YA fantasy and sci-fi

[Oni]

Nowadays, there are tons of YA in fantasy and sci-fi genre.

I find myself a bit difficult to enjoy them. I just want to hear from you all about this issue.

[Rose]

why do you find it difficult. I am close to 70 and really enjoy some of the YA books.

[Oni]

First, I haven't read them until recently. It means I have sample only a very small number of them.
From the one that I read, I don't really enjoy them for various reason (it depends on the books). So I wonder whether I can find any YA that I can enjoy, because the one that I already read demotivate me to read the others.

[Daniel]

I don't mind YA books, I mind bad YA books.

There's a tendency in the YA genre to talk down to the reader because of their age. Even as a young teenager, I was reading mostly adult stuff (and mostly SF/F) because I couldn't stand the stuff that was aimed at my age group.

But what about Harry Potter? That's clearly for kids, and the writing level is age-appropriate, but it's so well-written. I think it deserves to be called kids' literature.

Hunger Games is another great piece of YA fiction. It's well-plotted, engaging, and the characters behave in a mature fashion despite being teenagers.

I don't mind either of these. I just mind the bad ones out there who write for teens like they're dimwitted. I think a good rule of thumb of great YA fiction is whether adults can enjoy them as well.

[Stan]

Personally, I refused to categorize books this way, because doing so leads silly people to consider books like The Stranger by Camus, or Catcher in the Rye, or The Pearl, or Grapes of Wrath as high school reading. Avoid categories. Your life and your reading time will be better for it.

[Jim]

I heartily agree with both Stan & Daniel. Just because a book features teens as the main characters doesn't mean it should be classed as YA & there's no excuse for poor writing - ever. I just finished I Am Number Four & the plot holes were inexcusable. Just because a kid is reading it doesn't mean the author should leave logic in the wind.

My copy of All Quiet on the Western Front is an old library copy & has a YA sticker on it. My son loved it when he was in high school, but I liked it when I was 50. Shelving it as YA & NOT shelving it as adult fiction too is a crime. Most of the better 'YA' books are not just enjoyable, but meaningful throughout our lives. I read To Kill a Mockingbird in HS & several times as an adult. It meant a lot, but different things, each time. I identified more with Scout the first time, but with Atticus the last.

Broad categorization can help, so I mostly shelve books by fact or fiction, but even mix those at times. I learned a lot of history & developed an interest in it by reading John Jakes' Bicentennial series. Most historians seem to have a political agenda & slant their facts, so I have no trouble shelving that fictional series with 'factual' books. I can't figure out any real difference between myths, religion & philosophy, so the Christian bible is on the same shelf as Norse mythology & Kant. None have spontaneously burst into flames yet, so I suppose the PTB aren't too offended.
;-)

I think the main criteria for age level reading should be the vocabulary used & the amount of complication in the story. 'Complication' can be numbers of characters, plot threads, allusions & more, but even there, the best stories are readable by most anyone.

I read some of Ayn Rand's fiction books as a teen. Her vocabulary wasn't terrible in them, but in her 'factual' books she seems to revel in her ability to use a $10 words. I wouldn't recommend these to most adults since she forces me to the dictionary on a regular basis & I have a pretty good vocabulary. Points removed because she's purposefully obtuse, IMO.

Roger Zelazny's books & stories were eminently enjoyable for me as a teen, but a bunch of us are now studying one of his books, A Night in the Lonesome October. As simple & enjoyable as the story is on the surface, catching all his allusions keeps groups of adults arguing & researching for a month each year. I have 20 pages of notes after several such discussions, but would recommend it to anyone from 10 to 100.

[Stefan, Group Founder + Moderator (Retired)]

What Jim said, especially in his first paragraph. Too often the YA label seems to be an excuse for poor plotting and a paper-thin teenaged character.
I grew up reading SF before YA was really a concept (or at least one I wasn't aware of at the time). I read Jack Vance, Asimov, Heinlein, Zelazny, loved it all even if I didn't "get" all of it yet. Read some things that are probably closer to what you'd call YA now, like David Eddings and the original Dragonlance trilogies, and loved those too. Tried Olaf Stapledon, found it a bit hard at the time but it always stuck in my head, so I tried it again when I was older and was blown away. I truly hope no teenagers are forced to read only "age-appropriate" YA fiction, because it would be so limiting. Jorge Luis Borges once said that, as a child, he was allowed to read what he wanted and never forced to read something he didn't want to read.
The YA classification is at times a bit arbitrary - just because a teen is the main character shouldn't make it YA, and some recent books that got categorized as YA because of the main character's age have more adult content than you'd usually see in YA. Plus, like in every other genre, Sturgeon's Law applies!
If you're looking for some good, intelligent SF that got categorized as YA, check out Planesrunner by Ian McDonald. It's fun, intelligent, and I bet many adult readers would enjoy it just as much as younger ones. Here's my review.

[Oni]

Wow, I sure get more answer than I expect. Thank you ALL.

Actually the reason that I popped this question is because the book publishing issue in my own country (Indonesia). We do not have YA genre for books until recently. We have only children and adult section.

But since the boom created by Hunger Games, now we have tons of books labeled as YA being translated to my language and put into YA section, and they sell pretty well.

Unfortunately, my country is not fortunate enough to have all the classic sci-fi and fantasy translated. So most people in my country will recognize sci-fi and fantasy genre from the YA sci-fi and fantasy. They will not recognize big names such as Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov, but surely they will know Veronica Roth, Cassandra Clare, and Suzanne Collins. Even big names such as G.R.R Martin are not widely recognized, until the show get on TV.

Yes, I agree that the labeling of YA is not really helpful. I think that it serves only for the marketing purposes. And I agree also that the label serves as an excuse for poor plotting and poor characterization.

Again, thank you all for the wonderful reply.

[Jim]

YA used to be called Juvenile fiction when I was a kid. Most of the books Heinlein wrote in the 50's were Scribner juveniles. Some of my favorite books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinlein...

[Random]

I don't remember a YA classification when I was that age, at least not in the libraries and bookstores I frequented. Same goes for Juvenile. The SF and Fantasy many consider to be YA now days was just lumped in with the rest of the adult books in the genres.

I appreciate that now as an adult since I was exposed to a lot of good books, most of which would have been considered beyond my age. But they made me work, and they made me think. Even if books like Dune and A Stranger in a Strange Land were a little over my head at the age of 10 or so, they fueled my appetite and helped open the door to a universe of ideas.

Personally, I am torn on most YA books. Some are very well done while others just tend to be an excuse for flimsy plots and flat characters. While I would have loved Harry Potter as a kid, I tend to grind my teeth over its stupid adult syndrome now.

I also agree with what Stefan says that the whole YA label is a bit arbitrary. It seems more a marketing ploy than anything else as the label seems to get slapped on anything with a POV character under the age of 20. Its not about content, but about character age.