Name of the Wind - November 2012

[[deleted user]]

I initially read this book when it was first released and really liked it. Kvothe is an interesting protagonist and I like that the book felt like multiple stories but still a cohesive whole.

For whatever reason, however, I never picked up the 2nd book in the series even though I thought about it numerous times.

I haven't completely decided if I'm going to re-read this one with the group - but I still might.

[Donna]

I am certain that I am going to love this book...so I'm not going to read it. :) I've been seeing this book recommended since I got onto Goodreads and everyone I'm friends with here has given it 4 or 5 stars. I decided awhile ago to put off reading it until the third book is out(whenever that may be, doesn't look like any time soon). I just think this is the kind of trilogy I'm going to want to read back-to-back.

[[deleted user]]

hmmmmmm .... I like how you think ....

[Charles]

I enjoyed this book a lot when I read it (a year ago or so?). I found the writing and the general story-telling quite good, and mostly got totally immersed into it. My only complaint was that it got a bit boring that Kvothe was so good at so many different skills -- except for a lot of "people skills." In fact, in the 2nd book, those aspects almost caused me to quit reading at one point, which fortunately was the point where the story took a major detour and kept me interested enough to reach the end.

While there are some hints about why he is so good at so many things, I find it hard to really relate and care about such a character -- especially when much of the plot depends on him being selectively stupid.

While all of that may sound like I'm discouraging anyone from reading it, that's not my intention at all. I gave it a high rating and really enjoyed it overall, but those few annoying aspects will likely keep me from wanting to re-read it any time in the foreseeable future.

[Sky]

Ah, loved this book. In fact, I did a little review for it, in case you're interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BuGvz...

[[deleted user]]

I agree with Charles, Kvothe's great skill at nearly everything was annoying, and it's the major reason I never read the second book. It might be different if Kvothe were actually a braggart and a lair and all his great feats were fabrications, falsifications and distortions of the facts.

Overall, I did enjoy the book, and it read quickly and easily for a long novel, but I'd rather read something else than stories of great heroes doing great deeds.

[J.Z.]

This was a great adventure book, filled with action and intrigue. Personally, I loved it. I thought it was much like a more sophisticated and well-written version of Harry Potter. A young hero at school, fighting evil forces (without giving away spoilers). Harry definitely has more flaws than Kvothe, but I enjoyed Kvothe's blatant showing-off quite a bit. It wasn't really thought-provoking on a deeper level, but overall, an amazingly fun read. I think I'll read it again with this book club. =)

[Eric]

I agree with the Harry Potter connection!

I'm on the second novel now, and I'm still not sure where the overall plot is going. Rothfuss actually lost me a bit with that in the first novel, but for me the characterization is so good, and the day to day mini-plots so entertaining, that I'm happy to read along even if the theme never goes anywhere (though I'm confident that it will).

[Will]

I understand the faults Charles points out, but the sheer exuberence of the story telling has been good enough to keep me reading, and buy book 2 for when I'm finished.

[J.Z.]

The day to day mini-plots definitely make the book. As for where the overall plot is going, I'm guessing there's eventually gonna be some face-off with the Chandrian. Or at least that's what I'm waiting for. I'm also quite curious about Denna. So far, she's been shrouded in mystery. I hope Rothfuss ties her into the main storyline in the end, and not keep her as just a love interest who has nothing much to do with anything. Can't wait for book 3! Although it seems like Rothfuss is taking a page from GRRM's novel-writing philosophy......

[Will]

Actually, rather than a GRRM syndrome, it might be 'Don't give up the day job just yet'?

[J.Z.]

Haha I forgot. Rothfuss still teaches, doesn't he. I just hope he doesn't catch GRRM's "hey let's make this original trilogy into 7 books long instead." =/

[Will]

Can you think of any series that have been successfully extended like that?

Discworld is one.

Wheel O T didn't work for me.

Any thoughts, anyone?

[J.Z.]

Of the ones I've read, I think ASOIAF has actually been the most successful. Despite the fact that book 4 was a drag...

[Will]

*Grabs tin hat* - I found book 1 a brag....

[J.Z.]

WHAT. lol, good thing you have your tin hat.

[Charles]

Will wrote: "*Grabs tin hat* - I found book 1 a drag...."

Yep, I got maybe 25% into book 1 of ASoIaF before I gave up, simply not giving a rat's ### about any of the characters and not finding the writing spectacular enough on its own to keep me interested. Obviously, many disagree.

[Will]

See, JZ? I am not alone.

I did mange all of book 1. Afterall, I had paid for it. Now it's where it belongs, in a charity shop.

[J.Z.]

Aw, this makes me sad. ASoIaF is some of my favorite fantasy. But oh well, to each his own.

[Donna]

J.Z. wrote: "Aw, this makes me sad. ASoIaF is some of my favorite fantasy. But oh well, to each his own."

I'm with you, J.Z. I love ASoIaF. But yeah, it would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

[Will]

Absolutely.

But we might agree on Rothfuss. I've finished his second now, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[[deleted user]]

I think Martin writes better characters and political back deals than Rothfuss, but Martin has a TV series based on his books and that's kind of a yuck factor at least for me.

Despite enjoying The Name of the Wind, I doubt I'll read the other books. There was enough there to keep me going. There are other books by other authors that seem to offer a better payout for the time I invest reading them. I also gave up on Martin at book three; not because there was anything wrong with them, just picking other options.

[Will]

Actually Greg, I find the characters Rothfuss draws are better, more rounded, more believable. More human.

But I would grant that GRRM is probablky better at the politics

[J.Z.]

I agree a little with both here. For me, Martin's characters are much more complex, much more interesting. But Rothfuss's characters are much more vibrant, and that's primarily b/c the story is told (mostly) in first person, which always allows a better connection between the reader and the character. Rothfuss's cast is also a lot smaller. Martin's cast is so large it's difficult to have an intimate connection to the characters.

[Will]

I don't always agree about GRRM's characters. Many of them I feel appear complex because they are inconsistent, as though he simply made their reactions fit his narrative requirement, regardless of their previous behaviour or motivations..

[J.Z.]

For me, they're complex b/c they're hard to figure out, which is more akin to the real world anyway. For example, Kvothe is a pretty standard hero. He's mischievous but he's definitely good, and he's portrayed as such the entire way through. For Martin, the lines of good and evil are blurred. He has his standard heroes too(Ned Stark, Jon Snow etc.) but for me, the more interesting characters are the ambiguous ones (Tyrion, Jamie, Theon). They're much more real for me than the archetypal "good guys."

[[deleted user]]

I can still more or less recall the basics of Martin's characters years after reading the books, so that counts as memorable, at least to me. Kvothe was just the hero good at everything he does. Wasn't the a buddy and a girlfriend too in Rothfuss? I can't remember a thing about them other than the girl comes and goes. It I read it more recently.

[Kevin]

I know certain people would call Kvothe a Mary Sue.

[Will]

Kevin wrote: "I know certain people would call Kvothe a Mary Sue."

Don't follow that one, kevin.

[Kevin]

I think Kvothe has no people skill would so ever and has a very arrogant personality.

[Will]

Sorry, it was the 'mary Sue' term that is unfamiliar to me.

I follow you with the people skills.

[J.Z.]

Mary Sues are basically characters that lack flaws and are overall just too perfect. Most heroines in romance novels are Mary Sues, they're idealized characters (beautiful, desired, good at everything). I'm pretty sure Mary Sue only describes female, although there is a term for male Mary Sues too (I don't know what it is). But I agree, Kvothe is a bit of a male Mary Sue. In literary criticism, this is a bad thing, but commercially speaking, Mary Sue-type characters tend to be popular b/c they serve as sort of a fulfillment fantasy for the reader/writer.

[[deleted user]]

The male Mary Sue term is Larry Stu or Marty Stu, but I would disregard the gender and keep with Mary Sue.

A lot of genre fiction is filled with Mary Sues (to dome degree) and they're often popular; for example, Star Trek has James T. Kirk who sometimes gets labeled as a Mary Sue. Complex genre characters like Thomas Covenant are more of an exception.

I don't think Mary Sues are dealbreakers in genre fiction, but Kvothe still stuck out as going a littler further over the top than is common.

[Will]

Thanks guys, I've caught up now.

[Charla]

I am mixed regarding the Mary Sue comment @ Kvothe after reading the second book. The first book sold it to me quick that, to me, his fatal flaw is the fact that he TRIES to be perfect at everything. Parts of the second do the same when he constantly gets his arse handed to him multiple times. In private Kvothe is human like the rest of us but is building his reputation in response to everything thrown at him. He has little to no resources at his disposal such as wealth and family so he has to seem infallible with his reputation as a deterrent. Granted he is gifted at music and sympathy, but as mentioned before his people skills, choice in women, and lack of good sense at times have costed him a fair share of cat gut.

[Callum]

Hi guys - I'm new to the group here but I'm just going to throw in the fact that in both 'The Name of the Wind' and 'The wise man's fear' the narrative is being done by Kvothe himself. Am I the only one who finds the discrepancy between what he says he used to be like and what he appears in the few chapters during his dictation slightly at odds?

I'm very much looking forward to the final book, and a good part of that is so I can see whether he is in fact a 'too perfect' character that has somehow lost his powers, or whether he is really just a very elaborate story teller.

In any case I found the second book addressed many of my criticisms of its predecessor, and I hold to the hope that the final instalment continues this trend.

[Charles]

I'm sort of assuming that book 3 (the final book?) will have some ultimate or penultimate confrontation that scars him and makes him the person we see in the little vignettes in "the present." As to whether we end up finding that his autobiographical oral history has been colored in some way either sub-consciously or intentionally, that might be interesting to see -- if the author can pull it off.

[Adam]

Charles wrote: "...As to whether we end up finding that his autobiographical oral history has been colored in some way either sub-consciously or intentionally, that might be interesting to see"

It is hard to tell I think. Kvothe gives off the impression of being too honest of a guy, and at the same time too depressed in the 'present' time line to be intentionally deceiving the Chronicler, and in turn us (and even Bast). That is of course unless there is something going on even in the present that we aren't aware of. (well duh, of course there is a lot of stuff, but I think you know what I mean.)

Going a little meta though, the way the story is set up, with the 90% of the story obviously coming from a characters mouth, is a perfect example of a unreliable narrator. It would almost feel wrong for Rothfuss not to use that to his advantage.

[Will]

I also find the Bast character intriguing, and do look forward to learning a little more about him.

[[deleted user]]

While I love Kvothe unmasked as an unreliable narrator, I doubt that's going to be the author's direction.

[Will]

Do we vote with a happy ending, or is Kvothe going to get killed?

[J.Z.]

I feel like it might be something in between - bittersweet. The tone of the book isn't so dark as to expect a truly tragic ending, yet I don't think it's gonna be a dancing in the fields into the sunset type of ending either.

Of course, I may be wrong, in which case, I will take all of this back, haha.

[Adam]

Greg wrote: "While I love Kvothe unmasked as an unreliable narrator, I doubt that's going to be the author's direction."

Yeah - I am torn. Like I said, I think Kvothe is written too honest, but the writer in me sees the potential.

Will wrote: "Do we vote with a happy ending, or is Kvothe going to get killed? "

To me it is obvious that the 'past' story will end tragically for Kvothe. I mean look at him! Bast knows! Then either in book 3, or in some future work, Kvothe will redeem himself in 'present'. I'm a stickler for the happy ending.

[Eric]

I'm most of the way through The Wise Man's Fear, and though I do continue to look forward to reading it, I also occasionally find myself a little irritated with one aspect or another of the tale. I guess I don't typically favor 1st person POV---it seems that a broader story can be told in 3rd person (though Rothfuss does manage to get a lot in!). It's interesting that he switches from 1st person to 3rd when he comes back to the current time, though I do have a hard time relating the current-Kvothe to the past-Kvothe

[Adam]

Eric wrote: "I'm most of the way through The Wise Man's Fear, and though I do continue to look forward to reading it, I also occasionally find myself a little irritated with one aspect or another of the tale. I..."

Hey Eric. Looks like your 1 book ahead! No matter.

You know, I am normally not a fan of 1st person narratives. But I found that The Name Of The Wind and The Wise Man's Fear just flowed so smoothly that I hardly noticed.

As for the difference in current/past Kvothe - I think it is definitely done on purpose. He is supposed to seem like such a different character which hints at some big catalyst occurring in his life to take him from point A to point B. Which makes it exciting as we closer and closer to that point.