Background and Resources

[Everyman]

The discussion of Dante's Divine Comedy, to be moderated by Laurel, doesn't start until October 31 (Halloween -- what a great day to start a discussion of a journey through Hell), but in preparation this thread is open for of background, resources, discussion of translations, and other preparatory materials.

[Nemo]

There is a free audio version of Divine Comedy at librivox.org.

The Divine Comedy translated by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

And a few versions to choose from at Audible.com. There is a sample clip for each book so you can decide for yourself which one suits you best.

http://www.audible.com/search?searchA...

References and reading materials:

1.The Modern Scholar: Dante and His Divine Comedy

2. "Dante’s Divine Comedy" by the Teaching Company

[Laurel]

Great,, Nemo. Here are some other resources:

About translations http://www.nvcc.edu/home/vpoulakis/tr...

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics...

Audio samples Pinsky http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/...

Online texts with helps http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/

http://www.divinecomedy.org/divine_co...

http://www.poetryintranslation.com/PI...


Images http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp...

http://www.divinecomedy.org/divine_co...

Courses (including the ones that Nemo mentioned)

http://oyc.yale.edu/italian-language-...

http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_5?...

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/co...

GC courses that mention Dante http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/se...


Sent from my iPad

[Everyman]

The problem, I can already see, is not going to be finding resources to help with reading the text, but is going to be wading through the extreme amount of supplementary material that's available to find the must useful items that can be absorbed in the time available.

In my own case, and maybe others will feel the same way, I'm going to find it a challenge to keep focused on my own direct relationship with the text and not get overwhelmed with the views of the dozens of experts who have written so extensively about the work. I need to keep in mind that many people, particularly the original readers, have read the text without any assistance from experts and have still found it compelling and of great value. I do think that some background will be helpful, particularly in understanding the historical environment which Dante presumably expected his readers to know, and the personalities who were also well known to his readers but are unknown to any modern non-scholar.

But where and how do I make the decision to stop consulting the vast amount of material available and start relying on my own reading of and interaction with the text? Is anybody else pondering the same question?

[Thomas]

A comment on commentaries which might be helpful here:

"I have read the Commedia many times, in all of the editions I could find, and I have been distracted by the different commentaries, the varied interpretations of that multifaceted work. I have found that in the oldest editions theological commentary predominates; in the nineteenth century, historical; and currently, aesthetic, which directs us toward the accentuation of each line, on e of the great virtues of Dante...

I would advise the reader to ignore the feud between the Guelphs and Ghibellines, Scholastic philosophy, the mythological allusions, and the lines of Virgil which Dante repeats, sometimes improving them, as excellent as they are in the original Latin. It is better, at least in the beginning, merely to follow the story. I don't think anyone can keep from doing so."

--Jorge Luis Borges, "The Divine Comedy" from Seven Nights

[Nemo]

Thomas quoted Borges, "I would advise the reader to ... It is better, at least in the beginning, merely to follow the story. I don't think anyone can keep from doing so." "

If nobody can keep from doing it, what's the point of advising the same? A bit superfluous, isn't it?

"I have found that in the oldest editions theological commentary predominates; in the nineteenth century, historical; and currently, aesthetic, which directs us toward the accentuation of each line..."

Very interesting observation. It reminds me of Kierkegaard's three spheres of existence, the aesthetic, the ethical, and the religious. Apparently we're descending from the highest sphere to the lowest. What's next, I wonder...

[Laurel]

Here is my opinion: for a first time reader or one who wants to reread for pleasure, I don't think you can do any better than to find a translation that is pleasing to you and has a few simple, helpful notes. For such purposes, I would suggest the translations of Dorothy Sayers, Mark Musa, or Robert Pinsky. (Pinsky has only done Inferno, as far as I know.) Hollander is fascinating to me, but he just knows too much.

That being said, I think Borges goes a little too far to the just-read side for our group. We should not have much trouble, working together, remembering what comes from Vergil and even where it can be found. We will need more help than the original readers, though, because we are not immersed in the time and place of Dante, and knowledge of the Bible is lacking to many moderns.

I think we'll find a balance. The Comedy is a fairly short work, and it is only as difficult as one wishes to make it. At the rate of a canto a day, I think we'll have fun!

[Laurel]

I just received Mary Jo Bang's translation/paraphrase of Inferno in the mail today. It is copyrighted 2012 and thus is perhaps the newest version so far. In her notes she lists the English translations of Inferno, naming 18 in all. Her work would bring the total to 19. As we read, we might consider why so many people have found this poem worthy of putting so much labor into.

[Nemo]

Laurele wrote: "In her notes she lists the English translations of Inferno, naming 18 in all. Her work would bring the total to 19"

That brings up a question. Why do people make new translations when there are many existing ones already? I often read in the translators' notes that they believe they can do better, but that's not necessarily the case.

[Haaze]

@Nemo
From my point of view all translations are simply echoes of the originals transformed by the translator's skill and perspective. In that sense we will never have a "perfect" translation. I am fluent in Swedish and always take a step back when I read translations into English (such as Transtromer's poems). I can barely imagine how an Italian would perceive Dante's epic being stuffed into the "box" of English. I guess the point is that there always seems to be room for improvement. Besides, academics always need to get a shot at translating these classics. It is great for the resume. Ha ha!


Nemo wrote: "Laurele wrote: "In her notes she lists the English translations of Inferno, naming 18 in all. Her work would bring the total to 19"

That brings up a question. Why do people make new translations w..."

[Haaze]

@Everyman
Excellent post Everyman. I think you really marked one of the central aspects of existence today as we are completely surrounded, connected and ever so busy with the information load of the 21st century. This carries into all arenas. I was reading a bit in Harold Bloom's "Western Canon" a little while ago and your post reflected some of his thoughts as he champions (as I am sure you are well aware) a personal relationship with the canon. The only drawback I see with finding this personal connection with the Divine Comedy is that we are so disconnected from Dante's world in space and time (plus the language barrier) so I fear that I would continuously misinterpret or be blind to numerous aspects of the work. Regardless, I thought that your reflections were great and I have to agree with the mission to build the connection with this epic.


Everyman wrote: "The problem, I can already see, is not going to be finding resources to help with reading the text, but is going to be wading through the extreme amount of supplementary material that's available t..."

[Lily]

Nemo wrote: "...Why do people make new translations when there are many existing ones already?..."

Sometimes I think scholars choose to understand by wrestling with the original text. Once they have immersed themselves that far, they probably are close to creating their own translation. Some of those see the possibility of financial return by publishing what they have created?

(Nabokov, in his lectures on Russian literature (at Yale?), often includes passages of his own translation when he is unhappy with the English texts available to him.)

[Andreea]

Nemo wrote: "Laurele wrote: "In her notes she lists the English translations of Inferno, naming 18 in all. Her work would bring the total to 19"

That brings up a question. Why do people make new translations w..."
Hah, as somebody who likes to translate, I can tell you the main reason why people subject themselves to the tedious work of translating poetry is out of a profound conviction that the translations that have already been made are rubbish.

[Nemo]

Patrice wrote: "Does anyone remember the name of the woman who lives in Venice?"

Cassandra?

[Nemo]

Andreea wrote: "I can tell you the main reason why people subject themselves to the tedious work of translating poetry is out of a profound conviction that the translations that have already been made are rubbish."

Is that why they add their own rubbish to the pile for posterity? :)

[Everyman]

Lily wrote: Sometimes I think scholars choose to understand by wrestling with the original text. Once they have immersed themselves that far, they probably are close to creating their own translation. Some of those see the possibility of financial return by publishing what they have created?

(Nabokov, in his lectures on Russian literature (at Yale?), often includes passages of his own translation when he is unhappy with the English texts available to him.)

Good point. Vandiver, in her Teaching Company lectures on classical literature, also does the same thing, using her own translations in preference to published ones. Once you have studied works for many years, you tend to think that you know them better than those who came before (all of whose wisdom you have available to you), so it's a natural to think you can do better and try your own hand.

There are also folks whose primary work seems to be translation, who prefer that way of publishing to original writing. I think, for one example, of Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, who seem to be making a career of translating Russian works.

[Thomas]

Laurele wrote: "That being said, I think Borges goes a little too far to the just-read side for our group. We should not have much trouble, working together, remembering what comes from Vergil and even where it can be found. "

I think Borges is just stating the (more or less) obvious: commentaries can be a distraction. A reader, especially a first-time reader, can lose sight of the forest for the trees by concentrating on commentaries overmuch. An allusion shines light on the text for the person who immediately recognizes it, but chasing allusions in a commentary can become a distraction from the work itself. For me the problem is not the commentary, it's the distraction. If you are a reader who is not easily distracted, it may not be an issue.

James Joyce said it better, I think: "Wipe your glosses with what you know."

But for those who like commentaries, don't forget the Dartmouth Dante Project, where you can search up 75 commentaries at once.

http://dante.dartmouth.edu/search.php

[Lily]

I'm finding this to be a fun conversation on learning how to read, something I am discovering can be a life-long process, both just from what our own reading choices teach us to what we learn from colleagues and from those who make professions of doing so and/or training others.

Laurele and Eman I give credit for teaching me to enjoy and value re-reading (~2007). Bill I give credit for teaching deliberately reading slowly and re-reading selectively (not just out of necessity for understanding, except possibly Henry James!). Madge especially modeled using the Net for deepening background knowledge from a worldwide variety of sources. Laurele, loneliness, Borders coupons (making cost feasible) and a good library system brought the value of audio and listening.

I continue to learn from Nabokov's lectures on literature, both from what he wrote and from what others say about the experience of being his students. (Those lectures may one day be considered more valuable than his novels? One twist: he was known to require his students read the works that had influenced an author or that were named in the text under study -- practices I still seldom use.) John Ciardi (a Divine Comedy translator) and one specific pastor taught me the most originally about the issues and values, respectively, of multiple translations. Learning more about translating, and therefore languages, is an on-going process. Both Old Testament scholars and Jewish speakers on the Talmud have demonstrated that such discussions can go on across centuries, somewhat parallel to what can be found in generations of commentaries (many in Italian -- I often forget DC was written in Italian, not Latin) especially for certain challenging passages of DC, ala the Dartmouth site called to our attention by Thomas, Laurele and ....

Years in business and technology provided their lessons in a whole different set of skills and attitudes towards reading. Probably I have learned something from at least every regular commentator here. Then, there are all those who have suggested what to read -- part of the question Eman poses in Msg 4 as relevant even after selecting a particular focus.

[Haaze]

Everyman wrote: "There are also folks whose primary work seems to be translation, who prefer that way of publishing to original writing. I think, for one example, of Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky, who seem to be making a career of translating Russian works. ."

Which sometimes seems completely redundant. Personally I prefer Constance Garnett's translations over the newer ones. But perhaps newer translations allow the language to look more modern and more approachable/understandable? The only way to really know how butchered a translation is would be to actually learn the original language. Are we willing to do that as readers of the canon? Besides, I prefer Garnett as the prose is more Victorian in style, but I have no idea of how the Russian works come across (feels/sounds) in their originals. Will Dante's work cause the same issues in the way they "feel" in translation?

[Lily]

Haaze wrote: "...Personally I prefer Constance Garnett's translations over the newer ones...."

Haaze -- for fun sometime, read some of Nabokov's comments on other translators of Russian (Lectures on Russian Literature); I'd start with his lecture on Anna Karenina. Then keep your eye open for Wilson's critique of Nabokov's translation of N's beloved Pushkin's Eugene Onegin! Wilson's and Nabokov's friendship reportedly never recovered. (I happen to like N's finickiness about the exact meanings of words, but it does take him into obsolete English at times -- Russian was "native" to him despite all he wrote and taught in English. Also, he didn't even try to do a poetic translation, as some others have.)

Will Dante's work cause the same issues in the way they "feel" in translation?

The glib answer is "sure." (See Zeke's quotation from Dante himself in the message 25 that follows.) But, Italian to English is perhaps "easier" than Russian. As I think Laurele is reassuring us, a number of very good and comfortable translations are available.

[[deleted user]]

E-man's comment about commentaries, and the responses, resonated for me. I am a DC virgin, and wouldn't be venturing on this journey except for the company of this group.

I'm not that far into it yet (about ten cantos) but I am fascinated by the lectures I've listened to and by Mark Musa's commentary.

My confession: right now I am finding the ideas the commentary exposes and the references to Dante's techniques more interesting than the poetry itself.

So shoot me! I suspect this will change as I get further into it, and I am looking forward to the arrival of a copy of Sayres so that I have a more poetic version to contrast with Musa's straight-on blank verse.

She will lose some of the "accuracy," but she will offer the rhyme scheme of the original, which, given Dante's obsession with the Trinity seems worth getting a feel for.

It also sounds like Ciardi might be worth a look for a balance among factors.

In one of Laurele's links I came across this sobering admonition from Dante, himself:

Nothing which is harmonized by the bond of the Muses can be changed from its own to another language without having all its sweetness destroyed. (qtd. in Wechsler 51-52)

Sigh. As Everyman cautioned, it will be a challenge to keep from getting overwhelmed.

[Haaze]

Thanks Lily! I have come across Nabokov's American and Russian lectures bit have never entered their labyrinths. I will make sure to take a better look the next time I come across them. Thanks for the pointer Lily!

Lily wrote: "Haaze wrote: "...Personally I prefer Constance Garnett's translations over the newer ones...."

Haaze -- for fun sometime, read some of Nabokov's comments on other translators of Russian (Lectures ..."

[Haaze]

Hmmm - I have Dante translations by Mandelbaum, Hollander as well as Zappulla. Currently I am wavering between Hollander and Mandelbaum. Does anybody have any familiarity with these three translations? Recommendations? Thoughts?

Still, it seems as if one really cannot go wrong with any of these translations or is that just my imagination?

Laurele - thanks for the links to the comparison of translations (#3). It made me quite interested in Sayers' rhyme translation, but I fear that the rhyme will affect the literal meaning too much. It seems as if most translators have avoided Dante's original rhyme aspects and followed a more literal approach considering the restrictions of language.

Anyways, any advice and/or thoughts on translations of the DDC would be greatly appreciated and a joy to read. (I am seemingly very attracted to this dynamic dance of languages - the Hollander translation has facing pages with Italian which is mesmerizing even though I only understand it very crudely).

What are your choices for DDC? I am all ears.... (before they burn during the upcoming descent into the Inferno)

[Andreea]

Nemo wrote: "Andreea wrote: "I can tell you the main reason why people subject themselves to the tedious work of translating poetry is out of a profound conviction that the translations that have already been m..."

Ah, but nobody starts out thinking their translation will be rubbish, that fact dawns on your gradually as you work. In all seriousness, though, there are many very bad translations out there, especially of older lesser known texts. A lot of pre-WWII translations were made by people who were not bilingual and who did not have a very in-depth knowledge of what they were translating because literary studies were not that developed and there weren't as many resources to study foreign literatures as there are nowadays, so it's important to keep publishing new translations. There are a lot of theories about how the rate of translation into a language / culture correlates with cultural renewal / progress - the two examples given for this are usually the Renaissance (which was sparked by translations from classical authors) and Romanticism (which travelled back and forth between different European languages / literatures). I think it's a bit far fetched to say translation(s) were the main contributing cause to either of those movements, but I do think it's true that when a culture stops translating, especially if this is paired with near universal monolingualism, it becomes very closed off from the outside world.

But, to get back to Dante, I've been trying to find an edition of DC that has the relevant notes on the same page as the text and so far I've been unsuccessful, does anyone know of any editions like this?

[[deleted user]]

@Andreea: I sought notes on the same page also. But I couldn't find one. Now that I am into the reading, I suspect it is because the notes are so long. In one of the reviews (of Holander) it said the notes were 30 pages for each page of text!

[Nemo]

Andreea wrote: "There are a lot of theories about how the rate of translation into a language / culture correlates with cultural renewal / progress"

Interesting theory. I suppose one can also argue that the rate of immigration into a nation can also lead to cultural changes. Translations convey ideas, immigration people embodying those ideas. But in either case, the changes are not necessarily progress though. Newer is not a synonym for better, which is why we're all here reading classics. :)

[Everyman]

Hmmm - I have Dante translations by Mandelbaum, Hollander as well as Zappulla. Currently I am wavering between Hollander and Mandelbaum. Does anybody have any familiarity with these three translations? Recommendations? Thoughts?

I also have Hollander, and have read part of the translation. I would echo the comment that one lecturer on the DC made, that he knows too much for the general reader; that he buries the reader in so much commentary that the work itself is moved out of the central place in the translation. I'm not sure I totally agree, but I do get the point.

The Teaching Company lecturers, FWIW, recommend Musa as a good blend of accuracy, poetic value, and enough notes to be helpful but not overwhelming.

[Nemo]

Haaze wrote: "Hmmm - I have Dante translations by Mandelbaum, Hollander as well as Zappulla. Currently I am wavering between Hollander and Mandelbaum. Does anybody have any familiarity with these three tra..."

I chose Mandelbaum over other translators for the following reasons:

1. When I read the same passage from all the translations side by side, Mandelbaum "resonates" with me the most.
2. Mandelbaum translated both Aeneid and Divine Comedy, and received awards for both. As a devout Jew who was familiar with Christianity and Greek mythology, he had a good all-around perspective on Dante's work.
3. According to many critics, Mandelbaum's translation is a good balance between accuracy and readability.
4. I read his translation of Aeneid and liked it. Unfortunately, by the time I finished it, he had already passed away, though I bought it when he was still alive.

[Lily]

Haaze wrote: "Laurele - thanks for the links to the comparison of translations (#3)...."

Haaze, if you haven't already, also check out Laurele's message #7 again. I know Laurele has a fondness for Sayer's translation. I love her comment that Hollander "just knows too much." Given his status as former poet laureate, I would suspect Pinsky brought those skills to his translation. So, do I detect a suggestion that there is pleasure in engaging with a translator who has wrestled with the verse of the original of Dante? (I did a little further snooping on Nabokov's translation of Eugene Onegin last night. I saw evidence James Falen's translation is favored by several because it does use rhyme. The discussions do pose questions about what are verse, syntax, rhyme, meter, stanza, enjambments, and other traditionally poetic techniques -- and how do those vary among languages.)

Haaze, like you, I find an appeal in the Hollander editions. It is fun to attempt to eke out the Italian, but, for me, becomes overwhelmingly wearisome and too time consuming without enough return. Yet, I know I shall continue to do so from time-to-time. Still, trying to read from those translations may well be one of the reasons I have not yet finished all of DC (got lost somewhere in Purgatory -- grin!).

Barnes and Noble has an inexpensive edition of Longfellow's translation. For all the scholarly difficulties with Longfellow these days, I do find that very readable. The experience is rather like occasionally picking up a decent (or not so wonderful) paraphrase rather than always slugging it out with Harper's or Oxford or other good study Bible in a respected translation.

Unfortunately, my Signet editions of Ciardi have too small print for my aging eyes. But, many on this board have heard me quote Ciardi on the intelligent things he says about the art of translating -- and probably will again before we are through with our discussions of DC. If you are particularly interested in such considerations, you might check whether your library system has a copy or even, at a local bookstore still carrying him, take a peek at those sections where he makes those comments. (His Wiki entry clearly suggests the vicissitudes of critical response to his DC translation and his approaches to poetry.)

Don't forget to include some art works along with the reading -- although you may prefer to delay so that they do not interfere with your own mental visualizations. But there are too many artistic interpretations around to avoid the fun.

I see that Hollander provides summaries of each canto -- sadly only for Inferno. I am going to try to make use of those (along with re-reading the full text, of course) in this go at DC -- especially to help understand the build and structure, as well as Dante's spiritual journey.

http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/ -- See Canto Summaries entry

[Laurel]

Lily, thank you for pointing out that Hollander's outlines are available at the Princeton Project. I think they are one of his best features.

If anyone is considering Hollander and does not have a copy yet, let me now praise the Kindle edition, which of course you can read on any Kindle, on a computer, or on an iPad, smart phone, etc. (It's on nook, too, for the same price, but I have not checked that out.)

This is one of the best-formatted Kindle book I have ever read. You can pass with a click from contents to outline or translation or Italian, from outline to canto section in English or Italian, The footnote "clicks" actually work, so you can choose to read or ignore any footnote and return easily from note to text. (Not me, though: I never have the willpower to ignore a footnote, and I always say, the more the merrier. I don't know yet what circle that sends me to.)

[Lily]

Laurele wrote: "...I don't know yet what circle that sends me to...."

LOL! Maybe just reading in circles at times?

(Wasn't it the tigers in The Story of Little Black Sambo that melted into a pool of butter for chasing their tails (tales?)? I am reminded of the story by having seen the exhibition "The Century of the Child" at MOMA this week, which has a plethora of reminders of how children are influenced. It closes with a pillar inscribed with a saying to the effect: "Play is to the future as work has been to the Industrial Revolution."

http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/ex... )

[Karen]

Laurele wrote: "Lily, thank you for pointing out that Hollander's outlines are available at the Princeton Project. I think they are one of his best features.

If anyone is considering Hollander and does not have a..."

Laurele can you provide a link to this Kindle edition. I couldn't find it at Amazon. Thanks.

[Lily]

Karen wrote: "Laurele can you provide a link to this Kindle edition...."

Not Laurele, but try these, Karen:

Inferno
http://www.amazon.com/The-Inferno-ebo...

Purgatorio
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...

Paradisio
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...

You might want to check out the hard copy entries as well before ordering. It looks like one could order Inferno now and then the others without penalty?

Hope these help. (I almost wish I didn't already have hard copies, given Laurele's comments.)

[Karen]

Thanks, Lily. So there are separate editions of each of the 3 books. I was looking for a complete edition. I could get one at a time as we read along then. I have a hard copy, the old Harvard Classics edition translation by Henry Cary but Laurele's review was so good on this one I thought I might try it too.

[Haaze]

Lily wrote: "Haaze, like you, I find an appeal in the Hollander editions. It is fun to attempt to eke out the Italian, but, for me, becomes overwhelmingly wearisome and too time consuming without enough return. Yet, I know I shall continue to do so from time-to-time. Still, trying to read from those translations may well be one of the reasons I have not yet finished all of DC (got lost somewhere in Purgatory -- grin!). "

Lily! Thanks for all that information! I can see how you got lost in the Purgatory. Ha ha! Yes, the Italian pages are indeed intriguing. Wrestling with language must be one of the most delightful (although challenging) aspects of being a translator. It turns out that Mandelbaum has such a setup as well (facing pages in Italian) although the commentaries in that version is at the end of the text rather than after each canto.

Interesting that you mentioned Longfellow as there are such a myriad of older translations easily available online and in print. I am not sure if I am willing to engage in the more cryptic verses of these translations, but I probably will take a peek now and then just because I am curious.

Great suggestion in regards to the art Lily! It would be worthwhile to let one's mind wander in some of the fantastic images inspired by DC. My mind directly goes to Dore.
http://www.worldofdante.org/gallery_d...
Any other kind suggestions that I can add to my art folder for the DC read? [And thanks for those image links in #3 Laurele!!!!]

[Haaze]

Nemo wrote: "I chose Mandelbaum over other translators for the following reasons:...."

Thanks Nemo! I was reading a few passages in Canto I earlier today and feel similar. There is a good resonance in his verses that somehow creates an immediacy I am attracted to. I do not know if this was Dante's intention but it certainly allows the reader (at least myself) to get pulled into the world of the Inferno. Mandelbaum's translation seems to have such an overall low profile relative to Pinsky and Hollander. I wonder why as it really reads so well. The facing Italian pages are also wonderful although the commentaries reside way back in the book.
Mandelbaum also translated Ovid's Metamorphoses which is on my TBR list. So much to read......
Thanks for the thumbs up for Mandelbaum. It helps!

[Haaze]

Laurele wrote: "You can pass with a click from contents to outline or translation or Italian, from outline to canto section in English or Italian, The footnote "clicks" actually work, so you can choose to read or ignore any footnote and return easily from note to text. "

Laurele, that is amazing! The sophisticated Kindle versions certainly adds new dimensions to reading. I tend to use my own Kindle as a giant depository for out-of-print books and collections, but this sounds very intriguing. I was not aware of this aspect of Hollander's Kindle version. Thanks for bringing us up-to-date!

[Lily]

Karen wrote: "...So there are separate editions of each of the 3 books. I was looking for a complete edition...."

Karen -- If a complete Hollander edition exists, I don't know about it. Please let us know if you find one. I don't know that I have even seen the paperbacks (hardcovers -- are they available?) offered as a set. I would not want them in a single volume. Happy hunting!

[Lily]

Haaze wrote: "...Any other kind suggestions that I can add to my art folder for the DC read?..."

Haaze -- check out the links here:

http://dante.ilt.columbia.edu/images/...

Here are Dore, Botticelli, Dali, Evelyn Paul.

I haven't made the Princeton site totally work for me yet, but if you go through the tutorial, Hollander does explain the linkages between text and images available there. (Go to http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/ and select "Tutorial". It didn't work as well for me to try to access it from the next page.)

Although I am not overly a Salvador Dali fan, I happen to like a number of his images for Divine Comedy. A few years ago limited editions were available at fairly reasonable prices. I haven't checked recently.

Hasn't Blake done DC as well as Dore? Yes, try here:

http://www.blakearchive.org/exist/bla... (102 illustrations)

Dore is available in hardcover in an inexpensive edition often to be found among bargain books (135 illustrations). The prints aren't crisp and although the text is provided, there is no indication (that I found, at least) of the translator. I presume that means it was probably out of copyright. Still, for a few dollars, it can be pleasant to browse rather than making screen selections. Anna Amari-Parker provides three pages of notes.

[Nemo]

Haaze wrote: "it certainly allows the reader (at least myself) to get pulled into the world of the Inferno. "

Watch your step.

The facing Italian pages are also wonderful although the commentaries reside way back in the book.

I'd prefer the commentaries in the back rather than clogging up the pages. Personally I think it shows proper respect for the original work.

Mandelbaum also translated Ovid's Metamorphoses which is on my TBR list. So much to read.

We should have read Metamorphoses first, as a "prerequisite" for Dante. :)

[Nemo]

Lily wrote: "Although I am not overly a Salvador Dali fan, I happen to like a number of his images for Divine Comedy. "

Just out of curiosity, which ones do you like?

[Lily]

Haaze-- More on illustrations:

http://www.worldofdante.org/gallery_m...

Yates Thompson 36 (British Library)
Sandro Botticelli (1444-45 – 1510)
Alessandro Vellutello (b.1473, death date unknown)
John Flaxman (1775 – 1826)
Gustave Doré's (1832 – 1883)

(Unfortunately, most of these are thumbnails that do not seem to enlarge.)

This site also has two links for Inferno Cantos 5 and 33, which it claims are the most illustrated in all the books. A variety of artists appear.

Images from Bodleian Library copy of DC are also linked from this site. For details go to:
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwms...
Enlargements are possible here.
(If I understand correctly, 3rd Quarter of the 14th Century manuscript?)

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/artwork...
Selected DC drawings of Salvador Dali

Another site, also linked to Bodleian Library
Tom Phillips, artist and translator
http://www.tomphillips.co.uk/works/ar...

We will find more; also, supplement and augment these, Haaze.

[Everyman]

Before anybody shells out for the Hollander edition, note that it is available free on the Princeton site that Lily referenced above. She only noted the commentaries, but the whole work, it appears, is there, and I have the English and Italian side by side here
http://etcweb.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/d...

Click on colored buttons to get the commentary, etc. May not be quite as user friendly as the print or Kindle versions, but the price sure is right!

[Lily]

Everyman wrote: "...May not be quite as user friendly as the print or Kindle versions, but the price sure is right! ..."

Point well taken. Since I just don't read entire books well from my PC, I didn't even to think to point out the text itself. (I presume, but haven't checked, that all three books are there now.) But do know, wonderful as the commentaries are (and overwhelming?), it is the summaries for Inferno that have my eye this pass.

[Laurel]

If you have an iPad and would like to put yourself into Doré's art, you might check out this app:


iDante for iPad - The Divine Comedy by Carraro Multimedia
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/idant...





Sent from my iPad

[Haaze]

Lily wrote: "Haaze-- More on illustrations:

http://www.worldofdante.org/gallery_m...

Yates Thompson 36 (British Library)
Sandro Botticelli (1444-45 – 1510)
Alessandro Vellutello (b.1473, death date unkno..."

Thanks for all those art links Lily. Truly a cornucopia!!!! I suspect that we will see all of us link specific art to commentaries throughout the cantos. Looking forward to it!

[Athens]

Everyman wrote: "The problem, I can already see, is not going to be finding resources to help with reading the text, but is going to be wading through the extreme amount of supplementary material that's available t..."

It has been so long since reading, I shall treat this like a first visit, and read near zero external references while going along.

This approach for first reading a literary work seems come out well for me personally. I do the opposite for history books - spending 60% of the time off in references, but I tend not to re-read history titles.

Paul

[Lily]

Haaze wrote: "...I suspect that we will see all of us link specific art to commentaries throughout the cantos...."

Hope so. It should be fun to see which images seem especially evocative today and to read comments on why. There is too much to peruse alone for pleasure reading of DC, so another place where seeing others choices here would be great.

[Haaze]

I was looking over a number of translations this evening and came across a wonderful note written by the Hollanders as they introduced their translation: "It is our hope that the reader will find this translation a helpful bridge to the untranslatable magnificence of Dante's poem."
Their words provide a graceful and intriguing statement that certainly brings a sense of humility to the task of translation as well as a sense of discovery to the prospective reader. I am very much looking forward to the descent......

[Roger]

Yesterday I ran across the following passage. It is near the end of the "Preface to Shakespeare" by the great commentator and critic Samuel Johnson. I thought it might be relevant to reading Dante.

"Notes are often necessary, but they are necessary evils. Let him, that is yet unacquainted with the powers of Shakespeare, and who desires to feel the highest pleasure that the drama can give, read every play from the first scene to the last, with utter negligence of all his commentators. When his fancy is once on the wing, let it not stoop at correction or explanation. When his attention is strongly engaged, let it disdain to turn aside to the name of Theobald and of Pope. Let him read on through brightness and obscurity, through integrity and corruption; let him preserve his comprehension of the diaglogue and his interest in the fable. And when the pleasures of novelty have ceased, let him attempt exactness; and read the commentators.

"Particular passages are cleared by notes, but the general effect of the work is weakened. The mind is refrigerated by interruptions; the thoughts are diverted from the principal subject; the reader is weary, he suspects not why; and at last throws away the book, which he has too diligently studied."