J.R.R. Tolkien

[Brandybuck]

I've always thought of J.R.R. Tolkien as nothing less than a genius in the literary world of fantasy. For that reason, I thought he deserved his very own thread in this forum. So, here's a place where everyone can gush over Tolkien and his epic stories, worlds, and characters.

[DavidO]

Probably just didn't have one because there's not much new to talk about.

[Brandybuck]

When it comes to Tolkien, there's always something to talk about. As so-called nerdy as it sounds, my dad and I have had plenty of prolonged debates on Tolkien's works. So, let me just throw out a couple potential Tolkien topics to get the ball rolling...

First of all, would you even call yourself a fan of Tolkien? If not, that's perfectly fine. Even I'll admit that Tolkien gets rather long-winded at times, and I know plenty of people who do not enjoy his works because of it. I myself am a fan, thanks to my dad, who is a lifelong Tolkien fan. In fact, when I was a child my family had a pet bird that my dad named Pippin (named after Peregrin "Pippin" Took), as well as two cats my dad named Sammy (named after Samwise Gamgee) and Rosie (named after Rose Cotton).

And, if you are a Tolkien fan, I always feel compelled to ask: Which do you enjoy reading more, The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings? Why?

Has anyone read any of Tolkien's lesser-known short stories, such as "Farmer Giles of Ham" and "Smith of Wootton Major"?

[Prue]

Read them all. Loved them all, even Tree and Leaf and The Father Christmas Letters. Love his illustrations, but do think The Silmarillion lacked something, not sure what. Carried LOTR right round Asia on a holiday in the 1970's.

Tolkein's ability to world-build is iconic and as a fantasy writer, I find him a complete inspiration in so many areas. Not the least of which is reciting a ballad! I also think that in many ways he singlehandedly re-configured the artform of fantasy writing.

Suggest people seek out In Defence of Fantasy by Ann Swinfen.

In Defence of Fantasy: A Study of the Genre in English and American Literature Since 1945

[Nichelle]

OBSESSED with this man and his works. That is all. :)

[Nichelle]

I have read at least, at LEAST 1,000 books in my life and there are only 2 books I have read twice and one is The Hobbit. So that I prefer over The Lord of the Rings. I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps because to me it seems more jovial and innocent compared to LOTR. The Hobbit makes me happy where LOTR gets me excited. I WILL get my hands on more Tolkien works someday. I love his stories. :)

[Grateful]

I'm obsessed with him myself. The Hobbit all tough a children's book is my favorite book. I just love the way it flows. I loved Tree & Leaf, Bilbo's Last Song (poem made into a children's picture book) and the Lord of the Rings books. I am just about to start on The Silmarillion and although I have heard mixed reviews from Tolkien fans I am looking forward to it.

[Brenda ╰☆╮]

Tolkien....was my first......



Fantasy love.
The Hobbit, read to me at my fathers knee, fascinated me as a child.

When I was old enough to read myself, I found that I liked Lord of the Rings best.

[Elise]

I tried to read LOTR many times, but could never get into it. It was too overly descriptive for me. I love The Hobbit though. I also read Farmer Giles of Ham for a sci-fi class in high school. I liked that one. I also got a hardcover copy of Roverandom sitting in my room. I couldn't resist getting it as a collector's item. It looks pretty cute anyway. Maybe I don't mind Tolkien, just for his stories aimed at younger audiences.

[Maggie]

also the Tolkien's Lost Tales, Tolkien's Middle Earth The Lays of Beleriand Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-EarthThe Book of Lost Tales, Part One...I read everything I could get my hands on!

[Ana]

i haven't read anything written by Tolkien but i have on my tbr list for this year the hobbit and lord of the rings

[Joseph]

Maggie wrote: "also the Tolkien's Lost Tales, Tolkien's Middle Earth The Lays of Beleriand Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-EarthThe Book of Lost Tales, Part One...I read everything I could get my hands on!"

Never quite had the gumption to start reading the History of Middle-earth stuff. I did order from Amazon.uk a lovely three-volume hardcover set of all 10? 12? History of Middle-earth books, but they're just so big and unwieldy -- I'd love an eBook version except I don't know how well that would represent the illustrations.

[Brandybuck]

Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "Tolkien....was my first......



Fantasy love.
The Hobbit, read to me at my fathers knee, fascinated me as a child.

When I was old enough to read myself, I found that I liked Lord of the Rings best."

That's pretty much how it went for me. My dad read The Hobbit to me when I was only four or five years old, and I fell in love with it then. A number of years later I read it for myself and still loved it, and then I read The Lord of the Rings and found it absolutely captivating as well.

I'm curious: What are everyone's thoughts on the movies based on The Lord of the Rings? How about the recently released movie based on The Hobbit? If you've seen the movies, did you enjoy them? Do you think the movies do the books justice?

[Joseph]

Brandybuck wrote: " If you've seen the movies, did you enjoy them? Do you think the movies do the books justice?"

Yes and ... it's complicated. There are things I think the movies did very, very, very well, and there are other things they did (Faramir, I'm looking at you!) that I strongly disapprove of. There's a reason why I didn't want to go back and reread The Hobbit until after I'd seen the movie.

[Brandybuck]

Joseph wrote: "Yes and ... it's complicated. There are things I think the movies did very, very, very well, and there are other things they did (Faramir, I'm looking at you!) that I strongly disapprove of."

I agree. Although I did enjoy the movies to an extent, I just personally don't think they did many of the characters justice. Faramir was always one of my favorite characters in the books, a very noble character; but, like you, I did not think Faramir was portrayed well in the movies. I also just couldn't help but think that the movie version of Frodo was a bit off. And, in my opinion, Merry and Pippin -- two of my absolute favorite Tolkien characters -- simply did not get their characters duly fleshed out in the movies.

[K.A.]

I thought the Fellowship was done pretty well in the movies, but the last one - terrible. The unbelievable battle scenes with Legolas and Gimli and the way they made Gimli into some sort of comedic relief really bugged me. I also missed some of what was left out.

Which reminds me: I was surprised not to see any mention of the being that became Tom Bombadil in the Silmarillion, unless I missed it. Gandalf refers to him in LOTR as being extremely old, but I can't remember if he's given another name as well. Any thoughts/memories of that? I was always fascinated by Bombadil.

[Grateful]

I enjoyed all the movies I wasn't offended by anything they changed or left out as we all know things need to be changed to translate well into film. I loved the comedic value of Gimli and Legolas they gave light relief to the horror of battle and what could befall middle earth if Frodo and Sam where unsuccessful in the task at hand. I never like Tom Bombadil so I was happy he never made the cut.

[Joseph]

K.A. wrote: "Which reminds me: I was surprised not to see any mention of the being that became Tom Bombadil in the Silmarillion, unless I missed it. Gandalf refers to him in LOTR as being extremely old, but I can't remember if he's given another name as well. Any thoughts/memories of that? I was always fascinated by Bombadil."

I just finished rereading The Silmarillion and I didn't see any mention of Bombadil. I assume Tolkien might have eventually planned to go in and incorporate him somewhere but never got around to it (unless there's something somewhere in one of the History of Middle-earth books). I want to say I remember someone in LotR giving him an alternate name -- maybe Elrond or Treebeard or someone was reminiscing? -- but I wasn't able to find a specific reference in my not-very-exhaustive search.

[Brandybuck]

K.A. wrote: "I was surprised not to see any mention of the being that became Tom Bombadil in the Silmarillion, unless I missed it. Gandalf refers to him in LOTR as being extremely old, but I can't remember if he's given another name as well. Any thoughts/memories of that? I was always fascinated by Bombadil."

Tom Bombadil. Yes, he always fascinated me as well. I don't remember him being specifically mentioned in The Silmarillion. I looked him up in my Middle-earth dictionary and it hints that his race and origins are never directly specified but that he is possibly of the Maia beings mentioned in The Silmarillion. Although I know movies based on books do have to cut certain scenes and characters in order to fit time constraints and the like, I was still a bit displeased that they didn't even allude to Tom Bombadil's existence in The Lord of the Rings movies.

[~ Celeste ~]

I am most definitely a Tolkien fan. What most people criticize him for is probably what I love best. I feel as a reader that I know the world as clearly as he does. The Hobbit is more "innocent" and the Lord of the Rings is darker. I prefer Lord of the Rings. I have yet to read other works by him, but it is on my list.

[Alyssa]

Yes I am definitely a Tolkien fan. People often dislike him, but I think it's more because of how many Tolkien clones there are out there. I don't necessarily mind that though, my biggest gripe with Tolkien is that he just didn't write enough. I mean, he did but most of it was backstory.

[Alyssa]

K.A. wrote:"Which reminds me: I was surprised not to see any mention of the being that became Tom Bombadil in the Silmarillion"

From what Tolkien did write about Tom Bombadil he was the most ancient of all the beings in Middle Earth and I always got the impression that he was a representation of the Author himself - aware of the story and therefore immune to it.

[K.A.]

That's an interesting interpretation of Bombadil, I like it! I've also heard that he was basically the earth itself, and represented the power of nature to withstand the machinations of people and to endure with or without or stuff. But since the Silmarillion goes into the history of the ancient beings, I would have expected him to crop up there somewhere, maybe under a different name...

[Joseph]

K.A. wrote: "But since the Silmarillion goes into the history of the ancient beings, I would have expected him to crop up there somewhere, maybe under a different name..."

OK, I'm now midway through Fellowship, so I can report: When the Hobbits are at Bombadil's house, he says that he's basically older than any Elves or Men -- he was alive before the Elves were wakened. In the Council of Elrond, Elrond says, "Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by the Northern Men, and other names beside."

As for why he didn't show up in the Silmarillion, it may just be that he was offstage -- the events of the Silmarillion mostly took place in Beleriand, which was well to the west of the lands depicted in Lord of the Rings, and most of which was cast down in ruins at the end of the First Age. But maybe he would've been incorporated had Tolkien had a chance; and/or he might be mentioned in some of the drafts preserved in the History of Middle-earth books.

[K.A.]

Ah! Thanks - the "other names" I couldn't remember!

[Joseph]

If I had to guess I'd say that he was a Maia, probably originally in the service of Yavanna or Nessa, who just kind of came into Middle-earth and carved out a little domain for himself out in the back of the beyond.