What do you think is the most cliche fantasy plot point?

[L.Y.]

There are a lot of things that are used in numerous fantasy stories - an example being 'he/she has an evil twin' - that are used to great effect by some authors. But they've been used so much that some of them bug me. Does anyone else have this problem? And if so, which bits drive you bonkers?

[Lisa]

Clueless chosen ones do not beat ancient evils. If he requires a secret brotherhood and any number of magic items some one else has to tell him how to use to fulfill the prophecy, re-choose, or give me another reason to read that story.

[Heidi]

I think almost all of them boil down to Good Vs. Evil, and we know how they have to end. Despite that being a pet peeve, I still love fantasy! It would be interesting, just once to have evil win. I don't mean just a battle, but to actually win the war. Not sure it would be a popular ending though. It is sort of like writing a ro com in which the main character ends up divorced from the "love of his/ her life." at the end. Oh well.

[L.Y.]

I know what you mean, Lisa. If they're going to be a hero, they should at least deserve the title, yes?

Heidi, I think you've handed me my next project idea, lol. That sounds like a real challenge to write!

[Mary X]

I'm fairly new to fantasy but "orphan with special gifts overcoming many adversities to save the world" seems super common to me.

[Heidi]

L.Y., I've played with the idea myself, from time to time. I guess it is sort of along the lines of Wicked. You'd have to paint the villain in such a way that they weren't really evil, it is just the "good guy's" perception is wrong. Slippery slope.

[Lo]

I think the "you must be mistaken I'm a normal kid" plot where the kid is super magical is

[Razmatus]

Heidi wrote: "I think almost all of them boil down to Good Vs. Evil, and we know how they have to end. Despite that being a pet peeve, I still love fantasy! It would be interesting, just once to have evil win. I..."

I think Erikson found the edge of the coin here - yes, the "good ones" kinda win, but knowing what we know about them, we cant really be sure if they didnt have some side intentions in mind... we know though that peoples of the world are going to repeat their mistakes no matter what and that someone's gotta save their asses again... the "good guys" win cos the "evil guys" simply draw too much power to themselves, which usually weakens or diverts them for a time etc....

so yea the good guys win somehow, but it is never without a cost, and the evil always returns, the history repeats itself despite countless past lessons :)))


but yea a very used but despite all one of my fav cliches is the secret ultraspecial weapon thing... where the guy overcomes everything, then gets the weapon and the evil guy is like oh my unholiness not possible, then the good guy has an epic fight, gets to his/her knees like 100x and from their last drop of strength they make an ultrasavage-universe-saving-ass-kicking blow that cuts the evil guy to pieces and everyone lived happily ever after :D

[L.Y.]

Mary and Lo: I know, right? The first couple times it's interesting, I think, but when it's used over and over...I think everyone likes to hear about an underdog succeeding, lol.

Heidi: I dunno. You got my brain working, that's for sure! I just looked at your page. Another author! Sweet. :)

Razmatus: Lol to the ultraspecial weapon! That would be one of my choices, too. Especially the bit about falling to the knees one hundred times.

[Razmatus]

you all must remember Rocky movies... when he got the sh*t beaten out of him, and then made one big surge and won, hehe :D

see Erikson twists that one as well - any special weapon seems to have a catch to it and a high probability of losing one's life cos so many powers want it lol

[Chris]

I usually close the book and don't bother with it anymore if it begins with the cliche of "poor, farm-boy who hasn't experienced the wider world suddenly finds himself the sole hope of the entire world against a great, ancient evil. Usually poor farm-boy is informed of this news by an elderly family friend or mentor who acts as spiritual and moral guide and ends up getting killed halfway through the first book."

I also HATE any fantasy series that has female characters exist solely for sexual purposes or act the part of poor dumb damsel in distress....usually Ed Greenwood is the biggest guilty party of this

[L.Y.]

Lol. Who hasn't heard that one?

[Troy]

Interesting thread. As an aspiring author, I love reading these, as they are great reminders when I am writing.

Even as a kid I didn't always enjoy the "happily ever after." It just never seemed realistic. My writing now reflects that. Nothing wrong with some bad mixed in with the good, I say!

My new novel, The Elementals, reflects this, and it is a planned trilogy. The ending will be a doozy! :)

[~*Trema*~]

I think mine would be the (Girl)- poor me, I'm so different/ hurt/ruined no one would ever love me...then, of course the hero falls magically, unconditionally in love with her, blah blah, and happily ever after.

[[deleted user]]

characters being all evil or all good.In real life there are many dimensions to personality.I guess a simpler term:mary sue/anti-sue characters.

[L.Y.]

Troy, I'm an aspiring author too - which was why I was curious, lol.

Trema, I bet you hated Twilight! That sounds exactly like it.

Allison: I know. Some people just don't make realistic characters. Who really wants to read about the 'perfect' person who never makes mistakes? (Sincerely hoping MY characters aren't like that now...lol.)

[[deleted user]]

L.Y. wrote:
Allison: I know. Some people just don't make realistic charact..."

Try reading your story as if you didn't write it, or find an honest friend.

[Claude]

I'm getting a bit fed up with perfect MC too. Even if the hero will save the day, it doesn't mean he can't be temperamental, selfish, or a bit snub. And the independant-strong-sarcastic FMC is getting a bit overused too.

[Heidi]

A movement I have been seeing is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where you are asking yourself "Why is this guy the hero? He's kind of a jerk!" I really don't care for those. I mean, sometimes the character evolves and becomes the hero, but most of the time he is a jerk at the end and only won because "the prophesy" said so. I feel like I wasted my time.

[L.Y.]

Sarcastic is pretty over-used, I agree. But a jerk as the hero? I haven't seen that one yet. Do you have any examples, Heidi? I'm kind of curious about this, lol. How do you cheer on a jerk...?

[~*Trema*~]

LOL, i purposely never read Twilight. I "tried" to watch the first movie 3 times and just could not make myself finish it.
L.Y. wrote: "Troy, I'm an aspiring author too - which was why I was curious, lol.

Trema, I bet you hated Twilight! That sounds exactly like it.

Allison: I know. Some people just don't make realistic charact..."

[Heidi]

Well, there have been several, but the only one I still own is The Wanderer's Tale trilogy by David Bilsborough. (I bought all three books in a dollar bin.) The others I have gotten in e-book form and deleted. It is amazing how easy it is to throw away a file, but to throw away an actual book gives me pain and makes me feel guilty X/

[Heidi]

I personally like a sarcastic female character, but she needs to be more than sarcasm. So many of them are so stereotypical just a sarcastic twit. I just finished reading the first book in a really great Epic Fantasy with a strong female lead who is a bit snarky, but balances the snark out with a full and dynamic woman who you feel for and love. It is Angels & Warriors: The Awakening by Dawn Tevy. Loved it!

[L.Y.]

Oh, Trema, the first one is pretty awful! The only one I've seen so far where the acting is any good is the first part of number four, lol.

Heidi: I agree. My best friend is super-sarcastic, but she also has good qualities in addition to that. I've found I enjoy a sarcastic yet ditzy character, too, lol. I'm a little wary of Angels & Warriors, I have to admit. I read the blurb, and 'chosen one' is sticking out at me like a road sign. I might take a look at the first two chapters, anyway, though. Thanks for the recommendation! :)

[Andrew]

Dark lords. I get very bored with dark lord characters. You see all this "I will cover the land with darkness" nonsense and I always want a character to say: "Yeah? And then what?"

[L.Y.]

Andrew wrote: "Dark lords. I get very bored with dark lord characters. You see all this "I will cover the land with darkness" nonsense and I always want a character to say: "Yeah? And then what?""

Lol! That's hilarious! I should totally use that in my writing. The expression on the villain's face would priceless.

[Heidi]

L.Y. Yeah, "Chosen One" is pretty iconic. The issue I think for most of us with this list of "too cliche" complaints is that there have been so many stories that used them and just didn't do it right. I mean, folks let's look at our list. I think every fantasy out there fits into one of these categories, if not more. Yet, I LOVE fantasy! I assume you all responded to the questionnaire because you do too. So how can we be sick of all this? Because if the story is done right, then it doesn't feel cliche! One of my favorite fantasy books of all time is The Eye of the Hunter And yet, people lambast it all the time for being a rip off of Tolkien. I read this before I read Tolkien, so I didn't realize that until I was much older. There are "chosen ones" and an evil monster "spreading darkness." Epic battle scenes, and a quest. All things that we say are cliche. Yet, I connected so deeply with the characters (despite the fact that non of them are human!) that I read it again and again and again. It is all about how the story is told. There is no such thing as a new story, not really. All are based on cliches. HOW you use the cliche determines how good your book is. And that is my waxing philosophical. Off to get things done ;)

[LaTrica]

To add to what's already been mentioned, my peeve is the ancient, all knowing, eternal, beautiful, perfect elves who guide our heros. I don't mind them in any particular story but for the majority of authors to use the same elves... They all seem to come from the same place.

[L.Y.]

Too true! How it's used and how good your marketing is, lol.

LaTrica - Yup. I love elves like that, but people have more creativity than to do exactly the same thing over and over. Like Heidi was saying, how your cliche is done is important, and if they're just copying...well. That's annoying.

[Justin]

I would say the whole good guy not necessarily fighting against evil but being in a Mythical Kingdom and fighting against foes or polar opposites to the protagonist. Rescuing the damsel in distress or the ole twist where despite how big it may be the good guy gets over it and wins in the end

[Magda]

what usually annoys me is the characters that somehow 'know' how to use certain power (let's say some magic skill) even though he/she never ever learned to do so, and others have to train for years.
and yes, I might imagine that someone has this weird instinct, but still, how can you play a guitar if noone ever told you what music is?

[Justin]

Magda wrote: "what usually annoys me is the characters that somehow 'know' how to use certain power (let's say some magic skill) even though he/she never ever learned to do so, and others have to train for years..."

Yes! It's not that they may somehow know it's a lot of the times the author not telling us how they know. Like okay they have magical powers but how? Were they born with them? Was their an accident? Did they get them as a gift? Just flat out hey the hero has magic is just so plain and annoying.

Or how the antagonist knows the weakness of the protagonist yet they can never get them in the end? You'd think if you knew the weakness it would help you but nope..

[Nicky]

Angsty heroes. You know who I'm talking about... The "Oh no, I can't handle all this responsibility that comes with all this power. I did not choose to be this way, can't I run away to some remote area, preferably on a mountain and have a quiet uneventful life?" and "People keep dying because of me so I must shut everyone out and become a bitter and cold mule in all my inter-human relations" - type of characters. I'm looking at you Rand al Bore! His angst got so bad it completely put me off the series by book 4 and cannot remember what happened in the first three, to save my life...That's how much I did not care!

Make it dark. Make it grim. Make it tough. But then, for the love of God, tell a joke! - Joss Whedon, as per usual, has a point!

[Michele]

MCs who stop in the middle of their epic, save the world quest to help some nobodies dig a well or chop some wood, or end some minor dispute, just so we know how good they are and not stuck-up. Because the end of the world can just wait another day or two.

Also when someone tells the MC, "Don't... go in there/open the box/talk to strangers..." without any explanation why, so of course you know they are gonna do it and then badness happens.

Third, side characters with vital info but can't get the MC to stop and listen.