Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion
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no feedback at this time... just getting adjusted to the group at this time.
Swords and seniors? Sounds a bit flippant, maybe, but right now I'm reading Khlit (Swords of the Steppes), and finding him an enjoyable contrast to all those naive youths on quests; I'd been feeling a bit jaded by them lately. Of course, Khlit is swords without sorcery. However, he's not the only older hero out there - Enge's Morlock in the earlier standalone novels is a more modern example (never forgetting Cohen the Barbarian, especially in The Last Hero). Are there more older S&S heroes to be found throughout the genre's history, and might that be an interesting theme to use at some point?
Mod
Nice addition, K.V. Gemmell's Druss (Legend) comes to mind too. Might be appropriate too with Arnold Schwarzenegger returning soon as an aged Conan. Assuming we do a "Sword and ___" poll, "Seniors" will be on the list for sure.
I like the two-month window, and I think the sooner we pick a book or theme the better so we can hit March running. I would like to suggest the Ramsey Campbell "Far Away and Never" as a group read, because several of us bought it and because I think Campbell wrote damned good sword-and-sorcery.
Mod
Steve, good point about Far Away & Never being a hot topic here (stemming from the Anthology discussions). Certainly a bunch of us now have Campbell's work in our to-read queue.
To all,
Any thoughts about simultaneous group reads? i.e. two topics? Perhaps for Mar-Apr we could try having two run at once:
1) A thematic one--its topic focused by a poll
2) A suggested specific author/book--based on current discussions
I share K.V.'s pain about much of today's fantasy. If it's not about some princess forced to marry against her will, while secretly in love with the stable boy who sets out to defeat the evil Knoblord, then it's about some emasculated hero forced to choose between good mommy and the evil daddy he never met. Or something like that...Anyway, I put in a vote for Gemmel's 'Legend'. This book, more than most fantasy, left a lasting impression on me. And I won't deny that much of it has to do with my age and the aches and pains that come with it. I sympathize with Druss.
Mod
Ralph, Bruce, and K.V... all recommend the "Sword and Senior" theme (before any official poll!). Great feedback.
I'm still feeling my way, fascinated by the process. jem
Mod
I'd personally want to read more Sword & Soul books (The Trail of Bohu and Ki-Khanga: The Anthology) as well as Sword Noir books (finishing Mad Shadows: The Weird Tales of Dorgo the Dowser and The Sword-Edged Blonde).
Mod
This is helpful. It seems that the "Sword & ______" theme choices resonate. We can poll for these easily enough (and rotate through them).
So far, any of the above sound good to me, including items 2-4 in the OP...which isn't much help in making a determination, I admit.
I wonder if we should be careful to make sure that, say, every other group read at least is a book widely available in an ebook edition for our international members that might have a really tough time (and some considerable expense) getting a hold of something like Campbell's Ryre anthology, or even older s&s paperbacks that may not have even have editions outside the US print runs.
Mod
Bill, good point. Certainly, the "thematic option" of the group-read is available to all. The "specific option" is one we are just trying, and is not meant to be restrictive. Though this initial process revealed your observation about global book availability (ugh). We'll do our best, but we'll have rely on members abroad to give us feedback. Actually, there has been some requests to read The Bones of the Old Ones in a few months (it is not available in the UK until August; not sure about other countries)--being a new release it may have better reach.
All, feel welcome to comment in this thread or write to Periklis or to me directly with future group reads.
Mod
Anything is good. I wouldn't mind reading something current (i.e. written within the last ten years) if anyone has any ideas.Here are a couple that look interesting:
As for older work, perhaps:
Mod
I'd love to see us do an Imaro group read at some point, the Night Shade edition isn't hard to find.
I've gone on and on about how good these books are elsewhere (and how shabbily they were treated by publishers), but I'll just say again that Saunders is a first rank writer of adventure fantasy, and his name should be mentioned in the same breath as Moorcock, Leiber, Howard, Vance, and Wagner.
Sadly, he just isn't widely read.
I've gone on and on about how good these books are elsewhere (and how shabbily they were treated by publishers), but I'll just say again that Saunders is a first rank writer of adventure fantasy, and his name should be mentioned in the same breath as Moorcock, Leiber, Howard, Vance, and Wagner.
Sadly, he just isn't widely read.
err, actually looking at Amazon the first Imaro might be pretty hard to get a hold of. With Night Shade tanking maybe we'll see a Sword & Soul edition in the future to match the rest of the series.
And there's always ebay.
And there's always ebay.
Mod
Bill, another good suggestion. The Sword and Soul sub-genre has had some interest here previously, but neve made it to a group-read. I will add it to the survey options again.
I am game to re-read Imaro. I only have the first book, but it's been signed by Charles himself, and is one of my most prized books. Hope to collect the rest of the series one day.
Mod
Mod
BTW: Our first Poll/Groupread was in Dec 2012, so this next round will be our ~1yr anniversary of group-reads. Back then, membership was closer to 40 people, and our numbers are over 200 now. Thanks again to Periklis who got this all started.
All of previous polls have been group-read centric. It is interesting to browse past topics. Perhaps there is one that never made it that you would like to re-suggest? Here is the link to the Polls: http://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/80...
1 yr anniversary -- how about Conan?
Primary recommendation:If it's our 1 year anniversary, might I suggest the second annual anthology group read to celebrate?
Secondary Recommendation:
It's winter! Are there any sword and sorcery book that take place in a winter setting? Just a quick Google search came up with something like Winter Witch which I know nothing about, of course there's a short tale written by some Howard guy called Conan, Vol. 1: The Frost Giant's Daughter and Other Stories (this one is the graphic novel adaptation). Problem is, I don't think TFGD is meaty enough for the book read.
Tertiary Recommendation:
Karl Edward Wagner's Kane. I have never read it and want to one day.
Quaternary Recommendation:
Sequel loving! Read a sequel (i.e. not the first book), of any series. This is cool because then we can even continue on with some of the new series we have been introduced to already through the group reads.
Senary Recommendation:
Gonji: Red Blade from the East as I've seen discussions about it here and it has peaked my interest.
Mod
Oh wow, first group anniversary? Thank you for keeping this going Seth and especially for creating and managing the most interesting feature of the group, Group Reads.
As for suggestions, I'd choose (1) each participant's personal favorite (for example, a book written by Karl Edward Wagner) and (2) a genre "classic" or "a perfect hook" (a title that you'd suggest to a newcomer into the genre), probably something by Howard or an anthology. I'd pick Swords Against Darkness although we've already discussed this on our first group read.
Well, I'm a huge fan of Wagner, and Kane is the ultimate bad-ass. And 'Reflections on the Winter of my Soul' is a good, wintery werewolf tale! I also think Gonji deserves a read, and I have never read one yet.
Or maybe something by David C Smith, like Oron.
Or, something more obscure; say, the Berserker series by Chris Carlsen.
The list is endless ...
Mod
I'll keep listening, but with this we now have enough to populate a good poll. Expect a poll in a few days.
Thanks!
Can't wait to make another Masthead/banner!
I can't believe I forgot this guy; Keith Taylor. His Bard series is some of the best S&S I have ever read. Set in dark ages Britain, it has a very historically accurate feel mixed with magic, sorcery and dark horror. Gritty and violent, this is very good stuff, written by one of the greatest living S&S writers around!
Sean wrote: "Primary recommendation:If it's our 1 year anniversary, might I suggest the second annual anthology group read to celebrate?
Secondary Recommendation:
It's winter! Are there any sword and sorce..."
Hey, Sean!
Thanks for the consideration that you and your immediate group might pick up on my GONJI Series, which is now in re-issue from Borgo Press in paper and Kindle. The "Deathwind Trilogy" that opens the series is available now. Two more stand-alone books in the series are impending (FORTRESS OF LOST WORLDS and A HUNGERING OF WOLVES).
I'm trying to rebuild my cred after a long period of having drifted out of the genre. It's a strange feeling, as Gonji was quite successful in its Zebra Books editions, back in the 1980s---this, despite the fact that they were packaged NOT as heroic fantasy (which they are) but rather as Historical Adventure (which they are only in an alt-history sense!).
And hey---also please do check out the works of Karl Edward Wagner, which are de rigueur, if you favor this genre. I suggest you begin with the collection DEATH ANGEL'S SHADOW. I have a special fondness for that collection of Kane stories because it provided me with a "Eureka!" moment that catapulted me headlong into the creation of the Gonji series!
Yes, I had my series character (a half-breed samurai/Viking) and his bizarre adventures in a weird version of 16th-century Europe (and into parallel worlds beyond) exhaustively planned and simmering in my imagination, and in extensive notes, for a long time. What Karl Wagner did was solve the final problem I had been tussling with: the questions of TONE, VOICE and IDIOM.
With the tales in DAS, Karl showed that you could successfully, authoritatively write of medieval times without heavily resorting to gadzookery---those ancient forms of colloquial language some find validating, while others just see them as tedious and off-puttingly convoluted---forsooth! Wagner displayed a nice conversational tone that WORKED, the way he did it. I chose my own, but reading him enabled a sense of freedom, whereas I had been feeling strangled a little by a lot of vintage fantasy that seemed revered.
I later included Wagner in the dedication in one of the Gonji books.
Happy reading, and please do let me know what you think, for better or worse!
***
Ahhh---WINTER-set fantasy!
Someone has already noted Karl Wagner's "Reflections for the Winter of My Soul"---a classic, in that DEATH ANGEL'S SHADOW collection. And let me self-servingly add that the fourth Gonji book (FORTRESS OF LOST WORLDS) begins in a Pyrenees winter, which has a great bearing on the actions. "Reflections" is my favorite Kane tale, and FORTRESS is the book I dedicated to Wagner. The fifth Gonji book, A HUNGERING OF WOLVES, features a huge battle, fought in a killing snowstorm, between human and monstrous forces.
Perceptive readers will also pick up on a certain homage to Wagner in FORTRESS OF LOST WORLDS' supernatural variation on a band of assassins that appears in another story in that Kane collection.
Many thanks for your thoughtfulness. I know there's an overwhelming amount of material out there to choose from!
S.wagenaar wrote: "Well, I'm a huge fan of Wagner, and Kane is the ultimate bad-ass. And 'Reflections on the Winter of my Soul' is a good, wintery werewolf tale! I also think Gonji deserves a read, and I have never ..."
Thank you, also, for the consideration of picking up on my GONJI series with your reading group!
I can assure something..."different," as so many readers have advised over the years. Shorthand? Think...Solomon Kane, but on a bigger canvas, much deeper character schemes, and more monsters!
Other than that, it's hard to distill into a tagline Gonji's adventures during his life-quest, which is both frustratingly opaque to him and forbidden by mysterious powers seeking to first discredit and then destroy him. Bit by bit, tale by tale, he (and the reader) comes to piece together the shocking truth of the enormity of the task Destiny has set him, as a sort of "Millennial Singularity"---a warrior sent as a course correction to an interspheric system of worlds enslaved by tyranny.
But apart from the opening trilogy, the stories stand alone.
Hey T.C., I have Red Blade from the East on my shelf now, and I look forward to reading it. Good to have you back in the S&S game!
Thanks! Please, call me Ted! If you have any questions, observations, etc. don't hesitate to contact me---here, on Facebook, wherever! And there is also a Gonji Fictional Character FB page.
I'm pretty new to facebook , so I will check it out. Thanks for the heads up Ted!
Mod
Times are busy with the end of year Holidays cranking into full gear, but for those of you still listening I thought I'd ask for some ideas for the subsequent group read (i.e. one that would start Jan 1st 2014..and run through end-Feb-2014).
My inclination is to push for the below two ideas:
1) Anthologies: as Sean mentioned in this thread, it would be nice to revisit our January 2013 inaugural group read by repeating this theme. This subgenre has its share of anthologies.
2) Any new book or new release: Fitting for the new year ("new" could arguably mean (re)published since ~2010).
Would be nice to have a third option to stir up a vote.
Thoughts?
Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy"
Books mentioned in this topic
Swords Against Darkness (other topics)Conan, Vol. 1: The Frost Giant's Daughter and Other Stories (other topics)
Pathfinder Tales: Winter Witch (other topics)
Gonji: Red Blade from the East (other topics)
Jane Carver of Waar (other topics)
More...
Pilot Group Read Interim Status: Our inaugural group read is still in progress (Link to 2013 Jan-Feb Anthology Theme Group Read…ends Feb. 2013); so we are ~half way through. Of course, the intent is to not strictly close this Anthology topic come Mar 1st, but merely to phase in a new theme at that time. Given the amount of discussion and engagement, this seems to be working well. Many members are finding “new” characters and authors to explore (some of those are authors in this group). Several side-discussions are spawning too. A few books disappointed, but when exploring new books that’ll happen.
Duration: Two months still seems to be an appropriate duration to allow members to get one (buy/lend/use-library/etc.), read it, and discuss it. So the next one would be Mar-April 2013…unless members desire something else. Agree? I could be persuaded to try a "1" month interval.
Themes vs. specific books At some point we may want to poll for a specific book, but given the number of members, I would still push for a thematic group read. Before a Poll is sent out for the next theme, please steer the general topic by commenting on these possible topics (i.e. each topic would become a Poll..and members would focus the topic by responding):
1) ”Sword and _____” ; Members could respond by selecting fill-in-the-blank answers (i.e. Soul, Planet, Sandal, etc.)
2) “Anything from the era of _____” Members could respond by selecting fill-in-the-blank answers (<1950’s, 1970’s, 1980s, or anything new > 2010)
3) Anything with cover art by ____” Members could respond by selecting fill-in-the-blank answers (Frazetta, Whelan, Kelly, Brom, Royo, Elmore, etc.)
4) “Populate Under-rated S&S Books Profiles” : Aimed at populating our genre’s books, read any under-reviewed or under-rated book in the library (this could be a new release, or an out-of-print one that has sparse information on its GR profile. Clearly, any book with zero reviews would qualify. Otherwise, we could suggest some guidelines. Not sure of the Poll question exactly for this, but I liked the notion of advocating S&S books and enhancing their presence online.
Bookshelf: We'll continue to have folders in the group's bookshelf when appropriate to guide participants.
Banner Image: We’ll try to come up with engaging montages each time, while continuing to credit the authors and books.
Any thoughts?