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Why did they change the side of the Hound's facial wounds?
I'm beginning to feel a bit for sansa now. I still think it's "her fault" but she is just a kid. and joffery is just awful. i hope he dies. awfully.
I don't like Sansa but Joffrey needs slapping.Don't read the next bit unless you have read A Storm of Swords part2:
(view spoiler)
Finally started reading the Clash of Kings, again. Man, do the Starks every catch a break? LOLPoor Renly... :(
Starks :( and direwolves :( :(Renly - meh - He was full of his own looks and self importance!
yeah he did get pompous at the end...
Awww, I loved Renly (not TV Renly who was a bit of an idiot. Though he did have some lovely scenes with Loras!!) I thought book Renly was a bit more savvy and he did try to help Ned in AGoT, but Ned was too stupid to take his help.
If it wasn't for that red bitch, Renly would be king! :D
Arushi wrote: "Zeenat wrote: "Clash of Kings is 2, I'm starting it tomorrow :)"Yay!!!
@Ada-Lee - I have no idea what are the Christmas chapters. I read all the books in one go in late 2012. If you could tell ..."
Arushi wrote: "Zeenat wrote: "Clash of Kings is 2, I'm starting it tomorrow :)"
Yay!!!
@Ada-Lee - I have no idea what are the Christmas chapters. I read all the books in one go in late 2012. If you could tell ..."
There are some chapters that GRRM has sent out for all his minions to read I don't have the pages but I'm sure you can get them from Lannister or someone equally as "hip" ! But beware they contain spoilers from WOW coming out sometime before ( God only knows when, hopefully before I die!)
Lannister wrote: "Awww, I loved Renly (not TV Renly who was a bit of an idiot. Though he did have some lovely scenes with Loras!!) I thought book Renly was a bit more savvy and he did try to help Ned in AGoT, but ..."
Wow vehemence!! But I agree. I think these book go to show that: nope, the best man does not win. Even the smart one may not win. Its a combination of everything that gives you victory!
...and then half the time the victory is a poisoned chalice
Yeah, that's so true Anna. GRRM has said the end will be 'bittersweet' so it may prove be a hollow victory for whoever ends up on top if everyone they care about is dead.
Greater good somehow just never seems all that great, does it?
Hopefully all the warring factions in Westeros will get their shit together before giant ice zombies come over the wall! Of course, it's my theory that the wall will fall down at some point. :)
I think it'd be interesting if that happened.The body count sure would jump, though.
Well, I think most people would agree The Others are going to attack at some point but they have to get by The Wall, so I reckon it has to come down. Plus there's supposed to be a horn that will bring it down (I can't remember the name of it) but there's a theory that it may have been the horn that was with the obsidian knife that Ghost found.
That's what I was thinking, too. I'd be real surprised if it doesn't come down at some point. I kind of want to see that.
I know, I do too! I keep imagining some random Night Watch guy coming across the horn and giving it a little toot just for fun, then BOOM!!Would be so awesome lol
Where is that horn right now? Do we know? And yeah, that wall is coming down, or at least getting breached. Me thinks a Stark might have something to do with that too. They're everywhere!!!
@Lannister Lol! Imagine the devastation of the wall actually coming down. I bet a bunch of the Night Watch would get buried/crushed.@Arushi I don't remember where that horn is. I need to finish catching up because I can't remember if someone had found it by the time I finished the third book.
I'm not certain where the horn is. I thought Sam had it, though I'm not sure why I'm thinking that. I think it must still be at the wall somewhere. Possibly Jon has it.
Sam had a horn at the end of season 2. Maybe that's why you thought that?I don't think it was THE horn, though.
Mello, I'm talking about the horn that Ghost found that was buried with the dragonglass blades. I googled this cos it was bugging me. The horn that's supposed to bring down the wall is called The Horn of Winter, and there's some info on the Westeros Wiki here:http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/...
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/...
Note, there are some Dance with Dragons spoilers in that first link.
There's been a fair bit of speculation about this horn. Feast spoiler: (view spoiler)
Ah, okay. I was wondering if you had mixed the tv series and the books. I do remember Ghost finding the horn in the books.
Nah, the TV series sort of makes stuff up when it suits them. If I'm debating a point, it will likely always be based on what the books say, unless I say otherwise.I read somewhere that after the two TV seasons on Storm, they expect the TV show to deviate even further from the book plot. I dunno how I feel about that.
@Lannister Okay. I won't be surprised if they deviate heavily after two seasons for Storm of Swords. TV is always changing things. I just hope it won't be so much deviation that it loses itself. So far, the TV series has been pretty good. I don't want another True Blood on my hands.
Anna, I don't want to say too much till you've finished Dance with Dragons, but that horn you're talking about does get mentioned again there. Also, I'm not saying the horn Ghost found definitely *is* the Horn of Winter, just that it might be. Or, of course, the whole thing could be a tease from GRRM! I love that GRRM messes with fans' heads with his prophecies. He'll mention a prophecy then will show it supposedly being fulfilled in about three different ways and it's up to you to decide which is correct. Or possibly none of them are correct.
Mello, I know that Feast and about half of Dance are quite slow and are about dealing with the aftermath of the war, which may not make for exciting TV. I think the TV guys are big fans of the books, but they're also under contract to produce exciting TV, so they might need to make some changes. I guess it all depends what direction they go in.
My biggest fear still is that the TV series will get ahead of the books, and the final book won't be published when the final season airs. I really don't want to find out the ending on TV, rather than in a book.
Its said that GRRM already has told some of the ending (broad strokes probably to outline what he has in mind as the details tend to get worked out while writing) to the producers of the show. Its just a precaution in case he dies before he finishes writing the series. At least he has foresight but I wanna read the end NOT watch it. Especially considering I have yet to even see the first season.
The TV show is good and worth watching, but it's not a patch on the books. The problem with GRRM is that he is a very slow writer and it's not a crazy idea that the show might get ahead. I was working out the timeline, roughly, for the TV show (assuming they continue with it.)2013 - Storm Part 1
2014 - Storm Part 2
2015 - Feast
2016 - Dance
2017 - The Winds of Winter (not yet published)
2018 - A Dream of Spring (supposedly the final book)
I'm not worried about Winds of Winter. It should definitely be out well ahead of the TV show, but it's the final book that will be cutting it close. Storm was released in 2000, Feast in 2005 and Dance in 2011. The earlier books were released 2 -3 years apart, but apparently GRRM had a chunk of those written before Game was published and that was why they were released relatively quickly.
The optimists think Winds of Winter will be out in 2014, but 2015 might be more likely. That gives GRRM 3 years to crank out the final book, which is a short period of time for him. (And some people in the know have speculated that the series might run to eight books.) There's no way in hell GRRM will put out three books in a five year period. Two is just about possible, but even that will be cutting it fine.
I wish GRRM wrote faster, but what can you do?
Excellence takes time. Maybe the show will go on some tangents to kill time? It is a fav strategy of anime's when they catch up with a manga. They create a new arc and finish it, giving the mangaka time to write more.
Yeah, but I was kinda hoping the show wouldn't go off on tangents too much, beyond what they already have to do for practical and budgeting reasons. People who haven't read the books may not care, so long as it's entertaining, but diehard book fans like me are going to feel increasingly alienated by it all.There ain't much we can do however. And if Jaime keeps his beard and longer hair in season three, I'll be happy! (And I cannot wait to hear the reaction of fans to certain events that occur in Storm of Swords!!)
It's funny, I only read the first book, then watched first season, and now a little over halfway of book 2. My friend has watched the first two seasons, then read book 1. Our perspectives are soooooo different. Like the marriage "night" between Dany and Drogo, I found it sweet and romantic, because I found him very sweet and gentle with her. The tv version to me was a bit scary/rapey. But she didn't even catch on the book's romanticness, because she thinks of that movie scene is more important because it strengthen's Dany's turn around. I like the book better, she likes the tv better. :::Shrugs:::
@Lannister - the looks are a really good part of the show. @Zeenat - I guess it is the same as with whoever reads the Dory series first likes it more, and who reads the Cassie series first likes it more. First impressions make a huge difference and if you first identify with the show, then it'll be really hard to switch later to the books and vice versa.
About that scene with Dany/Drogo, I can see why the TV folks did that, to a certain extent. It's as you say Zeenat, that they needed to drum home how much of a turnaround there was in Dany's feelings for Drogo. TV is rarely subtle. It often plays to the lowest common denominator and tends to bludgeon you with impressions, rather than sprinkle as a book does. I agree that Dany's wedding night in the book was quite sweet. She was terrified and Drogo, who was supposed to be little more than a savage, was really gentle and kind to her. But on the show, she was definitely raped and a lot of people hated that. But I understand why they did it. So long as there is a reasonable explanation for changes between book and show, I can live with them. It's when they do things for no logical reason (or just to show more boobs) that I get annoyed!
@ Lannister - agreed I like the little hints and suggestions too!Mmm I wasn't sure about the TV version of the 'rape' scene I have to say...
He does write relatively slowly but then his books are huge and they are not optimistic so I can why he might say he doesn't want to work on them exclusively!
I imagine he would get suicidal if he immersed himself in Westeros too much! I read a post by him bemoaning that his wife went to London to see the Post Raphaelites and he was stuck at home working!
Ah, but you've touched on an issue that some folks get really uptight about!GRRM does take on a lot of side projects and short stories, and he attends a lot of conventions. Some people get really mad that they had to wait six years for Dance with Dragons, but if you follow his blog, he's always writing about how he's travelling here, there and everywhere (and he says he doesn't write at all when he's away from home.)
I'm in two minds. I can understand the fans' frustration, cos six years is a helluva long time for a book. And yet ... some people need outside stimulus to keep themselves fresh and I think GRRM is that kind of guy. I think you're right Anna that he would go nuts if he did nothing but Westeros. But ... is it too much to expect the guy to commit to writing nine or ten months of the year? I remember when Dance came out, which was in July of 2011. He outlined his plans for the rest of the year, which involved book tours, conventions and lots of other unrelated stuff. He basically was going to do next to no writing for the rest of that year. It's stuff like this that drives some fans crazy. And the fact that his last two books have been less than stellar doesn't help.
I can see both sides. I wish he would write faster, and yet I want him to do the best work he can, and if that means he writes for only, say, six months of the year, then I guess I have to live with it.
I just have to be patient.... Which is not in my vocabulary, never has been. I will read DWD again slowly this time so I can savor it again, watch the shows again and again, and hopefully not die before the next 2 books get written.....Im heading towards semi retirement in a decade or 3/ so God willing, GRRM staying I good health, and the world not ending soon, it's all good!
I think of it as his work. He clearly makes enough that he doesn't need to work much, so he doesn't. And he's older, he's earned the right to travel and such. It sucks for us, bu we don't have to read it either.
Zeenat wrote: "I think of it as his work. He clearly makes enough that he doesn't need to work much, so he doesn't. And he's older, he's earned the right to travel and such. It sucks for us, bu we don't have to r..."Exactly. That reminds me of IA's post: "you don't get a say" or something along those lines. At the end of the day, he will work at his own pace and that is the best way to get a really good book.
LOL reading my post, it sounded a lot more snarkier than I intended! I meant it a lot more lightheartedly :)It annoys me when any author takes longer than a year to write a book, but I still buy those books, like KC's or when Harry Potter was coming out. So while there is still buyers, they have no reason to to "rush". If fans get impatient and stop reading books, then they need to step up their game. Either make better books or get a better PR team, or write faster! LOL!
Agreed Zeenat - I'm feeling he should take his time if that's how he writes, though I can understand the frustration.It's not unusual for established musicians to do an album, then spend a year touring and promoting and only then think about writing more. How long did Kate Bush take 'time out'? Why should writing be any different - if you can afford it. Surely you need input to stay creative?
On another tack, I'm finding I'm losing interest in A Feast for Crows - about half way through...anyone else? I think I'm losing track of characters. I also get frustrated by his maps- half his locations are missing. I need the visual!
You're not the only one who feels this way, Anna. Feast starts to wander off track and there are new POVs from Iron Islanders and characters from Dorne and it starts to feel like GRRM has lost control of the series. And unfortunately this continues until about half way through Dance with Dragons. (Though a lot of Dance runs concurrently with Feast and the timeline only starts to move forward nearer the end of the book.) Most people consider Feast to be the worst book, with Dance a close second (though sometimes the order is reversed!) Feast and Dance are books that you appreciate more on second read, I think. But when you start them straight after the high that was Storm of Swords, you are left feeling a bit disappointed.
On the maps thing, I know they just released a book with more detailed maps, though that will only appeal to a small segment of the fanbase. Maybe try googling Westeros map and you might find something that's a bit more detailed than what's in the books? I know there are a few map images kicking about.
Thanks for the map suggestion. Just got to the end of AFFC. Phew! The last third comes together more and I have to say I can now understand your Jaimee obsession. I kind of liked the book more as I wrote the review- he does lots of interesting things with characters and archetypes but as a reading experience its very bleak. Yeh- I just can't get excited about the Ironmen, Dorne is irritating, I'm fed up of traipsing through forests with Brienne- much as i like her ..and no Tyrion - that worked but I missed him!I agree, part of the problem is that Martin set the bar pretty high on the first books!
That bar is so high from book one, I agree, but we just love these characters so much we can't get enough of tem, and want the best!
Laughed at this ...
I've got to give big respect to the actor that plays Joff, cos even just looking at that smug, self-satisfied face makes my blood boil and I want to punch him repeatedly!!
Can't wait for Season Three!
Anna wrote: "Cos there was another horn[spoilers removed]for Storm of Swords"That's the horn I remember.
Sorry just catching up, I love this thread it's awesome.
Lannister wrote: "Laughed at this ...I've got to give big respect to the actor that plays Joff, cos even just looking at that smug, self-satisfied face makes my blood boil and I want to punch him repeatedly!!
C..."
LOL!!! That makes me want to watch the show... hummm I will start the show once I finish Dance. God only knows how long that will take though...
Isn't season 2 coming out on DVD in like 2 days???
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Winds of Winter (other topics)Red Seas Under Red Skies (other topics)
Fevre Dream (other topics)
Yay!!!
@Ada-Lee - I have no idea what are the Christmas chapters. I read all the books in one go in late 2012. If you could tell in a spoiler, what happened in these chapters?