Is the Harry Potter/Twilight debate really so one-sided?

[[deleted user]]

Personally, I prefer Harry Potter over Twilight, but I really don't think this debate is as one-sided as anti-Twilighters and HP fans paint it to be. I warn you ahead of time that this post may be slightly biased. I also warn you that this post is long. A lot of Goodreads members either have 1) very little patience, which I'm okay with as long as they don't use it as an argument as to why a post is not well thought out, or 2) enjoy making rude comments on the length of a post, which in my opinion is stupid, pointless, and does nothing to strengthen your argument. Wordiness is my style. It may not be yours. Either way, don't scold me for making a long post, because I. Won't. Frickin. Care.

So, on to my post. There are five things I look for when reading a book, and with which I will use to judge both series: plot, characters, pacing, writing, entertainment value/thematic development. I still think Harry Potter wins, but I definitely do not think that Twilight is complete crap like most antis seem to think it is. And it's just my opinion, if you like Twilight better I'm totally fine with that.

1. Plot--I think even Twilighters can agree that the HP plot is so much better developed and complex, providing spectacular adventures, intricate subplots, and little plot elements that weave together so neatly from book one through seven. This one, in my opinion, is no contest. Both suffer from plot holes, but HP has far less than Twilight. At the same time, Twilight is a form of escapism, so I can excuse the plot holes. You enjoy escapist fiction by shutting down your brain and suspending disbelief. Upper hand: HP.

2. Characters--now we can get into a little more depth. Yes, Bella IS a Mary Sue at the beginning of the series, but I think Harry was also a bit 2-D in the beginning of the series as well. As both series progress, both of them grow (yes, even Bella). Maybe Bella doesn't grow as much, maybe most of us antis think she's an annoying twat who couldn't stop whining to save her life, but I will say right now that I can relate to Bella a lot more than I usually admit. I can relate to having my immature moments when I think the world revolves around me. I can relate to internally whining my head off and going completely melodramatic about virtually nothing at all. While I dislike Bella, you have to remember that she is a character designed for the target audience to relate to, to put themselves in her mold and experience the story.

Yes, Bella jumps off a cliff and pulls some very stupid suicide stunts, as well as being a generally bad role model for girls, but she DOES do things of value. She's constantly surrounded by people who want to suck out her soul, and she holds her ground (albeit having lots of crying and sobbing and Edward-rescuing added in, but hey, she's a teenager, what's she supposed to do?). She goes to the Volturi to save Edward (yeah, by dumping Jacob when she could have used a cell phone, but remember that this is escapist fiction). She has little to no personality, but once again, this is escapist fiction, fiction you enjoy by suspending disbelief.

Unfortunately for Twilight, Meyer has many potentially interesting and complex characters that are glossed over in favor of rambling on how ~*true*~ and Speshul Bella and Edward's love is, while Rowling recognizes the fact that every person is the hero of their own story and fleshes each of her characters as much as possible without distracting the reader from the story. Even minor characters like Neville Longbottom, Molly Weasley, and Snape are given incredible character development. She gives a reason as to why Voldemort is evil, garnering at least some sympathy from the reader for the villain. Rowling also has at least some skill with using contrasting foils to maximum effect, while Meyer has no earthly clue how to use them. Therefore, in my opinion for characters, HP has the upper hand.

3. Writing--Meyer's writing for book 1 was awful. So awful. She told instead of showed, over described everything, overuse of adjectives and adverbs,etc. And as much as I hate to admit, Rowling's writing suffered from some of the same problems. Both writers improve their writing with each book they publish, but in this case I have to hand it to Meyer for writing.

Why? Rowling DOES improve her writing, but not as significantly as Meyer. Now, let's just ignore Meyer's annoying need to beat the reader over the head with Edward's hotness and that stupid line of Aro chuckling three times (which is a very famous example of bad writing from Meyer). If you look past that Meyer's writing is actually quite graceful after the first book. This woman has a way with words. I, in fact, wish I could write as fluidly and beautifully as Meyer does (when, again, she isn't describing Edward's godlike perfection for the bazillionth time).

Rowling? While I love Rowling's sense of humor and general style, she still has a huge problem with "show, don't tell." She tells instead of shows a lot. (So does Meyer, but she improves on this after the first book, for which reason I consider this excusable for Meyer.) A LOT. She does not improve on this throughout the entire series. While Rowling is much better than Meyer at manipulating point of view and narration, her problem with telling instead of showing really takes away a lot of the power Rowling's writing might have had otherwise. And Meyer's lack of skill with manipulation of POV and narration DOES improve, and while it's not perfect it's also excusable because again, this is escapist fiction. Upper hand: Twilight.

4. Pacing--Both writers suck at pacing. Really badly. They're on opposite sides of the spectrum; Rowling's writing is far too rushed, and Meyer drags it out far too long. This might have to do with the fact the most of the conflict in Twilight is internal. While this makes for a boring story, and for which I knocked off points for the "plot" area, you do have to remember that many conflicts in the real world are internal. (I knocked off points because the execution of Bella's internal conflict was pretty bad.) But again, as both series progresses, Meyer improves her skill much more than Rowling. Rowling also improves, but many times her writing can be choppy, jarring, or rushed, while Meyer steadily and naturally guides her writing with a much more sure hand. Yeah, it's slow, but the pace DOES pick up as the series goes on, and again, the conflict is more internal than external. Make no mistake, i found it boring and dry and dull, but I do understand that many Twilight fans enjoyed going along with Bella's journey to self-realization. Upper hand: Twilight.

5. Entertainment value/Thematic development--I'll take out the entertainment value part of it, since it's a lot more of personal preference. I found Harry Potter enjoyable and Twilight dull, but I know there are people out there who either found both enjoyable, or found Twilight enjoyable and Harry Potter dull. So I'll leave that alone.

Now, thematic development. What is thematic development? For me, it is moral ambiguity, as it probably is for a lot of people. For an author to be successful at this, he/she has to constantly put different perspectives into different lights, all without sounding wishy washy or unsure of what he/she thinks. I noticed that both series share a common weakness in their thematic development: neither of them are very subtle about it. Rowling practically bashes the reader over the head with Dumbledore's looooong speeches about the "power of love," etc. etc., and Meyer slaps the reader in the face with constant repetitions of how Speshul Bella and Edward's Twoo Wuv is, making other people comment on it, making Bella pointing it out so persistently it's impossible not to feel like it's being shoved down our throats. This is not how you do your thematic development. Especially since the way both of them do it is very generic and cliche. Rowling, we've seen the power of love a bazillion times before. Meyer, we've seen the Twoo Wuv conquers all also a bazillion times before. On the subtlety level, both are equally bad.

I notice that many HP fans point out how HP teaches love and friendship, citing Molly Weasley and her children's heartwarming welcome of Harry into their family. But they also ignore the fact that there is love in the Cullen family as well. They welcome Bella very warmly as well (while this makes Bella and Edward less of star-crossed lovers, remember, once again, that this is escapism), with the exception of Rosalie, who later befriends her. Both families are different in some way: the Cullens operating by a different moral code than other vampires, the Weasleys are purebloods who are not prejudiced against Muggle-borns and half-bloods.

That being said, Rowling still takes the prize for thematic development. Twilight's moral ambiguity is undeniably pretty black-and-white. And I simply cannot dismiss its blatant abusive relationships and antifeminism, both of which I found thoroughly insulting to my intelligence, my personality in general, and my status as a girl. One could say that Bella and Edward's relationship is not perfect and they strive to improve it. But the main problem? It isn't portrayed that way. It is not portrayed as a girl and vampire overcoming an abusive relationship. It is portrayed as idealistic. Hermione and Ron, on the other hand, also have arguments and conflicts, BUT IT IS PORTRAYED THAT WAY. So, no, Twilight doesn't get any points for that.

In addition, Harry Potter also has several side characters to balance out the morality. The most famous example is probably Snape. There is also Neville Longbottom, which is an advantage because in Twilight, all the good guys are portrayed as awesome, beautiful and perfect, and all the bad guys are portrayed as ugly, stupid and imperfect. Neville is a very plain guy with low self-esteem, but eventually becomes a hero in his own way. Hence my comment that Rowling recognizes that every person is the hero of their own story, while Meyer does not. Sirius Black, who has arrogance and recklessness--all bad traits, but he is still on the side of the good. Even Voldemort has some complexity: his evilness is explained, rather than him simply being Evuuuuul for no reason except to give the story an antagonist. So, while Twilight does have some redeeming qualities in its thematic development, the upper hand belongs to Harry Potter.

As you can see, I DO think that Harry Potter is better, but Twilight does have its advantages over HP. I don't think this debate is nearly as black-and-white and one-sided as so many anti-Twilighters paint it to be. I don't think Twilight deserves the flak it's gotten. In my post, it actually came quite close, Twilight having two out of five, HP getting three out of five. I honestly believe that no book out there is complete crap, which might seem hypocritical of me since in my reviews, the Twilight books are under the books-that-should-be-burned shelf. But that's just my opinion. I do understand the appeal of both books, and I respect anyone else's opinion as long as they don't try to smash mine into the dust.

I would like to request the following: please do not complain about how stupid anti-Twilighters are, or how stupid Twilight fans are. Please do not rant, and please, if you have felt like Twilight has gotten too much flak, do not spout a bunch of complaints about how FINALLY someone realized that Twilight is, in fact, not complete rubbish. Please respect people's opinions, and please do not say that other people's reasons for hating or liking something is moronic.

That being said, I'd love to hear what you guys think.

[Castor]

I really like both books, I started to read each series out of curiosity, and finish them with joy, like you said both books have there pros and cons, but the part that I least like of twilight was that bella, in some point really wanted to have sex with edward, I still couldn't comprehend why, but beside that, both book series sit proudly on my shelf

[[deleted user]]

Awesome, awesome, AWESOME post. Nothing is ever really all black and white...More like gray and gray.

[Avani]

This was a great analysis, and I agree with Brooke-- a lot of comparison I've seen has been something like "Harry Potter rules, Twilight drools!" with no further backing explanation. I enjoyed your thoughts on the gray areas and it's nice to see some thought process before arriving at a conclusion. Nicely done.

[Carina]

Excellent post - I would disagree with a couple of points personally but it is so nice to see a well thought out argument. Especially to see HP faults put across in such a mature manner as opposed to being hurled in an attempt to make Twilight look better.

[[deleted user]]

Great post.

I like both series. I think the whole comparison of Harry Potter, Twilight (and sometime Hunger Games, too) is often ridiculous, so I really enjoyed reading your post.
Personally, I like HP more than TW. I can read HP all day, but for TW I need to be in a very romantic mood.

[Wendy]

I appreciated reading your thoughts as well. It's nice to see someone taking a levelheaded approach to topic that seems to set people off, for once. I agreed with a lot of what you said, although personal preference leads me to disagree with some....

However, Twilight's depiction of abusive relationships in a positive light outweighs everything else for me. Meyer could be the best writer who ever lived, and I would not be able to forgive her for that part. These books are so widely read and by such young, impressionable girls that I find it extremely disturbing. For that and that alone I can never, ever condone the Twilight series.