on that some mo..."

I want to touch on some of recs here happy, but my comments are also to the broader community as you are not the only one who has brought up the 3 BC and Penman.

let me explain my choices a little better. :)

I think most people who want to try the genre would like Rutherfurd too. But I have only read one, the one you mention, and thought it was 80 percent rubbish. But then, whether I like the book or not, should not matter when compiling a list like this. If you start thinking in 'my favourite books/authors' or 'books I liked' then you aren't working on a list like this. You are working on a 'books you like in the genre' list.
The list includes books I don't like. So I would have put Sarum on it because it is so well liked...only it is a list of ten and can't have everybook on it.

Re: Cornwell
I didn't want three BC on the list. I hated Azincourt. But most people love it. Plus it is a stand alone. And the votes on our groups Recommended Reading List speaks volumes about what books must be on that must read 10 list.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/2...

That aside though, Authors should not matter when doing a list like this. It is all about the stories. The subject matter. They are three books on very desireable topics, but are also accessible to people new to this kind of hf. The 100 Years' War/battle of Azincourt (which is a monumental moment in history), Arthurian, and the birth of Anglo Saxon England. They are the best of those popular themes. That the same guy wrote them doesn't matter.


The books by Penman and ones such as Michener
The books on the list have to do two things. They have to be as close to our A&M theme as possible and they have to represent the feel of the place.
I don't think Penman books represent the group feel at all. That's why they aren't getting a lot of votes on the A&M Recommended Reading List.
They aren't unisex enough. If a female authored book should go on the list I would prefer A Bloody Field by Shrewsbury, Rome: The Emperor's Spy or Insurrection.
These are gritty, ballsy books that are high quality writing and not focused on relationships. Books that men who don't like relationship focused type books can pick up and read without the mushy stuff.
Michener aren't books I would suggest new members try to get a feel for the genre.

Also, when people are thinking about what books they think new members here should try to get a feel for the genre, keep in mind the Ancient & Medieval theme.
I usually have a soft cut off for medieval. Anything pre 1700. Although medieval actually finishes 1500

on that list there has to be a fairly even spread of ancient and medieval. I did lean towards medieval, but I tried to keep it fairly well balanced. There's only one medieval more than ancient on the list.
Ancient
The Winter King - non fantasy mythology
Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae - battle fiction
Pride of Carthage - epic battle fiction
Pompeii - adventure/Roman Mystery

Medieval
The Last Kingdom - coming of age
Azincourt - epic battle fiction
Dissolution - tudor mystery
The Hangman's Daughter - gothic mystery/translated hf
The Whale Road - adventure
Genghis: Birth of an Empire - coming of age

Then there is the spread of themes
Epics, mystery, adventure coming of age, non fantasy mythology and battle fiction.
I listed those nexg to the titles above.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Margaret wrote: "A number have read a lot of the books and it seems to be provoking interest in Bernard Cornwell :D"

That's interesting. I thought those BC books would be the ones they had read already if they have read ones on the list. . :)

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Terri wrote: "Margaret wrote: "A number have read a lot of the books and it seems to be provoking interest in Bernard Cornwell :D"

That's interesting. I thought those BC books would be the ones they had read al..."

Some had, but a few people hadn't, so those ones are now interested.

[Dawn]

Thanks for the post Terri. I found it very interesting to go make my own list. :)

[Darcy]

I've been thinking about my own list too. The inclusion of The Hangman's Daughter also got me thinking about a translated historical fiction list.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

A translated historical fiction list would be good. Only I haven't read enough.

Look at some of the greats we have to pick from (not all loved by me, but still big hitters of the genre) from Europe alone.

Kristin Lavransdatter
The Hangman's Daughter
The Iron King
The Name of the Rose
The King's Hounds

..the list goes on and on..

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Something else to keep in mind if you are swapping books I have added to my A&M list for ones you think are a good intro to the genre..what the new members who, in their first post in threads like Meet & Greet, asks for recs on.

The most common requests.
"I want to try a Bernard Cornwell or something like him. Which ones should I try?"
That is the most common one

"I like books about Arthur that aren't fantasy. Any ideas?"

Then others requests like...
"I want to try a couple mysteries. Preferably in a series"
"I like the tudor era. Would like a Tudor mystery series to follow"

"I like Ben Kane books. What other books about battles should I try"
"I like books about battles. What are the best ones?"

"I read The Last Kingdom and want to read more fiction on Vikings."

That 'must read' list gives an answer for all those requests.

BC books: The Winter King, The Last Kingdom, Azincourt (Sharpe isn't as well received in that scenario because it is too modern. Too much in the time of guns. New members tend to come here looking for Ancient & Medieval).

Non fantasy Arthurian: The Winter King

Mysteries: The Hangman's Daughter, Dissolution

Tudor mystery (which is very popular): Dissolution

Ben Kane books or battle books: Pride of Carthage, Gates of Fire

Viking: The Whale Road. I picked it over Raven Blood Eye because I think it is a bit better than Raven.

Throw in Pompeii and the Ghengis book not because we get requests for them but because Ghengis is representing Asia in that 10 and Pompeii is just a great book about that volcano event.

And there has to be a Viking bok on the list in my opinion. With the tv series and movies on the horizon, members are seeking, and will come seeking, viking fiction to sate their newfound interest.

[happy]

Terri wrote: "happy wrote: "They ARE good choices - for purposes of discussion - I probably wouldn't have gone so heavy on Mr. Cornwell's books ( I really don't know which ones I would cut - I'll have to think o..."

Fair enough - thnx for the explaination

'tis a good list

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I did not undertake the compilation of it lightly. Much deliberation went into it. :D
A thousand small reasons for every single book.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I edited the blog post to add some pretty bookcover pictures to each of the 10. Bookcovers make things look so much prettier. :)

[Dawn]

Very nice, I love covers. I can't help it, I really do just a book by it's cover! :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Me too. I am a shameless advocate of judging a book by its cover. *presents wrists* lock me up now. I admit it.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Covers can make all the difference to a book. I love the Hobbit. My current copy has a very nice picture of Martin Freeman as Bilbo Baggins on it. However, I still miss my original copy that had a beautiful painting of Smaug sitting on his hoard on the cover.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

That is the cover that sticks in my mind from when I read it in Primary School. Smaug on his big pile of gold.

I have to say, that without realising it, the 10 books on the Must Read list I did up are some of the finest covers in the genre.
Some of my favourite covers are there.

[Dawn]

You did pick out the nice covers. They look good all in a row like that!

[happy]

I'll second the covers - nice touch!

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Thanks! :D
All those covers are why I like to buy paper books too.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

That agincourt cover is an especially handsome cover. :)

[[deleted user]]

Awesome blog & awesome covers, Terri. They're all outstanding, but I'm partial to this one . :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Thankyou, sir. :)
That is one of my favourite covers too. I like owning that one.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I have had a couple people say to me that Name of the Rose should be on that Must Read list.

Here's why it isn't.

Each book on that list is chosen to represent a certain theme or sub genre of the kinds of HF we cater to here in A&M.

Since I wanted to do 5 Ancient books and 5 Medieval books on the 10, that only leaves..well..5 medieval books to compile.
I failed and did 6 medieval and 4 ancient because I added Ghengis in. To represent a country other than Europe. I didn't want the 10 books to be all European. that's why I added Pride of Carthage too.

So if you are doing your own lists to see what you come up with, you really should stick to that guideline. Because we are Ancient & Medieval. Both need to be represented in a list like this.

Of those 5 a broad spectrum of sub genres should have a representative.

The ones I think needed to be there in those Medieval 5 are there due to their popularity and ability to appeal to newbies to the genre of Historical Fiction;

Mystery
Battle
Translation (preferably mystery as those are very popular when translated to English)
Coming of Age
Viking (due to mass appeal right now)

Those are what I think are the most popular sub genres of historical fiction right now.

So why isn't Name of the Rose on the list?
Because there is only one spot for it, or you have too many mysteries on the list.

The spot it would have to take is Translated.
Is it better than The hangman's daughter for that spot? I didn't think so.
I don't think it has as broad an appeal as The Hangman's Daughter for people wanting to try the genre of HF and I certainly don't think it is as accessible.
The Name of the Rose is the kind of book that can put people off the genre. If it is their first taste of it. It is long, and complex and stuffy. Whether you love the book or not, it is quite an undertaking to read that book.

Introductions to the genre shouldn't be such hard work.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

In hindsight, maybe I should have explained in the blog post, the guidelines I used to come up with books I did.
Because some people on FB and twitter and on the Blog seem to just want their favourite books and authors on a must read list and think my list is a bit of a fail. lol. :D

They aren't considering what people ask for the most in this group. And what books get the most votes on our Recommended Reading List. And what sub genres and themes are the most popular across a large cross section of people. And what books seem to be the catalyst for bringing new readers to the genre.
(After all, Two of those BC books The Winter King and The Last Kingdom and the Pressfield book Gates Of Fire are renowned for being genre 'crossover' books. People who read fantasy often name those three books as the single reason they started reading the historical fiction genre).

Maybe some of those comments would go differently if they truly understood what the thought process was behind the compilation of it.

Anyways, :) that list, that blog post, http://ancientandmedievalmayhem.blogs... is what I will direct newbies to when they ask in GR "what books in the genre they should try, to get a feel for it?"

The idea of making an official list for new members of A&M (or existing members) to explore was to help them try these 10 individual examples of the most popular 'types' of HF, to see where they think they will like to go within the genre if they like it..ie battle, mystery, coming of age..etc..

P.S Darcy I'd like to see your list when you do it. :) Too see what you would choose for those themes and sub genres.
I have seen Dawn's. her list that is...

[Darcy]

I'm still working on mine. Some are definitely the same though, Pompeii for example, I would add to mine as well. Give me a few days and I'll have one :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I will start the clock. :D

(dying from curiousity here, but I can wait a few days I suppose)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I'd like Dawn to keep her list a secret until you have done yours. :)
I think there are some surprises on Dawn's list and I am wondering if one book in particular will end up on your list too, Darcy.

So no revealing Dawn! not yet. :D

[Darcy]

I start hols when done work on Friday, so latest Saturday afternoon (Sunday morning for you Terri)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

By the way, when I say 'if anybody does a must read 10 please use my guidelines', I am not saying my way or the highway.
What I mean is those are the guidelines I used to come up with the 10. So if you want to do the same list, to serve the same purpose, you would have to use the same guidelines as I did to keep in the spirit of the list.

:)

[Dawn]

At least Darcy gets to create her list with all the criteria laid out. I had to make a second one to take out all my after 1700 books! And after that is when I found out all the rest of the guidelines Terri used.
I wasn't expecting my list to get an airing in the group so I'll make sure I'm 100% happy with it and post it after Darcy!

I look forward to your list Darcy. It will be interesting what books are the same on the 3 lists. :)