The Mark of Athena
discussion
who of the 7 is the strongest?
Nahte wrote: "Jason isn't so much stuck up as flat, he doesn't really have evolution or even much of a character besides trying to be some sort of kid-general. At least that's how I remember him, I just don't li..."Jason has a personality though, most people can't see it because they can't relate to him. For those who know MBTI types, he is an INTJ, one of the rarest and least understood.
I have no idea what MBTI or INTJ are, although the MB makes me think Military Base. As for it, that's still amounts to the same thing, I can't relate to him, I don't like him, and I don't see a lot of progression for him, maybe it's just my bias, but that's how I see it.
Hera brought the seven most powerful demigods that she felt were necessary to defeat Gaea. I'm totally team PERCY all the way, because he is just fabulous.
To summarize what you peoples said about Percy being the most powerful and to add something on...
Jason's most powerful ability is lightning, but he can only summon a couple of bolts. Then he just can't anymore for a long time. Percy has never once not been able to control water because he just can't. He only ever gets tired after doing something really really major, like summoning a huge hurricane! And remember in the Labyrinth, in the middle of a volcano, how he remembered that the water was inside him, and he didn't need an ocean to summon it? Jason can't summon lightning away from his power source, but Percy can summon water away from his. And like someone else said, (I forget who) if Jason tried to summon lightning underwater, Percy could just block that lightning with water. His water would then become imbued with Jason's lightning, and Percy could use it against him. Jason can only breathe underwater until his Venti run out, and he has to find Venti first. And even when he does go underwater, he is at a complete disadvantage, it's Percy's home territory. Percy has also defeated much more powerful enemies. The only titan Jason ever fought was Krios, some minor titan of some stupid star that no one knows or cares about. Percy has fought Atlas, Iapetus, Hyperion and Kronos himself, and WON! He has also fought many more major monsters, like Kampe, Polyphemus, the minotaur when he had NO SWORD OR TRAINING, Medusa, the Gorgons, a giant son of Gaea in the Labyrinth, the Nemean Lion, and many more that I can't even remember! He also fought more giants than Jason! Jason fought Enceladus once, Porphyrion twice, Otis and Ephialtes once, Clytius, and that's pretty much IT. Percy has fought one giant son of Gaea and Poseidon that I can't remember the name of, Alcyoneus, Polybotes twice, Otis and Ephialtes twice, and many more giants including Porphyrion during the final showdown with the giants in BOO. He also survived TARTARUS AND WAS ABOUT TO FACE TARTARUS HIMSELF!
Nice himself said it in MOA.
Also, remember in The Sea of Monsters, how everyone said that Percy was the best sword fighter in the last 300 years, second only to Luke? No where in HOO has Jason come close to equaling Percy's skill, and Luke is DEAD, so Percy not only bests Jason at the contest of powers, but also in fighting.
You shouldn't pass off Annabeth either. She is super smart, and has outsmarted many of the most powerful beings. She could take any of the Seven using her wits, and remember, she's also a very good fighter. The only person she probably couldn't beat in a fight would be Percy, but they would never fight.
Leo is actually quite resourceful, as he has proven on many occasions, using his hands and technical genius to get him out of things. But here's the thing: While he does have fire, it's proven to be not completely under his control, as his body parts burst into flames randomly based on his emotional state. It's unstable. And he's no good with weapons! He's never really used them at all in HOO! In the final showdown with the giants, he dropped hammers on their heads and rushed around repairing the ship! Don't get me wrong, I'm totally team LEO as well, he just isn't the most powerful.
Frank. While his shapeshifting power does seem to have some of the most potential, like Leo's fire, it's emotionally unstable, and there are many times when he isn't able to shapeshift at all, whether it's because he's too surprised, upset, sleepy, or he's just lacking control at the moment, or it just won't work for him for some reason! That is his main ability. His fighting is just a little bit above average, but it doesn't rival Percy or Annabeth's, and probably not Jason's either.
Hazel. Her skills with the mist are important, but she can't hold them up while she is fighting, and they don't work as well on someone who knows what to expect, and someone who is expecting her to use them. Her fighting is pretty great, and she does have Arion, but Percy could probably exercise control over the horse if need be, because of his father. Hazels' power over gems is also cool, but all Percy needs to do is get her in water (he can summon some) or just get her so distracted that she can't concentrate.
Piper. Her charmspeak is pretty powerful, but the heroes would know what to expect, it's no good against people who know how to stop it, and you can't assume that she could FEEL her way through a fight with one of the Seven. Her sword fighting is average, and she could probably be taken down in a fight just with weapons, no magic, by any o the seven, except for Leo. My point is, also, her charmspeak is emotionally unstable, and when she panics, which she seems to do quite a lot, she doesn't think about what she says, so instead of using it cleverly, she tries to force it on people.
It's super hard to decide, because each of the seven are extremely powerful in their own way, but, in a smackdown between themselves, these would be the winners in order:
1. Percy
2. Annabeth
3. Jason
4. Hazel
5. Frank
6. Leo
7. Piper.
Don't get me wrong, I love all of them. But overall, Percy has more powerful magical abilities, and is better at fighting.
Grace wrote: "Hera brought the seven most powerful demigods that she felt were necessary to defeat Gaea. I'm totally team PERCY all the way, because he is just fabulous.
To summarize what you peoples said ab..."
Water conducts electricity. Which mean if Jason hit water wit lightning, regardess of whether Percy is willing the water to make him wet or not, will electrocute Percy.
Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Water conducts electricity. Which means if Jason hit water with lightning, regardless of whether Percy is willing the water to make him wet or not..."Yes, theoretically the water would electrocute Percy, but like I said before, even that fact is only a small portion of why Percy is stronger. It's a small fact against many others. AND think about it this way. If Percy got electrocuted in water, the water would just heal him, and that's assuming Jason is even strong enough to call down lightning at that point. Besides, Percy could just control the water around the lightning, containing it, before turning it back towards Jason. You can't turn water against Percy, because he has such powerful control over it, but if you got a hit on Jason with lightning, especially in water, Jason would be electrocuted. Jason could control the lightning that was about to hit him, but if he's in water, then he's away from his source of power.
Grace wrote: "Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Water conducts electricity. Which means if Jason hit water with lightning, regardless of whether Percy is willing the water to make him wet or not..."Yes, theoretically..."
Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits to kill twenty men. And besides, the water doesn't need to be touching Percy for it to hit him. Electricity can jump from water to an object, and that is why weathermen say not to stand by bodies of water when it is storming out.
Annabeth clearly has the most power in knowledge and cleverness.
Strongest of the seven: A tie between Jason and Percy. Strongest in the series: Nico di Angelo. No competition.
It's as clear as that.
Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits..."Again. Even the fact that water conducts electricity is only a SMALL portion as to why Percy is more powerful than Jason. Read my first post again to get all of the reasons.
But as to this one. Assuming Jason can even summon enough lightning bolts, and remember, he can't summon that many in a day, if a lightning bolt jumped from water to Percy, Percy would be aware of it, because if his connection with water, he would be able to realize what was going on and dodge it (Jason has never shown the ability to make a lightning bolt move like, say a rope,to follow someone, so it's possible to doge the bolts), rather than if Jason just tried to electrocute him normally.
Not that Jason would ever really think of, or dare to use water to conduct electricity when fighting Percy, because water is Percy's biggest power.
And again, this is only one of the reasons that Percy is more powerful. Like I said before. It's one fact against the many that proves that Percy is more powerful.
Again. This is only a sm
sorry, forget that last little sentence.
Grace wrote: "Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits..."Again. Even the fact that water conducts electricity is only a SMALL port..."
Jason is very smart, so I am sure if he were ever to fight Percy to the death, he would assess all of his weaknesses. He thinks everything over before he acts or makes a decision.
Also, as you said, the water/electricity thing is only a small part of the point. There are many other reasons why Jason is stronger than Percy.
1. Jason has many more years of experience. He was raised by Lupa and in the legion since he was only two years old. Percy only got to camp when he was twelve.
2. Jason is better at swordfighting. This is shown in the facts when you consider how many times Percy has been disarmed and knocked down. Also, Percy has had less training time and is out of practice.
3. Percy is basically powerless in battle without his sword or a water source. Jason learned hand to hand combat at Camp Jupiter.
4. Jason is more intelligent. He knows lots of facts and is a better strategist. He also thinks about the possible outcomes to all of his actions. Percy acts all the time without thinking, and to quote Annabeth, he is a "dumb risk taker".
5. Jason has more aspects to his son of Zeus powers. He can, in addition to controling lightning, control all electricity, conrol air, control storms (including the water in it), he can control eagles, and control storm spirits. Percy can control water and hurricanes.
6. Jason is also better at controling himself. Percy is known to mouth off and almost get killed, along with whoever is with him, by a god or a monster. Jason can control his sarcasric side. Percy is known to have a temper, as shown when he wanted to strangle the hunters of Artemis (when Annabeth wanted to join), when he shoved a bunch of half-bloods following Kronos down a flight of stairs (when he bombed the Princess Andromeda), and when he tried killing Anchlys with her own bodily fluids. Jason remains very calm and it takes alot to get him angry.
7. Jason is more emotionally strong and stable. Percy can get very angry, sad, or frustrated in a short amount of time. He basically goes through mood swings. Percy makes his decisions based off of his emotions, which causes problems. Jason doesn't let his emotions guide his major decisions and lets logic decide the outcome.
8. Jason doesn't let love control him. Percy is too smitten with Annabeth to think for himself and he revolves his whole world around her. He risks the fate of the world jn order to save her. Jason doesn't let his relationship with Piper get in the way with the quest or the fate of humanity.
As you see, Jason outweighs Percy in many more aspects and not just electricity vs. Water.
Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Grace wrote: "Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits..."Again. Even the fact that water conducts electricity is onl..."
There are several things here I'd debate, but most of those are more opinion based such as skill, seeing as we see Percy fight more of course he get's disarmed more, than again he has a lot more training with one-on-one, something Jason wouldn't or whether Percy's emotions or mouth would hinder him(heck, they might help him, they have before), but I digress.
One major thing I'd like to disagree with I that Jason has more of his father's 'aspects', no. Percy doesn't just control water and create hurricanes, he can control just about any liquid(as shown when he controls liquid POISON), can cause earthquakes, control boats/see animals/horses, and has an unreal pain tolerance. While many things about this fight are debatable, this is not, Percy has more powers than Jason.
but none of us are biased by the fact that we read an enitre series about how freaking amazing percy is, are we? lol, no.. I think each one has their strenghts but I also think that their are good power partnerships like percy and annabeth and Leo and Jason
Ash wrote: "but none of us are biased by the fact that we read an enitre series about how freaking amazing percy is, are we? lol, no.. I think each one has their strenghts but I also think that their are good ..."I agree completely, and have stated this, I love Percy, I try to give Jason a chance, but Percy will always be number 1 to me, and until I see something concrete that says Jason has ANYTHING over Percy I won't care about it. I do try to be as fair to Jason as possible though, and he is strong, and I like his partnership with Leo, he'll just always be second to me.
The only way Jason could possibly beat Percy in is Archery, but the Romans never really used bows and arrows, so Jason is probably just as bad as Percy in archery. Also, when Percy is in water he has supernatural strength, power, intelligence, etc. When Jason is in the sky, it doesn't do any thing for him.
Percy doesn't just fight based on pure emotion, otherwise he would not have been able to defeat Polybotes in The Son of Neptune. I mean, defeating a giant with a sword and Terminus' head is pretty damn clever.
Plus, Percy's control over water is much greater than Jason's control over lightning. Percy can summon a riptide without a problem, whereas a lightning bolt takes a lot more energy from Jason.
Percy's loyalty to his friends means that he won't betray them, whereas with Jason we never know.
But in my opinion, Percy = Jason, Annabeth = Reyna, Frank = Leo, Hazel > Piper, while Nico and Coach Hedge have their own personalities.
"Cleopatraselene2 wrote: Grace wrote: "Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits..."Again. Even the fact that water conducts electricity is onl..."
Anton wrote: "The only way Jason could possibly beat Percy in is Archery, but the Romans never really used bows and arrows, so Jason is probably just as bad as Percy in archery.
Also, when Percy is in water he..."
I agree with you, Anton, and there are several things that I would like to discuss.
First, Cleopatraselene2:
1. Jason has had more years of experience, yet he has never once in the book been shown to have a major advantage over Percy, and you have to agree that Percy has fought more with more powerful beings than Jason has, with, like you pointed out, LESS EXPERIENCE! In fact, he defeated the minotaur with no experience at all.
2. Jason is not better at sword fighting. When it comes to weapons, Jason is in general better at a wider range of weapons, because Percy has only really ever focused on sword fighting, and, again, even though Percy has had less training time he has defeated more powerful beings. Percy tends to get disarmed a lot because he ends up fighting more powerful opponents, and actually looking back, he only seems to get disarmed more than Jason, because Jason rarely has the opportunity to get disarmed. He's unconscious or too injured or tired to fight. Leading on that point, as many people have said before, Percy has shown an inhumane pain tolerance and endurance, whereas Jason gets tired easily and can't seem to handle as much pain as Percy can, and this is Percy without the curse of Achilles.
3. You seem to be disregarding all of the times that Percy has 1. kept an enemy at bay when he doesn't have his sword and 2. called on the water within him self to give himself power. He doesn't need water around him to use it. As an example, in BOO in the final fight, Percy loses his sword while helping someone, and fends off Porphyrion without it.
4. While Percy does take stupid risks at times, he does have some good battle strategy and fighting techniques that many people don't give him credit for. While he isn't a genius, he isn't as stupid as he looks or acts.
5. While there are many aspects to Jason's powers, there are also many to Percy's powers. Percy can do many things with water, by manipulating it. He can manipulate ANY LIQUID IN THE UNIVERSE, create mass explosions, cause earthquakes, control boats, sea animals, horses, breathe underwater etc. AND Percy has much more control over water. Controlling water never takes energy from him, whereas flying, controlling venti, and summoning lightning etc. take a lot out of Jason. When Percy is in water, it heals him, gives him supernatural strength, power, intelligence etc. (to quote Anton) whereas the sky never does that for Jason. Water has never not "listened" to Percy where Jason seems to routinely not be able to call on lightning, or summon Tempest, or control winds spirits, or fly, especially if he is too tired. Leading on to that, like I said, Percy has an almost unreal endurance and pain tolerance. Jason gets tired easily.
6. Yes, Percy does sometimes have trouble controlling his emotions, but that doesn't make him any weaker than Jason, and has never inhibited him in a fight. And, may I point out, when he controlled the poison in Akhlys, he only cracked because of where he was, in freakin' TARTARUS! Jason has never been under that much emotional and physical strain and terror that Percy faced there, it's only a sign of his strength that he didn't completely crack while he was there. Don't use that as an example for him being emotionally weak, if anything, it's at example of him being emotionally strong.
7. Percy sometimes goes through mood swings, but like I said, as obvious as it is with how many beings he has defeated, it's never really inhibited his fighting. And he doesn't just fight based on emotion, he does have more technical fighting skill than Jason.
8. Actually, Percy's fatal flaw is his loyalty and love to his friends. While Jason does know his duty as a Roman, many times, Percy's loyalty has saved the world, and it has never proved to be his downfall, as Athena predicted.
I'm trying to look at this whole Percy vs. Jason situation with an unbiased point of view. It's true, I do feel like when R. Riordan first introduced Jason, I almost refused to read the book, because Percy was my favorite, and sometimes Jason just feels like a watered down version of Percy. This might be because I think R. Riordan wanted to introduce another bunch of characters that were great heroes like Percy, Thalia, Annabeth etc. but because we didn't have any entire series's that were dedicated to each new hero specifically, it felt like the new heroes in HOO were rushed, and their powers weren't as specific, detailed, and developed as Percy's were.
Percy still outweighs Jason though, in many more aspects than one.
1. Percy2.Jason
3.Frank
4.Leo
5.Hazel
6.Annabeth
7.Piper
1.Jason2.Percy
3.Leo
4.Frank
5.Annabeth
6.Piper
7.Hazel
Percy is not as good as Jason in my opinion
OK, now any particular reason or do you just like Jason more?
Nahte wrote: "Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Grace wrote: "Cleopatraselene2 wrote: "Jason can't be electrocuted because he was hit with enough electricity by the storm spirits..."Again. Even the fact that water co..."
It is mentioned in the Percy Jackson's Greek Heroes that Percy can't create earthquakes. And, in the Heroes of Olympus series there was never an opportunity for Jason to see if he could control planes. It is also noted that giant eagles were looking at Jason for orders because of his son of Zeus powers. Also, Jason does have an unreal pain tolerance as he has been stabbe with an imperial gold sword and survived through thr whole thing. When Percy was nicked by celestial bronze, he got super weak super fast. And he was just scratched.
When was Percy being hit made him weak? Wen he had the curse that's now gone I think, which is something completely different, and Percy definitely made an earthquake to awaken Typhon.
@Cleopatraselene2, acutally, Jason's wound, if you'd bothered to examine it more closely, was more emotionally and personally related, than on a physical level. So he wasn't overcoming physical pain like Percy can. It was just his conflict about his mother. And when did Percy get hit that made him weak?
Nahte wrote: "When was Percy being hit made him weak? Wen he had the curse that's now gone I think, which is something completely different, and Percy definitely made an earthquake to awaken Typhon."He was hit in a fight with Luke on the Princess Andromeda. He did not use earthquake powers to make the explosion. The pressure from the water and steam in the volcano caused it.
Grace wrote: "@Cleopatraselene2, acutally, Jason's wound, if you'd bothered to examine it more closely, was more emotionally and personally related, than on a physical level. So he wasn't overcoming physical pa..."He collasped from pain after a day or so. It is mentioned. Being stabbed ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE ABDOMEN is pretty painful, not to mention the fact that Piper pulled the sword out, which in normal circumstances is very dangerous and painful.
And Percy got nicked in a fight with Luke on the Princess Andromeda.
I will accept Percy not being able to use earthquakes, not like I'm an expert, but Percy got hit several times fighting Atlas and that didn't do anything, so there has to be a different explanation to Percy losing to a nick.
Yeah, I agree with Nahte. Honestly, if we are talking about when Luke was Kronos, then remember that Kronos's skythe could severe your sould from your body. Yes, Jason got stabbed through the abdomen. Nothing Percy hasn't also had happen to him.
1. Annabeth- Who else found a statue lost ages ago and that too all alone? And she's a great fighter, she's smart and even though she doesn't have a special power and yet can face such things including Tartarus!2. Piper- Come on! She is the first Aphrodite child I absolutely love and it's surprising how strong she is. She grows so much in the series. She becomes one of the strongest people in the series. In the end during the battle against Giants and Gaia, she is so strong.
3. Percy- Do I need to explain this?
4. Hazel- Come on! She came back from the dead and then goes through so much and remains so strong!
5. Leo- I love Leo, and I had to place him above Jason!
6. Jason- He's amazing. That flying thing is amazing.
7. Frank- Yes, he can turn into animals but I just love the others more. He was awesome but I love the others more!
It's not about who you love more, you have to look at it from an analytical point of view, so you aren't biased. Although I do agree, Annabeth is definitely one of the strongest.
Can Leo actually have a one on one sword fight with anybody?
No, but he could just get to hot for any of them to come near and fling things at him, except Percy who is fire resistant.
I think Hazel is the strongest. She manipulates magic, get jewelry from the ground, shadow travel (briefly), and can find underground places, and SO MUCH MORE.
I'm just gonna put this out there, Percy could be like a blood bender out of Avatar the Last air bender and use the water in a persons body to make them explode, but Percy isn't that evil.
Jesse wrote: "I'm just gonna put this out there, Percy could be like a blood bender out of Avatar the Last air bender and use the water in a persons body to make them explode, but Percy isn't that evil."Yeah, he can, remember what he did to Akhylys in HOH?
Percy and Nico
Jason could be really good but he is such a under-developed character
isnt nico part of the seven-ish
1.Percy2.Nico/Jason (Nico would be if he was part of the seven)
3.Leo
4.Frank
5.Hazel
6.Annabeth
7.Piper*
*PIPER IS SOOOO WEAK SHE DOES NOTHING!!!!
krystal wrote: "they're each strong in their own waypiper is VERY strong, if you can convince anyone to do anything you can convince Gaea to just stand down.
unfortunately rick wasn't very good at writing it."
Actually, Rick did write it well, it's just that Piper was a slightly superficial character and instead of focusing on any unique talents she had specifically, they tried to make it so that she could fight with a sword as well.
Grace wrote: "krystal wrote: "they're each strong in their own waypiper is VERY strong, if you can convince anyone to do anything you can convince Gaea to just stand down.
unfortunately rick wasn't very good ..."
Piper could be powerful buuuutttt......all she does is complains and whines....and talks about Jason's eyes, she is I'm sorry but she sucks. She complains how she's so weak and IM LIKE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT UGH SHE BUGS ME, I don't like hate her I just can't stand her
In all fairness, while I don't like Piper that much, there's absolutely ne reason she should be strong in anything other than being smart and charspeak, she's not the child of a fighting god(Like Percy, Jason, Hazel, or Frank), she has no special power for fighting (like Percy, Jason, Hazel, or Leo) and she has no experience (like Percy, Jason, and Annabeth.
yup she I am sorry is just a really bad character
annabeth she has a lot of experience and is smart
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Leo! actually, that's just me being biased. Think about it logically.Percy and Leo are the strongest. Piper's got the charmspeak, but that doesn't always work. She's also got Katoptris, but again, that isn't entirely reliable. Hazel has pretty much no power at all, all she can really do is move some precious metals, which aren't always there to be moved. Annabeth is a tough one, but I'd have to rule her out too. She could hardly stand against a blazing inferno with just her wits. Frank's powers are actually rather unreliable too, so that rules him out. Then comes Leo. As much as I hate to admit it, I think he could be eliminated. After all, if he and percy got into a fight, what would happen then? So I think it's a tie between percy and jason. Nico would have been right there alongside them, had he been one of the seven. So pretty much , it's all about the big three.
1.) Percy2.) Leo
3.) Annabeth
4.) Hazel
5.) Frank
6.) Piper
7.) Jason *if any are you are wondering it is because he's always blacked out*
Physically strong is definitely Frank. He has a baby face, but he is freakin huge. XD
Socially strong is either Percy or Leo. Leo knows how to crack jokes while Percy has that charm that just makes most everyone like him (I know this will cause much debate)
Mentally strong is definitely not Nico or Hazel. Yes they've been through a lot, but they don't handle it great like the rest of the 7. I think the mentally strongest is Annabeth. Not only because she's smart, but despite all the bad things that have happened to herself, she is still battling. She still has control of her temper. She can still act like a sane person.
There are different ways to be strong. So I said each one. Now... my arms are open for haters! XD
Socially strong is either Percy or Leo. Leo knows how to crack jokes while Percy has that charm that just makes most everyone like him (I know this will cause much debate)
Mentally strong is definitely not Nico or Hazel. Yes they've been through a lot, but they don't handle it great like the rest of the 7. I think the mentally strongest is Annabeth. Not only because she's smart, but despite all the bad things that have happened to herself, she is still battling. She still has control of her temper. She can still act like a sane person.
There are different ways to be strong. So I said each one. Now... my arms are open for haters! XD
I think the list would go like this:1. Annabeth (she has the longest experience, she's really strong and really strategic)
2. Percy (Second longest experience level, strong, quick thinker, one of the main three gods as a dad)
3. Jason (strong, good fighter, clear mind with good thoughts about battle, strong dad)
4. Nico (can be strong, an important father, great magical abilities)
5. Piper (good with a dagger, mentally sound and smart, charmspeak)
6.Frank (well built body, son of Ares, pretty good fighter)
7. Hazel (her power is okay, she's mentally okay, but she can have a lot holding her back, she's pretty strong though)
Whoops, forgot Leo, he'd probably be in between Piper and Frank, his sense of humor keeps him stable, he has the immunity to fire, and he is good with his hands, but those are really the only powers he has.
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If it were about powers and not limited to the seven: Nico.