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Faust, First Part
Faust I & II - Faust 2013
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Discussion - Week One - Faust Part One - p. 3 - 62
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I like this new Hamlet-like Faust with his over-thinking, melancholia, and suicidal tendencies. I also like the interplay between him and Mephistopheles, they seem to have a much more complex relationship than in Marlowe. I also like the non-traditional direction it's going, with Faust's rewriting of the bible to emphasis action over belief (Barbara, I'm thinking you appreciate this change as well?)I'm guessing some of those long, poetic passages get edited down for actual productions.
Whitney wrote: "I like this new Hamlet-like Faust with his over-thinking, melancholia, and suicidal tendencies. I also like the interplay between him and Mephistopheles, they seem to have a much more complex relat..."Whitney, your post is EXACTLY the way I feel about Goethe's Faust. And I LOVE that you refer to it as "Hamlet-like" -- Hamlet definitely came to my mind quite often while reading this.
So, YES, I definitely appreciate this change.
There's so much more I want to write, but I need to finish a project which is due tomorrow, so I will be back tomorrow night (hopefully) with more thoughts on Goethe's Faust, which I am thoroughly enjoying.
The poetry is wonderful. I love the writing, but some of the soliloquies are VERY long. Too long?? What do the rest of you think?? Shakespeare has many VERY long soliloquies in many of his best plays, but I can't say that any of the really long ones in Hamlet or King Lear (or some of the other tragedies) are too long. They were worthy of the length.So are these long soliloquies worthy of the length? I have to be honest -- I think some are a bit too long. Again, I love the writing and the poetry, but I think the lengthy monologues are a bit too much at times.
I'm confused about the Dedication at the beginning of the play. It seems to be in Faust's voice. Am I missing something about the Dedication??
Also, I'm a bit confused about the signing of the contract. On line 1728, Faust says "The word dies when we seize the pen..." which leads me to believe that he does not want to sign a contract. Mephisto tells him, a few lines later, "...with a drop of blood you sign your name." Then Faust says "If you are sure you like this game, Let it be done to humor you." But there is nothing said (or mentioned in the Stage Directions) that Faust actually does sign the contract. Again, did I miss something here???
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I confess I was not happy to discover the rhyming verse when I began reading. I've been spending my time trying to rhyme the line endings and have lost the story as a result. The soliloquies do go on a bit longer than necessary. Goethe is more interested in poetry more than stagecraft. Nothing wrong with that, per se. We just need to shift our appreciation to the sound of the poetry and keep Shakespeare out of our minds while we're listening.
Yes, the contract signing is a bit ambiguous, but again, Goethe is interested more in language than in the simple act of signing a contract - even if it is (or should be) a significant plot point.
At this point, I'm thinking it would be useful to listen to an audio version and read along, but would have to find matching translations.
BTW, the poetry is marvelous and I'm kicking myself for not pursuing German after high school. Ich bin ein dummer Kopf!
Jim, I was so terrified of German that I switched majors (I would have needed German as well as French) & I kick myself over that decision!I'm very much wishing I could listen to a recording that went along with the translation.
Jim & Ellie, When I was at a previous job I had to go to a convention in Frankfurt every year, and I'd say I was probably there around 13 or 14 times, for at least a week each time.I never studied German in school, but while I was there (even though it was only a week each time) I found a lot of words and phrases very easy to pick up. I've forgotten most of it now because I haven't been back to Germany in around ten years.
It's never too late to learn a new language. You're both very smart, and if you took an online course or bought some of the language courses in audio format I wouldn't be surprise if you learned German pretty quickly. I find it to be a very interesting language.
Jim, the poetry really is marvelous, which is the reason I'm enjoying it so much. As far as the story, it does pick up and become more of a "story" in the second half of part one (which we're discussing next week.) That's how I feel, but I guess I'll have to wait until next week to see if the rest of you agree with me.SO, basically I am to assume that the contract WAS signed in blood??? If so, it was very, very ambiguous.
Also, I'm wondering why Mephisto has not taken Faust on a "ride through the universe" yet. Wasn't that the reason Faust conjured the devil in the first place? (Or did I miss something else???)
Mod
I'm guessing that since the story is told in two plays, the scenes may stretch out a bit, and so maybe the ride through the universe will come in Part 2.
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I never studie..."
My father-in-law was sent to Nuremberg as a "guest" laborer during the war from 1942-45. He occasionally uses German words and phrases with me, since he doesn't know any English. We don't exactly converse in German, but it helps us communicate when my limited French fails us.
I'd really like to read Rilke's Duino Elegies in German, so maybe this is the year to regain the language. I'm also going to look for one of those dual-language versions of Faust so I can better appreciate Goethe's masterpiece.
Barbara wrote: "Jim & Ellie, When I was at a previous job I had to go to a convention in Frankfurt every year, and I'd say I was probably there around 13 or 14 times, for at least a week each time.I never studie..."
You know, I'm very tempted-at least to get a reading knowledge of German. Rilke's Duino Elegies actually changed my life-I was a freshman in college when I stumbled across Rilke & it was a stunning experience. I felt an almost physical sensation of movement from working class to...something else. To the possibility of everything. It felt magical.
I continue to reread the Elegies-I have a duel-language edition & sometimes I try to read the German just to get some sense of the original.
Anyway, thanks for the idea.
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I continue to reread the Elegies-I have a duel-language edition & sometimes I try to read the German just to get some sense of the original.
Anyway, thanks for the idea...."
There's something mystical-magical-transcendent in those poems for sure! Can you add a link to the dual-language edition if it's here on GR?
I couldn't find it on GR but I believe it's the Norton edition. I'll look when I get home (but we just moved so it may/may not be unpacked as yet)
Mod
Don't worry about finding it. I'll look at Norton's site.
Edit: It's this one - Duino Elegies
Way late to the discussion, but I'm seeing Milton easily in the early section, granted its cited in the Norton critical, but something of the wager had a "better to reign in hell then serve in heaven" tone for me.Also, the rhyme isn't quite as bothersome for me. There seems to be an interesting dynamic between Faust and Mephistopheles here too.
I do see the Hamlet connection, although I see it as in IJ connection, coming fresh off that book, and given the whole collegiate atmosphere.
Mephistopheles is the perfect college counselor. Where were his hours when I was deciding majors?
Oh thanks for the suggestion on the Rilke. I recently found out I was more German than previously led to believe. So all this German lit has added meaning for me.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Duino Elegies (other topics)Duino Elegies (other topics)
Dedication, Prelude, and Prologue, pp. 3 – 11, lines 1 – 353
The Tragedy’s First Part. ‘Night’, p. 12, line 354, through ‘Auerbach’s Tavern in Leipzig’, ends on p. 62, line 2336
And so with Goethe we are right away into a deeper exploration of Faust. Written in rhyming verse, Faust’s story is immediately more complex. Goethe takes the original legend and enhances the story to create poetry where before there was simple reporting.