Heart-Shaped Box by Joe Hill

[Lauren]

Barbara and I just made a quick decision and decided to start reading Joe Hill's Heart-Shaped box today! Please join in if you're interested, or stop by once you've read the book :)

We'll be reading 15 chapters a day, and 12 on the last day, with Saturday as a free/catch-up day.

[Lauren]

Ok, I've finished the first 15 chapters.

Not too bad so far, and I'm suddenly taking more notice of the unexplained knocking noises in the house :) I like the plot is moving quickly, and the characters aren't wasting time insisting that this can't be possible.

I'm wondering if the fact that Craddock was Anna's adoptive father will be of any significance.

What I didn't like was the dream sequence in chapter 15, but that's mostly because I generally find dream sequences boring. However, I'm curious to see if parts of the dream crop up in the coming narrative, and what significance they have.

[Barbara]

Yeah I finished them too. And I am not going to read any more tonight. I am very good in imaging things too and I was reading this book in the tub and I had the distinct impression someone was behind me. Of course no one was there but it made me get out of the tub anyway. If I read more tonight I am not sure if I can sleep tonight. Our house was built in 1902 and makes a lot of noises and of course there are the cats that can jump on me any time they want, but preferably in the middle of the night, just when I am drifting off to sleep.
The funny thing is that there isn't stuff to creep me out yet in the book. It is kind of the normal scary stuff but somehow it does creep me out. I love the way Craddock disappears in the sunlight and is only partially visible.

The plot is going along nicely. Like you said no wasting time in can this happen or not, but then that was sort of taking care off by their background. You would expect a goth and a rock guy with a macabre collection to believe in ghosts. On the other hand I would have loved to have spend more time on what Danny saw or what happened to him that made him sit in his car staring into nothingness.

I am wondering that too. I'm also wondering about the eyes. Why do they have weird eyes when they are dead? What does it mean?

I don't like dreamsequences because I always loose track of what is happening and then I am afraid that I have missed or am missing something important. I am sure that it will come up later because it was very specific. Not something that you would randomly dream if you''re scared.

I am also curious as to what will happen now Georgia has burned the suit. There is no way to sell it now and maybe get rid of the ghost. Will it influence Craddock in any way now that the suit is gone? We'll I will have to find out tomorrow, because I can't read any more of this tonight. :)

[Lauren]

The cat hasn't actually freaked me out much while reading horror stories, even when she's in heat and making that horrible howling noise (which she is now, *sigh*. We're getting her spayed next week). The only thing that bugs me a bit is when there's a noise in the cupboard or on the stairs or something, and she looks in that direction. Or when she seems to be watching an invisible being moving across the ceiling...

Living with someone helps too, although I read for a bit in the bath as well (it was chapter 16 and 17, I will confess), and then imagined Yaseen standing behind me with a plastic bag. Which has nothing to do with this story, but it comes from a horror movie I really like.

Anyway.

I find the eye thing a bit difficult to picture. Everything else is fine, but the eye thing seems too... pasted on?

I think Georgia's burning of the suit was more of a plot device to prevent Jude from somehow evading the curse. I think he thought of doing the same thing earlier and then realised that he'd probably be stuck with the ghost if the suit was burned, so it would be best not to do that. Selling the thing seems like a plausible solution, and when he decides to do that, it's the perfect time (plot-wise) for Georgia to burn the suit and leave them stuck with the ghost.

There were two things I wanted to mention before I go to bed.

Firstly, this quote:
He understood that the ghost existed first and foremost within his own head; that maybe ghosts always haunted minds, not places. If he wanted to take a shot at it, he'd have to turn the barrel against his own temple. (47)
Is this foreshadowing the end? However, that seems a bit too obvious, but maybe it's some twist on the idea of getting the ghost out of his mind.

The second thing - why is it Anna's stepfather taking revenge on Jude, and not Anna herself? And if her ghost isn't motivated to take revenge, why hasn't he at least seen her? I'm suspicious of the stepfather's role in this.

[Barbara]

Mine has, but that was more because I was so fixed on what I was reading I didn't notice her untill she jumped on my lap.
Oh, how terrible is Maia? I had lots of fun when Cicero was in heat, mostly because she frustrated the hell out of Bobbie and that was funny as hell. At the time we had 5 cats all spayed and only Bobbie was a former male. Cicero kept backing into him and pushing her butt into his face and offering herself to him and Bobbie had this helpless expression on his face which was hilarious. I felt sorry for him, here was this nice female cat begging him and he was unable to do anything about it. Ah life, it is a bitch!
Bastet on the other hand kept marking her territory and letting the world know with scent trails that she was ready, willing and able. Unfortunately for Cicero and again Bobbie she didn't look very well where she was marking so they got a full load each. Again really funny, but I was glad that after she was spayed she stopped marking.
Just wait and make sure she is really out of heat before you have her spayed since it can be really dangerous if she is in heat to have that done.

Oh looking at invisible bugs or stuff is always creeping me out. Cicero sees the tiniest of bugs or specks of dust moving and she will be totally fixated on something I can't see and she will hunt it down or just stare at it for minutes at a time and I am always wondering what I am missing.

Don't worry I was thinking about reading further myself too, but it is just too dark out to do that with this book.

What do you mean with "pasted on"?
It intrigues me because they have said it is almost like they used a magic marker on the eyes to make them dark. Usually covering the eyes means something in the sense that they can't see something. But what is it that they can't see? And is the scribbling out the eyes on the photo of Jude a sign that he is going to die or that he is missing something?

Georgia suggested it before and Jude said they couldn't because his lawyer would need it as evidence in a possible harassment case with dead threats. The fact that she is the one who is burning it might be significant. I suppose something will happen to her. She has been helping Jude. She found him before he was dead and thwarted Craddock's plan.
Maybe it is just a plot device, since it was already said that he couldn't return it or hide from it. It was just a means of sending Craddock to him. But somehow it creeped me out. Probably because it is so final. Now there really is no way out and no hope of living happily ever after, now the shit has really hit the fan.

If the quote is a prophecy of what is to come, then I really don't like it. You do not reveal the ending on page 47. The quote itself is something to think about.

I don't know, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Anna's death is a suicide? Maybe she is restricted in some way? Maybe she doesn't blame Jude but Craddock does? Maybe it has something to do with how she commited suicide? Jude thinks she may have used the razor, maybe she defiled it somehow and that is what pisses off Craddock? I am sure it will be revealed later on.
He did see Anna in the dream sequence. But was that Anna or something else?

[Lauren]

Eww, the marking sounds gross - I'm glad Maia doesn't do that! On the downside she has no other cats around, so she bothers us. She wants attention, but the kind of attention she wants changes. Usually she loves it if I flip her on her back and rub her belly, but she won't let me do that now. She wants you either to rub her head or stroke her back, but if you do the latter, she gets into position, and instead of purring she makes a weird noise. But I do it anyway because it shuts her up for a while. Her worst habit is howling, and she likes to stand on the stairs and howl because it sounds loudest there. She mostly does this in late morning/early afternoon, and in the middle of the night, *sigh*. Her other habit is rolling around on the floor meowing, or finding things to rub her head against, but that's actually really cute.

Her heat session generally only lasts for about 5 days, so she should be totally out of it by Wednesday. Otherwise we'll just postpone.

Pasted on - well, when I see it in my head, I imagine that their eyes are like little squares of paper with black squiggles on it that had been pasted over their eyes. Although now that I think about it, it'd be more like a photo with black koki on the eyes. Still, it would seem like someone drew on them, and it just looks weird in my head. Have you ever seen the movie Scott Pilgrim vs. The World? It would be something like the strip that appears over Julie's mouth when she swears, or the dismayed face that appears over Knives's face when she learns about Scott and his ex. Although it's a bit creepy in this book, I find the image to be kind of kooky as well.

Jude's excuse about the lawyer was a lie. It makes sense, but he wasn't planning to contact anyone. He just said it because he thought burning the suit would be a bad idea, but he didn't want to tell Georgia why.

Something might happen to her, but not necessarily because of burning the suit. I think that, if anything, that helped the ghost. When Jude finds her, he thinks "he wanted you to do that".

I also found it kind of creepy though. Juse had already figured that it would be a bad idea, and moments earlier he had thought of a way to evade the curse. Then he comes out and Georgia's basically doomed them. Or at least him.

Well, I could be totally wrong about the ending. I just thought of it because I've been reading some Victorian-era horror stories by Edith Nesbit, and most of the time the ending is foreshadowed or easy to guess. I'm not sure if readers then wouldn't not have picked up on the hint, or if it was considered the norm to foreshadow the ending so clearly.

However, I still think the ending may have something to do with Jude getting the ghost out of his mind.

The fact that Anna committed suicide and might not be angry with Jude is a strong argument. I mean, from what we've seen of her personality, she doesn't seem like the revenge type. If she were to haunt Jude, it'd be because she died in love/obsessed with him. I just feel like there's more to the story, that it's not a simple case of a stepfather avenging his daughter. And given that quite a lot has happened and we're not even halfway through, it feels like there should be more than just Jude and the ghost.

[Lauren]

I'm at chapter 26. I might only finish the next four chapters late tonight and I'm busy tomorrow, so I thought I'd comment now.

Chapters 17-19 were big 'horror' chapters. What did you think of them? I wasn't too scared (I'm starting to wonder if I'm expecting the wrong thing from horror novels). Yay for the dogs though! Except now I'm very concerned about their safety.

Anna kept mentioning Lake Pontchartrain. Is this an important location perhaps?
Also these quotes from her made me go "hmm..."
My stepdad used to say he never met anyone as easy to put into a trance as me. (144)
He's got a pendulum, he can hang it over you and ask you questions and tell if you're lying by the way it swings back and forth. He can read your aura with it too. My aura is black as sin. (147)

I liked the long series of flashbacks to Jude's time with Anna, particularly the insights into Jude's past. Curious to see if her palm readings play out:
- Look at that lifeline. [...] This thing goes on forever. I guess you live forever.
- He isn't through with you yet. Your daddy. You'll see him again.
- Someone is going to try and hurt you, someone who wants to take everything away from you. [...] Someone you can't fight. You'll fight anyway, but you can't win. You won't win. All the good things in your life will soon be gone.

[Barbara]

I have read chapters 16-30

I have not seen the movie you talked about, but I have a clear image of what it looks like in my mind and it looks creepy.

I know that what Jude said about the lawyer was a lie. It was just the first thing to pop into his mind that would be an excuse to not burn it.

I have read more Victorian horror storuies and it certainly wasn't the norm to foreshadow the ending very early.
Maybe the remark was made as to give you the idea that all hope was lost and give you a sense of doom while reading the book. Although that I have that sense of doom anyway.

What do you expect from horror novels? I found them quite scary. Maybe that is because of my what if problem discussed in the Club Dumas topic. Maybe you're more sceptical than me.
I was terrified for the dogs and still am. I felt so sorry for Bon when her paw was cut by the razor. I hope nothing happens to her and Angus. I don't mind people or ghosts killing people, but don't mess with the animals!

I am not sure if the lake is an important location or if it is just a popular holiday location close to both their home towns.

The flashbacks are great. They add a certain kind of inevitability to the story. Like no matter if Danny didn't react to the add it would still have happened another way.

I am curious about the daddy prophecy. We know Jude's father is dying. Is he going to make an appearance as a ghost later on and if he does on whose side will he be? Will he take it as a chance to redeem his soul or as a final opportunity to pester his kid?

Am I correct in assuming after reading chapter 30 that Anna didn't commit suicide? Is Craddock after Jude, because he knows something or because he had a relationship with Anna or something else?

Can't wait to read on ansd see what happens next. I want to find out what happened at the end of the chapter. Did Anna came through the door as a ghost or is she inhabiting Goergia's body? Is that why the dogs got so excited at the end while they kept silent and uninterested during the ouija baord conversation.

This book has a curious effect on me. Somehow I have a feeling I shouldn't like it, but I do like it. I am not sure why I shouldn't like it and also not sure why I do like it. But that is what I feel. Very weird.

[Lauren]

Barbara wrote: "What do you expect from horror novels? I found them quite scary. Maybe that is because of my what if problem discussed in the Club Dumas topic. Maybe you're more sceptical than me."

I'm more easily scared with a visual element. Horror movies can scare the crap out of me (depending on the type of horror). I don't scare so easily with books, even though I make an effort to imagine everything more clearly than usual. When I was a kid it was easier. I remember reading a non-fiction book about ghosts, and lying awake all night as a result. Heart-Shaped Box had me looking over my shoulder at one point, but that's because I was reading at night sitting with my back to the staircase.

But then again, horror can also be about more than simply fear - it's about things that are repulsive, shocking, evil, etc. And even when I don't feel scared when reading horror novels, it's very easy to understand how the events of the novel would be terrifying.

[Lauren]

I've finished chapters 30-45.

It was satisfying to find that my suspicions about Craddock were well-founded. However, I felt that I should have guessed about the child abuse. I considered it a possibility, but that was all. However, there were so many clues in the parallels between Anna and Georgia - the accent, dating Jude, the goth thing, the state names, the pin prick in the hand. The only thing that didn't match up, was that Georgia had been molested by her father's friend, and we hadn't heard anything of the sort about Anna. So I feel like I should have made a solid guess at that point.

Why didn't Jude tell Georgia though? He'd figured it out with the ouija board, but the first time he actually states the truth is when they get to Jessica's house.

By the way Jessica was probably the most terrifying thing about this book for me so far. Ruth's ghost was also creepy.

And oh, the poor dogs! I know it's not fair but I really hated that kid for shooting Bon. But at least she died quickly. I thought it was horrible that Jude didn't try to get some medical attention for Angus, or at least give him some comfort, because the spirit dog was more important than the physical one. I had no major problem with Jude's character up until that point, but I couldn't help but dislike him from then on.

I like how the story became increasingly personal for Jude: making his consider his relationships with Anna, Georgia and his father; returning to his childhood home and seeing his father one last time; saying that the boy he used to be "starved to death" (312) and Jude is his ghost.

However, I didn't like the confrontation involving Jude, Craddock, Jude's father, Anna, and Georgia. I thought the image of the ghost literally crawling in and out of Jude's father's body was silly, especially when his foot got stuck in the gullet on the way out. And why did Jude have to draw an actual door for Georgia to become a door for Anna? Why does Anna ask her stepfather "Why?". Surely she knows why he killed her.

[Barbara]

I must admit I read the whole book. The last couple of chapters had so few pages I read it all. Sorry if I tell something I shouldn't have. I try not to do that.

I can get very scared reading. I think in pictures so when I read I see everything before me. It is the most important reason that I often don't like movieversions of books I have read. I have already thought up my own images and the movie differs from what I thought up.

I didn't think about Anna being molested or not. It wasn't a surprise when I found out, but it was not something I thought about before.

Jude also didn't tell Georgia that Anna didn't commit suicide. I think he got to scared or distracted by the image of Georgia with her throat slit and he didn't think about it.

Ruth's ghost was very sad. Of course you know you can't change the past, but it would have been nice if she didn't get taken again. I know I am a big softy and I also know that if that happened I would probably have been angry since that would have been illogical, but still... I would have liked to hear if it was the alst time anyone saw her and that she had found some sort of peace.

Jessica was creepy. And so was Reese.

I can understand why Jude didn't get medical help for Angus. How could he? It would have been the end of everything. He could have left Angus on the doorstep of a vet, but then he would have left what protection he had and would never have gotten him back. If he went inside with the dog how would he have explained the injuries both on the dog and on himself. The vet would have assumed that the dog had attacked him and bitten his finger off and called the cops with all kinds of consequences. Maybe Jude was hoping to reach his aunt in time and that she could treat the dog too. Mostly I just think he was too much out of it because of blood loss and didn't think clearly. He did have one moment of contact with Angus.

I didn't mind the crawling in and out of the body. I agree it was a bit silly that he got stuck, but maybe he was held back by Jude's father. Who knows?

The actual door made a lot of sense to me. Most creatures from the beyond (demons, vampires, souls, etc.) have to be invited in. Opening a door is a very simple way of inviting someone in. Also it is a symbolic representation of leaving one world and entering another. One that is used in many wiccan rituals. So it made perfect sense to me. Especially a door that is sanctified by using blood.

I don't think Anna asked "Why?" because she didn't know why he killed her. I think she asked it because she wants to know why he molested her and her sister and her niece, why he did it after he put her in a trance, why he went after Jude and Georgia, why he just couldn't have let her be and let her be happy, why he was such a jackass.

[Lauren]

I can get scared when reading, but not because of images. I don't really know what it takes to scare me, but a lot of the time the start of a horror story is much scarier to me than the ending. I think I'm more frightened by the inexplicable. Once the monsters are out in the open, they are less frightening. Except for that girl in The Ring. I've watched that movie many times and she's still scary.

I think Ruth's ghost creeped me out because this horrible thing happens so quietly and calmly, and in a sense happens over and over again. The fact that you can't see who leads her away is unnerving.

I can understand Jude's lack of action regarding Angus, especially given his own poor physical condition, but I was still upset that he wasn't more upset about his dog.

The idea of a door makes a lot of sense, but since it was Georgia who was supposed to act as the door, I thought the picture of the door seemed unnecessary. Why couldn't Georgia herself simply say or do something to bring Anna through? I thought perhaps that the drawing of the door was an awkward plot device to allow the dogs' spirits to appear too. It wouldn't make any sense for them to go through Georgia. And of course Jude falls through the door at the end of the chapter.

Out those why's that Anna might have asked, the only one that makes sense for me is why Craddock went after Jude and Georgia (I'm actually hoping for a decent answer to this as well). I don't think she could really expect him to have an explanation for why he's a paedophile, except perhaps to say something about his preferences for children. I assume he put her in a trance to protect himself by preventing her from having any memory of the experience, and she should know that.

[Barbara]

Things like what happened to Ruth always creep me out. I can't understand why things like that happen and can happen so silently. It feels like some things should be accompanied by a lot of sound and stuff. But the world goes on and no one notices that bad stuff happens to individuals.

I reread the stuff about the door and also at what happened with the ouija board. Anna asks if Goergia will open the door. She asked first if she will be the door and then if she will open the door. I think Georgia in a way is the door, because she is dying. She is partly in the land of the living and also partly in the land of the dead and because of that she is a bridge or doorway. The drawing of the door is just a physical manifestation just like Jude had to buy the suit so that Craddock can hunt him. Craddock wasn't able to go to him on his own. Georgia had to be dying to be able to be and open the door.

I understand but still people will want to know why. Why did you hurt me? Why did it happen to me? etc.

I must say I was hoping for some pig action. When we read there weren't any dogs but there were still pigs on the farm that belonged to Martin I was thrilled. When Martin dies all he owns I presume is inherited by Jude. That would mean he owns a couple of pigs that could serve as familiar. Some witches have had pigs as familiars in the past. So I was hoping the pigs would do something like Bon and Angus did, but unfortunately they didn't.

[Lauren]

OK, I can accept that door explanation :)

Lol, I thought the pigs might do something too! He just sees a pig staring down at him when he wakes up, and the pig recognises him as Judas Coyne, although that's probably a paramedic. Admittedly though, pig action might have been silly.

Since you'd finished the book I read the rest of it last night, especially since those last 12 chapters are only about 30 pages or so. it was essentially just a wrap-up, and I liked the happy endings.

I was a bit bothered about how smoothly everything went. Jude doesn't even have to explain what he was doing at Jessica's house. I guess that was mostly the work of his excellent lawyer, but still. And does that 'Age Rage' phenomena enable old men on the verge of death to suddenly find the strength to get up and attack people?

However, I did like that Martin is killed by the ghost and blamed for the attack as a kind of last little punishment for what he did to Jude and his mother.

By the way, what is it with Jude and state names for women? There's Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and Tennessee.

There was something else I wanted to mention, but I've completely forgotten it...

[Barbara]

I liked the happy endings too, especially since I never expected them.

Yeah pig action would have been silly, but I was hoping for it anyway. :)

It did went smoothly, but I guess forensic evidence did show what sort of happened and since they can't say well Martin was possesed by a ghost, they call it age rage. I have never heard of age rage, but I have heard of people that have been very sick and unable to do stuff for a long time and shortly before they die they have a moment of total health. People that have been unable to remember stuff know everything again, someone with paralised limbs that can move them again. Also I have heard of mothers being able to do incredible feats of strength when their children have been in danger. I think the age rage thing is related to these things. Or at least in the minds of those that have to explain what happened. Also people are very good in not seeing (ignoring) things they don't understand or want to see.

The fact that Jude names his girls after the state they come from is just his way of not getting emotionally involved. He wants to stay detached and see them as live in whores and not relationships. That way he can get rid of them quite easily if and when he wants to. When he starts calling Georgia Marybeth she likes that because she knows she in no longer a girl in his bed but is becoming more.

Well if you remember it I am here! :)

[Lauren]

I was hoping Reese would reveal something creepy at the very end.

I figured that about Jude, I was just wondering why he chose state names specifically. But then again, maybe it's just something he started doing randomly, or he initially met a stripper with a state name, and he stuck with it.

I wanted to give the book 3.5 stars, but of course I can't do that here, so I settled on 3. I liked the story and the characters, but not quite enough for a 4-star rating.

Would you read more Joe Hill?

[Barbara]

It is something that is often done in the US among a group of friends that come from different states. And some states are regular names. Some already were but some became names because they were used as nicknames.

I too wanted to give the book 3.5 stars, but I liked it better than the books I give 3 stars so I settled on 4.

Yeah I would. I liked this book and am interested in his other work. There is a book mentioned in my edition that I think is a collection of short stories. I would be very interested in that one.

[Lauren]

Oh ok.

You mean 20th Century Ghosts? I remember seeing that on the shelves when it came out, although I didn't really take much interest in it. I'd give it a try as well.