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Ann wrote: "You must take your time outlining or you will have lots of rewrites to do and your story can lose its focus and become like Swiss cheese; full of plot holes or convolted. That's the only one I ca..."
Count me among those who don't outline -- because outlining stifles me and writing becomes such a paint-by-numbers chore for me that I can't do it. I know it works for a lot of people, and that's great, but it doesn't work for me. I'll pants my way through it and fill in holes in revisions... at least then, I actually manage to write something.
Mod
Same here. I keep an outline in my head, but it is ever changing. When I start a story I know where I want it to go and some of the key points to get there. Winging the rest of it keeps it interesting and often times ends with a story with twists I had not thought of originally.
Thank you for this thread. I am an aspiring author and was going to make a thread about plotting your novel vs write as you go. I see plus sides of both and that is what I struggle with. I am still writing my first actual novel and when I started I had so many ideas on what I wanted to happen in the story but no idea as to where I wanted them to go so I just wrote them down and placed them aside so I wouldn't forget them later on. Then I sat down and started writing from the beginning. I have read so many things about plotting your story before you write. So I am still debating if I should plot or not lol
I find that the best way is to outline it before you start, and make a short journal as you go to reference, to keep anachronisms out. Like so:
Chapter 1-UFO Crash at Navajo Nations. July 5, 1959
Page 9 about nine am. UFO crashed on Navajo land.
Page 13 about nine am. Ben finds the alien vessel
Page 17 three pm. Sergeant Roanhorse of the NTP investigates the crash site.
This helps you see the progression of things and make sure you don't get out of whack with timelines and the order of events.
Chapter 1-UFO Crash at Navajo Nations. July 5, 1959
Page 9 about nine am. UFO crashed on Navajo land.
Page 13 about nine am. Ben finds the alien vessel
Page 17 three pm. Sergeant Roanhorse of the NTP investigates the crash site.
This helps you see the progression of things and make sure you don't get out of whack with timelines and the order of events.
I've never outlined!I just published a book and am very happy with it. That said, I revised it numerous times--perhaps because I did not outline, but the story and its themes changed so much over time that I couldn't have been held to an outline. I think if you really know what you're doing, then an outline most likely works, but if you're just writing and trying to figure out what happens, you need to just write and see what happens!
Charles wrote: "I'm a subscriber of #11, but it is by no means a hard and fast rule. I do suggest it to people that are starting out and having trouble figuring out where to go and what to do.So many things have..."
I agree with much that Charles wrote here. Especially packing the story to the gills with juicy stuff because you outlined first. It gives a chance for fortuitous associations that may have taken you several drafts to get to without an outline, or may never have occurred to you. My current novel-in-progress draft/outline is more of a dance between the writing and the outline and having to pare away a treasure trove of plot options rather than having to deal with a petering out trail. The later happening sometimes when you focus more on character first and plot second, instead of intermingling them from the get-go.
My life doesn't follow an outline; most of life doesn't. Neither does my writing. I believe that whatever works for you, works for you. I was asked to teach a writing class and I turned the offer down because I would be teaching budding authors how to write like me and I'm the only person who can write like me. The best advice I can give anyone is just sit down and write and use whatever tools work for you.
Sam wrote: "Took me ages to make corrections - even with find and replace because it doesn't recognize the difference..."A lot of programs that won't recognize subtle differences will do so if you use the ASCII or HTML CODES. Tables listing these are available on the web.
For example, straight quotes, left quotes and right quotes are all different codes.
A lot of programs will in fact allow global changes if you just find the right way to ask for one. It's not 100% but it can be a real timesaver if it works.
Another option is to copy your text into a program that will allow the global change --make your global-- then copy everything back. This is also much, much faster than any manual change on a large amount of text.
agree with #10 so much! Me personally I seem to suffer from what I call "writer's blindness" - wherein I simply cannot see those tiny little word errors such as "the the" or missing words (eg "he opened door"). My brain just seems to fill in the blanks!Getting a few cold readers is like gold dust and really helps spot all kinds of issues we just don't see....
I love that this a great thread! Keep it up! "I can only hope my sales impact my taxes... " Great quote!
Ellen "My life doesn't follow an outline;"
I'm curious. Do you ever get to the end and find the pieces don't work? What I mean is this: That people were doing or saying things that were out of order, like for instance, drive their new truck to the store a week before they bought the truck? ...or gone shopping to a place that you are still building three chapters ahead? Or a girl dating a guy that is still serving overseas and is not in town?
Do you ever run into stuff like that?
I'm curious. Do you ever get to the end and find the pieces don't work? What I mean is this: That people were doing or saying things that were out of order, like for instance, drive their new truck to the store a week before they bought the truck? ...or gone shopping to a place that you are still building three chapters ahead? Or a girl dating a guy that is still serving overseas and is not in town?
Do you ever run into stuff like that?
Mod
Cue Twilight Zone music.
As for outlines, I have tried with and without, and I think now having an outline definitely helps. I fill a page with the story overall, then pick out points that are major scenes and outline those. I keep that page on my desk while I write that first draft. Lots of pink, blue, orange, and green pen additions on both columns as ideas develop, but I don't lose track of the main overall story line that way. Thank you everyone for the awesome tips! I have much yet to learn!
I ran into something weird to look out for. I uploaded my PDF to Create Space, 312 pages, but CS says 320. I find some places in the book where they break the page where they shouldn't have. So... I am having to go back, make it look like it will have to to satisfy CS proofreading step, then, oh yes, change the numbers on my TOC.
WOW I use Createspace and have not run into this problem, but will definite watch for it! Thanks you for the heads up.
M.S. wrote: "agree with #10 so much! Me personally I seem to suffer from what I call "writer's blindness" - wherein I simply cannot see those tiny little word errors such as "the the" or missing words (eg "he o..."Glad I am not alone in this. Have been editing my new book and every time I go through it, I find another one of those little things.
I found this scripting handy for Word users:Use <[A-Z][a-z]{2,}> for searching for a capped word followed by two lower case letters - in advanced search/find only and with wildcard checked. For, example: If looking for "And" or "But" you can just use [A-B], etc.
I used this once to make sure I was using appropriate commas when starting a sentence with And,... or But... etc.
There are so many tricks in Word, but you have to dig deep to find them. A basic Google search actually helped me to find this one.
D.C. wrote: "I found this scripting handy for Word users:Use for searching for a capped word followed by two lower case letters - in advanced search/find only and with wildcard checked. For, example: If look..."
This is so useful! I never realized Word had this facility.
By the way, whenever I find 'And' or 'But' at the beginning of a sentence, I just remove it. The meaning rarely changes (I might have to fix it up a little) and it seems a little tighter writing...
I'm not suggesting anybody else does that, just mentioning it for interest.
Chris wrote: "D.C. wrote: "I found this scripting handy for Word users:Use for searching for a capped word followed by two lower case letters - in advanced search/find only and with wildcard checked. For, exam..."
It's good advice.
I do find it in my dialogue, however. When two characters are bantering back and forth, etc.
There's an article in the Guardian today about writer's pain of hindsight. Thought-provoking in that it might help others with their angst about what they've written and how to move on. http://www.theguardian.com/books/book...
D.C. wrote: "It's good advice.I do find it in my dialogue, however. When two characters are bantering back and forth, etc. "
Absolutely!
Wow! Thanks to you all for sharing!The big thing I'm working on now is building an email list. I'd been hearing about it on podcasts for months but didn't get around to it this week. Sounds to me like it's one of the first things a new author should get set up as it can lead to a lot of future sales, beta readers, street teams, and ARCs.
D.C. wrote: "Chris wrote: "D.C. wrote: "I found this scripting handy for Word users:Use for searching for a capped word followed by two lower case letters - in advanced search/find only and with wildcard chec..."
Thank you for your link. I checked out the guardian on your link. And also found something interesting:
Author Allison Stieger chooses book at the online giant’s new bricks-and-mortar store – then buys it from an indie bookseller. What great support for indie authors.
I would add to never trade reviews with another author. It is the quickest way to destroy objectivity.
I have two pieces of input here1. Morris- I have the same problem with CS. There are page breaks of blank pages that I have not entered. I have to just let it go.
2. Regarding outlines and pantsing, I do both. I have been using free mindmapping software to organize, I like it because it is so easy to move ideas around yet gives me a timeline.
Along the same lines, I have a spreadsheet for completed novels that gives me a timeline and all the characters. I like to make relatives appear in my books from other books.
I also put things I want to remember to add to the book at the top of my manuscript on the first chapter. For example, Christmas cookies and recipe, I put that at the top of ch 1 but right now I am only in May in the book. As I add the Christmas cookies I will delete the note. This is especially helpful if I am writing and get sleepy, so I don't lose my train of thought.
If I could re-write my novel, I would pay more attention to headers and footers... in one of my books (paperback), the title is a faded-grey color but the page number is black. Didn't notice until it was too late. Whoops.
I think it would be nice to write a novel that is justified-text because I like the way it looks. I tried to reformat my old book that way, but it was so frustrating I got fed up and quit.
One day, maybe.
I think it would be nice to write a novel that is justified-text because I like the way it looks. I tried to reformat my old book that way, but it was so frustrating I got fed up and quit.
One day, maybe.
Morris wrote: "Robert "All of this is true, but let's not overstate the case. I've had more than one person warn me about "copyright infringement" in the first chapter of my book. My characters watch Disney's Mul..."What about using actual restaurants and other meeting places?
Couple of thoughts:1. I think the outlining decision is often dictated by the type and genre of book you are writing. My current project is a murder suspense, and I've outlined the heck out of it, to keep track of all the twists, red herrings, background and possible motivations for suspects, etc.
2. On the weird page breaks in CS, did you format your final copy in Word before uploading, putting the actual page break commands where you want breaks (and nowhere else?)
And...and new problem I haven't seen mentioned. When you format your Word manuscript, mark it as "Mirror page/Justified" do you have an easy fix for the extra spaces inserted? I went through 6 revisions in Create Space, fixing those spaces. I even rewrote sections to make it fit better. Suggestions of an easier way?
Mod
There are factors to consider, but in a nutshell as long as you're not saying anything to cast a negative light on the restaurant, you're probably fine.
"Biff and Janet went to Red Lobster for Biff's retirement party." Fine.
"Everyone called in today due to eating tainted shrimp at the retirement party last night. Poor Biff is in the hospital. When will people learn not to eat at Red Lobster?" Not so fine.
#5 Is such a challenge for me. I don't know why!!!!
I love the different approaches you all have. I can't do outlines, but I summarize every chapter after I write it so I can get a quick look at where the story is going and what I have plotted. Keeps me on track.Happy writing everyone!
Amen to that!