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Story and Structure: Theory and Practice
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M
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Nov 26, 2012 06:25PM
This is a thread for members to explore in depth their ideas about story writing.
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After sparking a few ideas and fanning the flames a bit (usually starting with characters and a few jokes, but really any random idea at this point), I typically start my "serious" outlining with the climax. Usually, it's a twist or some point about the characters involved, so from there it's fairly easy to build towards that climax.
Al--don't be offended: I usually know where the book will eventually go but generally don't know how its going to get there until I write it. When I wrote "Brazil" (my only published novel--and it's self-published), I knew Other's fate from the beginning. Then I worked out how he was going to get to that place. I admit, if you write that way the end is less exciting than the journey.
Yes, Alex. Miss your writing much. I can relate to that feeling of being distracted. I think I've entered that phase myself. The only thing which keeps me going these days is the haiku thread. All those wonderful haiku have kept me motivated enough to keep trying.
Yellow box?
Ajay, I can’t express how much I’m enjoying the haiku you post, and Ryan’s and Guy’s. You’ve been putting up some of the best verses in that gargantuan thread. It must be a mile long by now, if all the lines could be laid end to end.Alex’s description of how she writes reminds me of my own experience with writing. I write a story to find out what happens in it and to get to know the characters. Very little of the material that goes into my stories comes from my conscious mind.
Hm, I think I can actually see the difference in our stories there. (I'm basing this off of the one story Jenny wrote that I read, so the hypothesis may be a little off.) M and Al's stories are emotionally fluid, though in different ways - M's being like a small, ever changing creek, and Al's more like a whirlwind - but there's always a sense of not knowing where one stands, even when it seems like we should. That's not a criticism; that's a compliment. It's an interesting effect.Jenny's stories and my stories are much more deliberate - even if the reader doesn't necessarily know where the story is headed, they (usually) know where they are, emotionally speaking. They're more like a steady march towards an undermined point.
... If we wanted to round-out the four humours analogy evident in this explanation, then Tim fits the bill of quick, emotionally charged stories that create such an effect that it's easy to forgive the lack of a three-or-five act structure. (Again, basing this on only two of Tim's works.)
XP I don't know how I write. XP It seems that, no matter what approach I take, I can never get it to turn out the right way. Blargablargablargablarga
I don't any of us ever think we get our stories "the right way." Achieving our ideal story is an ... asymphotic(?) goal.
M wrote: "What do you mean? You don't finish them?"Hardly ever. I'm just stuck in this phase where I'll start something, think it's the worst idea ever, and throw it away. Or bury it.
Sometimes I write a story by combining two story ideas. For instance, I had an idea regarding a boy called "The Prince of Coxcombs" about a boy who liked flowers. Then I had a story in mind about a boy who hung himself onto a cross as a schizophrenic who believed he was Christ (I hope nobody's offended by that last). That was a story where the beginning was fixed and the ending was not. But usually I know the ending before I know the rest of it.
I rescued these from the “Jenny’s Voice” thread in the “Brainstormin’ Help” folder. Jenny posted these yesterday.------------
I turned in a story, Togo's Guitar, nine something on Thursday. Did I turn it in early enough. For some reason I had been under the impression that as long as I turned it in "before Friday" that would be good enough--now I am not so sure. If I was too late, too bad. But perhaps I will have learned something for next time.
When I first heard the story idea it seemed intriguing: guitar strings. Now I know nothing at all about guitars. Except that they seemed like they could make for an interesting take on a story if a person did know anything about them.
So the first thing I did was look up "guitar" on the Internet. I suppose you could argue, "How reliable is that?" but, truthfully, it was a one or two page short story and not a novel. Well, I got a history on-line and there were several things that stuck out:
the first guitars were made of turtle shells, etc.; the Egyptian female pharaoh (there was one but only one) Hapshepsut, had a guitar like instrument in her burial area and may have been the lover of its owner; and the a'woud (I think that's spelled right) the Arabic instrument of which the modern guitar is derivative (it, in turn, was derivative of an Indian instrument). All of these told a story but I decided the first one would be the easiest to turn into a story. (In other words, it would take more research and time...)
So I made up a simple story about a man, the woman he loves, and his guitar. The connection is obvious. To win the woman he invents the guitar. Anyway, even if it is not eligible for the contest, I would appreciate it if people would read my story and tell me what they think.
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Oh... if anyone wanted to know. I got my knowledge for the story I wrote about here from the on-line "A Brief History of the Guitar" by Paul Guy. Of course, I don't know if that makes my story more or less reliable than Wickipedia.
O.o but the stuff I've been writing recently isn't good at all....
....fine. But it won't get posted. I'm not that much of a masochist.
Kat-- seriously, do not give up on being a writer. If I had a penny for every false start and truly awful thing I'd written, I'd be rich by now! I mean, truthfully, I know I'm a lot better than when I first started. I remember when I was in my late teens and early twenties I wrote a short book "Children of the Cat Goddess." But after that I had a real dry spell. No matter what I tried to write it just wouldn't work. And after that I didn't really go back to writing until after one year in grad school. I got back home, wrote a book--not even Mom thought it evinced much skill. But then I wrote another book and it was better. Not classic, but better. So don't give up. Eventually you will find your muse.
I remember handing Mom a story of mine to read. She read a few pages of it, tossed it down, and told me I should hire somebody to teach me how to write. If I hadn’t had over a hundred semester hours of college English behind me, I might have taken it in a better spirit.
I have a muse. She just doesn't like me right now.Kirilee: That's right. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR IGNORING ME FOR A MONTH!
My muse is shy. I haven't met him/her directly.
I’m supposed to be logging out, but I can’t resist saying that the muse behind the complexity, character development, and realistic detail of your stories must be an awesome one, indeed!
Gol-ly, thanks, M!... Does anyone know what I'm referencing? I ask, because even though I know I'm referencing something ... I honestly can't remember what.
You should try to meet him/her. I think they'd be an interesting fellow.
When I worked in the men’s department at J. C. Penney, a woman came in one day to buy a pair of pajamas for her husband. I showed her what we had, but she seemed indecisive. Finally, she looked me up and down and held out a pair and said, “You’re about my husband’s size. Would you go and put these on?” I went to the dressing room, then came out with the pajamas on. She said they were just right, and she bought them.If you want to be a writer, you must be prepared to go to any lengths to keep from starving to death.
... Glad I work in the grill area of McDonald's. All I have to deal with is broken equipment and lazy workers.
People can be interesting, though! There was a young man and his girlfriend who came in to return a bunch of clothes. Acting smart, they asked if they could have the refund in $1 bills. I told them they’d need a suitcase to carry them out.One man read me the label on a sweater and said it was guaranteed not to shrink. “Does that mean,” he asked wrily, “I can wash it in hot water and throw it in a hot dryer and still expect it to fit?” I told him if he did that, it would probably fit his pet hamster.
Interesting, working in a store, I've never thought of all the crazy stories you could have. You should make a charter of your life M and have him work in a store and the stuff that happens to him, I think if would be a fun read :D
I like talking with people on the bus and such, but I tend to be overtly focused whenever I work - which, as it turns out, is a bad thing for talking with strangers.
Kat wrote: "O.o but the stuff I've been writing recently isn't good at all...."In my experience, even if you think it's bad, you should at least try to finish it. My novel I wrote last year is a mess but I basically forced myself to finish it. Needless to say, I learned a lot that year.
Christa - Ron Paul 2016 wrote: “Interesting, working in a store . . .”Thanks, Christa! It was interesting. The security guard had a booth in the men’s department, from which he could survey the whole store. One night, he chased a woman across the lot behind the mall, and caught up with her at the creek. When he told me about it, he pulled up his shirt so I could see the scar on his stomach, where she had bitten him.
His name was Jerry. He was a character! He said he wanted to become an undertaker.
She had stolen something. He told me what it was--clothes probably. It’s been so long ago, I can’t remember. He was quiet, mild mannered, wore ordinary clothes. You would never have guessed he was the store’s security guard.
Jerry said he wanted to go to school to become an undertaker. It would be interesting to know whether or not he did. Wouldn’t it be strange if he ended up embalming the woman who bit him?
The simple fact that he wanted to go to school specifically to be an undertaker in of itself makes him interesting. That's an odd career aspiration.
He’s one of the most deadpan people I’ve ever met, and with a devastating sense of humor.
M. Why not have a story about a bank robber (if you write this kind of story) who asks the saleslady (or salesman) the question you named about money in a suitcase. The idea would be that the person asking comes in and a few days later the salesperson reads about a banking heist. He/She goes to the police but they laugh it off. And so he/she goes in pursuit of the person using other clues. Oh, wait a minute, you mean they asked to be paid in one dollar bills and the suitcase was what you said...
I also agree that M. should finish her story--at all costs.
Fun thread you started here, M.Like M and Alex, I find that I am unable to map my stories. The characters come alive, and they begin to tell the story and take it where it goes.
The one thing that one can most certainly assert from writing and reading the stories here in the WSS, is that the stories cannot be catalogued by structure, or theories of structure. They are formed and oftentimes uniquely so, other than being comprised of words.
When it comes to writing, I kind of have a mixed style. If I'm going to write a novel, I sit down and do some sort of vague outline. But when it comes to short stories, I usually just whip them out on the spot and figure out what's going to happen as I write.
I have a bad habit of being overly strict in my plot progression, especially in my short stories. If my first act takes a thousand words, my story will almost certainly be within two hundred words of four thousand. I always change the apparent circumstances (even a little) at the midpoint and things get (more) violent at the three quarters point.I think Lucian & Kane: Next Best Thing might be an exception, and I'm told that's one of my better ones. (I don't agree, but that's probably because I know what the full version - which will be written eventually - will be like. My idea is to use narrative to give the feel that Candido is a heroic character, even as he becomes more and more apathetic towards his loyal friend. This will be a little easier considering that his friend is a bit of a scumball. Then, at the end, flip things around and report, in a very flat narrative tone, all the consequences of his actions.)
I didn't write an outline for After Dark (which I'm thinking about renaming Decay) and now I'm looking at a fairly lengthy editing process.
For me personally, planning everything out ahead of time is a good thing since it’s what keeps me from “gassing out” midway through the writing. The names of the characters, their gimmicks, the plotline, and even sometimes the choreography is rigidly planned from beginning to end. I’ve tried to just “let the words flow” several times and what I end up with is a nonsensical prose or something else worth regretting. If I do screw up badly in the first draft, fixing it is easier with a clear and focused game plan. Having said all of this, I’ll give you all a sneak preview of my short story called “Death Blade”, which will be the piece of writing that conforms to the “jars” prompt. And I quote…CHARACTERS:
Lokus Leadgoth, Disembodied Clown Head Singer
Karlos Ludwig, Guitarist
Eva Martin, Bassist
Ernesto Rivera, Drummer
Jill Serra, Missionary
PROMPT CONFORMITY: Lokus’ head is in a large pickle jar.
SYNOPSIS: Death Blade is a heavy metal band performing at a carnival ground for thousands of raging fans. Jill is a religious missionary who does everything in her power to make sure this show doesn’t go on. It is later revealed that Jill is secretly a succubus who was responsible for Lokus’ head being in a jar in the first place. The final battle takes place between the band and Jill with the latter holding the fans hostage and threatening to kill them if Lokus doesn’t give up immediately.
Despite all the frightening horror attached to this, I’ll do my best to keep it PG-13. A man can only try.
I'm trying to find the right balance between free styling a plot and actually planning it. I freestyled my first book, but I like plotting as well because I spend less time staring at a blank page and more time writing :) however over-plotting kind of turns me into a writing neat freak so obsessed with getting from point A to point B that things like character development really suffer. At the moment it seems like some real gems can come out of the frustration of wandering in a plotless wasteland, but actually getting anything done requires some outlining, so I'm looking for a happy medium :) That aside, I just learned something fun about a story's midpoint: apparently it's supposed to be when the protagonist stops reacting and starts acting. I'm not sure if that applies to all types of stories, but as a general idea it's been pretty helpful in my writing so far :)
