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Are Self Published Books Inherently Inferior?
Nope! I've quit reading 3 traditionally published books this year in mid-stream. One by one of my favorite authors, which was disappointing. And traditionally published books are not being very well proofread these days, esp for the ebook versions - LOTS of errors, which I find surprising. The only problem with indie books is finding them. I've read some terrific stories by indie authors in the last few months, and some great writing. It just takes a bit more effort to find them.
The only place where traditional seems to usually beat indie is in the cover design. For better or worse, people pay attention to the covers, so I'd love to see indies get good professionals to do their stuff in that area. Editing can be a problem, too, but I haven't found it to be as big a problem as the detractors from the market say it is.
Mod
I think your blog hits the nail on the head in some respects, and leaves some questions about the future of books I-pubs, E-books, and traditional publishing whose answers I am more interested in.
The article you linked in your blog is really very interesting:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidvinj...
However, he doesn't give any answers either, but he does make some interesting predictions about what the future looks like that gives hope, and also concern.
For example:
As a person who is primarily a reader, I want quality, afordability and access to a broader range of talent and a more open enviroment that develops many types of plots and stories without being fettered by traditional publishing formulas and established processes. None of these things are mutually exclusive, but quality is still a priority.
So, what questions?
Rather than are they inferior or not, maybe we should ask how to help support the Indie-pub community to bring up the quality of Indie pubs. We all know the answer to this question is not as white or black as the question sugguests.
1) There are a lot of junk indie books out there. Just because anyone "can" publish a book now, doesn't mean that they should. The problem is that the authors of these books do not believe that they are junk and a few almost maniacally defend their writing in ways that do no favors for Indie publishers, e-books or the social networks that have helped good indie books get recognized.
2. As easy as it is to say there are junk Indie books, that isn't the entire truth. There are also some very good Indie Books. Like the article you sited stated: Books like Wool (which I've read) are Indie books, so are Galaxy Unknown series and though Baen Books may not be "indie pub," it's closer to being an Indie-pub than mainstream publishing (this is where the famed "Monster Hunter International" Series is published.
So, in a morass of mediocre, there are also some nuggets of gold when it comes to Indie books. Sifting through Indie Pubs for good reads is kind of like panning for gold. It takes a little more work than going into B&N and pulling one off of the shelf.
So, there are good and bad Indie-books. Where many indie books may need help, there are also some wonderful gems that nobody would ever get to enjoy and read if things were left up to the publishing industry as it was before the E-book technological explosion.
3) There are also a lot of talented writers, who are writing books destined to become Indie-pubs that, for what ever reason, need just a nudge or an ounce of help to bring them up to the same level of quality as those writers who are able to produce quality stories in an Indie-pub format and books that have benifited from the publishing industries polishing, editing and marketing machine. In fact, there are stories written by Indie-authors that have better characters, better plots, and more creative settings that are not as marketable as comercially published books for no other reason than they need the attention of someone with business, marketing and editing skills the best of whom are employed by the publishing industry.
So, what I think is a more important set of questions is:
A) How do we help readers connect with those indie-pubs that really are the equal of a publisher's machine honed product? Surely there are more out there than those few Indie-pubs that have found success and reached the best-sellers list?
B) How do we help those authors on the cusp of such greatness go over the top, what support can help fill those tiny niggling needs in their books so they join the best of the best?
C) How do we presever the open, creative environment for authors and stories created by the explosion of E-books without going back to a system where fat-cats (Publishers) gamble on winners and loosers and stifle or supress those works that do not fit their genre forumlaic-market/profit vs. risk based mold?
Of course I have thought of answers to these, but, I'm not sure many people listen to me, and, I'm equally certain that I may be completely out to lunch on what is possible and what is not, or what helps and what doesn't, or both.
This is the concern: As stated in the article you referenced and I linked further up this post. That article predicts that the publishing industry will get it's act together and get back on top of the situation by using the Indie-Pub/E-book as a minor-league in the same way that Major League Baseball uses their minor leagues, a farm system if you will.
I see this as a blessing for some writers, here's the support they need to clean up their work and make it great if they can ...just... get enough readership to be noticed. Perhaps this may stratify the Indie-E-book system so that higher tiers get financial support (limited) from publishers trying to groom them for bigger and greater things. While they still comb the lower tiers for possible stars. Every little bit helps right?
This kind of a publishing environment might help a lot of struggling writers. Yet, some of the best baseball players never get that call up to the major leagues. There are still only so many slots on a team roster and even though there is a lot of turnover, many good players are left in minors. So, many good writers still might not get "called up" and many good books still might never reach the top tier.
This would also make true the idea that "Indie Pubs are Inferior" in a much more solid way than what we have now. Now, there are gold nuggets in the wash but let the industry take control again and only thier writers will be considered "the best" even though there are many equally talented writers (or more talented) still strugling in the minors. The formulaic restriction would return in an even harder to root-out form. And what we, the reader, now enjoy as a wide open forum with opportunities and new ideas everywhere would again start to get truncated back into marketable packages that meet industry standards, not reader standars.
So, what's the answer? Natural Selection? Surely we can do better than that? In evolutionary terms, adaptability is sometimes favored over resilience.
Jennings wrote: "Nope! I've quit reading 3 traditionally published books this year in mid-stream. One by one of my favorite authors, which was disappointing. And traditionally published books are not being very wel..."Thanks Jennings.
How much do you think self published authors would benefit by having their own team of professionals in place the same way publishers do? Not just cover design, but the entire process. Does it make sense for independent authors like me to see themselves as publishers who oversee the entire process of book production instead of just as authors?
Thanks again for the feedback.
Have fun.
G
I, Curmudgeon wrote: "I like the question and, your Blog hits it right I believe. I'm just a simple reader with no exertise in anything but reading, call me a "Simpleton Curmudgeon." I've listned to the writers I know..."Thank you for putting so much thought and effort into responding to my post. It's good to know that someone is listening.
Do you think that a subsidy press could give a writer the development and polish they need to get over the top, or does every writer have to create their own virtual publishing house complete with editors, proofreaders, cover designers etc.
Thanks again.
Have fun.
G
Definitely not. The percentage of books that end up in the 'didn't finish' category is probably higher in the indie books than in the traditionally published books but I'm sure many of the indie pubs I try are first book authors as well, which may make a difference.I will say that I've found more *horrible examples* in indie books than in traditionally published books, things that would be avoided with good editing.
Mod
I think the issue is that the more organized a subsidiary press becomes, the more like a publisher it becomes and the more control it has to pick winners and loosers.
What Amazon (and other e-book sellers) did, was open the process of picking winners and loosers to the public which, could completely cut out a subidiary press (except that, they usually turn out a higher quality product...that doesn't always mean mistake free though they like to further that image as mucha s they can, and it doesn't mean that the stories are better. A more complete and profiessionally finished product doesn't always mean a better book. Sometimes Grandma's Chicken Soup is better than Campbells. But Campbells has better pachaging and advertising.
So what we need is more like the free family law clinic here in maryland. The customers do not pay, yet, they get full benifits, or maybe an organization like AA for writers. (by that I mean a system that allows writers to share and discuss problems, and have a mentor who's been over the top before to help guide a younger or more novice writer to a higher plateau of accomplishment with their writing.)
In reality though, the free publishing clinic would need to turn a profit to be able to avoid stigma of not being the best money can buy, attract the best tallent to use thier services, and, be paid independently of the success of failure of the books they work on.
For example, if Amazon, or perhaps even goodreads, or some other organization that generates their own income source hired a publishing staff simply to clean up, edit, proofread and help develop a marketing package without having to rely on commission and profits generated by book sales. Perhaps for a nominal fee a writer could present a manuscript and get the benifit of experts, without haivng it shot down and sent back in flames without anyone helping clean it up. Writers could benifit from proof reading and editing even if the product is a risky investment for a publishing firm.
I think the real issue is one you touched on in your blog, that is, to be successful, a writer who is independently publishing his stories has to remember that he has to wear two hats, and that his primary hat is not "writer" it's "Publisher." That's a switch that some people may not be able to do, and, even the most business minded writers likely have trouble with. As a writer they want an open environment that does not fetter their creativity. As a publisher they want a product that can sell, minimize risk and raise profits. Edgy work is risky.
The way things are now an indie writer has only one choice, to bite the bullet and dive into reader reviews and critiques, purhaps chart how many times this or that gets pinged on and use that as a guide to consider adjust their style or what they think is important. ... also a difficult thing for a writer to do, take criticism from readers. (Not impossible of course).
I think that's the real gap between a professinally published book and an independently published book. That publishers do filter books that likely should not be filtered out of the market. The Indie-pub does not have those filters. That means that new and exciting, creative stuff gets published Independently but it often has to travel with not so good writing.
Not all writers self-censor effectively when it comes to their story and vision. Again, just because anyone can publish a book independentally, doesn't mean everyone should publish independently.
I strongly suggest you take a look at this blog, particularly the posts on indie publishing. I have enjoyed all of his Indie books and have also found them to be of them same quality as books put out by publishers.http://postmodernpulps.blogspot.com/
Mod
I have read and enjoyed some wonderful indie-pub ebooks that were fantastic, and, I've read some that were not. These look good. I also liked Wool, though it's not for everybody, and several others. (like Hounded etc).
My saying that publishers have a filter, isn't saying that it's better to be filtered any more than it is to be unfiltered. Simply that generally their product has a better average quality, which is not the same as saying that all are better than e-books or that E-books cannot be as good. In fact I'm saying that they can be, but to find the good ones, some sorting through the pile is required, and, that there are some books that have flaws that would have been better served by a publishing process than an independent process.
The writers have something to say about that I think.
By the same token, the indie-pub explosion (ebook) is a good thing and is opening some new ground on books (not that there is a lot of new ground) and, bringing in some fresh and enjoyable talent that we might never see in a books store without Indie-pubs.
That's kind of the big problem with discussions about Indie books. They tend to line up people on one side or the other when there is a lot of gray area and common ground.
I just like good books. I'm not so picky as to them being an indie-pub or published through a commercial publisher. I just can't ignore the fact that Indie-pubs are at a disadvantage when it comes to marketing. The hardest thing to do is get the word out about a book.
I, Curmudgeon wrote: "I think the issue I have is that I don't want to get caught in "all or nothing thinking," that is that we have to choose a position that says either all Indie Pubs are poor quality or all are good...."Do you think that independent publishers need to use sites like Goodreads to find reviewers and critics that will enhance their final product and serve to weed out books that are not ready for prime time (no matter how they are published?)
The Curmudgeon said, "...I think the real issue is one you touched on in your blog, that is, to be successful, a writer who is independently publishing his stories has to remember that he has to wear two hats, and that his primary hat is not "writer" it's "Publisher." That's a switch that some people may not be able to do, ..."This probably sums up the problem. Speaking as a writer who has been published by a major publisher, the majors sell a lot of books. They know how. I think you might be amazed at how much I made on a "entry level" genre. (And they have very likely been cheating the devil out of us.)
I am a member of the North Louisiana Storyteller and Authors of Romance (NOLA STARS for short). Ten years ago we were discovering that no one who went indie made any money. In fact, if they used a packager, it cost them money. So we recommended a against it, but I have been saying for 10 years that as soon as the hand-held reader became affordable, the e-market would explode. Which it has done. I figure that sooner or later, the majors would be saying, "Do you want that in paper, audible, or e-format. And do you want fried with it."
The problem with a lot of e-indies is that they are stilted. They have a great idea, but the writing needs development. I have one acquaintance who has a truly interesting theme and plot for a series, and he has gone indie with it, and I wanted to like it. He promoted it into a NO. 1 in his genre on Amazon. And he lets you read the first chapter free. AND it is stilted. Dang!
But if you just read for the plot and the story, it would be fine. AND there are a lot of major-pub books out there that are stilted. Some of Cussler's are. Depends on the co-author, if any, of that particular book. I find it a hazard with the action genre in general.
And there are a lot if best-selling authors who screw up amazingly. And lots of editors that don't understand the proper use of words or facts or even grammar. Like how to use the verbs "to lie" and "to lay".
So I am saying the problem you have, Gamal, will be return on energy invested. What do you want? Money or just to tell a story dear to you? Or just to be heard? Most of us write because we can't not write.
And I am rivaling the Curmudgeon for number of words and, for sure, exceeding anyone's use of 'ands'. 'Nuff for now.
Now I have a separate question. Are you folk who who own e-readers (I don't.), buying new books at all? I mean, are you buying books for $4-$10, or are you sticking with free and $.99?
Mod
If youg graphed my purchases, with cost from 0.00 to $15 along the bottom of the graph, and the number of books along the side it would look show the most books in the $0-$0.99 range, and the glide would decrease in number of books as the price rises. What you would also likely see is that when a book crosses th $4.99 mark, the ratio changes. I probably buy more full priced books by mainstream authors distributed by publishing companies than I do mediocre priced books by Indie authors. (that may also reflect availability too). Still the bulk being $3.99 or less. I've noticed that even the established authors, like Dana Stanbow (Kate Shugak's author) will put the first book or two of a long series at a low price to get you to pay full price for the later books in the series. I fall prey to that occasionally.
When it comes to audio books, membership in Audibile.com has really helped keep those costs down. A good unabridged audiobook costs around $20 or more. I pay a montly membership feed for which I get a credit that will purchase most books they have for sale. Plus, as a member I can go to their $4.95 promotional books (Where I found the first three Monster Hunter International books, and Pandora's Star) so that cuts the price of audiobooks down tremendously.
So the short answer (after the long one) a synopsis if you will, would be that I buy more books between $0.00 and $3.99 than anything, and more full priced books which usually start around 8-14 dollars than books inbetween the two ends.
When it comes to actually reading them, I read nearly all of the higher priced books as soon as I get them, and, while waiting for my next financial windfall or the next "good book" to come along, I spend the time with the low end (price wise) e-books. So, pick up more free books, "yes," read more free books, "maybe not, it's close."
I think some Indie books are Inherently Superior. That's not to say they all are but lets just say that if some of them had a team of proofreaders and editors working on them, they'd out do quite a few mainstream authors.
Patti wrote: "Now I have a separate question. Are you folk who who own e-readers (I don't.), buying new books at all? I mean, are you buying books for $4-$10, or are you sticking with free and $.99?"Patti, I have not bought one brand new bestseller title for my kindle and I have had it for a little over two years. There is NO WAY I would pay $12.99 for a new release in digital format. I have on rare occasion spent $9.99 for a title I couldn't find in the library or the dead tree price was too exorbitant. Probably 75% of my kindle purchases have been kindle daily deals, special sales or indie titles. Right now I have 237 books on my kindle and most of them have been between .99 - 4.99, with some free titles.
Patti wrote: "Now I have a separate question. Are you folk who who own e-readers (I don't.), buying new books at all? I mean, are you buying books for $4-$10, or are you sticking with free and $.99?"Even before I owned a e-reader, which I've had for a couple of years now, I only bought paperbacks. I enjoy reading and to go out and spend $12.99 or more for a new release just isn't possible for my pocket book. I thought 6.99 was a resonable price for a paperback. What really irked me was when I read a series and after the first 4 or 5 books came out the author decided to release the next series in hard cover for $14.99+. Since I can't afford to pay that I would have to wait 10 months to a year for the paperback to come out. I don't read that many paperbacks anymore. I guess it's just easier with the e-reader. I will pay between free and 6.99 for a ebook.
Patti wrote: "Now I have a separate question. Are you folk who who own e-readers (I don't.), buying new books at all? I mean, are you buying books for $4-$10, or are you sticking with free and $.99?"My book purchases remain the same as when I did not have an e-reader. Pre-Kindle, I had some favorite authors/series that I bought as soon as they came out because I knew I liked them well enough to want to keep and re-read. Any books by new-to-me authors and authors who were 'good but not re-read' came via the library, I didn't buy hoping I'd like them that well.
Now with the Kindle, same process. If I like what an author writes well enough that I want that book to keep and re-read, I buy it and I will, if necessary, pay the same price for that book for Kindle as I would if purchasing a hardback. Actually, because I know have a much wider selection through free downloads, I now purchase more books than I did when I was limited to what I could find through the books carried by the library.
Otherwise, for all new-to-me authors and non-reread books, I restrict myself to the free downloads, library downloads or wait for one of my library trips.
Patti wrote: "Now I have a separate question. Are you folk who who own e-readers (I don't.), buying new books at all? I mean, are you buying books for $4-$10, or are you sticking with free and $.99?"Thanks for the comments, ladies and gents. I just wondered how much trouble the major publishers (and we who published through them) are in.
message 20:
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The Pirate Ghost, Long John Silvers Wanna-be
(last edited Nov 29, 2012 11:13AM)
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Mod
Another way to look at it is, about 3-4 years ago (maybe 2) it was announced that e-book sales had passed up all print sales as the number one, or chosen media for books in the US. Last year the U.K. said the same thing. This doesn't mean that publisher produced books are being outsold, only that e-books are outselling print books.
You can go on Amazon and look at the "Top 100 books with a price" and "the top free books" in each catagory and/or over all. I think you'll find that age plays a role in this too. It's a crude resource for comparison, but you can probably look at the number of people who gave an Amzon "Star Rating" to the books as a means of comparing numbers. It's not scientific but, I'd bet, in a pinch, the ratio of people who pick up free e-books to people who write reviews and take the time to "rate" an e-book is similar to the ratio of people who pay for e-books and take the time to rate them. (Which is probably about 1 in 40 people who buy it.)
And by the way, I like your idea of coming into the book store and asking for a book, then having the sails clerk go "did you want that as an e-book, an audio book, paperback or hard copy.
In fact, I can see a virtual kiosk on line where you can do that...hmm.. with Amazon's joint venture with Audible.com they almost do that now. (Actually, i think that they do.) though they are dependent on the market to provide their hard copies rather than produce them themselves on demand.
I really think the future for publishers lies in marketing "Services" to writers, any writer, for a fee, a commission or a percentage of sales and less them picking winners and loosers (the market will do that well enough).
People do that sort of thing now, but the quality and scope of services are limited compared to what publishers actually do. If a few more "assets" could get together at the same time, they would have something worth offering.
Just my thoughts...not that I'm any kind of expert.
S.L.J. wrote: "I think some Indie books are Inherently Superior. That's not to say they all are but lets just say that if some of them had a team of proofreaders and editors working on them, they'd out do quite a..."I agree with you, but I have a follow up question that has been mentioned here and in other places where Iv'e been having this discussion; how exactly do you find those books that are superior to the rest, especially considering the volume of books that are released every month?
... how exactly do you find those books that are superior to the rest, especially considering the volume of books that are released every month?"That is a heck of a good question, Gamal. And that is what, as of now, publishers offer and indies don't have. They promote themselves and their books, and in effect, promote the author.
Mod
I go to kindle books, then pick a genre, then slect four star and up (refering to the rating), then sort by low to high (price). That bings up free books first that are 4 star and above (Rated by Amazon Customers etc.) then I look for the books with lots of ratings, as in, a higher number than the number of family and friends that still talk to this author.
Method 2,
Go with goodread recommendations from people on Goodreads who write reviews. That's how i found Monster Hunter International.
The Blog-o-sphere is starting to be a good place for authors to self-promote/be promoted. The problem is that it's almost as hard for a blog to get a following as it is a new Indie author.
There are lots of book-blogers who review books and even conduct interviews. Some of them are actually very good at interviewing. Some aren't, either way, if the blog is well followed word starts getting out that way. it's sort of a self licking ice cream cone though. Bloggers want authors that are popular, authors want bloggers with a lot of followers (circulation).
My thoughts on your question, Gamal. For me, I use to go on Amazon and read what other people thought of in the genre I was interred in a and then if the book look interesting and something I would like, I bought it. I really don't go there anymore. Now with Goodreads I received so many choices for what to read I don't have to really search that far anymore. I can't find anything I want to read right here.
Mod
You have a good point Eileen. The truth is, what I described (my "process") is how I find a lot of books just tooling around. But, after reading your post, I realize that I haven't done that in....months?
It's still how I would go through Amazon if I'm just looking for a "what ever" to read for free, but, most of the books I read I hear about through Goodreads, and is liked by my GR Friends or mentioned on a thread like this one, and that has been far and above the more successful way of finding books that I like. (That would be Method 2, in my last post).
I also am more prone to take a chance on a book with no reviews (for free) now than before. Truth be told the Method one (combing 4 star reviews and up) does filter a lot of junk for me, but, it also filters out new books that are free today, but are going to go up in price as word about them spreads.
Which brings us to another thing. Professional packaging counts with me. Sure, I don't want to be the guy who judges a book by it's cover, yet, when it comes down to it, if I'm talking about Indie pubs, knowing that there is a higher ratio of junk to good stuff than with publishers produced books, the more professional the cover, the write up on the back, maybe even the author's photograph is, the more likely I am to try it.
and to make it more twisted, I read a kindle so, I rarely see the covers after I buy them.
I tried my hand at making trailers which is basically like an indi author trying their hand at publishing a novel.I Am Legend Trailer
Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Hugh! My first good point of the day and probably the only one. The best place for free books is still Amazon, Hugh. You're right about that. I have a Nook and they don't make it that easy to find those freebies. I do have a Kindle app on my phone and with a almost 6 inch screen I can read just fine and take advantage of the free books from Kindle.
Now covers...that's opening a whole new can of worms. With e-readers do you pay attention to the cover? Do you think it's worth it for the author to spend the money for the professional covers knowing your book will first be viewed by people with e-readers?
I, Curmudgeon wrote: "Eileen wrote: "My thoughts on your question, Gamal. For me, I use to go on Amazon and read what other people thought of in the genre I was interred in a and then if the book look interesting and ... Professional packaging counts with me. Sure, I don't want to be the guy who judges a book by it's cover, yet, when it comes down to it, if I'm talking about Indie pubs, knowing that there is a higher ratio of junk to good stuff than with publishers produced books, the more professional the cover, the write up on the back, maybe even the author's photograph is, the more likely I am to try it. ..."This is an interesting discussion. It sure tells me that indie authors need to create a presence on Goodreads. But how many members does this group have?
And all well-worn advice to the contrary notwithstanding, we do judge books by their cover. My writing friends pray to the "Cover Gods" to be given a good cover by the publisher. A good cover will sell a poor book, and visa versa. A bad cover will deep-six it. Sad, but true. But of course, that isn't the whole thing.
One good article of publicity is worth about a jillion promotions. Romantic Times interviewed me just before my third book came out. No idea why. But the book sold out on pre-orders before it came out. And no, Harl does not do another print run. One shot is all you get.
(They really don't treat their authors very well.)
S.L.J. wrote: "I tried my hand at making trailers which is basically like an indi author trying their hand at publishing a novel.I Am Legend Trailer
Let me know what you think."
Good trailer, S. L. J.! I am intrigued.
Patti wrote: "I, Curmudgeon wrote: "Eileen wrote: "My thoughts on your question, Gamal. For me, I use to go on Amazon and read what other people thought of in the genre I was interred in a and then if the book ..."Good question, Patti. I had to do a little research and on Goodreads alone there's over 12,000,000 million members. Roughly over 40,000 different clubs. This group we are fairly new and we have over 400 members and growing everyday. Plus, I think we are the only Action/Adventure group on Goodreads.
Patti wrote: "S.L.J. wrote: "I tried my hand at making trailers which is basically like an indi author trying their hand at publishing a novel.I Am Legend Trailer
Let me know what you think."
Good trailer, S..."
YAY!! I can do something right afterall :D
S.L.J. wrote: "I tried my hand at making trailers which is basically like an indi author trying their hand at publishing a novel.I Am Legend Trailer
Let me know what you think."
Sorry I missed your post before.
Well Done! I would definitely watch that movie from watching your trailer!
Eileen wrote: "Patti wrote: "I, Curmudgeon wrote: "Eileen wrote: "My thoughts on your question, Gamal. For me, I use to go on Amazon and read what other people thought of in the genre I was interred in a and the..."Wow, Eileen, that is a lot of folk! Authors, pay attention.
S.L.J.--You, indeed, did do that trailer right.
Patti wrote: "Eileen wrote: "Patti wrote: "I, Curmudgeon wrote: "Eileen wrote: "My thoughts on your question, Gamal. For me, I use to go on Amazon and read what other people thought of in the genre I was interr..."FEELS! *ODE TO JOY MOMENT* ...And calm.
Gamal wrote: "As authors and readers, do you feel that in the current market the quality of a traditionally published books is always superior to the quality of a self published book? http://bit.ly/Qwi83d
Tha..."
I've found that there are bad and good traditional and self published novels. The issue is for me that there are just so many more books in general being published now that it's hard to find the real gems.
LOL, S.L.J.!!I've read more new authors and might never have read, if I hadn't joined Goodreads.
Authors and publishers should pay attention, Patti.
Jonathan wrote: "Gamal wrote: "As authors and readers, do you feel that in the current market the quality of a traditionally published books is always superior to the quality of a self published book? http://bit...."
I feel the same way, it does get a little overwhelming at times.
Eileen wrote: "I've read more new authors and might never have read, if I hadn't joined Goodreads."Exactly. Goodreads ... and the free lists on Amazon for my Kindle.
Pre-Kindle my only real source for new authors was the local library, which is naturally a pretty mainstream source for traditionally published hardbacks. No real second hand book shops with cheap paperbacks which I used to utilize.
The books I routinely bought were all the new books by authors that I was familiar enough with to know I would like.
With the big increase in access to new authors via self publishing and e-book downloads, I'm now routinely buying books by at least 6 new authors. That is a tremendous increase in numbers for me in the year I've had my Kindle, as my previous additions totaled just three new authors in five years from just library access.
Eileen wrote: "LOL, S.L.J.!!I've read more new authors and might never have read, if I hadn't joined Goodreads.
Authors and publishers should pay attention, Patti."
Hell, it's like looking for a needle in a stack of slightly rusted needles.
message 42:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Literary Adrenaline Junkie
(last edited Dec 06, 2012 01:12AM)
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With sites like Goodreads, authors have some really helpful tools available, so long as they use the tools in a helpful way. In other words, connect to readers in a friendly, open manner, which allows for readers to make their own minds up about what books to read and what they think about those books, and to not be pressured in choosing to read them and rate them positively if they don't like the book. Sorry for the long run-on sentence!
Self-publishing is changing the publishing industry at warp speed, and given writers a freedom they seldom had before. I’m sure I’m repeating someone’s observations here. In the previous model, particularly after publishers farmed out the search for writers to agents, books took on a cookie-cutter feel. I’m generalizing here. Agents were focused on what they could sell, so novels had to fall into tightly-configured genres and styles. High-concept became the watchword. Frequent rejections read something like, “you’re a good writer, but I can’t sell this;” or “I love this but I can’t sell it because it doesn’t fit into a specific genre or isn’t ‘high-concept’ enough.” Or my least favorite: "This isn't on the publisher's list."Of course with freedom, there’s a lot of writers whose work isn’t well edited, even though the concept may be terrific. Or an untried concept might not work well—like painting Mona Lisa with orange hair. The technique may be new and unique, but if it takes you out of the moment, it isn’t appreciated. Likewise, anything that pulls you out of a book, spoils the work and the writer’s intent.
On the plus side of traditional publishing, books were for the most part well crafted and edited, with 16 editors making sure the work was as good as it could be. That’s lacking in self –publishing, and the writer has to put extra effort into the editing process. In this new world, who now provides the filter to say what’s good or not? That’s where I think Goodreads plays a vital role. Readers provide their own critiques, and as they band together into like-minded groups, they fill the filtering role as they rely on one another to recommend worthy books. I think it's a great model.
i am a self published author and released my first thriller on all good ebook stores a couple of weeks back.i am also a consumer of 'published' fiction.
the only difference between 'published' fiction and self published fiction is that the former has a support system for authors and the latter doesn't.in the latter, the author does everything himself.
does that mean 'published' fiction will deliver a better product?
that depends on what you define a product. if you are looking for good covers, sophisticated publicity, then yes 'published' fiction will have an edge.
if you are looking for a good story by way of product, then the percentage of good 'published' books will not be any higher than that of indie books. in fact the % of good indie stories will be higher simply because of access to go-to-market for indie authors.
yes there are many indie books that can be better edited and have basic syntax errors and these deserve to be pointed out.
it is all too easy to sit in the comfort of one's living room and do a 'Simon Cowell' on an indie writer.
at the end of the day a self published author decided to stick his head above the parapet and put his writing out there for the market to decide, without the cushion of a publishing house to insulate him.
that takes more courage than many readers think and i wish readers and reviewers take that into cognizance.
self publishing is here to stay. that does not mean traditional publishing will die. it will have to change the way traditional music publishers have had to.
in the music world, indie music co-exists with traditional record labels and it will be no different in the publishing world.
By average yes, but there are quite a few exceptions. The problem is that the market is flooding with a bunch of people, who have no business writing anything for profit for the next decade, thinking they can get rich quick through self publishing. They say the cream will rise through the top but people have to sift through loads of garbage to find it. It seems to me that the cream is minimal, so its hanging out in a small, hard to find, pocket on top.I don't post much but I lurk the Kindle self publishing forums quite a bit and when some of these supposed authors put up their works, asking for advice because it's not selling, it is almost always cringe worthy. Sixteen year olds that just started writing in general are putting up things that would be a B paper in school as sales material.
I'm a very hard working independent author. I'm 100% sure that my works could be published but I choose for a number of reasons not to go that route. The main one is not wanting for work for a giant corporation that only gives you 5% of the profits on your works, which they also now own. The idea of getting into writing just to be an employee is counter-intuitive to why I started. I work HARD on my material, putting in over 1500 hours on my last project, but I hear other self pub authors whining or bragging about doing 200-400. The difference certainly shows. I'm certain that I have my errors down to 99.99% or less and every time I thought it was my final time going through and editing the document, I did it again, despite it being 450 pages. Then when I was done that time, I'd do it again. Altogether, I ran through it 8 times, also jam packing it with additional content while trimming the fat from earlier.
So, yeah...I felt like rambling. :p
i don't see why people should not write and publish if they want to, irrespective of the quality of their writing.anyone can start a business....and fail, so why should it be different for self publishing?
cream will rise to the top and if you believe in your book and work hard at promoting it, it will get noticed. most authors, including me, do not put in the effort to get it noticed.
I see where you're coming from and I would totally agree if it wasn't so rampant. The point is that with the way it is now, its realistic that in as least some cases it doesn't matter how much effort is put in. There is so much crap diluting the market that it is eclipsing much of the good stuff.If anything, a fresh approach needs to be taken to better separate the works.
Maybe what we need is a community of volunteer proof readers who agree to non disclosure for the opportunity to read first and free in exchange for corrections suggestions and feedback...?
On GR, we have a community of volunteer reviewers that help separate the wheat from the chaff. Some of us do help proofread for the opportunity to read for free. I go through a couple of dozen books that way every year & have discovered some wonderful authors that way.I think it's a real shame that independent authors have so much trouble finding reliable, affordable editors. It would be a public service to post links to them if anyone knows of any.
But the problem is deeper than that. I don't think people understand how much garbage is released, daily. I don't have the exact number off-hand, but from what i hear, there are about 20,000 self pub works being published a day. It's ridiculous. Now, me as the guy who busted his butt to write a legitimate novel, and then edited it for a thousand hours, has to find some sort of untapped source of marketing that a hundred thousand other people couldn't just to get ahead of all the sewage. I don't want to come across as whiny because I'm doing the work and working on solutions but it needs to be stated that it is a legitimate problem.
I'm a creative enough guy that I could probably find a realistic solution, but between writing, marketing, school, working and the fact that it is not within my power to fix anything, what can I (in general, anyone really) do about it?
Action/Adventure Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
First Light Chronicles Limbo (other topics)Wool Omnibus (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Randolph Lalonde (other topics)Hugh Howey (other topics)
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Thanks.
Gamal