The Mark of Athena
discussion
What's wrong with Piper?
message 51:
by
Parker
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Dec 30, 2013 08:12AM
You might recall that without Piper, the eidolons would still be on the ship and that would probably have resulted in the death or imprisonment of all the seven.
reply
|
flag
Well yeah but what else has she done? Like she was tries to show her worth by throwing food at people, not that it isn't funny.
Like I said she charmspeaks. That is considered talking.
What side are you on Maddie because you're saying both sides are correct
Rachel wrote: "i never liked piper as a character, in the lost hero all she spoke bout was jason and how he doesn"t remember her and blah.i even felt like she and jason left leo out a lot in that book.i hoped in..."
You coudnt have said it better! I totally agree...
True. She calls Percy "unimpressive", Leo Repair Boy and thinks Frank is a lost puppy. She's much worse than Silena Beauregaurd, her older but better sister.
I think if she learns how to use Love magic to crush her enemies, she'll be a better character.
Ananth wrote: "I hate how she called Percy "unimpressive" compared to Jason. Say that one more time Piper, and I'll throw you into Chaos, not Tartarus."you are soooo right
I really don't see why Jason is all that great either. He is my second least favorite of the seven, after Piper, who is a Mary Sue.
Jk, she's a cool kid. ;3 She's my fav character.
You're right, Mae- I read TLH before PJatO, and when I came to Percy I just didn't like him as much as Jason and Leo- he was more of a troublemaker and he didn't start out with too many redeeming qualities, although he does treat people kindly. He'll just never be my fave. It's a loyalty thing- whoever you start out with, you usually stick with.
Well it all depends on Piper shaping up to be a better character.
Although I do have to say she freaks out over small things.
Like she starts thinking that Khione will take Jason away from her.
Kathy ♡Baek♡ wrote: "Umm.. Well in my opinion, Piper isn't really a bad character.... But a lot of people think that she's selfish. People also thought that Jason could've been with Reyna if Piper didn't get in the way..."
The people that don't like piper because of Reyna, Hera wiped his memories and if not Piper Jason probably like someone else. So stop hating on Piper, people I'm sick of it!
The people that don't like piper because of Reyna, Hera wiped his memories and if not Piper Jason probably like someone else. So stop hating on Piper, people I'm sick of it!
I think she really is sweet and stood up to Drew really well but she is a bit... obsessive and i don't think she is as strong or powerful as the others. I also think she is a bit plain not having a special or interesting history.
I can rate their lives from best to worst:1.Piper
2.Percy
3.Frank
4.Jason
5.Annabeth
6.Leo
7.Nico
8.Hazel
Sandra is absolutely right. You shouldn't dislike Piper because she didn't have some tragic, dramatic past. What she does now is what's important, and that entails saving lives repeatedly.
Piper sucks. When Jason,Frank and Leo were hurt she cried out Jason! but she didn't glance over to see how Frank and Leo were doing.
I feel like you can't really compare any of the new characters or relationships to the old characters and relationships. Like, Piper, Jason, Frank, Leo, and Hazel have only been in 3 books, whereas Percabeth has been a thing for a gazillion years now (or at least it feels that way haha) so of course people are going to see Percy and Annabeth as having a better relationship and more complex characters, because those things have both had time to develop within the books. But if you insist...I, for one, actually like Piper. I don't think she's selfish at all (she jumped in the water to give Leo a hug, remember?), even if I do agree that she spends a lot of time thinking about Jason. But is that selfish? She doesn't actually let that get in the way of their quest, she just thinks about it in her spare time and, yes, ONCE she hesitated before saving Percy from Jason because she wasn't convinced she could save both of them and she didn't want to lose Jason but she managed it in the end and then felt awful for that hesitation.
The other thing is that Jason wasn't 'kinda dating' Reyna, to my knowledge. Its actually stated a couple of times that they weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, the vibe was just there and they had the potential to become that if Jason hadn't been kidnapped and had his memory stolen.
As for their relationship being based on a lie, is it? Because at the end of TLH I thought they were not a couple, but then months later in MOA they were, so somewhere in that time they actually fell for each other properly. Certainly Jason did as he had no mist induced memories of Piper in which to fall for her. So, even though Piper can't trust her memories of before, she's had months and at least one quest before this big one to develop new memories and learn about who Jason is. Just because it wasn't included in the books doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And of course she cares more about him than the other guys! He's her boyfriend! Seriously, if Annabeth was more worried about Percy than anyone else (like getting angry at Jason for not being Percy when she went to rescue him in TLH) then people wouldn't care because, duh, it's Percabeth, but it's not okay for Piper to be more concerned about Jason's welfare than anyone else's? Does that really sound that unrealistic? I don't even remember her being mean to Leo like people have said, because she was friends with him for months before the beginning of the first book, so if she did say something like that she was probably just joking or being affectionate.
Honestly, I see Piper as a strong, young, and complex character who has room to grow (like all teenagers, duh) but who is already a valid member of the seven. She knows what her weaknesses are and tries her best to overcome them and is willing to help with their quest any way she can.
I too don't understand the passionate hate aimed towards Piper... I find her very selfless and self-sacrificing as well as kind and VERY observative and thoughtful. In fact I love reading from her POV because she's very considerate and analytical of people surrounding her (you'll especially notice that in the HOH)
She is not selfless. She always worries that Reyna is going to steal Jason. Annabeth lost Percy for 6 months.
Natalie wrote: "This doesn't reflect my personal opinion! These are just theories as to why people dislike Piper's character.*Many people believe Piper is hypocritical, because she claims to hate people who judg..."
You're reasons are completely accurate and are some of the reasons I highly dislike piper.
Piper is just talk. Like if Jason was hurt, she would just sit there and scream. On the other hand if Percy was hurt, Annabeth would try to heal him or destroy the thing that hurt Percy.
Ananth wrote: "Piper is just talk. Like if Jason was hurt, she would just sit there and scream. On the other hand if Percy was hurt, Annabeth would try to heal him or destroy the thing that hurt Percy."You're just talk! Remember when, in TLH, Piper BRINGS JASON BACK FROM THE UNDERWORLD after he LOOKED STRAIGHT AT A GOD IN TRUE FORM?! Do you call that SITTING THERE AND SCREAMING?
At least she tried! My point was that she didn't "sit there and scream".
She is literally talk. Charmspeaking is perssuasive talking.
Do you have a knife? Do you fight monsters? Can you convince people to jump off a cliff? I didn't think so.
But she's getting better. And she hasn't died yet.
Dria wrote: "She said he "looked" unimpressive, but she never denied his powers. It's not something to get touchy about."Thing is Percy is 6'0 and Jason is 6'1.There isn't much difference between the two.Jason has blond hair and Percy has brown hair. So she's against brown haired people.
She has brown hair. *dubious*
Yeah, I think Lakshya's right. And trust me- Percy and Jason have totally different looks. Percy looks kinda like some skater guy- in fact, I've seen a lot of AUs where Percy is a skateboarder. Jason, on the other hand, is nervous about appearing anything other than confident and stoic because of his upbringing and his reputation. Piper has her "type", and she just thinks Percy looks a little more unreliable and less impressive than Jason, but she never said he WAS less impressive or powerful, like I said before. She's not prejudiced at all because of his hair. I mean, really...
Even though nobody is perfect, Piper has some serious problems. She thinks that anybody who isn't Jason is not that great.
I also don't like Jason because he is too proud. Like in MoA he thought he was failing because he was surrounded by equals. Dude, learn how to be humble!
Hey, don't hate on Jason! Percy has problems like that too- you could say he wants to protect his friends by doing all the hard jobs, OR you could say he's a glory hog. Two sides of the same coin. Jason is used to being a leader and protecting others, so when other peoole don't need protection and can lead themselves, he feels a little out of place. There's nothing wrong with that.
Jason wanting to be a leader is fine. He just needs to learn how to be humble.
When is he not humble??? ... What did he say that made you think he was proud?
In MoA after Jason and Percy were possessed by eidolons, he thought he could have killed Percy instead of Percy killing him. He also thought Percy could only kill him if there's an ocean in Kansas. That to he said "maybe".
About Piper, charmspeaking usually doesn't work on women in general or women who can counter it. It usually only works on men.
Like I said, two sides of the same coin. It's a fine line to be walking. And both boys seem a little dubious of whether the other could have killed them, etc. Jason just said that because Percy's powers are water based and never brought it up again, so don't use that to tell me he's proud.
I agree with you Lakshya.Jason just thinks that because he is the son of the king of the gods, he should lead everything.
Okay, you totally just ignored me.
This is possibly one of the most pointless discussions I have read on here, and I really don't want to get involved, but I love a bit of drama so I'm going to anyway.Nobody here is going to be able to convince the other side to change their opinions. So far every point that has been brought up for either side of the argument has been countered, but then the counter has been ignored and thus the argument has continued and a while later the same point will be brought up again.
YOU CAN'T WIN.
It's really all about perspective. Some people look at Piper and see the brave, selfless and generally awesome things she has done. Other people look at her and only see her being possessive, dismissive and useless. I'm pretty sure she has her moments at being all of those things but I'm also pretty sure you could look at any of the characters and find that.
P.S. some of these points have been truly ridiculous... I mean, 'OMG she totally has something against people with brown hair!' dun dun dunnnnnnn. Seriously, guys? I mean, wow, what a personality flaw...
We just have to figure out their fatal flaws.Percy Jackson - excessive personal loyalty
Annabeth Chase - deadly pride(hubris)
Nico di Angelo - holding grudges
Jason Grace -
Leo Valdez -
Frank Zhang -
Hazel Levesque -
Piper McLean -
Ananth wrote: "We just have to figure out their fatal flaws.Percy Jackson - excessive personal loyalty
Annabeth Chase - deadly pride(hubris)
Nico di Angelo - holding grudges
Jason Grace -
Leo Valdez -
Frank Zhan..."
Not entirely sure if these are their fatal flaws, but:
*Jason- excessive need to play hero and/ or be the leader
*Frank- no self-confidence to speak of
*Hazel- ???
*Leo- blames himself for everything, especially his mother's death
*Piper- ???
I think Jason's fatal flaw is hubris and both Leo and Frank have inferiority.
Dria wrote: "Like I said, two sides of the same coin. It's a fine line to be walking. And both boys seem a little dubious of whether the other could have killed them, etc. Jason just said that because Percy's p..."I would like to direct you to the Heroes of Olympus reviews done by xtinemay(polandandbananasBOOKS). Her opinions of Jason are pretty much right on the mark.
Also, I did find a couple of instances when Jason was less than humble:
* This: "I'm the son of Jupiter!... I'm a child of Rome, consul to demigods, praetor of the First Legion... I slew the Trojan monster,... I toppled the black throne of Kronos, and destroyed the Titan Krios with my own hands. And now I'm going to destroy you, Porphyion, and feed you to your own wolves." He said that, and actually said that it was automatic, like something he just throws out there constantly.
* When asked to demonstrate his powers, he blew up a campfire.
*He acts as though being the son of Zeus automatically makes him a leader, even when he was five. If five year olds were leaders, every meal would consist of cake and 90% of everyone's time would be spent screaming at inanimate objects and prancing around, pretending to be a unicorn.
*He spends most fights knocked out or turned into a popsicle, and he makes idiotic decisions, yet he still treats himself as this amazing warrior.
* Jason's powers work for all of five minutes, yet he still appears to have decided he was the most powerful warrior and the leader.
*Jason literally is one of the most useless of the seven, but he still, despite all of the flaws mentioned above, seems to view himself as a leader.
*Jason never seemed to doubt himself a much as the others, because duh, he's the son of Zeus, and obviously he freaking rocks.
*Seriously, though, Jason mentions that he's the son of Zeus way too much, more than Percy mentions being a son of Poseidon, more than Annabeth mentions being a daughter of Athena, more than anyone mentions their parentage, which blessed them all with amazing powers and a crap-load of things trying to kill them.
* He made the entirety of Camp Jupiter seem a bit weak, saying that this was the first time he was surrounded by "equals" (and even that was ruined by him insisting he should act like a leader, because again, duh, son of Zeus.) Really, dude? Reyna's deadly dagger, ability to kill you in 29 seconds, and killer dogs beg to differ.
Bottom Line: Jason acts like a special little snow flake when, in reality, he's simply conceited.
Ananth wrote: "I think Jason's fatal flaw is hubris and both Leo and Frank have inferiority."That sounds about right. I wish someone could figure out Piper and Hazel's fatal flaws.
Jason said it was the first time he was "surrounded" by "so many equals". No one is really below him at all. It's a new experience for him, and he accepts it and he's working with it. The fact that being with people like Percy and Annabeth, etc., makes him feel useless shows that he's not convinced that he's the best, or the brightest, or in any way superior to them. "Equals", remember? Maybe he doubts himself a little less than the others, not that I noticed this, but people have been saying that some of the seven have the fatal flaw of inferiority! A little confidence is not a bad thing! The fact that he demonstrated his powers in that way- no one asked him to demonstrate his powers. Otherwise he would have called up a little wind or something. He had lost his memory and lightning brought something to the surface. I'm pretty sure he didn't realize quite how extensive the blast would be- I'm not sure he thought at all. It was instinctive, because instincts were pretty much all he had left. He said being a son of Zeus made him a leader even when he was "younger", not five. He's sixteen when he says that, so I doubt he's talking about his time as a toddler. And you have to remember, his lineage made people look up to him. If he didn't lead when they asked him to, he would have disappointed them. Once again, it's in his nature. He also doesn't complain, and he has a clearer view of some situations than other characters because he's been taught to keep his emotions out of the way. Jaosn's speech to Porphyion was, for one, a show. He knew he couldn't defeat him and was simply trying to distract him. The speech may always be a show. If your enemies fear you, they're easier to defeat. Even a little. With great fear, even Percy let his sword fall from his hand. It's worth a try. I don't know what idiotic descisions you're talking about. Or when he treats himself as "this amazing warrior". But everyone was useless during the battle with Khione, besides Piper, and I'm SO sorry he was knocked out. He only got knocked out by the Romans b/c he didn't want to fight them. And he called something he and his friends did heroic. I just found Percy saying, "The more HEROIC stuff he did, the more he realized how limited he was..." So there, Percy saud he did something heroic. Why don't you hunt him down with a pitchfork? Jason didn't do anything wrong. You're just twisting the facts.
Dria wrote: "Jason said it was the first time he was "surrounded" by "so many equals". No one is really below him at all. It's a new experience for him, and he accepts it and he's working with it. The fact that...""You're just twisting the facts."
Thank you, Dria, for that nice little sentiment. Really, if my hopes to become a lawyer pan out, I'll spend all day "twisting the facts". Best to become good at it.
And I am oh-so-sorry that I made a mistake about the heroics part. BUT, I still believe I have a couple of pretty valid points. First of all, Jason has gotten knocked out multiple times over the course of four books (of which he was in only three), so why single out a single occasion?
Second, Jason never specified how old "younger" was. Could've been five, could've been twelve, could've been two, for all we know.
Also, Chiron literally said, "Jason, give them a demonstration." Well, Jason did, by blowing up the campfire. Now, I would never want anyone to blow up my freaking camp fire. Could just be a sane person thing, but my fires tend to stay un-exploded.
And a little confidence is not a bad thing, not at all. But excessive amounts of confidence and the need to constantly be leader is not confidence, it's ego. Besides, Jason does complain. He complains about being Zeus' kid, like his name isn't somehow inserted in most conversations about leadership (of which there are lot.)
Idiotic decisions: he decided to jump on top of a turtle, he ended up staying in Malta for multiple days without actually needing to, he forgets important things that could end up saving his life, and his strategies are generally not super wise.
As to why I won't "hunt Percy down with a pitchfork"? Well, because he's fictional. And I hope you agree when I say I really don't want to get into an internet argument over a fictional character.
I don't dislike Piper because of her past. I dislike Piper because she used her dad as an excuse to steal things, despite growing up in a house with money to spare, a loving father, and basically anything she wanted handed to her on a silver platter. I'm so sorry, Piper, that your daddy doesn't pay enough attention to you. Guess what? Plenty of people have parents with not enough time or money to spare and still act as functional people in society. Maybe when Piper stops pitying herself, despite her good childhood, I'll like her. But Hazel has died, Percy grew up with an abusive step-father, Annabeth was unwanted in her own home, Leo and Frank are basically orphans, Jason was abandoned, and Nico had everyone he loved die before his eyes, not to mention his own father hating him. Honestly, Piper shows an extreme amount of self pity for someone with such a good home compared to the others, and it pisses me off.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
