The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
discussion
Benedict Cumberbatch vs. Robert Downey vs. Johnny Lee Miller
I love Cumberbatch for his ability to play the quirks, I love RDJ for the way he plays the ego. And I can't say I have seen Johnny Lee Miller's work.I couldn't pick a favorite, even though my friends often try and make me...
I enjoy most the modernization of Cumberbatch because he still stays true to the original character to a high degree, as well as enjoying the Holmes-Watson interplay which maintains much of the book relationship.RDJ comes in second because he plays not only the addict, but the ping-ponging brain wrapped around the massive ego amazingly, you never actually know if you are having the same conversation with him that he is having with himself and that shows in Watson's exacerbation and resignation.
Johnny Lee Miller I like the least (still using the word "like" though) because the character has changed from the original for more reasons than updating to a modern time. From what I have seen, the network has shaved a lot of him off in order to make it appeal to the modern situation in a way that the BBC didn't need to worry about. I'll keep paying attention, but of the three, I can live most easily without Johnny Lee Miller.
Cumberbatch for sure!!!
Something about the way Johnny Lee Miller speaks comes the closest to the way I hear Holmes in my head. In "Lesser Evils," it's clear he's come to respect Watson's intelligence and medical experience, and that respect was a huge part of their relationship in the book.
While I understand the re-imagining of Cumberbatch's Holmes as a sociopath, I actually have a problem with his lack of empathy. RDJ and JLM both have several moments where it's clear that they are sorry for the victims or their families. These moments are rare, but they still occur. To me, that's a very important part of Holmes, even with his socially-oblivious, logical exterior.
Cumberbatch definitely establishes himself as the most emotionally detached, even when he is suppose to have feelings. haha.
Never like the sherlock movie, love Robert Downey and all but i just can't digest that how they got an american to play a classic british detective role. The show Elementary seems like a petty copy from bbc's, as long as they don't fall in love, I'm all cool.
I'm Benedict all the way, he probably portayed the best modern sherlock but Jude Law is my Dr Watson hehe
I find a lot of the adaptations interesting, but the Cumberbatch version at least plays with the original stories (and occasionally tips its hat to the other versions--watch the Brett version of The Final Problem and then watch the opening of the Cumberbatch version, or watch the Rathbone movie Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and then watch "The Reichenbach Fall").The problem with the Downey and Miller version is that they aren't doing Sherlock Holmes, really. Just putting on a British accent and calling yourself Sherlock Holmes doesn't make you Sherlock Holmes. I have not understood why the producers didn't just call the main characters of these series something else if they didn't really want to do the whole Sherlock Holmes thing but only the stereotypes (which come from the movie adapations and not the stories and novels themselves). I would like the Downey and Miller series better if I weren't invited to consider these characters Sherlock Holmes. They could do as August Derleth did and call the main character Solar Pons or Sherringford Jones or something like that.
Right now, I'd have to say my favorite version is the Jeremy Brett version (2nd series, though) as he is the closest to the Holmes of the stories. And David Burke as Watson is also very good. I also like the Peter Cushing version. But nothing beats the stories themselves.
I think the question does have to include Jeremy Brett and Basil Rathbone. I love Benedict Cumberbatch, but Jeremy Brett is my all-time favorite Holmes.
Robert Downey. He's amazing. I honestly thought he was British until I heard him speak in an interview.
Benedict. He is the most ambiguous of the characters, which is a large part of the written Holmes mystique. His relationship with Watson (brilliantly played by Martin Freeman) is so subtle and witty. On top of that, the scripts are so closely linked to the original Holmes stories and so cleverly updated, he wins by a mile. I like RDJ but the films are too slick and glib and lack depth for me. JLM is good, but Watson as a woman takes too much away from the Holmes / Watson relationship. He is not egocentric enough either.
I really don't like jonny lee miller, he tries sooo hard to be the 'weird' sherlock. And two, but that's not his fault, I absolutely dislike the fact that they're in new york.
I really do like, on the otherhand, Benedict. he has that weirdness like it's completely natural. like sherlock himself.
downey i like as well, but 'meh' on the fact that he's an american, but i like the humor of the movies and i like how benedict and downey are so similar and so apposit as well. like to put thoose to next to each other
The New York thing does bother me as well, They could at least make a Mrs. Hudson/221B Baker Street reference!! The deductive reasoning is still spot on.... And you can call me sexist if you want, but what is the point of a female Watson?? Lucy Liu is doing a good job, but seriously!!
I have seen all three and I would have to go with Cumberbatch. It is so smart. I have watched the first season two or three times and I still get something out of it. I don't think I would watch Elementary with that sort fangirl rabid. Its not bad but it does feel like a lukewarm BBC Sherlock. I did like movies. I thought they showed Sherlock in a very interesting way.
Bud wrote: "The New York thing does bother me as well, They could at least make a Mrs. Hudson/221B Baker Street reference!! The deductive reasoning is still spot on.... And you can call me sexist if you want, ..."you're not sexist, it just was a really wrong choice ;p
Cami wrote: "I love Cumberbatch for his ability to play the quirks, I love RDJ for the way he plays the ego. And I can't say I have seen Johnny Lee Miller's work..."Same here. But I'm still in love with how Baisl Rathborn (i spelled that so wrong)plays SH.
basil rathbone....yes
Well Basil is the original and no one will ever quite live up to him...
Cami wrote: "Well Basil is the original and no one will ever quite live up to him..."So true, I love watching all of the old Sherlock Holmes films, black and white is how it should be...
Denise wrote: "I find a lot of the adaptations interesting, but the Cumberbatch version at least plays with the original stories (and occasionally tips its hat to the other versions--watch the Brett version of Th..."I second that. The Brett series is amazing and quite true to the original stories.
However, I did love the most recent movies. A thirteen year old version of me would have loved them even more!
BENEDICT CUMERBATCH FTW! He is awesome at playing Sherlock and looks how i imagined he looked like when i read the books. I also love Martin Freeman as Watson!
Danielle wrote: "Bud wrote: "The New York thing does bother me as well, They could at least make a Mrs. Hudson/221B Baker Street reference!! The deductive reasoning is still spot on.... And you can call me sexist i..."
I agree with you COMPLETELY!
Watson is great as a male,and because in Elementary :( they made him a girl that means there will be romance. :( Personally no offense to hard core Patriots (im American but hopefully for forever lol) i like the British show better.
I agree with you COMPLETELY!
Watson is great as a male,and because in Elementary :( they made him a girl that means there will be romance. :( Personally no offense to hard core Patriots (im American but hopefully for forever lol) i like the British show better.
Bud wrote: "The New York thing does bother me as well, They could at least make a Mrs. Hudson/221B Baker Street reference!! The deductive reasoning is still spot on.... And you can call me sexist if you want, ..."I don't mind that she's a woman as long as there won't be any romance but what I found really frustrating was that they took away the military background. For me at least Watson can't be Watson without it.
Also while I like Johnny Lee Miller and Elementary and think it's a nice crime show it isn't really Sherlock Holmes to me.
I adore Benedict Cumberbatches version of Sherlock, especially since it is so different from the others. This guy is able to let me not think about the actor but just the character during the series, and that's a great hint to how amazing he is.RDJ was great in the movies - but that was before I knew Benedict playing Sherlock. Now he does look a little pale.
Benedict Cumberbatch is the best Sherlock and I love how the stories are just updated versions of the original stories.I just flows so well together.I agree with Cashay the Johnny Lee Miller Elementary is a good crime show but I don't really see it has Sherlock Holmes.
It took all my will power to make it throw the first RDJ Sherlock Holmes and thought it was horriable.
I agree with some of the earlier comments about including Brett and Rathbone. I think going strictly by the books, Jeremy Brett is by far the best holmes ever. But based on character and attitude I love the Cumberbatch interpretation, although I dont know if that is all Cumberbatchs acting or a combination of that and Moffat and Gatis writing
Benedict Cumberbatch hands down, and I love JLM but the character isn't written as Sherlock Holmes-y as it could be
I haven't seen any of the modern ones. Jeremy Brett's Holmes is too camp for me, and I don't think anyone will ever come close to Basil Rathbone.
Love Johnny Lee Miller in the modern era. Jeremy Brett in the traditional. Robert Downey Jr was too over the top and Cumberbatch gets on my nerves.
Benedict Cumberbatch and Robert Downey.
i have just seen Robert Downey Jr. and Jeremy Brett, and I like Jeremy Brett better.
I can not see anyone but Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes, or Raymond Burr, as Perry Mason. I guess that makes me a dinosaur, but I've tried twice, to watch Robert Downy's version, and I started to watch some other guy , I can't remember who he was. I changed the channel, about fifteen minutes into the movie. I've read the covers off of my Holmes books, I guess I'll stick to reading, instead of watching. Have a nice day.
Denise wrote: "I find a lot of the adaptations interesting, but the Cumberbatch version at least plays with the original stories (and occasionally tips its hat to the other versions--watch the Brett version of Th..."You are right. There is only one real filmed Holmes--Jeremy Brett. These others are bagatelles--interesting variations on a theme, but not Holmes. And of course the stories are best. Books are always better than the movie!
Vasiliy Livanov is the best Sherlock Holmes, he even got order of the British Empire for his play.
Robert Downey Jr's Holmes was brilliant. He and Jude Law were such a departure from what we were used to. (I can't be the only one who still imagines Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce when reading Doyle's classics.)But there's something special about the BBC redo.
I'm a huge fan of the Benedict Cumberbatch, Martin Freeman pairing. The modernization is slick, but doesn't take anything away from the characters that we've come to love.
I wanted to like Elementary; the CBS production of Sherlock Holmes. Jonny Lee Miller is a decent Holmes.
I don't like the Americanization of it. I like Lucy Liu, though not as Watson.
I feel changing the sex of Holmes' partner was a mistake. Was CBS afraid that the closeness of the two male leads would be too distracting for their target audience? Americans put too much importance on sexuality.
As with many American television productions that want to cash-in on the success of a BBC hit, it didn't sit right with me.
By far, the Cumberbatch, Freeman pairing is my favorite.
I thought they missed the boat with the Robert Downey, Jr. movie by not having Downey play Watson and Jude Law play Holmes. That could have been brilliant.
Downey and Law could have been good as Holmes and Watson but the mystery is meant to mostly mental and the movies were all about the ACTION. They made a hash of it in my opinion
Bud wrote: "In the past five years or so we have seen a revitalization of the famous consulting detective on Baker Street. I am a fan of all three modern versions and can't exactly say one is awful while one i..."This piece might explain why a modern Sherlock Holmes or a revised past Holmes is a good idea.
http://hambone3.blogspot.com/
ADignorantium wrote: "Robert Downey Jr's Holmes was brilliant. He and Jude Law were such a departure from what we were used to. (I can't be the only one who still imagines Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce when reading Doy..."I should state that in the 80's and 90's long before the BBC hit, CBS attempted two modern day versions of Holmes, both with female Watsons.You can see these on You Tube.
Sharon wrote: "Downey and Law could have been good as Holmes and Watson but the mystery is meant to mostly mental and the movies were all about the ACTION. They made a hash of it in my opinion"Yes for a long time people all over the world have read Holmes for his mind much more than his fighting skills.
It didn't seem quite right to focus on action. But as one reviewer said, that's the only thing that gets young audiences into theaters. sad I think.
In 1954 Sir John Gielgud played Sherlock Holmes with Sir Ralph Richardson as Watson (!!) in a series of exquisitely produced radio plays. Listen to them for free; I'm sure they are available as downloads from the Internet Archive. Just extraordinary. Or else, listen to them as I do from 'Old Valve' (internet streaming) Radio. You will find that the interpretations of these two talents--long considered two of the finest stage actors England produced in the Twentieth Century--is perfectly adroit and spot-on; and guess what series later matches these episodes in visual form? The Jeremy Brett/Edward Hardwicke BBC tv series; they're the visual accompaniment to the aesthetic developed by Gielgud and Richardson. What more can you ask for?[Edward Hardwicke, fyi, grandson of Cecil Hardwicke, another legendary actor].
American actor William Gillette introduced Holmes to the stage, playing the role over 1,300 times over thirty years, and starred in a 1916 silent based on his and Conan Doyle's Holmes theatre play. He coined the Holmes accompanied by the props of the deerstalker cap and the curved pipe.
In the 1940s not only did Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce play Holmes and Watson in the movies but also in a lengthy series of radio serials. And they weren't the only ones: Tom Conway ('the Falcon' of movie fame, also 'the Saint') took a turn; as did actor John Stanley. As did several others. You want action? Rathbone was in real life one of the finest living swordsman of his day (you can see him display this in 'The Mark of Zorro' and 'Adventures of Robin Hood').
In the 1960s and 70s there were a steady sprinkling of Sherlock Holmes movies. George C. Scott, Charlton Heston, Roger Moore, Frank Langella, Larry Hagman, Nicol Williamson, and especially Christopher Plummer (James Mason as Watson) shined in their outings. Even serials were still occasionally done: actor Kevin McCarthy, for example, had a fine voice for the Holmes role.
All of this great history and so does anyone really think that the question comes down --at this late date--to a contrast of Robert 'Iron Man' Downey Jr.? vs Benedict who? Come on.
Of the three mentioned, Benedict plays the best Sherlock. But imo, the all time best Sherlock is Jeremy Brett :) No question.
Elementary is just shite, the movies were Hollywood; BBC's Sherlock is where it's at.
Robert downy doesn't play in the 21st century while the others do. Johnny lee is seriously the worst Sherlock Holmes ever! and downy jr. is good, but not exactly like he actual one. i guess if Sherlock existed in 21st century,he'd be exactly like Benedict. so of these three, Benedict wins. yay! but everyone knows, Jeremy Brett is the BEST Sherlock Holmes ever!!! :)
John wrote: "I enjoy most the modernization of Cumberbatch because he still stays true to the original character to a high degree, as well as enjoying the Holmes-Watson interplay which maintains much of the boo..."Exactly!
And I really love Jeremy Brett's portrayal of the character.
Benedict has done a very good job to bring Sherlock back to modern world.Robert acted the original time, so it is not easy to say who is better.
Johnny's work is not too bad, at least he shown the sensitive, ego, and empathy.
Hands down it's Benedict Cumberbatch. He is Sherlock Holmes, there's no comparison. Have you seen the second Sherlock Holmes movie? Downey's Accent was terrible, not only that but the whole thing left me bored out of my mind. And well, Elementary is just boring, and really Lucy Liu as Watson? Now the BBC Sherlock is exciting, fast-paced, and very witty. And I really love the Bromance between Benedict and Martin, they have great chemistry. Watch 'A Scandal in Belgravia' and you'll agree that there's no question that Benedict is Sherlock.
They are all the best minus JLM. Nothing against him, but. . . I can't get over Sherlock Holmes being a TV and sex addict. It just seems so wrong.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (other topics)The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (other topics)
What do you say?